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Detroit Techno Keyboard Synthesizers
Old 27th July 2011
  #301
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Tarkovsky's Avatar
 

I have to say I think the terms soulful, deep etc. are all just marketing gimmicks.

Also I don't believe in talent... just a musicians real commitment to music, putting the time hours in. That's what shows. IMO that's what you can hear.

My secret tips:
Repitch everything with as many different algoes as you can for textural effect
Subtle overdrive
Spend ages getting the tales of the sound to decay into each other just right. IMO this is much more important in making groove than offsetting midi ticks on the start times.
Old 28th July 2011
  #302
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Simonator's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nev View Post
I have a Mpc3000, I meant this box
That be the one!... but then we prolly shouldn't be advertising this anymore!
Old 28th July 2011
  #303
Nev
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Nev's Avatar
 

Edu Imbernon is just classic in the making. His arrangements are sick. His sound is always on point to the classic house sound:



The most interesting part of that classic sound of all these types of tracks is how well the producers juggle the bass and the deep bass drum. It's easy to lay a hollow kick, or a deep sine wave as just a kick with minimal melodies (yeah Tech House genre , I'm talking about you) but lay down a heavy bass drum AND a moving bass, that takes some fancy mixing (and no side chainn is not the final answer)
Old 28th July 2011
  #304
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Lumin One's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whatupdoe? View Post
And you are absolutely right about this. The thing that people miss is that is isn't about the gear or the technique. It's about having a personal style the s recognizable as your own.

You can hear a Kenny, Theo, or Omar track and recognize it as their instantly. They all have their little tricks and habits that mark their tracks and give them a personal style. As a new producer, you need to pick up a bunch of your own little tricks, and that is where your identity comes from.
It isn't about having a big studio, getting paid, or getting hype, it is about finding your own voice. Once you get that voice, all the other **** just falls into place.

If you gave Theo a Juno 60 and an MPC60, he would make something dope. It isn't because of the gear, it is just because he knows how to get that feel. He has his own style that screams Theo Parrish. That's the holy grail, a signature style of your own.

yeah man. im with you.
dont think i was arguing with you by the way. just pointing some things out. no butthurtedness on this end haha
Old 28th July 2011
  #305
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Whatupdoe? View Post
There aren't any secret tricks to be honest.

The key is to learn how black and latin music works, and apply the logic of the various genres to your house music. IOW learn the rhythms, chord progressions, chord voicings/extensions, arrangement techniques...
Or you could just record the phrase "losing control" into a sampler and filter the **** out of it
Old 28th July 2011
  #306
Gear Nut
 
jalguitarman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nev View Post
A good Fender Rhodes doesn't hurt
A nice mpc60 or sp1200, a classic Juno 106, or JX8P, a nice mixer and you're golden.

My weakest point are congas, definitely. What I do is I take a conga loop, and I dissect it, then recreate it. I do the same with drums on records and bass riffs on records. I just bought a bass guitar and I started teaching myself as of 3 days ago.

The funk is in the groove I literally sit and improvise to tracks like this for 2 hours a day, hit record and capture the session:

lil something I threw together while remixing a track I was working on that I was not feeling.
I like that!!
Old 28th July 2011
  #307
Gear Addict
 

Just want to say the Whatupdoe? is one of the realest dude's on here and his posts never waste anyone's time.

Fooddude, you better just start using the **** out of the gear you have and learn your own sound. A trick someone tells you how to do isn't as good as one you discover and learn through experimentation.

There's a theory that Talent = 10,000 hours of practice. Just listen to the style you like and start making tunes that don't sound like what you are listening too, but would bring something to a DJ set with those tracks.
Old 29th July 2011
  #308
Gear Nut
 

Vowel filters on your drums, bass, or vocals, automate the wet-dry, center freq, or Q for a sense of movement. I find toggling between U, E, and A the most satisfying on those source.
Old 29th July 2011
  #309
Lives for gear
 

Yeah I heard that too from musicians/band members.... your own skill/talent/genius = 20,000 hours of practice.. hehe

There was another cool quote from i forget who (I think Miles Davis)... something like, "don't practice for a day, you'll hear it. don't practice for 2 days, your fans will hear it. don't practice for 3 or more days, everyone will hear it." ...very good quote.

