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will there ever be a new hardware sampler again
Old 5th July 2009
  #1
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will there ever be a new hardware sampler again

Hi,

because I have a computer job I really dont wanna see much of these things when I home I dont use any PC/MAC for making drones and stuff.
I am comparing and looking into hardware samplers but im always annoyed that there are now modern storage options like SDCArd/USB-Storage Support, SATA HArddisks and so on.
I understand that the last build Hardware sampler was build some 8-9 years ago.
Are there any rumors or annoucements about new machines?
I know there are MPC and SP and lindrumm2, but these all are very beat centric and Im more interested in stuff like the vp-9000 has.

IS there so little need for real hardware samplers?


cheers
Old 5th July 2009
  #2
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NWSooner's Avatar
 

Hmm. I'm a little confused. You mention the Roland VP-9000, but even just looking at Roland I would consider the Fantom-G and the V-Synth GT/XT to be hardware samplers and they're currently shipping units. What's your definition of a hardware sampler? The XT is a rackmount unit like the VP-9000.
Old 5th July 2009
  #3
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shadowfac's Avatar
 

Maybe the OP is thinking about a dedicated hardware sampler, like an Emu E4XT or Akai S6000.

Hardware sampling has been mostly integrated into workstations, like Motifs, Fantoms, and Korg M3, and beatboxes like the MPCs, Korg ESX, and Roland MC808/SP404/SP555.

What I don't get is why can't manufacturers update their sampling specs to current technology standards. I mean, 128 Mb of RAM? That's what my PC had 10 years ago. Imagine a HW sampler could have at least 1 Gig of RAM, a 250 Gb harddisk, DVD-ROM, and compatibility with the most popular and recent formats (Akai, Emu, Soundfont, sfz, Kontakt, etc.), all embedded with the M3 or Motif's synthesis architecture.
Old 5th July 2009
  #4
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Yoozer's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by ontherun View Post
I understand that the last build Hardware sampler was build some 8-9 years ago
Yes. But, you can retrofit these with a flash drive if you want to. ZIP drives and SCSI CD-roms just aren't fun to work with at all.

Quote:
and Im more interested in stuff like the vp-9000 has.
Then get a V-Synth.

Quote:
IS there so little need for real hardware samplers?
Yes.

MPCs have simple samplers and emphasize the interface - the rubber pads and the dead simple sequencer. For the heavier duties the Akai S5K/6K and Z4/Z8 were used for - well, eventually those didn't do anything more than load up huge orchestral libraries.

Even then, you could see those things as dedicated computers - with older hardware and a smaller screen.

There are perfectly good reasons to go for hardware samplers:
- converter quality
- gritty character, artifacts
- the (analog) filters
- interface (applies mostly to the MPC. Being bent over a rack to stare at a small screen isn't inspiring or fun).

For the rest, software will do the job just fine. If you've got a machine with filters without much character that does 44/16, it'd better be really special to not be replaced.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shadowfac View Post
What I don't get is why can't manufacturers update their sampling specs to current technology standards. I mean, 128 Mb of RAM? That's why my PC had 10 years ago. Imagine a HW sampler could have at least 1 Gig of RAM, a 250 Gb harddisk, DVD-ROM, and compatibility with the most popular and recent formats (Akai, Emu, Soundfont, sfz, Kontakt, etc.), all embedded with the M3 or Motif's synthesis architecture.
And the worst part of this would be that it would still be outdated and still not properly integrated with the rest of the setup. 1 GB isn't enough either - that's what my PC had, 6 years ago.
Old 5th July 2009
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NWSooner View Post
Hmm. I'm a little confused. You mention the Roland VP-9000, but even just looking at Roland I would consider the Fantom-G and the V-Synth GT/XT to be hardware samplers and they're currently shipping units. What's your definition of a hardware sampler? The XT is a rackmount unit like the VP-9000.
I already have a VA Synth, so just paying 2k for the sampling option sounds crazy, and the manual says it only has some 50MB fpr samples.

