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Which? €1600 budget = [P'08 Rev2 16 voice] vs [2x P'08 Rev2 8 voice] vs [P'08 Rev2 8 + ???] vs [???]
Old 26th October 2020
  #1
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Simonator's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Which? €1600 budget = [P'08 Rev2 16 voice] vs [2x P'08 Rev2 8 voice] vs [P'08 Rev2 8 + ???] vs [???]

I have an approximately €1600 budget to spent on what will be my main analog polysynth. Desktop module(s) preferred over keys, but not a total deal-breaker to have keys.
I'm already satisfied with my monosynths / digital synths / samplers / etc... So I'm only looking here for analog poly.

I've been strongly leaning towards the P'08 16 voice. I intend to use a lot of patches (ie the Psalm37 libraries) which utilise the second layer (4 oscs per voice), so that brings the 16 back down to 8 voice polyphony.

Frustratingly though, since the 8 voice is wayyy more common, there is less scarcity in the used market. So while a 16 tends to be around €1500, I've seen the 8 frequently go for €750 - €800.
Intuitively, it would therefore seem to make more sense to go for 2x 8 voice. However, annoyingly, DSI have not implemented their poly chain functionality into the Rev2 (which was present in Rev1) - arguing it's not necessary since you can upgrade an 8 to a 16 by purchasing a voice extension card - but that costs €700 and, again, it would seem to make more sense to add another €50 to buy a second complete 8 voice synth, second hand.

I could use a third party device to share voices among 2x Rev2 8 voice, or simply separate out my chord notes over 2x MIDI tracks in my DAW... Though that's obviously not quite as elegant as having a 16, at times when I do need all that polyphony.

On the other hand, for when using less polyphony, it would be nicer to have hands-on control of all knobs on 2 totally separate timbres (as opposed to having to edit 2x layers with one set of knobs on the 16 voice).

So, I'm writing to ask your advice. Has anyone else been through the same dilemma and what did you choose?

As I see it, I have 4 different main options:

1) [P'08 Rev2 16 voice]

2) [2x P'08 Rev2 8 voice]

3) [P'08 Rev2 8 + something else (perhaps the forthcoming UBXa)]

4) [Something else entirely]

Which would you/did you choose and why?
Old 26th October 2020
  #2
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🎧 5 years
You say "main analog polysynth" - I'd say it can be REV2 16 voice keyboard - as it is, you know, will be your workhorse so it should act like one. It's a good MIDI controller for one since it comes with a 5 octave kb and 50+ knobs, apart from being a solid synth.

That or get REV2 8 voice and Prologue 8 voice for more analog versatility.
Old 26th October 2020
  #3
Gear Addict
 
🎧 5 years
I would consider DM12 as my main analog poly. It has a desktop version, too. P08 + DM12 might still fit your budget, and I bet they are quite different sounding boards.

My main board is Summit, I prefer modern hybrids over pure analogs because of the versatility they offer.
Old 26th October 2020
  #4
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zerocrossing's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Be patient and wait for a 16 voice. You’ll be happy you did.
Old 26th October 2020 | Show parent
  #5
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Simonator's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by kraze ➡️
I'd say it can be REV2 16 voice keyboard - as it is, you know, will be your workhorse so it should act like one. It's a good MIDI controller for one since it comes with a 5 octave kb and 50+ knobs, apart from being a solid synth.
As mentioned - I don't have space for a keyboard version and strongly prefer a module.
I currently have an SY77 which acts as my 5 octave MIDI keyboard.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kraze ➡️
That or get REV2 8 voice and Prologue 8 voice for more analog versatility.
Hmm, I've sort of written off all 'logues for being too basic, but maybe I'll take another look. Thanks.
Old 26th October 2020 | Show parent
  #6
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Simonator's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by zerocrossing ➡️
Be patient and wait for a 16 voice. You’ll be happy you did.
Patience doesn't come into this. 16s are available, the 'scarcity' I referenced was just with respect to its impact on price.

New price (desktop):
Prophet rev2 8 = €1335
divided by
Prophet rev2 16 = €1885
= 71%

Used price (desktop):
Prophet rev2 8 = €750
divided by
Prophet rev2 16 = €1500
= 50%

... The point here is that the new price of 8 to 16 relative to one another makes sense; 8 costs 71% of the 16.

But, on the used market, because there are wayyyy more 8s hitting the market, the 8 is 50% of the 16.
... And from this, the question then comes of does it make sense to buy a used 16, or would it make more sense to buy 2x 8 voice for the same price (or thereabouts. That's what this thread is asking.