My brain and mind is my filter for my own sound, or anyone's really, I guess. Thats the way I see it - if I feel it, it's gonna be in it; if not, then it's out. Same thing when I dj or make mix sets, I guess. I notice my cuts don't sound anything close to my fave producers songs...sometimes it scares me how depressing or [email protected] mine sound haha..especially when I am trying to make uplifting "dance" music, lol.
Old 29th July 2011
  #310
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Acid Mitch's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by fooddude View Post
sometimes it scares me how depressing or [email protected] mine sound haha..especially when I am trying to make uplifting "dance" music, lol.
How long do you think it took your favourite producers to start making things that are good ? I bet it took them a while.
You have to be prepared to be crap for a while in the hope you "might" produce something good when you develop the skills.
Unless you want to sell what your making, it doesn't matter about the end result so long as you have fun in the process .
Old 29th July 2011
  #311
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Acid Mitch's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tarkovsky View Post
Also I don't believe in talent... just a musicians real commitment to music, putting the time hours in. That's what shows. IMO that's what you can hear.

.
So how do you explain the people who put in the time but still cant do it ?
It's not just music I see this with . Some people can spend years driving cars and still never get the hang of it - same with sports.
Old 29th July 2011
  #312
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<3



X]
Old 29th July 2011
  #313
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Tarkovsky's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Acid Mitch View Post
So how do you explain the people who put in the time but still cant do it ?
It's not just music I see this with . Some people can spend years driving cars and still never get the hang of it - same with sports.
Musics not a sport. You can't win at art.

The amount of musical acumen it takes to write a popular piece of music isn't out of reach of anyone other than those limited by a serious learning disability or perhaps those who are very very hard of hearing (I say very very, because lots of fantastic musicians are actually partial deaf).
What is out of reach for most people, however, is the marketing support and funding required to build a fanbase/achieve market penetration/live off of their work. But none of that has anything to do with 'talent'.

Also I don't inherently believe in talent in general. Mostly, there are propensities. Driving is a good example because to get a car round a track very quickly you need the reflexes of a cat... but even that's not enough. You need the best car. How do you get the best car? By being very good. But how do you get to be very good? Look at the best, look at Aryton Senna... he was a rich boy who had his parents support doing exactly what he wanted to do. He had total focus and impossible drive.
Now I'd say that in racing you do need those amazing reaction times, like a lot of sportsmen, but even then I think that just the base factor. What it really comes down to is a network of individuals who believe in you and support you.

Finally... just go check out the biogs for some of the biggest EDM musicians. They are constantly going on about how their propensity for music started as a child. But I think it's the same bollocks everytime. Ultimately the bios are pretty lousy attempts to justify their privilege, or even to assert that they have that privilege. But we all know that making really decent tracks takes time and effort both in the short term and the long. The fact is, having the time to do that is a privilege but truthfully it's deeply un meritocratic, so to restore our fait in our tastes we play along... it suits everyone to believe the talent fallacy.

My grandfather was a successful artist and he always told me 1% inspiration 99% perspiration.
Old 29th July 2011
  #314
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rasmus's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tarkovsky View Post
Musics not a sport. You can't win at art.
great post!

all that talk about talent is mostly protectionism.
when i was 14 years old some of my older "friends" told me i´d never be good at music, that kept me from seriously considering music as a carreer for years.
i even stopped practicing playing the guitar for years, but luckily developed an interest in electronic music later on.

i´m still making music, they don´t
Old 29th July 2011
  #315
Tips? Practical and useful tips?
I dipped out on page one, dropped back in again on page two and are we still arguing about what makes a good House producer/artist?
Old 29th July 2011
  #316
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worm's Avatar
 

one tip that hasn't been mentioned is not quantising. theo parrish uses this a lot. record in raw. sometimes it's even cool play the 4/4 kick in for the duration of the track. obviously you will need some skills to keep this sounding good, because there are limits to how loose you want to go before it becomes hard to listen to. but if you get it right, the natural fluctuations will give the track a much more organic feel.