Quote:
What I don't get is why can't manufacturers update their sampling specs to current technology standards. I mean, 128 Mb of RAM? That's why my PC had 10 years ago. Imagine a HW sampler could have at least 1 Gig of RAM, a 250 Gb harddisk, DVD-ROM, and compatibility with the most popular and recent formats (Akai, Emu, Soundfont, sfz, Kontakt, etc.), all embedded with the M3 or Motif's synthesis architecture..
exactly what i was thinking.

I really love the mpc and maybe get one again, if the LD2 wont show up. But there could be some more function to torture my samples.
Thats were Yoozer is right, the interface and table top design is better suited for editing, maybe something new has to show up or a V-Sampler from Roland. Maybe the beat thank will be nice.
Old 5th July 2009
  #6
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
ontherun
because I have a computer job I really dont wanna see much of these things when I home I dont use any PC/MAC for making drones and stuff.
I am comparing and looking into hardware samplers but im always annoyed that there are now modern storage options like SDCArd/USB-Storage Support, SATA HArddisks and so on.
I understand that the last build Hardware sampler was build some 8-9 years ago.
Are there any rumors or annoucements about new machines?
I know there are MPC and SP and lindrumm2, but these all are very beat centric and Im more interested in stuff like the vp-9000 has.

IS there so little need for real hardware samplers?


cheers
Akai DS1000. Who knows if when it will drop?

Quote:
Originally Posted by shadowfac View Post
What I don't get is why can't manufacturers update their sampling specs to current technology standards. I mean, 128 Mb of RAM? That's what my PC had 10 years ago. Imagine a HW sampler could have at least 1 Gig of RAM, a 250 Gb harddisk, DVD-ROM, and compatibility with the most popular and recent formats (Akai, Emu, Soundfont, sfz, Kontakt, etc.), all embedded with the M3 or Motif's synthesis architecture.
I can imagine a sampler like that... a computer! Ha. There is frankly no point in doing what another machine is far superior at doing... A computer has a gigantic screen, it fulfills all of the necessary functions of sampling and in a far superior way than a sampler ever has. If they built a sampler with the specs you mention, it would just be a computer... but built to look like a sampler. Why do that when a computer was already good at being a computer in the first place! That's why all of these companies are making controllers.

So you are looking for something that is a hardware sampler but with the specs of a computer:

Neko. This is the DEFINITION of the modern sampler.

In the meanwhile, I use 4 hardware samplers. I use the Emax because it has SSM filters and because of it's sound... 12-bit. Same with my Mirage, CEM filter... 8-bit. My MPC-60 is 12-bit too. All of these machines have character that... maybe you can emulate on a computer... I just like that the machines impart sonic characteristics onto your samples. You don't have a choice... this is THE SOUND of the machine. Perhaps you can dial in the sound on a computer, but frankly those kinds of decisions... I don't think people think about it the same... the workflow on a computer is different... I know that EVERY time I sample into my Mirage it sounds different and always a bit off.

I guess what I mean is... that for a hardware sampler to be useful in this day and age... REALLY it would have to have some kind of quality about it... but we are far past the days of SCSI... and it just isn't a viable product anymore. Believe that if Akai started making this DS sampler that it won't really make much an impact. BUT if akai started doing a re-run of the S-950... or the MPC-3000... oh yeah... ****... people would eat it up!
Old 5th July 2009
  #7
I could see the need for large amounts of ram if you were sampling at say 88.2 and 96K or higher. Larger storage for those larger samplers. Even the E4 line, with 128mb ram maxxed out you could store a good set of sounds if you manage the memory to it's fullest for most music.

It would be cool to see that type of hardware, but I think the sampler as a stand alone is past it's time for the general public. The only way you will see those specs is if it's necessary for a workstation to have it included as such.

Kaz
Old 5th July 2009
  #8
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asynchro_nous's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ontherun View Post
Maybe the beat thank will be nice.
In what way?

It really is hard to tell what the OP is looking for, exactly.
Old 5th July 2009
  #9
So far only hype.
The Beat Thang | Beat kangz Electronics



Over all and general your after a PC's power and flexibility in a rack box or musical instrument type case dedicated to sampling. I'll let you fill out the rest...

