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Production Quality
Old 26th November 2020
  #1
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Production Quality

How many beats do you have to make(deliberately of course) approximately to be assured that it's good enough quality?
Old 26th November 2020
  #2
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One.
Old 26th November 2020 | Show parent
  #3
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Jamie munro's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mutantt View Post
One.
nice and i hate to do this to ya brother but:




i know before i hit the power button
Old 27th November 2020
  #4
I don't understand the question so I'm trying to understand whether there's a question behind this question. Is it even a real question? I have questions ...
Old 27th November 2020
  #5
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🎧 5 years
What if it's an ambient track - do I still need beats so it's still good enough quality?
Old 27th November 2020 | Show parent
  #6
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Muser's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
I'll take a stab at somewhere between a bakers dozen and ten thousand.
Old 27th November 2020
  #7
Gear Nut
I don't know about deliberate but the amount of accidental beats is exactly 47
Old 27th November 2020
  #8
Gear Addict
 
Pythonis Rogue's Avatar
If I beat it a few times, quality material flows naturally.
Old 27th November 2020
  #9
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Bignatius's Avatar
42
Old 27th November 2020
  #10
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Cake's Avatar
 
Old 27th November 2020
  #11
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A better way to put it is "How many beats should you make before releasing to public?"
Old 27th November 2020 | Show parent
  #12
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dopie View Post
A better way to put it is "How many beats should you make before releasing to public?"
Awrighty, let me try to help you out here. What do you mean by "beats"? Are we talking about backing tracks for Hip Hop or RnB stylists here specifically? Look .. I'm going to assume that's the case, but really it doesn't matter.

We're talking about releasing music commercially, or for other people to enjoy or to increase your reputation yeah? And the last thing you want to do is release crap that will destroy your reputation before you start, so let's assume that this is what we really want - we want the first stuff people hear from us to be "hell yeah" and not "nooooo ... not good ... noooo".

So you need to do three things and none of them are about making a certain number of beats. There is no magic number. This is about artistic creativity, technical skill and trust in your own judgement.

First up you need to learn what is 'good' in your genre. You need to be sure you know it when you hear it. You need to know when it isn't and need to be able to hear problems. Talk with your music friends about other people's tracks and listen critically together. Learning to LISTEN is key. Build your confidence so that you KNOW when something is cooking and when it's dross. By then you will have a list of killer tracks with killer mixes. All you need to do is compare your stuff to those and if it stands up you are ready.

You also need to work on your connections and find people you trust enough to run ideas by them. Not sycophants. Not clueless yokels. Other people who are serious about making and listening to music just like you are. Then learn to trust each other. Maybe collaborate or whatever. Eventually you will know some people who you can ask an honest opinion of - and they will give you one that matters. They can tell what's great, what doesn't work and if they have some chops of their own they can communicate what might fix it or take it to the next level. When you are putting track after track to these people and they are digging it and either running out of things to say or really scraping hard to pick faults, you know you're good.

The third thing is to build confidence and then learn to trust yourself. Trust your taste. Trust your production quality. Trust your ears. And build the inner resilience to keep on keeping at it when the haters hate, cos some will .. but your taste is better than theirs by this point, so you know to ignore them.

Does that help?
Old 27th November 2020 | Show parent
  #13
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Acid Mitch's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dopie View Post
A better way to put it is "How many beats should you make before releasing to public?"
To get the answer you have to multiply the length of a piece of string by the number of notes in a tune and then subtract the amount of angels that can dance on a pin head.

There is a theory that it takes around 10,000 hours of practice to become good at something.
If you put in 20 hours a week it should take about 10 years.

Last edited by Acid Mitch; 27th November 2020 at 04:27 PM..
Old 27th November 2020 | Show parent
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dopie View Post
A better way to put it is "How many beats should you make before releasing to public?"
What the heck does that even mean? Beats? You mean selling samples? Or a complete song?

That depends on the style of the music, some styles are more complex than others. The best way is to:

- Learn to play an instrument.
- Analyze your favorite songs.
- Try to reproduce your favorite songs all from scratch.
- Try to figure out how others have done X (like an effect).

Like the other user said you need to be very confident especially if you're asking for feedback. Ignore all the positive feedback and focus on the negative feedback, don't get upset when someone doesn't like your track that will happen. If you act like a madman when someone doesn't like your track they will troll you but it will also make you foolish. You need HONEST feedback, many people will tell you that something is nice even when they don't like it, they said this because they don't want to hurt your feelings. But thats dangerous because many people will really believe that bullsh!t.

