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Detroit Techno Keyboard Synthesizers
Old 5th April 2011
  #271
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ztrl View Post
YouTube - Move D - Like I was King (Black label mix) [Compost Black label]

I have little room with a PC, E-Mu 1212m, Mackie MR5, Cubase 5 with some good sample library.

Any chance to create something like this one (or another chicago house track), or I should give it up?

Deep organic bass sounds might be harder to create, but everything else can be created with good samples with decent filters

Always good to have 1 analog piece just for bass and other tones, and make samples from, everything else can be sampler based. That's how I rolled for a while

Last edited by CoolColJ; 6th April 2011 at 12:01 AM..
Old 8th April 2011
  #272
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Haa I really have to say that I love this thread. I'm following Gearslutz since years but this one really made me signing up and posting something.
So: hello everybody! Sooo cool to see so many people here addicted to 90s sound and production techniques like me.
Just my 0.02€...erm...$ on the topic: I think besides having all the goody old gear back from the glory days it's also pretty good to run all your signals through all analog gear available. Using all filter, preamps, external Ins available really does the trick for me, also for signals from my DAW. Working completely analog without any computer is a nice thing to do, but I guess nowadays most of us have at least a shared workflow between bits and volts. Combining both world works pretty fine for me...

Cheers,
Johannes
Old 8th April 2011
  #273
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ztrl View Post
YouTube - Move D - Like I was King (Black label mix) [Compost Black label]

I have little room with a PC, E-Mu 1212m, Mackie MR5, Cubase 5 with some good sample library.

Any chance to create something like this one (or another chicago house track), or I should give it up?

I believe you can do it just on that equipment. Just concentrate on one vst synth, create your presets, save it, use it and be creative. Use classic drum machines samples. But its really easy to buy gear now, which was used by house producers from that era. You can buy pair of synths and a classy sampler less than 500$! That gear was much more expensive in 80's
Old 10th April 2011
  #274
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Quote:
Originally Posted by top dog View Post
I believe you can do it just on that equipment. Just concentrate on one vst synth, create your presets, save it, use it and be creative. Use classic drum machines samples. But its really easy to buy gear now, which was used by house producers from that era. You can buy pair of synths and a classy sampler less than 500$! That gear was much more expensive in 80's
thanks! what about Korg M1 Legacy? Do you think it is good for synth? Or should I try Arturia's Moog Modular?
Old 10th April 2011
  #275
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ztrl View Post
thanks! what about Korg M1 Legacy? Do you think it is good for synth? Or should I try Arturia's Moog Modular?
Korg M1 Le is one of best vsts for recreating 90s house music - great pads, ethnic sounds, strings, and what a piano! As some owners of M1 saying, its sounds like a real M1, though its more clear, which i think is not a big trouble. M1 vst may be not so useful for some of nowadays house producers, but if you're fan of Pal Joey and Larry Heard sound, its irreplaceable instrument!
As for Arturia synths, i believe, they're good enough for doing basslines as in your video. It may not sound exactly as powerful hw Moogs, but it can sound like a real thing. Just spend time with programming, and you won't be dissapointed.
Old 11th April 2011
  #276
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Quote:
Originally Posted by top dog View Post
Korg M1 Le is one of best vsts for recreating 90s house music - great pads, ethnic sounds, strings, and what a piano! As some owners of M1 saying, its sounds like a real M1, though its more clear, which i think is not a big trouble. M1 vst may be not so useful for some of nowadays house producers, but if you're fan of Pal Joey and Larry Heard sound, its irreplaceable instrument!
As for Arturia synths, i believe, they're good enough for doing basslines as in your video. It may not sound exactly as powerful hw Moogs, but it can sound like a real thing. Just spend time with programming, and you won't be dissapointed.
Okay, I will try them. I have some tunes in my head....
Old 11th April 2011
  #277
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ztrl View Post
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWg2z...eature=related

I have little room with a PC, E-Mu 1212m, Mackie MR5, Cubase 5 with some good sample library.