If you look at some of Rolands samplers they were that of there time, based off the MAC type CPU of the time of mfg.
Old 5th July 2009
  #10
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kreeper_6's Avatar
 

It goes back to the hardware synth vs soft synth. I just prefer knobs and a HANDS on approach. Having to use a mouse kills creativity, It's like chopping an arm off. I wish there was a competitor to the MPC something more sample worthy with keys (I don't need a workstation). IMO using a computer to sample is like using a shotgun to kill an ant. Yamaha needs to bring out a successor to the RS7000 Pronto.
Old 6th July 2009
  #11
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spunkadellic's Avatar
 

maybe the LINNDRUM 2 will offer something great.....whenever it will come out
Old 6th July 2009
  #12
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Well I mean the ideal situation would be a something old something new scenario.

Something that could sample at different bit-rates and sample-rates. Something with analog filters again. It would be dope to see a sampler that were knob laden. I read somebody mentioning that notion.

I mean. SOMEBODY OUT THERE MADE A ****ING DX-7 PROGRAMMER!


If they can make a DX7 Programmer, they can make a sampler programmer or at least one with a FEW knobs and whatnot to fiddle about with....

I mean, they could be assignable... whatever. THAT would make it something worth buying.

But then I have my Kenton Control Freak and I can control the filters on my Emax so it wouldn't be that difficult to do... if they were able to add sysx to a sampler back in the 80's.

IDK I think we should just be stoked that an Akai S-1000 can be had for less than a Hundred bucks...
Old 6th July 2009
  #13
Quote:
Originally Posted by peglegjoe857 View Post
Well I mean the ideal situation would be a something old something new scenario. IDK I think we should just be stoked that an Akai S-1000 can be had for less than a Hundred bucks...
That is amazing...

I have a butt load of samplers, use them on everything I make. I can not deny that a computer makes it so much easier to manage samples. I can say that a computer playing back samples is stale and lifeless. The closest thing I've found that works for me is the S5000/6k, Z4/8, MPC4k and akaisys.


Seen the 8 bit "where's the Party at"
Where's the Party At: Nerdy Embedded Systems Design Wizardry

There is people poking at making DIY samplers, that in itself will lead to better projects.


My comments were at the open labs equipment. Toss out all the other added software crap and use the sample software and you have exactly what your after, minus the good sound.
Old 6th July 2009
  #14
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kazper View Post
That is amazing...

I have a butt load of samplers, use them on everything I make. I can not deny that a computer makes it so much easier to manage samples. I can say that a computer playing back samples is stale and lifeless. The closest thing I've found that works for me is the S5000/6k, Z4/8, MPC4k and akaisys.


Seen the 8 bit "where's the Party at"
Where's the Party At: Nerdy Embedded Systems Design Wizardry

There is people poking at making DIY samplers, that in itself will lead to better projects.


My comments were at the open labs equipment. Toss out all the other added software crap and use the sample software and you have exactly what your after, minus the good sound.

Damn that WTPA sampler looks sick! I am now thinking about getting one...

but i already have a mirage... and might not be able to get much use out of it... but it looks so fun to build....
Old 6th July 2009
  #15
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Jim Stout's Avatar
On thing I just started doing was running Morgana on the (open labs) Neko LX5
Morgana Link------112dB

It's still kind of new to me but it's yielding some interesting results.

It's like having the Ensoniq Mirage with 4 gig of RAM

I really wish there was an emulation of the Emulator 2.

I still have my pile of old school samplers (EPSm,Emulator 2, Emax HDSE, Roland MKS)

I love the sound of them but the older I get the less I like to look for floppy disk.
Old 6th July 2009
  #16
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shadowfac's Avatar
 

What about the Blofeld keyboard? Not a lot of RAM, but enough for many applications.
Old 6th July 2009
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peglegjoe857 View Post
I mean. SOMEBODY OUT THERE MADE A ****ING DX-7 PROGRAMMER!

