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How to make Kicks? Virtual Instrument Plugins
Old 4th September 2007
  #1
Here for the gear
 

How to make Kicks?

im not sure if this ever happened in this forum but my question is for those who know how to make a chesty sounding kick

what i do is i modulate 2 sine waves one higher in octave than the other i try to compress the beginning by pitch shifting it... anyways when i get the final result i try to add an attack element and maybe hp real drum for the midrange anyways results been sounding quite bad i cant seem to figure out how to make that chesty sounding kick but still keep the sub audible .. anyways if anyone has any suggestions i'd greatly appreciate it!
Old 4th September 2007
  #2
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waveterm's Avatar
 

Uhm......you´ve lost me......

Maybe an audioexample of how you´d like it to sound.

WT
Old 4th September 2007
  #3
Gear Maniac
 

use a combination of 3 kicks layered... one for boom, one for knock, and one for tick. align for phase coherency. if you have to do too much processing to achieve the sound you're after, it's likely you're not starting out with the right sounds to begin with.
Old 5th September 2007
  #4
Gear Nut
 
lazzaro's Avatar
 

Good reading material

Good ideas concisely described here:

DIFFERENT DRUMS

Or, for a lengthier take on the topic:

SYNTH SECRETS Bass Drums in Practice

Which will probably be easier to follow once you read:

SYNTH SECRETS Bass Drums in Theory

Good luck!
Old 5th September 2007
  #5
Gear Maniac
 

Dumb question but how do you align for phase coherency?

Cheers
Krisstoff
Old 5th September 2007
  #6
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jonnypowell's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by krisstoff View Post
Dumb question but how do you align for phase coherency?

Cheers
Krisstoff
Yeah - I also want to know how to do this? Is it a visual thing. or inverting?
Old 5th September 2007
  #7
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octatonic's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonnypowell View Post
Yeah - I also want to know how to do this? Is it a visual thing. or inverting?
Just line them up manually.
In Logic, align all three kicks on successive tracks (when rendered as audio)
Select all 3 kicks and hit the 'z' key (to zoom) and you can then align them individually- you can fine drag them by holding cntrl and shift while you move them.
Old 5th September 2007
  #8
Here for the gear
 

thank you all very much for the great response i'll try to put up a link to the sound im trying to achieve maybe you'll be able to guide me further but anyways thanks again MUCH !!!!
Old 5th September 2007
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sourcekode View Post
use a combination of 3 kicks layered... one for boom, one for knock, and one for tick. align for phase coherency. if you have to do too much processing to achieve the sound you're after, it's likely you're not starting out with the right sounds to begin with.
yeah i see what you mean and thats what i've been doing for a while somehow i feel like im cheating and like to know how to make kicks from scratch
Old 5th September 2007
  #10
Gear Maniac
from scratch as in from a synth instead of sample based?
Old 5th September 2007
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alchey View Post
from scratch as in from a synth instead of sample based?
well from scrathc both ways i use a sine wave with whatever pitch i need for the bottom and i ussually use maybe like one of the tr909 for the attack part and a real kick for the mids except im not getting very chesty sound im getting more of a flat almost like sound. i've read somewhere that for dance music your kicks should have a chesty sound. i've looked at some kicks on spectrum analyzer and a lot of them have a sub part and a part around 100-200 hz so im assuming using 2 waves octave apart... any thought on any of this
Old 5th September 2007
  #12
Gear Maniac
 

it's going to be hard to get the knock (chesty part) with a sine wav alone.
Old 5th September 2007
  #13
Gear Maniac
 

one other thing you could try is to take a sample of a kick that you really like and create a 4 beat loop. setup your sequencer so that you have an 8 beat loop going. the 1st 4 beats is for your kick, the 2nd is for the sampled kick. play the whole 8 beat loop which will keep bouncing back and forth between 4 beats of your kick and 4 of the sampled kick. you'll be able to hear what's missing and adjust accordingly.
Old 5th September 2007
  #14
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Tibbon's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by sourcekode View Post
it's going to be hard to get the knock (chesty part) with a sine wav alone.
You clearly don't have a Moog filter.
Old 6th September 2007
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tibbon View Post
You clearly don't have a Moog filter.
I do have moog fitlers on my virus ti but this is the kind of sound im trying to go for if anyone has any suggestions i'd appreciate it.

I do cross refference with the kicks that i like and it's driving me mad sitting in front of the computer for hours and not being able to figure it out...
here's the links to those kicks
this is first one
Send big files the easy way. Files too large for email attachments? No problem!
this is the second one
Send big files the easy way. Files too large for email attachments? No problem!
Old 6th September 2007
  #16
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Tibbon's Avatar
Your Virus has no Moog filters (unless there's some high-beta transistors in there that I don't see) regardless of what the packaging says. It might have some 4-pole filters, but they ain't moog.

I can get a pretty beefy kick without oscilators even just by setting a sharp attack, high resonance, and have the filter ADSR route to the filter. Good enough that the neighbors get pissed.
Old 6th September 2007
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Misha View Post
I do have moog fitlers on my virus ti but this is the kind of sound im trying to go for if anyone has any suggestions i'd appreciate it.