No patience needed. 16s are available to buy right now.
Old 26th October 2020
  #7
TJT
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Simonator ➡️
I have an approximately €1600 budget to spent on what will be my main analog polysynth. Desktop module(s) preferred over keys, but not a total deal-breaker to have keys.
I'm already satisfied with my monosynths / digital synths / samplers / etc... So I'm only looking here for analog poly.

I've been strongly leaning towards the P'08 16 voice. I intend to use a lot of patches (ie the Psalm37 libraries) which utilise the second layer (4 oscs per voice), so that brings the 16 back down to 8 voice polyphony.

Frustratingly though, since the 8 voice is wayyy more common, there is less scarcity in the used market. So while a 16 tends to be around €1500, I've seen the 8 frequently go for €750 - €800.
Intuitively, it would therefore seem to make more sense to go for 2x 8 voice. However, annoyingly, DSI have not implemented their poly chain functionality into the Rev2 (which was present in Rev1) - arguing it's not necessary since you can upgrade an 8 to a 16 by purchasing a voice extension card - but that costs €700 and, again, it would seem to make more sense to add another €50 to buy a second complete 8 voice synth, second hand.

I could use a third party device to share voices among 2x Rev2 8 voice, or simply separate out my chord notes over 2x MIDI tracks in my DAW... Though that's obviously not quite as elegant as having a 16, at times when I do need all that polyphony.

On the other hand, for when using less polyphony, it would be nicer to have hands-on control of all knobs on 2 totally separate timbres (as opposed to having to edit 2x layers with one set of knobs on the 16 voice).

So, I'm writing to ask your advice. Has anyone else been through the same dilemma and what did you choose?

As I see it, I have 4 different main options:

1) [P'08 Rev2 16 voice]

2) [2x P'08 Rev2 8 voice]

3) [P'08 Rev2 8 + something else (perhaps the forthcoming UBXa)]

4) [Something else entirely]

Which would you/did you choose and why?
If you can't really polychain them, then you're just buying two synths. I think you would hardly ever try to wrangle a 16 voice patch out of two separate synths.

My polychained tetras is like having one synth. I never actually remove the polychain to split them into two synths. The timesuck of programming a duplicate synth separately is not worth it. Pairing the rev.2 with something totally different would be cool though.
Old 26th October 2020 | Show parent
  #8
Gear Guru
 
zerocrossing's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Simonator ➡️
Patience doesn't come into this. 16s are available, the 'scarcity' I referenced was just with respect to its impact on price.

New price (desktop):
Prophet rev2 8 = €1335
divided by
Prophet rev2 16 = €1885
= 71%

Used price (desktop):
Prophet rev2 8 = €750
divided by
Prophet rev2 16 = €1500
= 50%

... The point here is that the new price of 8 to 16 relative to one another makes sense; 8 costs 71% of the 16.

But, on the used market, because there are wayyyy more 8s hitting the market, the 8 is 50% of the 16.
... And from this, the question then comes of does it make sense to buy a used 16, or would it make more sense to buy 2x 8 voice for the same price (or thereabouts. That's what this thread is asking.

No patience needed. 16s are available to buy right now.
I get it, but I was taking into account that it’s easier to come up with more money than space, so having a nice compact 16 voice module is the way to go.
Old 26th October 2020 | Show parent
  #9
Gear Maniac
 
Chandro Ji's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Simonator ➡️
Used price (desktop):
Prophet rev2 8 = €750
?!?

I’ve never seen a used Rev2 8 for for 750€, at least not here in Germany. That’s insanely cheap, where do life?
Old 26th October 2020 | Show parent
  #10
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Simonator's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by TJT ➡️
If you can't really polychain them, then you're just buying two synths. I think you would hardly ever try to wrangle a 16 voice patch out of two separate synths.

My polychained tetras is like having one synth. I never actually remove the polychain to split them into two synths. The timesuck of programming a duplicate synth separately is not worth it. Pairing the rev.2 with something totally different would be cool though.
Yeah, I agree with your thinking and that's why I'm strongly leaving towards the 16... That will give me 8 voices even with the stunning Psalm 37 patches.

There are solutions like little midi boxes which can separate notes in a chord and split them out - but you are right it's not the same and I would be left trying to perfectly match changes (ie filter cutoff) by ear.

I too have had 2x Tetras and loved them so much that's why I'm upgrading.

I think you are right and the 16 is the way forward. It just sucks there is such a huge disparity in the used price!
Old 26th October 2020 | Show parent
  #11
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Simonator's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chandro Ji ➡️
?!?