I don't mean to change the direction of this topic, but aren't there only 25 of those things in existence? A shame, as I wouldn't mind having one, and I don't think it helps any argument for making a new hardware sampler (though I'd love one of those too).
Old 6th July 2009
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Selidor View Post
I don't mean to change the direction of this topic, but aren't there only 25 of those things in existence? A shame, as I wouldn't mind having one, and I don't think it helps any argument for making a new hardware sampler (though I'd love one of those too).
True. I just thought "what has a ridiculous amount of knobs.. that DX programmer!"

It would be dope to own, no?

There are a few alternatives to tackle the DX programming problem. I love to program the machine... but have never really came out with many usable results... maybe a few dope snare drums...
Old 6th July 2009
  #19
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Yoozer's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Selidor View Post
I don't mean to change the direction of this topic, but aren't there only 25 of those things in existence? A shame, as I wouldn't mind having one, and I don't think it helps any argument for making a new hardware sampler (though I'd love one of those too).
Perhaps you can get close when you use 6 BCR2000s in conjunction with eachother, or 3 Doepfer Drehbanks.

Throw an A880 for MIDI merging duties in there, label the knobs properly, and you're done.

You could probably make it cheaper if you'd use a tabbed system where you simply get 3 rows of operator controls instead of the full 6 and a "tab" button to switch between these groups; it's not like you can turn that many controls with your hands at the same time, anyway.

You could probably get away with making 6 tabs for the keyboard level scaling; you'd be working a lot more with the envelopes anyway. Since the knobs are generally evenly spaced, blindly grabbing one isn't going to work well, either, and the envelope rate/level division is just stupid since ADSR with adjustable curves would be far saner.

The Jellinghaus is an engineering approach to FM synthesis; how to cram a lot of knobs on a panel that has to be as small as possible, instead of making it easy and intuitive.
Old 6th July 2009
  #20
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When I had a TX-7 I used to use my computer. Winsysx. I found a DX-7 profile. It only had course and detune. It didn't have the fine tune control so I had to program it. I don't know **** about programming, but was actually able to swing it. All the screens, it was rediculous. I lived in frisco for the first half of this year. I had to sell a bunch of gear to make it work. An Emax, Juno 60, JSQ-60, MG-1, JX-8P, the TX-7. I already got a new rack Emax. I am planning on getting the TX-7 again. For how cheap they are... and how small they are... I cannot deny it!

I have a kenton control freak now, got it a few months ago. There is a TX-7 profile... can't wait to try it! It takes up several preset pages. I think 7? I haven't looked at it much. I hope it is layed out logically...
Old 6th July 2009
  #21
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Barfunkel's Avatar
 

I don't think the more of everything approach to a dedicated HW sampler is a good idea... a computer will beat the specs anyway. They should make a HW sampler that has LESS stuff but the stuff should be really good. Great UI, simple approach to sampling (plus a built in vinyl amp, like on MPC's), probably analog filters (and per voice, not just as an FX), converters that add a little something to the equation a la old MPC's, maybe some weirdo algorhithms that make the sounds less static and so on.

I mean, computers can have like thousands of voices playing at the same time but they are still making HW monosynths. Lots of people like old samplers, why couldn't they make something like an SP or S950, something with a personality instead of a simple sample player, with more memory, flash and USB and stuff.
Old 7th July 2009
  #22
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I dont think its right to compare computer with hardware samplers.
99% of the electronic Music gear uses DSP. which are desinged for this job. like the rest of the machine. We are just used to modern storage devices and since you can manage your sample library on the PC doesnt mean its a must have feature to be able to easily transfer a huge amount of wav from a to b.
I remember a photo where a guy sits in from of his mpc2000 and the whole room was filled with floppy disk. Must be fun looking for a special sample .
Old 7th July 2009
  #23
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Beermaster's Avatar
 

Akai Z4 and Z8 were probably the last of the truely dedicated hardware samplers - they were out about six years ago ? - Lots of teething problems to begin with. They stream off disk like software, they have Aksys USB connection to Computer editing 512 Meg Ram 20 gig internal drives as standard with the MPC libraries and S5000 libraries pre-installed and some individual libraries too...... Problem was that Akai were in the **** soon after and not enough were sold. At the end of the day It makes little difference whether you're using Soft or Hard samplers from an interface point of view