Any chance to create something like this one (or another chicago house track), or I should give it up?
I have a very similiar setup +/- a few things.

A very strong PC, Emu 1616m PCIe, krk v6g2 monitors, Ableton Live/Reaper, some good one-hit sample libraries, and some good vst synths.

I have a few pieces of analog outboard that quite honestly get very very little use. Now I don't make music of the style your seeking and quite honestly I'm fairly inept at mixing/post production, but you can get somewhat of an idea of the sound your setup is capable of producing via the link in my signature.

Also temper this with the fact that our similar setups can probably produce a far better finished product if the person using them had a good degree of talent on the mixing side of things, because I don't.
Old 25th April 2011
  #278
Gear Head
 

The Korg M1 is a little bit difficult. No manual on the internet, so I can't start learning it.
Old 27th July 2011
  #279
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Tips for Detroit style house (theo parrish, huckaby, mcde, 3chairs, kdj, omar s, etc)

I like making house, reminiscent of east coast underground, deep, classic, ny, nj and also detroit.

Any tips on drums, percussion, sampling, sample usage, riffs & chords, bass, outboard processing, rhythm technique, etc. very welcome.

I only know a few little tricks that are common.. like resampled chords, and doing a little more than just a hat on the perfect upbeat.

I really want to know how they get all there metallic percussions with unusual attacks or delay/sustains/releases and unique uncommon glitchy type grooves and percussions. I assume they use kicks, snares or other sometimes and truncate out the attack and/or release portion of a sample sometimes (ie: using only the middle part of a perc sample; I heard some people do this). I like a lot of their common industrial percussions. Or how to get super-long hats, snares, claps (timestretch?)

Also, any tips on chord usage/progressions with odd staccato's notes that are suspended. Yeah, of course I know I can just play until I come up with decent stuff.. but, just seeing if there are any tips out there.

Sample tips and tricks welcome too. I know most use soul and funk records to sample; pretty much liks classic hip hop; but in a house context/style. I've been archiving and recording old soul, funk and disco records of mine lately.

Outboard tips that are somewhat common in detroit house are welcome too: filters, mods, ringmods, phasers, flanges, verbs, delays, lfos, etc., etc.... and/or old equipment used that might help.

...just really wanting to hear if there are neat, uncommon, "secret" tricks and tips out there to get that sound reminiscent of detroit house.

(btw: I use all old 80s hardware (which I assume helps): mpc60 as my main sequencer with some old analog synths, samplers and fx)
Old 27th July 2011
  #280
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Simonator's Avatar
 

General threads which you might find useful:

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/elect...eep-house.html

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/elect...-hardware.html

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/elect...ds-tracks.html

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/elect...acter-itb.html



For 'metallic percussion', perhaps some of these might help:

Quote:
Originally Posted by aeonlux View Post
First, I would recommend reading the excellent Sound on Sound Synth Secrets articles that deal with percussive synthesis:

Sound on Sound 2001-11 Synthesizing Percussion
Sound on Sound 2001-12 Practical Percussion Synthesis
Sound on Sound 2002-01 Synthesizing Drums: The Bass Drum
Sound on Sound 2002-02 Practical Bass Drum Synthesis
Sound on Sound 2002-03 Synthesizing Drums: The Snare Drum
Sound on Sound 2002-04 Practical Snare Drum Synthesis
Sound on Sound 2002-05 Synth Secrets: Analysing Metallic Percussion
Sound on Sound 2002-06 Synthesizing Realistic Cymbals
Sound on Sound 2002-07 Practical Cymbal Synthesis
Sound on Sound 2002-08 Synthesizing Bells
Sound on Sound 2002-09 Synthesizing Cowbells & Claves

Next, I would read the Percussion chapter in the Nord Mod book by Jim Clark. These techniques can be adapted to many synth architectures.