then when you've got your 4/4 foundation you can try doing some hi hats but with those you can go a bit crazier, really push the boundaries and play way out. exagerate the looseness. think of jazz musicians purposely playing blue notes to add tension.

obviously this can end up sounding like utter ****, so there is an amount of control involved, but this is the part that makes it interesting.

another option with your loose kick drums is to do some very quantised hats, when i say quantised, that can be triplets, 16ths, swung or whatever (because even a swung groove repeating over and over again will sound like a machine). the point is that they sound like they came out of a drum machine. as opposed to being played in by hand. this will also create some nice tension with the contrast of mechanical vs. hand played.

with your hats you can try offsetting them so that they don't lay right on the pulse of the beat to create even more of a jarring effect.

then when you've got your rhythm nice and wonky you can try playing in your synths and samples with the same kind of attitude. purposefully loose.
Old 29th July 2011
  #317
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Nice tip on the quantize or not quantize...i mix it up. I guess this thread on "tips" can really be related to any genre...as they all can be put to use.

One thing i notice in many tracks is a sort of "prior" attack with a clap or finger snap. Sorta like a slow attack, but you can hear it coming and anticipate it coming...did that make sense? ..like a rustling of fingers before snapping, and that "snap" landing on the 2 or 4 but still has a little start/attack/pre-tail before the peak..not a reverse verb..did that make sense? How is this done? I assume it's just another layer added a little before the clap/finger snap, maybe even a reverse clap of a diff drum machine.
Old 29th July 2011
  #318
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Acid Mitch's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by fooddude View Post
How is this done? I assume it's just another layer added a little before the clap/finger snap, maybe even a reverse clap of a diff drum machine.
Change the attack of the amp envelope in your MPC60 and move the note a little early in the sequence
Old 29th July 2011
  #319
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thanks...that's what i kinda assumed... i haven't even experimented yet in nudging stuff/notes a tad yet in my mpc, via slight transposing stuff up or down.. good basic tip.

edit: wow...i just noticed my thread got merged with this..didn't know forums could do that... hi-tech 21st century
Old 30th July 2011
  #320
Ham
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Ham's Avatar
 

mind=blown by the combination of death.


d16 Decimort Bitcrusher with Waves Mpx Kramer Tape on drum bus.

I'm loving it, brb making 30 tracks in two days.
Old 30th July 2011
  #321
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Acid Mitch's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tarkovsky View Post
Musics not a sport. You can't win at art.
.
News just in - not all sports have winners or loosers.
You cant win at skateboarding ,surfing, BMXing, hiking , pot holing and many other sports.

Anyhoo, I never said art was a sport. I said in some ways it's like sport.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tarkovsky View Post
The amount of musical acumen it takes to write a popular piece of music isn't out of reach of anyone other than those limited by a serious learning disability or perhaps those who are very very hard of hearing (I say very very, because lots of fantastic musicians are actually partial deaf).
.
So why is myspace, soundcloud,etc awash with more crap than hits ?
Surely your not saying its because those people posting crap aren't privilaged enough ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tarkovsky View Post
What is out of reach for most people, however, is the marketing support and funding required to build a fanbase/achieve market penetration/live off of their work. But none of that has anything to do with 'talent'. .
None of that has anything to do with being able to play an instrument or write hits either.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tarkovsky View Post
Also I don't inherently believe in talent in general. Mostly, there are propensities. Driving is a good example because to get a car round a track very quickly you need the reflexes of a cat... but even that's not enough. You need the best car. How do you get the best car? By being very good.
But how do you get to be very good? Look at the best, look at Aryton Senna... he was a rich boy who had his parents support doing exactly what he wanted to do. He had total focus and impossible drive.
..
Your car analogy falls apart in so many places for me I dont even know where to start.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tarkovsky View Post
Finally... just go check out the biogs for some of the biggest EDM musicians. They are constantly going on about how their propensity for music started as a child. But I think it's the same bollocks everytime.
..
Are you talking pop stuff like Chemical Brothers and Teisto ?
Most of the artists I listen to were pretty poor and definitely not privelaged. Many had to hold down jobs and couldn't even afford their own equipment ,yet managed to find ways to get things done.. With some of them , their propensity for music did start as a child.They were getting gigs as kids.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tarkovsky View Post
The fact is, having the time to do that is a privilege but truthfully it's deeply un meritocratic, so to restore our fait in our tastes we play along... it suits everyone to believe the talent fallacy..
It's not a privalege, you just need to sacrifice other things in your life to make the time
Old 30th July 2011
  #322
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Acid Mitch's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by fooddude View Post
thanks...that's what i kinda assumed... i haven't even experimented yet in nudging stuff/notes a tad yet in my mpc, via slight transposing stuff up or down.. good basic tip.