Beer
Old 7th July 2009
  #24
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Yoozer's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barfunkel View Post
I don't think the more of everything approach to a dedicated HW sampler is a good idea...
Well, that's the role the MPCs and Korg Electribes sort of fulfill. I think the reason there's been few explorations in that direction is because you can't easily solder stuff (it requires programming) and because samplers were seen as an instrument that emulated - and when a better emulation comes along, you don't have to feel guilty to dump the previous one.

Quote:
I mean, computers can have like thousands of voices playing at the same time but they are still making HW monosynths.
Correct; but that's not the reasoning behind making monosynths .

Quote:
Lots of people like old samplers, why couldn't they make something like an SP or S950, something with a personality instead of a simple sample player, with more memory, flash and USB and stuff.
The point is that nobody liked those parts of the S950s personality.

People are as glad to be rid of SCSI voodoo as they are of crashing DAT tapes. It's a part of the 90s nobody thinks fondly of. The solution is to retrofit the old samplers with newer storage methods or to recreate the old sampling character in a new device.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with USB and a Flash drive - far less noise and heat and bulky cables with caveats about how stuff is hooked up.
Old 7th July 2009
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beermaster View Post
Akai Z4 and Z8 were probably the last of the truely dedicated hardware samplers - they were out about six years ago ? - Lots of teething problems to begin with. They stream off disk like software, they have Aksys USB connection to Computer editing 512 Meg Ram 20 gig internal drives as standard with the MPC libraries and S5000 libraries pre-installed and some individual libraries too...... Problem was that Akai were in the **** soon after and not enough were sold. At the end of the day It makes little difference whether you're using Soft or Hard samplers from an interface point of view

Beer
z4 does not stream audio from HD, only RAM
Old 13th July 2009
  #26
Gear Nut
 

Just to reply about sata: the mpc4000 can use sata hd's with a ide to sata converter. Hopefully someone will try ssd soon with a converter.
Old 13th July 2009
  #27
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maybe mr. linn should take the opportunity and bring us something, cut the analog and introduce some more sampling features...
Old 13th July 2009
  #28
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wakestyle's Avatar
maybe the best hope would be for a mv-8800 successor? As it is now it is a very great hardware sampler but is a little out of date in terms of it's internal hardware, bit depth (clipping is a problem) and only one effects section. Other than that they shoulnd't change a darn thing!
Old 14th July 2009
  #29
Quote:
Originally Posted by peglegjoe857 View Post
True. I just thought "what has a ridiculous amount of knobs.. that DX programmer!"
looks like allot, but i'm guessing it's the same thing six times. one row for each of the six operators.

one row to find them, one row to rule them all and in the darkness, bind them......
Old 11th August 2009
  #30
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Llitsor's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kazper View Post
Seen the 8 bit "where's the Party at"
Where's the Party At: Nerdy Embedded Systems Design Wizardry

There is people poking at making DIY samplers, that in itself will lead to better projects.

Sorry, im a little late to this thread, as I only registered here today.
Anyway, I bought & built the WTPA sampler kit. And its pretty damn good! That is, if lofi retro grungy sampling is your thing.
Even an old S900 would p!ss all over it for features and sound quality. But then that isn't quite the point of this thing.
Its retro sampling at its most crude and character-full. Much like the very earliest digital samplers. Yet this kit does things that I believe you can't even do with modern samplers. Like reduce the bit rate on the fly (yes, you can have 1, 2 or 5 bit or whatever samples if you like). And introduce varying amounts of jitter and other such oddities. Perhaps some software can do similar things. But software isn't as much fun nor as handson. And I believe this to sound far more raw also..

It's designed to be circuit bent, but I don't really get into that side of things. The creator (Todd Bailey) also has other similar projects in the works I believe. Plus improved frimware with extra features in the pipeline for the original WTPA's also.

I like!
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