Percussive Synthesis Techniques on the Nord Modular

Then, I would download the manual for the Waldorf RackAttack, as it has some excellent descriptions of analog drum circuitry and theory for synthesis:

.pdf manual for the Waldorf RackAttack

Next, it might spark some ideas to look at the design of the Mungo dDS Drum Synth:

.pdf manual for the Mungo dDS Drum Synth

Also of note are the Roland patches for their System 100 synth.

Roland Analog Percussion Notes

That should get you started!


cheers,
Ian



One thing I've been trying lately is using ring-mod on sounds, and adjusting the carrier freq until it sounds musically in harmony with my track/the original input sound... then adjusting the wet/dry balance until I get it sounding nice.

Try opening a pitched 808 conga in a sampler, and pitching it so it is transposed across the key-range.
Now play two notes, perhaps a fourth (5 semitones) or a fifth (7 semitones) apart.
Now try the ring mod trick I mentioned in the previous paragraph.
* Ding *
Add some delay, drink a cider, dance around :-)
Old 27th July 2011
  #281
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There aren't any secret tricks to be honest.

The key is to learn how black and latin music works, and apply the logic of the various genres to your house music. IOW learn the rhythms, chord progressions, chord voicings/extensions, arrangement techniques...

After 1990, the tricks aren't really with the gear anymore.

You can make a good Detroit house record with an mpc, mixer, a couple of cheap digital keyboards, a cheap fx box and a tape deck. In fact, the worse your set up, the better the record will sound. Anything more than that is over-kill.

Again, the funk doesn't come from the gear, it comes from the music. That is why these forums are filled with clowns with 30k studios who have never done a record, and Detroit is filled with broke dudes who became legends with a sampler and a tape deck.
Old 27th July 2011
  #282
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whatupdoe? View Post
There aren't any secret tricks to be honest.

The key is to learn how black and latin music works, and apply the logic of the various genres to your house music. IOW learn the rhythms, chord progressions, chord voicings/extensions, arrangement techniques...

After 1990, the tricks aren't really with the gear anymore.

You can make a good Detroit house record with an mpc, mixer, a couple of cheap digital keyboards, a cheap fx box and a tape deck. In fact, the worse your set up, the better the record will sound. Anything more than that is over-kill.

Again, the funk doesn't come from the gear, it comes from the music. That is why these forums are filled with clowns with 30k studios who have never done a record, and Detroit is filled with broke dudes who became legends with a sampler and a tape deck.

I know what ur sayin... to me they're secrets

Love to hear tips on techniques on how to build afro/black/latin influenced piano riffs, drum patterns, rhythms, bass lines, etc. Yes, I have been practicing and learning simple basic theory (sales, chords, progressions, etc) for the past year and continue to do so, but it isn't enough honestly. I love to watch others' fingers when they play keys and how they play with technique. A good example of a technique that isn't really taught in general basic theory, is bossa guitar and how spanish blocks play the guitar, etc, etc. Stuff like this I like to learn. I used to practive djembe too, so that gave me a little knowledge on many unique drum techniques and patterns I could apply.

Simonator...thanks for that tip ....you mean play 2 conga notes at the same time for a chorused/harmonic conga? ..or do you mean playing around with them like a riff or separate from each other? ...I would love to have a ring-mod... always had that moogerfooger in my sight
Old 27th July 2011
  #283
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Lumin One's Avatar
you got to have some soul man. you can make tracks the same exact sounds, chord progressions, etc, but it aint going to sound the same if its coming from your head than from your inside. i bet if you gave each one of them the same chord progressions to use in a joint, they would each have their own take on it.
Old 27th July 2011
  #284
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Yeah, I know it comes from soul, the inside and skill. Ha. More just doing than just saying.

...maybe I shouldn've even started this thread, lol. I already know exactly what the responses and replies will be already
Old 27th July 2011
  #285
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Well its stimulated a worthy discussion of sorts ie-keep it simple and dance around ect.My advise is to stand when your programming your rhythms.Get a foot pedal to turn on record when your hitting a funky groove.thats if like me you play in real time.....btw-i like the music your mixing on sc fooddude.Oldschool
edit-play around with the triplets and swings.
edit 2-Yeah,record some of those (real) drums and percussion into the mpc.Whatever,will sound wicked.....