I’ve never seen a used Rev2 8 for for 750€, at least not here in Germany. That’s insanely cheap, where do life?
I'm in Germany, too.

https://reverb.com/p/dave-smith-inst...er#price-guide

€767 10th Oct
€667 30th Sept
€714 14th Aug
€793 11th Aug
€793 16th Jul
€793 10th Jun
€685 10th Jun
... Ad infinitum.

NB it's not 100% clear where those might be and they could be in the US... But if you look on eBay's 'sold' listings, you can see several sold for €8XX in recent history, in Europe.

I've seen some go super cheap on Kleinanzeigen too.
Old 26th October 2020
  #12
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Simonator's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
The key point though is that, when new, an 8 costs 71% of a 16... But that link is clearly not carried through to the used market.
Old 26th October 2020
  #13
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
I'd wait for a Behringer Pro 800 or the UB-Xa. 1600 Euros might get you both! Pro 800 should be a very neat little module.
Old 26th October 2020 | Show parent
  #14
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Simonator's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by rockmanrock ➡️
I'd wait for a Behringer Pro 800 or the UB-Xa. 1600 Euros might get you both! Pro 800 should be a very neat little module.
Hmm, really? I feel like neither would sound as good as the Rev2... And I expect the modulation options are wayyyy deeper on the Rev2?
Old 26th October 2020 | Show parent
  #15
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Simonator ➡️
Hmm, really? I feel like neither would sound as good as the Rev2... And I expect the modulation options are wayyyy deeper on the Rev2?
Well this is the choice. Synth-on-a-chip DCO tone with deep modulation and effects or real VCOs (3340s) and better filter (3320) tone with limited modulation. If the Pro 800 does the job you could have 1000 euros spare.

Thinking about it, wouldn't 1600 get you a P6/OB6 module? Must be a few floating around with the P5 tempting people.

I would not pay big bucks for a DCO poly when there are more VCO options by the day. There are exceptions but DSI P08s etc, nope.
Old 26th October 2020
  #16
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Beermaster's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
How many fingers do you have ?

Get the 8 voice ! - save the money

If you need a thicker sound .... overdub it !

Beer
Old 26th October 2020 | Show parent
  #17
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beermaster ➡️
How many fingers do you have ?

Get the 8 voice ! - save the money

If you need a thicker sound .... overdub it !

Beer
Blimey, welcome back Mr Beer!
Old 26th October 2020
  #18
Gear Addict
 
Pythonis Rogue's Avatar
Your thread title gives me mathematic ptsd.
Old 26th October 2020 | Show parent
  #19
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Simonator's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by rockmanrock ➡️
Thinking about it, wouldn't 1600 get you a P6/OB6 module? Must be a few floating around with the P5 tempting people.
I'd take a P08 Rev2 over a P6/OB6 any day.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rockmanrock ➡️
I would not pay big bucks for a DCO poly when there are more VCO options by the day. There are exceptions but DSI P08s etc, nope.
I think the Rev2 sounds incredible in the right hands:



Old 26th October 2020 | Show parent
  #20
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Simonator's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by rockmanrock ➡️
Blimey, welcome back Mr Beer!
Yeah, long time no see!
Old 26th October 2020 | Show parent
  #21
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Simonator's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beermaster ➡️
How many fingers do you have ?

Get the 8 voice ! - save the money

If you need a thicker sound .... overdub it !

Beer
Some patches use a second layer (4 Oscs per voic), ie most of Tim Mantle's excellent sound design:



... So that takes a 16 down to 8 voice polyphony and an 8 down to 4 voice.
Old 26th October 2020 | Show parent
  #22
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Simonator ➡️
I'd take a P08 Rev2 over a P6/OB6 any day.
Well if you prefer that then maybe the P08/Rev2 would be more to your taste than a P600 clone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Simonator ➡️
I think the Rev2 sounds incredible in the right hands:



Yes, they've done a good job here but I still see these DSIs as mildly souped up Matrix 6/1000 synths, and I know the fundamental tone is not stellar. Great PWM on them though. With the added panning and effects I can see they're capable of some nice stuff. As my only analogue poly though? Hmm.
Old 26th October 2020
  #23
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Used to own a Prophet 08 and now own a Prophet 6. The 6 sounds a lot better and is nicer to use IMO.
Old 26th October 2020 | Show parent
  #24
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Simonator's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by explorer ➡️
Used to own a Prophet 08 and now own a Prophet 6. The 6 sounds a lot better and is nicer to use IMO.
Can you (or anyone else) possibly link me to a demo clip of the P6 (or OB6) that sounds as good as those two P08 vids I posted a short while ago?
... I don't mean this as some sort of challenge to your correctness... I just haven't heard any P6 clips that sound quite this good - I'm genuinely open-minded here.