I do cross refference with the kicks that i like and it's driving me mad sitting in front of the computer for hours and not being able to figure it out...
here's the links to those kicks
this is first one
Send big files the easy way. Files too large for email attachments? No problem!
this is the second one
Send big files the easy way. Files too large for email attachments? No problem!
any more ideas on any of this?
Old 6th September 2007
  #18
Gear Maniac
I'll have to check your samples when I get home, but I can get some pretty cool drum sounds out of my virus b when I set the filter envelope with a quick attack, gives it that 'clicky' sound. Also, try cranking the FM on OSC2 and set the mode FM to either POSTriangle or NOISE... setting it to shaper can get some pretty cool sounds too.

As far as making Kicks from scratch, I find that unless you're making some sort of trance or minimal techno/electro that layering samples works best. Even if you wind up making your own kick, sampling that and throwing it into battery or whatever you use for drum programming. I do the same thing with my snare sounds to get them sounding meaty. layer and compress!

D
Old 6th September 2007
  #19
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
You clearly don't have a Moog filter.
this is true

would you mind posting an example of what can be achieved with one? i'm thinking of getting a voyager.
Old 7th September 2007
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sourcekode View Post
this is true

would you mind posting an example of what can be achieved with one? i'm thinking of getting a voyager.
yeah my virus ti doenst actually have moog filters but it has a digital reproduction of what supposed to be like moog filters...

if someone can listen to the samples and let me know how can i achieve taht kind of sound i'd really appreciate that!
Old 7th September 2007
  #21
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cynic one's Avatar
 

how about one of these:



......or one of these?

Old 7th September 2007
  #22
Gear Addict
 

waldorf attack programming drum sounds

waldorf attack has a verry nice .pdf about how 808 and 909 sounds were made, and how they re-created them

waldorf attack programming drum sounds

once i made a super nice kick with my ex- juno-60 it sounded like low toms but punchier, had a deep sub sound, but played with higher notes sounded like a super nice toms, way better than the borring 909 toms

i dream some day tal uno-60 makes a juno-60 cassett translator to .fxb or .fxp

i still have two great juno-60 patches casset dump/backups in .wav
some day...
also with my ex-tb-303 made a nice drum sound once,
sadly i forgot how
Attached Files
File Type: zip attackdrumsounds.zip (214.4 KB, 189 views)
Old 7th September 2007
  #23
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cynic one's Avatar
 

actually i like attack too. although i only have an older version, not the updated one. i should upgrade.

but on the CPU if i feel like going for a synthy drum sound this is my weapon at the moment.

Old 7th September 2007
  #24
Gear Addict
 

thers a million drum synths in kvraudio.com
im downloading all, and try them latter

kikaxxe wayoutware, etc...
AudioRealism Drum Machine (ADM)
Old 7th September 2007
  #25
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Beermaster's Avatar
 

Sound ON Sound - Synth Secrets has the a complete breakdown and re-construction of a lot of the classic sounds.

My little trick that works best with a Roland S760 but should also work with hardware is to make use of Highpass Filters ! ( I know that sounds nuts but bare with me )- for the chesty sound you're looking for you could try using a bit of Noise for a basic waveform then put it through the highpass filter - remembering that the resonance on a Highpass filter acts on the lower cutoff point you can sweep up from the bottom of the harmonic content and focus in on the range you need ( with a snappy EG modulating the VCA ) S760s Rule the roost for this trick - you can make HUGE bass drums with its filters

Just a thought.
Old 10th September 2007
  #26
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Daniel Antix's Avatar
ok here's some simple steps to make your typical psy trance kick

1. generate a 100hz signwave tone for 1 second (in soundforge, adobe etc)

2. select all and select pitch bend

3. set pitch bend range to 36 semitones (in adobe you can do this in soundforge i thin kyou can only do 1 oct at a time... just do multiple processes)

4. I pitch bend the 1st 30% of the waveform from top to bottom and leave the last 70% at -36

5. cut the waveform short where you stop hearing it and fade it out

do these steps over if you wish, change the wave forms, the modulators the freq's you use etc to achive different sounds... even layer sound upon sound.

have fun, i some times spend hours making kicks for the hell of it! good entertainment while bored at work.
Old 12th September 2007
  #27
Here for the gear
 

Don't forget to throw a limiter on the end of your chain.
Old 13th September 2007
  #28
Gear Maniac
 
Tom VDH's Avatar
 

I've been pretty successful with Kicks lately using Ultra beat in Logic.
It's an analog drum synthesizer. It's a bit tricky to use at first, but when you find the right combination of settings and plug-ins (Eqs, etc...), it works terrific.

I used to work with a Jomox, but I've mostly stopped using it since Ultrabeat entered the game. It's especially great if you're looking for very accurate drum tunings.
Besides tuning the kick to the key of the track, you can also finetune its attack and release in ways often not always possible with Hardware. The advantage here is to be able to fine tune the kick as your track progresses.

It's got 2 Osc, and often use the 2, but I always have a 2nd channel in combination with UB with a sound replacer on it to layer hi-passed stuffed on top of the UB kick for "Attack".

Again it gives you great flexibility at mixdown.

My 0,02.....Cheers,
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