Last edited by Goa-Dubs; 27th July 2011 at 06:11 PM.. Reason: drums
Old 27th July 2011
  #286
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I don't buy into the whole soul thing. If for no other reason than because it reduces the technical achievements of black musicians down to some mystical negro thing. Don't bother to argue with me, because I am not going to waste my time talking about it. It isn't hard for an instrumentalist to sound "black" if he knows how the music works.

The things you want to learn are jazz chords(playing with extensions, and spreading out the voices), blues piano licks, Latin rhythm, how to fake polyrhythm, how to syncopate multiple drum lines against each other, how to use pitched elements as an extension of the drums, how to use accents to build grooves...

It's a lot of stuff that isn't hard to learn, but it real hard to explain in a forum post. It is sort of like how people used to learn their gear, you would buy one piece and spend the next six months trying to figure how to wring every little bit out of it. You learn the little tricks and they all build upon one another.

You are better off spending time in the studio messing with a book and a piano than you are spending all your time on the internet looking for the perfect vintage delay or boutique pre-amps. When it comes to production, you can get away with murder if you are funky. If I remember correctly, Fooddude has more than enough gear to make records.
Old 27th July 2011
  #287
Nev
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A good Fender Rhodes doesn't hurt
A nice mpc60 or sp1200, a classic Juno 106, or JX8P, a nice mixer and you're golden.

My weakest point are congas, definitely. What I do is I take a conga loop, and I dissect it, then recreate it. I do the same with drums on records and bass riffs on records. I just bought a bass guitar and I started teaching myself as of 3 days ago.

The funk is in the groove I literally sit and improvise to tracks like this for 2 hours a day, hit record and capture the session:

lil something I threw together while remixing a track I was working on that I was not feeling.
Old 27th July 2011
  #288
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You weren't feelin that track?? ..I was ...very nice. I like the slow lfo'ed chords.

As for perc..I never was impressed or rarely use the stock congas or toms out of the TR drums machines (909, 808, etc.). They sound way too naked, cheesy and upfront. But, I do notice on many classi house cuts their toms sound waaaay diff and processed or something (maybe heavy compression, 12-bit, timestretch, etc.). I also notice many classi house tracks with super-long hats, claps and snares...I never tried doing this yet, but I have an S950 now, which has timestretch :D

as for gear...ya, I have the essentials (mpc60, s950, mirage, juno60, m1000, tx81z, mixer, filter factory, mf101, dp2, midiverbII, sde1000, dp2, 3630....sold my 909, cs10, nbsr because i needed money; regret selling the 909 tho)

Ya...i'd love some real acoustic instruments (errr, real electric instruments, lol) like a Rhodes, Bass Guitar, etc. Do you think a Clavinet or a Philicord would be important or useful in house music? ..or is it more funk, soul and jazz? I assume the most useful real-electric instruments would be a rhodes and a bass guitar....which I still want.
Old 27th July 2011
  #289
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It depends on what you want to do.

If you want to spend time learning to be a tech, buy those vintage keyboards. Just be aware that they are complex electro-mechanical instruments which ARE going to break and need regular maintenance. They are cool and sexy, but the upkeep cuts into your music time.

This is about the most unslutty thing I can say, but a solid rompler with a decent keybed is about the best thing you can do for your music. It isn't as cool, but it cuts out all the bull**** that keeps you from doing music.

I used to be into vintage stuff, but the market is so shady and the gear is getting so fragile that I don't even want to mess with it anymore. I am getting real tired of people selling broken **** in "excellent" condition.

