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Old 31st July 2008
  #31
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The Architecture's Avatar
So in reality, things haven't changed, as far as overplaying a genre to death. Its inevitable when something gets big.

What we are seeing now that was different from then, Internet. Squarepusher said in an interview back in 1998, that mass movements as we know them are dead. This is true, thanks to the internet, people don't feel the need to conform to a group as much, so you have more and more fragmentation, which makes it hard to pin things down to specific movements, because we have a 1001 of them at the moment at any given time.

This also I think is contributing to a social breakdown in society as well. I know when I try talking to most people my age, they are solely interested in their "niche" things, and aren't really open to anything else, anything. Music is becoming less social, thats one thing we are definitely seeing.

Here's the other thing! When we speak of previous decades, we really only focus on the best of the decades. There have been many atrocities written in just about every decade, but we forget about em, and we focus on the ones that made those decades great.

I can say for sure there have been many good groups that will define the 00's for me, but you just got to remember that possibly 10-20 years from now, we might be talking about how the 00's were better than the 10's or 20's. Its bound to happen one day.
Old 31st July 2008
  #32
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The Architecture's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by DivineChemical View Post
I've probably got a skewed perspective on what electronic music is and was, but I've always been more into industrial, and they didn't start to blatantly rip each other off until the mid 90's, and even then, those guys were still a minority. In this decade, the entire industrial genre has fallen apart to where it's as bad as trance now.
I remember when I was a kid in the 90's, how I thought the 90's sucked compared to the 80's and 70's. I grew up with 80's Pop music, like Hall and Oats and Mr Mister (ok guys, this is your prompt to totally laugh at me, I was only 4-5 years old). When all I heard was this modern rock and rap crap, I was like "give me my 80's music and Disco". While everyone else had their SNES's and Genesis, I had my NES and Master System. I might as well have grown up in the 80's, because I didn't really enter the 90s till 98. Thats when I really got into modern electronic music.

My first real exposure to modern electronic music was through the Saturn version of "Wipeout" back in 1998. I was entranced with it back in the day, and I was like "I got to get more of this" So as I result I became a Wipeout Fanatic and a electronic music junkie shortly thereafter.

First two electronic albums I ever bought were Chemical Brothers Surrender and Mr Ozio's Analog Worms Attack. Both totally reshaped my perspective of music, to this day even. This was around 99-00, when I was 12-13. Around 1998-1999, I also discovered the start of my interest in Industrial and Goth music, started with NIN's Closer, which totally blew my mind with its awesome synths. i used to sit there and think "how did he do this?!" Then I got into Orgy for a while, not exactly goth, but definitely dark music.

So man, I pretty much skipped early to mid 90s of music when I grew up since I was stuck and enamored in the past.
Old 31st July 2008
  #33
Quote:
Originally Posted by keybdwizrd View Post
Maybe it's just me, but I have a hard time thinking of beatport or the music there as mainstream, as I can only guess, but imagine that that music is listened to by a tiny fraction of one percent of the people in the US.

I think it's meant to be mainstream in terms of dance oriented, DJ driven electronic music. You can't compare it to mainstream America.
As to the general discussion
By the way, the music is designed to be danced to, not listened to.
The culture behind this music has always been repetition and limited development of ideas.
I find it weird myself, but that's the way they like it.
i also agree that genres do stagnate.
How anyone can still work within the strict framework of 909, four on the floor bass drum, with a filtering riff over the top is beyond me. It was all done years ago.
You hear the odd interesting track, but.....
The same goes for other niche genres like mainstream Metal.
Go to one of their gigs and it's mostly people reliving their youth.
Two guitars, bass guitar and enourmo drumkit, tight leather pants and nordic imagery has all been done to death.
Old 31st July 2008
  #34
Quote:
Originally Posted by keybdwizrd View Post
Maybe it's just me, but I have a hard time thinking of beatport or the music there as mainstream, as I can only guess, but imagine that that music is listened to by a tiny fraction of one percent of the people in the US.

Yes sorry I was not clear. I meant "dance" mainstream, here in europe there is dance music in the top40 and on tv. Dance never broke in the states, its too faceless, there's no (major) celebrity to sell, the major US media never liked it cause I guess gangsta rappers are more marketable! Specifically I quess what I meant was that Beatport is the most well known, first port of call for all aspiring dj's. So you've got a situation where all the new producers are basically coping the same 4-5 big names/styles, using the same sample cds, then all the aspiring dj's are buying said same tracks, to play them that night in an Ableton set where every track is beatmatched to perfection and never changes from 129bpm! Now that is booooring. And if you think electrohouse is bad, personally I've just about had it up to here with fidgethouse too : )

In the city I live in (1mil pop) dance music is still pretty popular, I'd say club wise about 20% are dance venues of which 70% play underground tunes, thats not too bad in my book. Consider that we don't really have a hip-hop scene though, the rest of the venues are top40, rock and traditional irish music. The people I associate and play with range in age from 19 to 36 and all are very passionate about dance music.
Old 31st July 2008
  #35
Gear Maniac
 
Absent1's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by msl View Post
. And if you think electrohouse is bad, personally I've just about had it up to here with fidgethouse too : )

Fidgethouse!!!~

Post an artist please, it probably will not be my cup of tea but I love the name.