There isn't really a magical number but you should always try to compare your work with the work of a professional.

Many new guys fail with the mixing stage. If you get all the audio volumes of all the instruments at the right level from the beginning then the mixing stage will be very easy. The main lead should be near 0db (aka just touching the red hint hint), the bassline should be there but it shouldn't dominate, it shouldn't be louder than the leads. The rest should follow.

Focus more on the composition than effects. Seems like many kids nowadays think it's cool to use tons of effects and compression while the composition of their song is very bad. Effects won't improve the composition, even if the composition is great and the effects suck the song will still sound good.

Going to be honest with you. If you;re talking about selling beats as in selling them then I would suggest you to do something else with your time. Those professional producers produce their own beats.
Old 27th November 2020 | Show parent
  #15
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Yeah! Totally Thanks! and that is what i mean't by 'beats'.
Old 27th November 2020 | Show parent
  #16
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Hey thanks man Appreciated! nah i'm pretty seasoned and i think of effects(reverb, etc.) as more apart of sound designing rather then just the aspect mixing(where i focus on balance and space of course).👍
Old 27th November 2020
  #17
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conanb's Avatar
The more the better
Old 27th November 2020
  #18
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signalpudding's Avatar
 
People acting super confused in this thread.

In the hip hop world people will really dedicate themselves to always making like 10 beats a day. By beats they almost always mean a flipped sample, drums, and maybe a couple other elements. Enough to get a good groove you can loop and walk around and rock out to. I do exactly the same thing with electronic music in general. I do exactly the same thing with songwriting on an acoustic guitar. Come up with a number of chord changes and melodies, record lots of bits in Photo Booth or a cassette. I do it for scoring work as well, write a bunch of thematic ideas or sound ideas at once and then leave them for a bit.

Then, in every one of these situations, you listen through to a bunch of stuff and hope you find some ideas that really stand out. This is something people have done forever in music. Keith Richards even tells a story of finding the riff for Satisfaction or something on a tape and going "oh wow, this one's good, let's turn this into a song." It's a story I've heard a million times.

This isn't the only way to make music but it's real common and isn't nearly as weird of a question as people are making it out to be.
Old 27th November 2020 | Show parent
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by signalpudding View Post
isn't nearly as weird of a question as people are making it out to be.
It is weird though.
The idea that the quality of anything you make depends only on the quantity you made.

Literally your first creation can possibly be super high quality if you put enough time, emotion and attention in creating it.
Or you can spit out the "beats" like a machine gun and they will be crap even if you made 10000.
Old 27th November 2020
  #20
Gear Addict
 
I like to "throw s**t at the wall" and sleep on what I've got recorded, then if I still like a few of the beats in a variety of moods or find myself humming my own stuff I know it's probably "good enough". The rest of the chaff is just how you get there, but sometimes there's good ideas in there that you can expand upon.

I see what OP is saying; you need to hammer out a lot of ideas to see what stands alone, what could work with a timbre tweak but the same chord progression, different tempo, etc.

As far as quantity goes? I'd make sure to have enough material to last an easy half-hour set or an EP, that way you actually have a solid portfolio you can demo!

Last edited by thehighesttree; 27th November 2020 at 04:39 PM.. Reason: The initial idea of my post needed to be built upon...
Old 27th November 2020 | Show parent
  #21
Gear Addict
 
signalpudding's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mutantt View Post
It is weird though.
The idea that the quality of anything you make depends only on the quantity you made.

Literally your first creation can possibly be super high quality if you put enough time, emotion and attention in creating it.
Or you can spit out the "beats" like a machine gun and they will be crap even if you made 10000.
Sure, you could hit on a good idea right away, but putting in more time or emotion or attention is no guarantee that something will be good.

Songwriters say all the time about great songs that "this song just kind of came out right away and was done" so there goes the time = quality part. Or for a specific story, "Sledgehammer" by Peter Gabriel was proposed after he thought the album was finished and he supposedly showed it saying "here is something I thought might be cool for the next album" but then they recorded it in a day and it made the album and was huge.

And of course making a ton of stuff also doesn't mean that any of it will be good. But it is absolutely not uncommon for people to work the way that's being discussed here. It is a really normal way of doing things. Composers will send in a hundred cues for a score and a couple will get used, it's absolutely common. Hip hop producers will show up to a session with 100 beats and 1 will hit and get turned into a full track. Absolutely not a weird way to work.
Old 27th November 2020 | Show parent
  #22
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by thehighesttree View Post
I like to "throw s**t at the wall" and sleep on what I've got recorded, then if I still like a few of the beats in a variety of moods or find myself humming my own stuff I know it's probably "good enough". The rest of the chaff is just how you get there, but sometimes there's good ideas in there that you can expand upon.