But yeah, there is no reason why you cant make records with an mpc60, a 950, and a juno 60. That is more than enough gear to make a record. I would put everything away except for those three pieces, a mixer and a single fx unit. Just keep it simple and work on your music. That cut down set up is nicer than what I used to make my first few records.
Old 27th July 2011
  #290
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Simonator's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by fooddude View Post
Simonator...thanks for that tip ....you mean play 2 conga notes at the same time for a chorused/harmonic conga? ..or do you mean playing around with them like a riff or separate from each other? ...I would love to have a ring-mod... always had that moogerfooger in my sight
Yep... SAME TIME so you get a two note chord.

Try following up what I said already with some decimation too :-)
Old 27th July 2011
  #291
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fooddude View Post
filter factory
How is this thing? All the vids I've seen of it absolutely suck bolls. I suspect that's more down to the user than the tool though.
Old 27th July 2011
  #292
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Simonator View Post
How is this thing? All the vids I've seen of it absolutely suck bolls. I suspect that's more down to the user than the tool though.
Excuse my n00bness, but what is decimation? Bit crush, sample into 8/12 bit or compress the heck out of it or filter I assume?

The FF? I actually like it and kept it. I love it's built in LFO. But the biggest thing is the HP; the HP sweet spot on kicks and bass BUMPS!

I had a Miniworks, Peavey as well... kept the FF, if that tell you anything ...It is so simple and fast to use. The MW sounds really nice, BUT, the menu diving kills it. Peavey, sound dirty but lacks any richness, thickness or bumps. It was like a dirty but thin sound = blech. The peavey made things sounds worse imo; it felt like it took OUT the good stuff. Now I have an mf101 which I am def keeping. It sounds really good and phat, even when the filter is wide open and no res or filtering is added. I'm pretty happy with my 2 current filters, the FF and mf101; wouldnt mind adding another one with hp. I actually thought about getting a 2nd FF; that's how much I like it. I even read a post once, that the FF's design goal was to mimick the MS-20 as well..but dunno if there is any truth to that, lol (this rumor will prolly make the FF prices rise, haha)
Old 27th July 2011
  #293
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fooddude View Post
Excuse my n00bness, but what is decimation? Bit crush, sample into 8/12 bit or compress the heck out of it or filter I assume?

The FF? I actually like it and kept it. I love it's built in LFO. But the biggest thing is the HP; the HP sweet spot on kicks and bass BUMPS!

I had a Miniworks, Peavey as well... kept the FF, if that tell you anything ...It is so simple and fast to use. The MW sounds really nice, BUT, the menu diving kills it. Peavey, sound dirty but lacks any richness, thickness or bumps. It was like a dirty but thin sound = blech. The peavey made things sounds worse imo; it felt like it took OUT the good stuff. Now I have an mf101 which I am def keeping. It sounds really good and phat, even when the filter is wide open and no res or filtering is added. I'm pretty happy with my 2 current filters, the FF and mf101; wouldnt mind adding another one with hp. I actually thought about getting a 2nd FF; that's how much I like it. I even read a post once, that the FF's design goal was to mimick the MS-20 as well..but dunno if there is any truth to that, lol (this rumor will prolly make the FF prices rise, haha)
The FF keeps coming up on fleabay at reasonable prices... I'm always cautious after watching these sh!t vids though where the device seems to make NO difference to the sound!

Mutator is out of my range, so (marginally) more realistically, I've been pining after the big Akai boxes, or the Rodec Sherman Restyler.
I want stereo, multimode... envelopes are a bonus.
Old 27th July 2011
  #294
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PS, forgot to say... decimation = sample rate reduction. Great for getting things crispy... through to downright f***ed.

Add a nice metallic edge.

Personally, I use D16 Decimort. Incredible plug.
Old 27th July 2011
  #295
Nev
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damn those akai boxes, slipping thru my fingers everytime i run across one on auction
Old 27th July 2011
  #296
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Lumin One's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whatupdoe? View Post
I don't buy into the whole soul thing. If for no other reason than because it reduces the technical achievements of black musicians down to some mystical negro thing. Don't bother to argue with me, because I am not going to waste my time talking about it. It isn't hard for an instrumentalist to sound "black" if he knows how the music works.

