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Which? €1600 budget = [P'08 Rev2 16 voice] vs [2x P'08 Rev2 8 voice] vs [P'08 Rev2 8 + ???] vs [???]
Old 27th October 2020 | Show parent
  #31
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theJPdude's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TJT ➡️
I was able to compare my Tetra with a Rev. 3 Prophet 5 at one point side by side for several days. They weren't as far apart as people care to think. But, there was more bottom end clarity in the Prophet 5. And when you opened up the filter all the way, it sounded really nice (although mono), where as the brassiness on the Tetra can get a little grating unless you do some subtle modulation to give things a little more movement.
Matia (INHALT) has an original P08 and P5r3 comparison video on his youtube and I have to agree that the differences (to me as well) aren't *shockingly* far off.

I don't necessarily hate the core tone of the PA 397https://ssmcurtis.com/tag/pa397/ but I understand some people might. For the price, there isn't much that is similar in terms of flexibility and routing options. (Novation Peak, if you like that sound.) For reference, I'm also using a Roland JDXA as my other poly, and when considering the analog voices only, I far prefer the bright curtis sound.
Old 27th October 2020 | Show parent
  #32
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🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by TJT ➡️
I believe the LFO is Global on the 5 and 6, and they are obviously per voice on the 08/Tetra/Rev.2, which is both a blessing and a curse.
I believe you can choose the lfo to be also global on the 08/TetraRev2, but I'm not sure.
It can in my Prophet12.
Old 27th October 2020 | Show parent
  #33
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Simonator's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by theJPdude ➡️
Matia (INHALT) has an original P08 and P5r3 comparison video on his youtube and I have to agree that the differences (to me as well) aren't *shockingly* far off.


Thanks. Watching this now. The 08 does have noticeably less girth and the strings sound better on the 5. Hmm.
Old 27th October 2020 | Show parent
  #34
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Simonator's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Does anyone know if the oscillator bleed issue is worse on the Rev2 than on the OG P08?

I Googled and found people discussing the issue for both synths, but none that compares one against the other.
Old 27th October 2020 | Show parent
  #35
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🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Simonator ➡️


Thanks. Watching this now. The 08 does have noticeably less girth and the strings sound better on the 5. Hmm.
That video demonstrates how flat and mushy the P08 can sound. Lifeless and with no real juice/electricity to the tone. Don’t miss mine one bit - would rather use software. The 08 has this static, almost string machine like quality that really put my teeth on edge once I heard it.
Old 27th October 2020 | Show parent
  #36
TJT
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Quote:
Originally Posted by camarao ➡️
I believe you can choose the lfo to be also global on the 08/TetraRev2, but I'm not sure.
It can in my Prophet12.
On the Tetra, sort of... I think it's like...You have to hit key sync and clock sync and then trigger all voices at once. Then you turn off key sync and they will stay timed together in free run. And I can't remember what happens if you change the speed. Not sure if they go out of sync again. There's no "global lfo" setting on the Tetra though. If I want a global lfo, the easiest thing is to quantize a sequence exactly and sync them like that. Not the most user friendly..
Old 27th October 2020 | Show parent
  #37
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While I think in terms of tone and ease of use, an OB6 >> P08rev2, there's also no questioning the difference between the two when it comes to modulation (the OB6 and P6 have a lot more capability then they appear to, but it's still not the same). Personally, while I'd have a hard time deciding between the P6 and Rev2 16, there was zero comparison between those two and the OB6. To my ears. I also didn't care much about on-board modulation - what's on the OB6/P6 is fine by me. I have software to add more modulation (albeit not routing) or just use virtual synths like Omnisphere with 100 or whatever assignable modulation slots.

