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Phasey sound out of stereo synths?
Old 2nd July 2009
  #1
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Phasey sound out of stereo synths?

Hi, used the search thing, nothing came out of it so...

Well let's say you have a Korg Prophecy, and you wanna record a bass sound in mono ( just one channel)

Well, I've noticed this weird phasey sound on all stereo synths I have when recording one side only ( alpha juno, prophecy, microq, even Nord Lead with individual outputs engaged!)
Is this an interface problem ( motu 8pre) or there's just something I would need to look at?
If all I need is a bass sound, why bother with a stereo file?
In the past I did it as a stereo file, but when playing it at a mono source the bass dissapeared, that's why I started doing this.

So guys, any tips, workarounds, etc?

Thank you!
Old 2nd July 2009
  #2
tell us your recording chain please.

Prophecy out of what? L or R or L+R into what using what cable/jack plug.
Old 2nd July 2009
  #3
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Korg Prophecy L output ( or Right, doesn't matter) - mogami cable, neutrik connectors into 8pre's inputs ( they're supposed to be line/mic hybrids)
Old 2nd July 2009
  #4
no mixer or patch bay? is the jack/lead mono/stereo/balanced?
Old 2nd July 2009
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by golden beers View Post
no mixer or patch bay? is the jack/lead mono/stereo/balanced?
Yes, there's a patchbay of course, unbalanced neutrik, normalled from 1-8 to 8pre's inputs.
The lead is mono
Old 2nd July 2009
  #6
and do you have this problem if you take that chain and feed your monitors directly (without going ITB)?
Old 2nd July 2009
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by golden beers View Post
and do you have this problem if you take that chain and feed your monitors directly (without going ITB)?
Umm plugging the synth directly into the monitors? no phase issues from what I know.

The thing is when recording a stereo synth, it seems to be a phase thing there, like if the cuemix app had a loop going on, even tho the channels are muted on cuemix.
Old 2nd July 2009
  #8
well if you don't have that problem going directly than it's your interface settings or your record/daw settings (perhaps the interface itself but i doubt that). i'd guess probably some set up in your daw you have to change. if you're monitoring (in DAW) while you're recording, turn that off. that might be your issue.
Old 2nd July 2009
  #9
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Maybe there is something strange that makes the stereo pair 'collapse' to mono (both left n right are mixed to one channel) ?
Old 2nd July 2009
  #10
i got the impression that he gets this phase problem when recording in mono.
is this the case, turd? are you:

a) recording a mono signal in mono?
b) recording a mono signal in stereo?
Old 2nd July 2009
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by golden beers View Post
i got the impression that he gets this phase problem when recording in mono.
is this the case, turd? are you:

a) recording a mono signal in mono?
b) recording a mono signal in stereo?

Yeah, but the phasing suggests 2 signals get recorded.
So i was thinking he may be recording 2 channel stereo to one mono channel or maybe even just stereo with both channels panned to center.

But i agree, we need to know the exact path from source to recording to figure it out.

Turd, Did you test with only a single cable going from the synth into the interface? (i realy mean remove all other 7 inputs on the patchay).
If you have done this, you can then try to record a stereo track in your daw.
If everything is good then you should see only one channel of the stereo pair having a signal (you should see this in cuemix and your DAW) .
(this is only a test to see if channel separation is good in your chain).

Also, you say that if you record in stereo and then collapse to mono then the bass disappears. Maybe you have faulty wiring in the patchbay or cabling that reverses polarity on one of the channels. Bass should not disappear just like that. It could be a reversed hot/cold on a balanced connection from the patchbay.

What DAW do you use for recording btw?
Old 2nd July 2009
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by golden beers View Post
i got the impression that he gets this phase problem when recording in mono.
is this the case, turd? are you:

a) recording a mono signal in mono?
b) recording a mono signal in stereo?
I'm recording a mono signal out of only one channel of the synth ( only connecting one of its outputs)

It's Logic8 between, and it happened with ableton too.

When recording a stereo signal, everything sounds ok, but not much separation.
When I monitor thru the interface, it sounds nice, clean, powerful, and wider ( stereo signals, from, for example, the micro q), but it's when recorded when the problems are there.
So that would rule out the patchbay I think?

Don't really know what's happening anyway...in Logic, the stereo field is set to -3 compensated, 24 bit, 44'1...

Thanks for the ideas guys! let's see if we can find the problem
Old 2nd July 2009
  #13
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Are you sure you are recording just the input? Maybe there's a weird feedback loop somewhere, like you are sending the input to an AUX with no FX going on and the DAW is recording the same thing twice, with a slight timing difference.
Old 2nd July 2009
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barfunkel View Post
Are you sure you are recording just the input? Maybe there's a weird feedback loop somewhere, like you are sending the input to an AUX with no FX going on and the DAW is recording the same thing twice, with a slight timing difference.
Yeah I checked, it seems to be a cuemix/logic loop when monitoring, but it shouln't be on the recorded file.
I wouldn't care much if it's just on monitoring, since I know the solution ( turning off logic's soft monitoring, muting all inputs on cuemix, muting the recorded track on logic...etc)
What's bugging me is the fact that's on the recorded file.