The things you want to learn are jazz chords(playing with extensions, and spreading out the voices), blues piano licks, Latin rhythm, how to fake polyrhythm, how to syncopate multiple drum lines against each other, how to use pitched elements as an extension of the drums, how to use accents to build grooves...
did i ever insinuate this? but if you want to take it there, i can point you in the direction of hundreds of records that chased that "black" sound and ended up sounding contrived and unoriginal, ie big band funky jazz, corny ass downtempo, deep house etc etc.
i aint even say anything about havin to be black to make soulful music. ask any mu****a that knows how bad bob james was/is. last i saw him, he was a white dude and dude gets the respect for being a soulful cat.
anyways
my point to what i said earlier is that you can use the same equipment that these guys use/used and still wont sound like them. yeah learn polyrhythms, jazz chords, and all that. that comes in handy with making the music but take the essence of what they do and do your own ****.
Old 27th July 2011
  #297
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Lumin One's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nev View Post
damn those akai boxes, slipping thru my fingers everytime i run across one on auction

someone had an mpc60 w/card reader in the classifieds.
thats what i use. it can definitely get that gritty detroit sound.
Old 27th July 2011
  #298
Nev
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lumin One View Post
someone had an mpc60 w/card reader in the classifieds.
thats what i use. it can definitely get that gritty detroit sound.
I have a Mpc3000, I meant this box
Old 27th July 2011
  #299
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lumin One View Post
did i ever insinuate this? but if you want to take it there, i can point you in the direction of hundreds of records that chased that "black" sound and ended up sounding contrived and unoriginal, ie big band funky jazz, corny ass downtempo, deep house etc etc.
i aint even say anything about havin to be black to make soulful music. ask any mu****a that knows how bad bob james was/is. last i saw him, he was a white dude and dude gets the respect for being a soulful cat.
anyways
my point to what i said earlier is that you can use the same equipment that these guys use/used and still wont sound like them. yeah learn polyrhythms, jazz chords, and all that. that comes in handy with making the music but take the essence of what they do and do your own ****.
And you can find twice as many records made by black folks that are every bit as corny. Look on youtube, you will find a lot of black people that can't sing, play or dance. Youtube is like the ultimate racial stereotype destroyer.

You don't need to get butthurt because we really aren't disagreeing on anything. To me good musicianship is good musicianship, which is why I don't really like the term "soul". Stevie Wonder wasn't good because he had "soul", he was good because he was a smart, talented guy who learned everything he could from the Motown session guys, worked his ass off on his own music, and worked on his career. He started off with a talent, but he didn't get there because of some magical black essence, he got there because he worked his ass off doing what he loved.

The best example of that is Bob Babbit who was a white dude who took over for James Jamerson in the Funk Brothers. Dude was able to keep up with James Jamerson, that is all you need to say. It wasn't because he had some magical essence, the guy worked for it, like everybody else who succeeds in music does.

That is the funny thing about the music industry, when you get behind the scenes there are a lot of white people playing on and engineering those black records. Talent is talent.
Old 27th July 2011
  #300
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Quote:
my point to what i said earlier is that you can use the same equipment that these guys use/used and still wont sound like them. yeah learn polyrhythms, jazz chords, and all that. that comes in handy with making the music but take the essence of what they do and do your own ****.
And you are absolutely right about this. The thing that people miss is that it isn't about the gear or the technique. It's about having a personal style that is recognizable as your own.

You can hear a Kenny, Theo, or Omar track and recognize it as their's instantly. They all have their little tricks and habits that mark their tracks and give them a personal style. As a new producer, you need to pick up a bunch of your own little tricks, and that is where your identity comes from. It isn't about having a big studio, getting paid, or getting hype, it is about finding your own voice. Once you get that voice, all the other **** just falls into place.

If you gave Theo a Juno 60 and an MPC60, he would make something dope. It isn't because of the gear, it is just because he knows how to get that feel. He has his own style that screams Theo Parrish. That's the holy grail, a signature style of your own.
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