Like a meth maggot that has been up for days and fluffy trance will just not satisfy.

Rob
Old 31st July 2008
  #36
Quote:
Originally Posted by DivineChemical View Post
After reading that, I suddenly want to move to Ireland.
pros and cons everywhere man! like our industrial/metal scene is worse than non existent, and if your a goth forget it ; )

but yes the djs and producers here have a lot of passion for the music, you have to cause there's no real money to be made! There's been a kind of new wave here of producers coming out in the last two years, no ones really broken through to the rest of europe big time yet, thats what were all waiting for. This is in a country that 10 years ago only had maybe 2-3 dance producers. Its hard when its a small scene and city not enough new interaction and influences, thats why london and berlin or paris are so great for dance music. Of course the simple answer would be that we like dance music cause we're Irish and we love to party!
Old 31st July 2008
  #37
Quote:
Originally Posted by Absent1 View Post
Fidgethouse!!!~

Post an artist please, it probably will not be my cup of tea but I love the name.

Like a meth maggot that has been up for days and fluffy trance will just not satisfy.

Rob
ha ha thats funny!
imo Switch and Herve are the big names/originators...
these days anything on Potty Mouth

he doesn't have his good stuff on his profile, you'll have to goto beatport for that!!!
MySpace.com - Switch - UK - Club / Hip Hop / House - www.myspace.com/switchandsolidgroove

MySpace.com - Duke Dumont - sometimes London, UK - Techno / Trip Hop - www.myspace.com/dukedumont

MySpace.com - CROOKERS - IT - House / Crunk / Ghettotech - www.myspace.com/crookers

MySpace.com - Potty Mouth Music - CHICAGO, US - House / Electro / Techno - www.myspace.com/pottymouthbeats
Old 31st July 2008
  #38
seizurehouse, I'd copyright that one now!
Old 31st July 2008
  #39
Gear Maniac
 
Absent1's Avatar
 

I am liking some of that Potty Mouth stuff.

Those incorporate all the glitchy and compression tricks that everyone is always asking about on here.

Very "Sound Of Today" going on.. Kinda reminds me of some of Uberzones earlier stuff but not as heavy on the breaks.

Thanks for posting,,
Rob
Old 31st July 2008
  #40
your welcome rob, there ain't no party without the people!
Old 31st July 2008
  #41
Gear Nut
 
DGTom's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Architecture View Post
And I think the other thing is, we need to leave the 4x4 stuff behind, we've exhausted that. Maybe the key is to start trying odd time structures, experimenting with the actual song writing process as well.
While I agree that actual song writing needs to be brought back to the fore* I think the idea that 4x4 being exhausted is absurd, I would like people to switch the quantize OFF... like, NOW!!!!! Everything being so rigid is what makes things dull, and whole number tempos.

I use ableton, but, I have the master tempo mapped to a knob on my controller, just because the software defaults to xxx.0 doesn't make it gospel

4x4 + 120(ish)bpm is inside of us all. I was recentally warping some field recordings of traditional African music and was amazed that piece after piece was almost bang on 120bpm. These were 30yr old recordings of much, much older songs, so i think that tempo goes mucher deeper than disco

*I think the track based approach is relevant and is still throwing up great ideas... perhaps not in the top 100 of beatport still...

Edit: I think Fidgit is gettin abit dry now as well, but one of the great side-effects is that its generated more interest in older jacking Chicago stuff, helping Dancemania sell there re-issues etc.
Its crazy how quik things homogenize, crookers are a great example; guys start out trying to make electro house, don't get it quite right & anyway their true love is really rap & hip-hop (one of them was a rapper 1st) and then spawn the knock offs
Some of it is still good, but I hate the whole '1 sound all night' scene - I dont care what 'sound' it is, all this genre rigid/specific stuff needs to be left behind.

Last edited by DGTom; 31st July 2008 at 06:34 AM.. Reason: missed an 's'
Old 31st July 2008
  #42
Gear Nut
 
DGTom's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by DivineChemical View Post
...he also said in there that the big bang was Gawd pounding on a giant drum though, so I don't know how seriously you can really take this guy. Interesting theories, though.
loooool, well yh... I love it how those theories always start out resonable, then take a u-turn @ 100mph...