Another test I made this morning, I sampled the same R output from the korg into my Emu e64, no weird phase thing. Besides it sounded even better, but that's not a solution atm.
Old 2nd July 2009
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiny Turd View Post
I'm recording a mono signal out of only one channel of the synth ( only connecting one of its outputs)

It's Logic8 between, and it happened with ableton too.

When recording a stereo signal, everything sounds ok, but not much separation.
When I monitor thru the interface, it sounds nice, clean, powerful, and wider ( stereo signals, from, for example, the micro q), but it's when recorded when the problems are there.
So that would rule out the patchbay I think?

Don't really know what's happening anyway...in Logic, the stereo field is set to -3 compensated, 24 bit, 44'1...

Thanks for the ideas guys! let's see if we can find the problem
(still asuming only one cable connected)
In cuemix, do you see only one channel arrive?
Then in logic, how are your input channels configured?
Do you use stereo inputs or mono inputs?
If stereo, do you see only one channel arrive or is there signal on both sides of the stereo channel?
Old 2nd July 2009
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiny Turd View Post
Yeah I checked, it seems to be a cuemix/logic loop when monitoring, but it shouln't be on the recorded file.
I wouldn't care much if it's just on monitoring, since I know the solution ( turning off logic's soft monitoring, muting all inputs on cuemix, muting the recorded track on logic...etc)
What's bugging me is the fact that's on the recorded file.

Another test I made this morning, I sampled the same R output from the korg into my Emu e64, no weird phase thing. Besides it sounded even better, but that's not a solution atm.

It sounds as if you have logic output to cuemix and you are recording the main outputs of cuemix in logic.
Maybe you should set up a bus in cuemix where you send the synth to.
Then record the bus in logic.
That way the output from logic should not be able to get into that bus channel and get re-recorded.
But i have never worked with cuemix so i'm not sure if you can send a bus to a logic input.
Old 2nd July 2009
  #17
I found that stereo synths with chorus (Juno 106, MKS-50, etc) gain their stereo 'width' by detuning both sides from each other as well as some funky phase stuff.

Normally stereo synths turn mono with something only in their left out. Not much to add here but I use Logic's soft monitoring all the time and I've never had anything 'creep' into the recording. I highly doubt your interface is to blame.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiny Turd View Post
Hi, used the search thing, nothing came out of it so...

Well let's say you have a Korg Prophecy, and you wanna record a bass sound in mono ( just one channel)

Well, I've noticed this weird phasey sound on all stereo synths I have when recording one side only ( alpha juno, prophecy, microq, even Nord Lead with individual outputs engaged!)
Is this an interface problem ( motu 8pre) or there's just something I would need to look at?
If all I need is a bass sound, why bother with a stereo file?
In the past I did it as a stereo file, but when playing it at a mono source the bass dissapeared, that's why I started doing this.

So guys, any tips, workarounds, etc?

Thank you!
Old 2nd July 2009
  #18
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change the point on your Neutrik patchbay, just move to a different point, what happens .. ?
Old 2nd July 2009
  #19
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What is the patch? a bass sound? I recall Prophecy is monotonic.
Old 2nd July 2009
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Farshad View Post
What is the patch? a bass sound? I recall Prophecy is monotonic.
Monotimbral.
But stereo.
Old 3rd July 2009
  #21
Gear Maniac
 
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Ok, did some further testing this evening.

It was a mix between some problems. With the one lead only method, it was cuemix that was making a loop, what I don't really know is why it was being recorded ( the input setting on logic's channel was input 3, not a bus or whatever)
And, when I used the patchbay for stereo signals ( remember I said there wasn't much separation) I have the guessing the patchbay itself is the problem, like if it had some bleed of some sort.

Another thing, the situation has improved when I installed cuemix's latest version, right now, with logic's set to monitoring incoming signals, as well as cuemix, all I hear is slight phasing, on the earlier version I had, all the bass seemed to dissapear.

That and recording levels. Separation was horrid when being really low ( think -12db on the motu's meters) but somewhat better at -6db.

So I have to change the patchbay and do some modifications in all the cabling ( such as wiring some synths in mono straight away)

Thanks guys for the help
Old 3rd July 2009
  #22
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hooray!
Old 3rd July 2009
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiny Turd View Post
So I have to change the patchbay and do some modifications in all the cabling ( such as wiring some synths in mono straight away)
save yourself future problems with TT patchbays.. they are world difference.
Old 4th July 2009
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiny Turd View Post
logic's set to monitoring incoming signals, as well as cuemix, all I hear is slight phasing,
I used to get this in Logic and Ableton with my Ultralite. When you're recording or listening to input in the DAW, you should have your inputs muted in CueMix. The phaseyness you're hearing is the delay between hardware monitoring of CueMix and software monitoring of the DAW - If you change your I/O buffer settings in logic, you'll notice the phase relationship changing.

Or are you saying that the phaseyness is being recorded? That, I can't explain.
Old 4th July 2009
  #25
Gear Maniac
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by networkacid View Post

Or are you saying that the phaseyness is being recorded? That, I can't explain.
Being recorded when you just plug one output of a hardware synth, hence my question...
What I'm doing in the meantime is just sampling the sound and using my e64...if I'm not doing any automation or sweeps, of course.

I'm in a DM phase lately so a static bass rocks
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