I see what OP is saying; you need to hammer out a lot of ideas to see what stands alone, what could work with a timbre tweak but the same chord progression, different tempo, etc.

As far as quantity goes? I'd make sure to have enough material to last an easy half-hour set or an EP, that way you actually have a solid portfolio you can demo!
With ideas it goes like this, you want X but you get Y and you end up with Z.

Quote:
Originally Posted by signalpudding View Post
Sure, you could hit on a good idea right away, but putting in more time or emotion or attention is no guarantee that something will be good.

Songwriters say all the time about great songs that "this song just kind of came out right away and was done" so there goes the time = quality part. Or for a specific story, "Sledgehammer" by Peter Gabriel was proposed after he thought the album was finished and he supposedly showed it saying "here is something I thought might be cool for the next album" but then they recorded it in a day and it made the album and was huge.

And of course making a ton of stuff also doesn't mean that any of it will be good. But it is absolutely not uncommon for people to work the way that's being discussed here. It is a really normal way of doing things. Composers will send in a hundred cues for a score and a couple will get used, it's absolutely common. Hip hop producers will show up to a session with 100 beats and 1 will hit and get turned into a full track. Absolutely not a weird way to work.
If you have the mindset of more is better then you'll get quantity over quality. Sometimes you shouldn't rush, often I spend so many hours nonstop on a song till I get so tired. When I continue the next day or a couple days later I notice all the flaws which I have missed. It's good to take breaks from your work and do something else.
Old 27th November 2020 | Show parent
  #23
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I don't think anyone got that out of their 1st or even 2nd beat, just sayin.
Old 27th November 2020 | Show parent
  #24
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I measure the quality of the beat by how much i can move to it and how good i feel when doing it, Haha!
Old 27th November 2020 | Show parent
  #25
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Yeah man i agree lol. I think i asked a pretty simple question.
Old 27th November 2020 | Show parent
  #26
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Cake's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by thehighesttree View Post
I like to "throw s**t at the wall"
That's why I was thrown out of the last place, there was nothing in contract specifically prohibiting this, but apparently it's "unacceptable", if it was so 'unacceptable' why not mention it in the contract ? Some people just don't like free thinkers like me.
Old 27th November 2020 | Show parent
  #27
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Cake's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dopie View Post
I measure the quality of the beat by how much i can move to it and how good i feel when doing it, Haha!
The problem here is that when people are starting out they will move to anything they've made - I remember stringing a bass line, drums and two chords together and I thought I was Quincy-motherf*cking-Jones, I thought it was the best thing I'd ever heard . . . . it really wasn't any good, I mean really not good. Listening back to stuff like that now, it sounds like it was made by a violently insane horse who had escaped from a secured home for violently insane horses, shot his way into a studio, and taken the engineer hostage, before loading up on crack, making a track and then beating the engineer to death with his hooves.
Old 27th November 2020
  #28
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jm2c's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dopie View Post
How many beats do you have to make(deliberately of course) approximately to be assured that it's good enough quality?
when you stop counting how many you've made you're ready
Old 27th November 2020 | Show parent
  #29
Here for the gear
 
Also true yes, fortunately for me i have a best friend who's been completely honest with me even during that phase which i totally untill my ears developed further as i've gained more practice overtime i guest. Now i get more positive reaction from audiences of course. I think that the over-confidence might have played an important part in this maybe.
Old 27th November 2020
  #30
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xanderbeanz's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
I tended to quantify how good my music was, and how much it was improving based upon:

- Harmonic eloquence (Clever use of harmony, done in a subtle way so the audience doesn’t know its being fed art, because art doesn’t sell now. We have to do the equivalent of sneaking vegetables into a child’s meal)
- The quality of the mix (not too dull or muddy compared to noted mixes in my genres of study)
- The ability to take a concept or emotion and really sell it. If it’s painful, try and make that pain heard, if it’s joyful, let it sound so.

I’m going to say that about 5 years before I truly cracked it, people were already calling me a musical genius pretty constantly, but I still hadn’t quite reached my A game. Pretty much there now. Did some mixes recently that weren’t bassy enough due to a poor temporary monitoring situation, but these can be sorted easily enough now my studio is properly set up.
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