I'm not on those PLUR psy-trance ones, but I think if its worked for a few thousand years, then, there is prob some mileage left in the old gal yet!
Old 31st July 2008
  #43
That was probably Dead drummer Mickey Hart.
I think a normal resting heart rate is 60bpm, so as a subdivision 120bpm feels comforting and natural to us. It is the rhythm of our body.
Most dance music is way above 120 these days though.
Old 31st July 2008
  #44
Gear Nut
 
DGTom's Avatar
 

very true, the default for mnml etc is around 127 & Fidgit is 130 & most stuff gets pitched up in the clubs for all the un-natural, far from resting heart rates inside, but, club rap and alot of new school dancehall is around 120 ( +/- 5 or so bpms) at the moment, as always depends what club your in.

Back on topic tho (sorry o.p.) I don't agree with the idea that everything is boring, far from it, but I dont go anywhere near beatport At the moment I'm all about Tropical House & Trancehall!!!!!!!!
Old 31st July 2008
  #45
Quote:
Originally Posted by DGTom View Post
Some of it is still good, but I hate the whole '1 sound all night' scene - I dont care what 'sound' it is, all this genre rigid/specific stuff needs to be left behind.
very true, this is where much of the problem begins...

120 is a magical bpm, yes related to heartbeat, but also to our ancient past in some way. many well known theories about how dance music is connected and relates to ancient tribal drumming, something thats still in our dna after millennia of evolution. The bang of the slave masters drum on the roman galley, etc. Personally I think all rhythm can put you into a trance like state if you're so inclined. "music is hypnotizing" dance music more so because of its repetitive nature.


alright DGTom so trancehall it is then, link please!
Old 31st July 2008
  #46
Gear Head
 

Check this band, retro style, beautiful music.....

BLACK MOTH SUPER RAINBOW
Old 31st July 2008
  #47
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryan Talbot View Post
The answer is in your second sentence above. I'm not against repetition at all, and fully embrace the ethos behind it. I have an issue with stuff where things seem to repeat for the sake of repetition, and the piece doesn't take me somewhere.

An example of what I'm talking about will have chord progressions and some semblance of an arrangement, some melody or something that captivates the listener...then you realize the bass stays in the same key throughout, essentially repeating itself.
+1 hip Hop is the same way...I herd a new song yesterday by a big producer..OMG this guitar sample looped over and over through the whole song...kind of anoying!!
Old 31st July 2008
  #48
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lowkey's Avatar
 

i saw SuperMayer play about 3 months ago [Michael Mayer boss of Kompakt label and Superpitcher]. The music they played was great. Maybe checkout some of the Kompakt releases. Much more feeling than minimal imo.

i think there is alot of great music out there. its just that with so much being released it can be hard to know where to look. electronic music has moved from being a fringe music to being mainstream. the mainstream ALWAYS produces alot of crap...the good is still in there though

i think there has been alot of development over the last 5 years or so:- Electro-house emerged and took over the airwaves, minimal came and took over the clubs. theres still plenty of great house, detroit and techno. i havent been keeping up with drum and bass but listened to alot of it in the early 90's when jungle and then drum and bass emerged...havent heard much dub-step, but thats pretty new too.
Old 31st July 2008
  #49
Gear Nut
 
DGTom's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by msl View Post
alright DGTom so trancehall it is then, link please!


This is not gonna be everyones cup of tea, very niche!

#1 Vocalist at the moment would have to be Ricky Blaze, perhaps not technically the best mic man to come out of JA, but he hops on some krazy riddims!




Stephen "DJ Genius" McGregors' 'Warbridge' riddim is a 160bpm banger, this kid is only 18(!!!) and drops massive tune after massive tune, has single handed altered the sound of Dancehall in recent times.

There are others like Vinyl Shotz 'Russian Riddim' in a similar vein, basically Dancehall beats with big 'euro' synths leading the way, a close relation of Trance-Rap in the US like Jackie Chains 'Rollin' (which samples Robert Miles 'Children') & Wiz Khalifas 'Say Yeah'



On a similar tip is Lil' Jon vocalling the 'Calabria' beat & DJ Laz remaking 'Satisfaction' as a Miami Bass infused rap tune.



This next one is not Trance related at all, but would fall under the wider 'Tropical House' tag IMO, some wonky Kwaito outta Pretoria, South Africa, soon to be released thru WARP records in the UK... and another label in the US that I cannot for the life of me remember at the moment.