My current impression is that, while the P6 may well have VCOs, it's a bit crippled by the extremely limited modulation options.

Again - I'm genuinely open-minded here - want to get the best bang for my buck!
Old 26th October 2020
  #25
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🎧 10 years
I just noticed that (at least for me) the vids I linked start part-way through - just wanted to note that this was accidental and I wasn't trying to bring attention to any particular highlight.
Old 26th October 2020
  #26
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Simonator's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
My impression is that the P6/OB6 have a much bigger sweet-spot and it's hard to make either sound bad.
Conversely, the P08 has much narrower sweet-spots and it does take more work to make it sound good.
... But that in the right hands, the Rev2 can outperform the best that the P6/OB6 can put out, when it comes to richer tones.

I'm super-happy to be taught differently. Really.
Old 26th October 2020 | Show parent
  #27
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Simonator ➡️
Can you (or anyone else) possibly link me to a demo clip of the P6 (or OB6) that sounds as good as those two P08 vids I posted a short while ago?
Prophet 6 is obviously more limited in terms of modulation but the core tone is so much nicer, and you can always overdub or automate etc. if you're working in the studio.




Old 26th October 2020 | Show parent
  #28
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Simonator's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by explorer ➡️
Prophet 6
These are nice, especially the Luke Neptune. Thanks for the links!

I had a Toraiz AS1 before (1 voice of the P6) and found it to be a bit too clean. I will definitely try watching all these vids in full.
From a brief click through though, they aren't grabbing me as much as this one of the P08:




... I will legit give them all a full and proper listen though. Thanks!
Old 26th October 2020 | Show parent
  #29
TJT
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Simonator ➡️
My impression is that the P6/OB6 have a much bigger sweet-spot and it's hard to make either sound bad.
Conversely, the P08 has much narrower sweet-spots and it does take more work to make it sound good.
... But that in the right hands, the Rev2 can outperform the best that the P6/OB6 can put out, when it comes to richer tones.

I'm super-happy to be taught differently. Really.
I was able to compare my Tetra with a Rev. 3 Prophet 5 at one point side by side for several days. They weren't as far apart as people care to think. But, there was more bottom end clarity in the Prophet 5. And when you opened up the filter all the way, it sounded really nice (although mono), where as the brassiness on the Tetra can get a little grating unless you do some subtle modulation to give things a little more movement. The Prophet 5 (as well as the 6 ), also do oscillator cross modulation, which can give results that the Tetra/08/Rev.2 simply can't. Although there are SOOO many beautiful sounds you can get with the Tetra/08/Rev.2 that you can't touch with the Prophet 6 by virtue of all the modulation. I believe the LFO is Global on the 5 and 6, and they are obviously per voice on the 08/Tetra/Rev.2, which is both a blessing and a curse.

Those were the main differences for me. It made me pretty much content with the Tetra overall. Whenever I try to get a beefy, analog sounding poly sound with a digital synth or plugin, and then switch to the Tetra, it's night and day. Some day, I might splurge on a VCO poly, but I need to know it will be worth it.
Old 27th October 2020 | Show parent
  #30
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Simonator's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by TJT ➡️
I was able to compare my Tetra with a Rev. 3 Prophet 5 at one point side by side for several days. They weren't as far apart as people care to think. But, there was more bottom end clarity in the Prophet 5. And when you opened up the filter all the way, it sounded really nice (although mono), where as the brassiness on the Tetra can get a little grating unless you do some subtle modulation to give things a little more movement. The Prophet 5 (as well as the 6 ), also do oscillator cross modulation, which can give results that the Tetra/08/Rev.2 simply can't. Although there are SOOO many beautiful sounds you can get with the Tetra/08/Rev.2 that you can't touch with the Prophet 6 by virtue of all the modulation. I believe the LFO is Global on the 5 and 6, and they are obviously per voice on the 08/Tetra/Rev.2, which is both a blessing and a curse.

Those were the main differences for me. It made me pretty much content with the Tetra overall. Whenever I try to get a beefy, analog sounding poly sound with a digital synth or plugin, and then switch to the Tetra, it's night and day. Some day, I might splurge on a VCO poly, but I need to know it will be worth it.
All good points. If feel like for my personal needs and what I want to do with it, the Rev2 wins out. I can totally see why some people would favour the P6 though. The very first of the P6 vids a few posts ago has really fat low-end - sounds really thick... I can see how that could seem desirable - but it's not that type of sound I want from it.
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