edit: wow...i just noticed my thread got merged with this..didn't know forums could do that... hi-tech 21st century
It's a subtle hint to use search next time and not start multiple threads on the same thing
Old 1st August 2011
  #323
Here for the gear
 
roman_f's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by ztrl View Post
&#x202a;Move D - Like I was King (Black label mix) [Compost Black label]&#x202c;&rlm; - YouTube

I have little room with a PC, E-Mu 1212m, Mackie MR5, Cubase 5 with some good sample library.

Any chance to create something like this one (or another chicago house track), or I should give it up?
as far as i know david used ableton live with ableton operator those days
he has lots of hardware, but this track is software only
Old 1st August 2011
  #324
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nev View Post
A good Fender Rhodes doesn't hurt
A nice mpc60 or sp1200, a classic Juno 106, or JX8P, a nice mixer and you're golden.

My weakest point are congas, definitely. What I do is I take a conga loop, and I dissect it, then recreate it. I do the same with drums on records and bass riffs on records. I just bought a bass guitar and I started teaching myself as of 3 days ago.

The funk is in the groove I literally sit and improvise to tracks like this for 2 hours a day, hit record and capture the session:

lil something I threw together while remixing a track I was working on that I was not feeling.

Dammit Nev, just when I had convinced myself I didn't need an MPC I hear something like this I'd be interested in know what your setup is like.

(also, following on soundcloud now)
Old 21st February 2012
  #325
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It could be correct thread. I recall seeing people posting in the last couple pages about stuff that was just waaayyy off base. That is likely the reason it doesn't look quite right. Start at page one and read a few posts and it will start to come back.
Old 11th April 2012
  #326
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Detroit techno production - adding a cheap 16 channel mixer to my setup?

Hi,

I make Detroit techno/house and I've currently got a Focusrite Saffire Pro 26 I/O interface with Behringer ADA8000 ADAT expension, for a total of 16 input channels.

Whilst this is doing me ok for the moment, I'm considering getting a cheap second-hand 16 channel mixer for a bit more of a hands-on approach to making music and to add a bit of real analog warmth to my productions. My budget is perhaps £150.

Does anyone have any suggestions?

I've heard that the old Mackie CR 1604 was used extensively in productions since the early 90s and has a certain "sound" to it.
Perhaps this or one of it's successors such as the VLZ or VLZ Pro are also worth a look as they can be picked up pretty cheaply on ebay?

Cheers.
Old 11th April 2012
  #327
Gear Head
 
thomas_lang's Avatar
 

I'd recommend you to pick one up, did the same a while back and a lot easier to work with/more intuitive. Think any mixer will do the job as Detroit House/Techno was all pretty lo-fi. Not used the 1604 but the Mackie I have seems to do the job.
Old 11th April 2012
  #328
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backplay's Avatar
 

Cheap mixers usually means more muddy low's and low-mid's. So no thanks.
Old 11th April 2012
  #329
Gear Guru
 
Karloff70's Avatar
 

Put £200 and you can get likely a 16ch Soundcraft Delta. Sort of depends what sound you want. The Mackie is glassy/hollow and distorts from nothing to like a razorblade, the Delta more round/woody/papery and burns gradually. I don't much like Mackies, but having said that for your task it will likely add something useful nevertheless. Delta is sweeter though.

Get a Midiverb II for £30.
Old 11th April 2012
  #330
Lives for gear
 

I have a new school 1604 VLZ Pro..it's decent I guess, I can't really compare it to anything as it's my first mixer...

...but I need to upgrade to an inexpensive 24 or 32 channel soon (always maxing/running out of channels), maybe vintage and inexpensive? ....the warmer and more colorful the better... and recommendations?
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