Old 31st July 2008
  #50
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crufty's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
Go to one of their gigs and it's mostly people reliving their youth.
owww! it hurts because its true

First time I heard jungle slash D&B I was in san fran at a party. Most of the party was the (a)typical rave atmosphere...but off in the corner, down this hallway up these stairs, existed another world. It was a tall, two story open room painted completely red. Inside was a lone dj and snare/hi-hat set. Some cat spinning and some dude adding a live feel. It was relatively empty, esp when compared to the rest of the party. What was remarkable was the style of dance--seemed like it was almost spanish in nature--completely different from the intricate "liquid" hand motions and foot work associated with (what I would call then) trance. It was all kicking and stepping, hands on hip, almost no arm movement. Even the people we're dressed differently...not the zany rave style (whistles, painter hats and body paint if you know what i mean), but almost semi-formal. Dudes in shirts & ties, gals in pant suits. Never heard the music before, and never saw it presented that way since.

Anyway, enough crummy nostalgia.

I too am digging some of the potty mouth records. Very nice.

I don't suppose there is a compilation cd that can be found? Or is beatport it?
Old 31st July 2008
  #51
yeah not really my cupa but thanks for posting. bit too cheesy. its basically updated dancehall with eurotrance sounds. I do like a lot of the classic dancehall styles and at the right party it goes down a treat, the other S African tune though is much more interesting, I can see something happening there... even though past its hype period I'm still liking a lot of Baile Funk too.

Michael Mayer is the man. check out Closer Music too.
Old 1st August 2008
  #52
Gear Nut
 
DGTom's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by msl View Post
yeah not really my cupa but thanks for posting. bit too cheesy. its basically updated dancehall with eurotrance sounds. I do like a lot of the classic dancehall styles and at the right party it goes down a treat, the other S African tune though is much more interesting, I can see something happening there... even though past its hype period I'm still liking a lot of Baile Funk too.

Michael Mayer is the man. check out Closer Music too.
See, to me alot of the Michael Mayer/Kompakt stuff is cheesy, 'SuperMayer' is super cheesy, I'm sure I saw a photo in the press involving underwear on the outside of clothes, but, the world don't move to the beat of just one drum!

The crazy thing about the DJ Mujava tune is it came out in 2006 & is only now getting some attention! Other names to look out for in the African House scene are Dr. Duda and Dr. M Bee, DJ Cleo, Mgarimbe. Further north in Angola is whole 'nother level! DJ Znobia, Puto Prada, DJ Jesus. Tons of guys with dodgy PCs knocking out bass heavy carnival bangers!

And don't get me started of Soca!!!


Theres a world of Dance/Club, always new permutations & misinterpretations emerging. As many have already noted, don't use the 'mainstream' as a yardstick for how good the music can be, perhaps use it to guage how normal it has become & how safe and uninspirig it can be!
Old 1st August 2008
  #53
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dlmorley's Avatar
I think in all styles you get 95% crap, it's just these days ANYONE can have their "tracks" online and available.
Just like everyone with photoshop is suddenly a graphic designer.

It's still out there but maybe you are looking in the wrong places...
Old 1st August 2008
  #54
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Dom & Roland's Avatar
The most creative and more interesting producers are probably also the least business minded ,and find it less easy to move with the times. I personally have been putting my music out on vinyl for 15 years now, and it took me a long time to admit that uploading my content to a 'peu eugh yuk' mp3 site was worthwhile. Although with my music now selling from my own site , itunes and beatport it certainly is. I am definately not commercial either but have been lucky enough to make a living from my music since i started, even though it might be harder these days with the current tidal wave of money-seeking badly made rubbish drowning out the good stuff.

_______________
DRP
Old 1st August 2008
  #55
Quote:
Originally Posted by DGTom View Post
See, to me alot of the Michael Mayer/Kompakt stuff is cheesy, 'SuperMayer' is super cheesy, I'm sure I saw a photo in the press involving underwear on the outside of clothes, but, the world don't move to the beat of just one drum!

The crazy thing about the DJ Mujava tune is it came out in 2006 & is only now getting some attention! Other names to look out for in the African House scene are Dr. Duda and Dr. M Bee, DJ Cleo, Mgarimbe. Further north in Angola is whole 'nother level! DJ Znobia, Puto Prada, DJ Jesus. Tons of guys with dodgy PCs knocking out bass heavy carnival bangers!
Yeah I love that whole "dodgy pc's" approach, just like Baile Funk, and a lot of the records I love form the last 25 years. Minimal equipment, restricted options, better songs many times! To clarify I don't like Supermayer either, it is cheesy, and I've stopped really listening to kompakt since '05 however imo before that they did output a lot of good stuff though. One of my all time favorite records is Closer Musik "You don't know me", which I think came out in 2000, it was Matias Aguayo's band and really ahead of themselves. Give it a listen.

KOMPAKT-MP3
Old 3rd August 2008
  #56
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dom & Roland View Post
...but have been lucky enough to make a living from my music since i started...
Major big-time congrats on that.
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