Just comes down to the goals of the OP. I'd also go with a 16 over two 8s, but that's based on space, as zerocrossing said. I'd also consider Roland and Korg in this price range - and the Peak.
Old 27th October 2020 | Show parent
  #38
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Simonator's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years


I think this tipped me back towards the Rev2.
Old 27th October 2020 | Show parent
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Simonator ➡️


I think this tipped me back towards the Rev2.
I don't have great faith in that person's abilities to do a proper comparison. But that's me. I'd still suggest looking elsewhere rather than any video by them. Not saying you won't come to the same conclusion based on what you need/want/sounds good to you, of course!
Old 27th October 2020
  #40
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SkyWriter's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Everyone should have a 16 voice analog :-) if you play keys, it's a beautiful thing.

I wasn't happy with the P08 sound. As other have said, it's a tame sound. But, to each their own - it's all very personal what folks like. So I would say, give it shot. You can always resell it. And that's the thing isn't it? You're never really committed to a purchase unless it's new - then you have warrantee and other stuff to consider.

But used, is used, is used. Buy a used one; try it out.

Fwiw, I really liked the Mopho - go figure.
Old 27th October 2020 | Show parent
  #41
TJT
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Simonator ➡️


I think this tipped me back towards the Rev2.
Yeah, when he says he's tried to do similar complex modulation as the rev.2 with the Access Virus and it didn't "sound as nice," that's my experience as well. It hits that sweet spot between analog and complex that I can't quite get with a digital synth or vst. When you want an analog synth, but you want to bend and shape it in weird ways throughout a track.

No doubt the 6 would be better for more basic sounds though. Or, for the Osc cross mod sound. That osc cross mod thing is such a signature sound, I almost want a VCO poly just for that.
Old 27th October 2020 | Show parent
  #42
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Simonator's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyWriter ➡️
Fwiw, I really liked the Mopho - go figure.
IIRC it does have a different architecture; sub-oscillators on the Mopho which the 08s don't have... You can compensate by using a second layer on the 08s, but the sound is always going to be slightly different, so it's not madness to think you might prefer the sound of the Mopho!
Old 27th October 2020
  #43
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MinoCan's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 5 years
Polyphony is like RAM in computer or sampler, too much of it never is a bad thing I would pick REV2 16. I'm sure you can find your own unique way over its quirks with its mod matrix and FX tricks.

You can also use that 16 voice with a sampler or a digital layer, no one is holding you on that. It will be a good analog backbone imo.
Old 27th October 2020 | Show parent
  #44
Here for the gear
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Simonator ➡️
I'd take a P08 Rev2 over a P6/OB6 any day.



I think the Rev2 sounds incredible in the right hands:





Yeh the Krzysztof patches are ****ing unbelievable. Reverse engineering his patches taught me a lot. It annoys me when people say prophet 6 is better than rev2. They are different synths and the 16 voice polyphony on ambient slow release pads is gorgeous, something the ob6 and p6 will never touch. As a piano player I couldn’t imagine 6 voice chords always being the limit. The rev2 in the right hands is all you need.
Old 27th October 2020 | Show parent
  #45
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SkyWriter's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Simonator ➡️
IIRC it does have a different architecture; sub-oscillators on the Mopho which the 08s don't have... You can compensate by using a second layer on the 08s, but the sound is always going to be slightly different, so it's not madness to think you might prefer the sound of the Mopho!
True enough. It did have a bit more balls. Certainly more personality. I did the encoder->pot swap on the P08 as well.

Would the Prologue 16 interest you? If you like to code, this thing is crazy fun. Otherwise, it's a nice analog. :0)
Old 28th October 2020 | Show parent
  #46
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Simonator's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyWriter ➡️
Would the Prologue 16 interest you? If you like to code, this thing is crazy fun. Otherwise, it's a nice analog. :0)
I've owned two separate Minilogues and actually really liked them. The oscillator section is really sweet. It was difficult to part with both. But ultimately, they fall down at the modulation possibilities. Of course, the Prologue makes the oscillators way deeper (on top of already being awesome) and adds more modulation, but still it feels like it's lacking.
This thread has been genuinely useful - it's made me look at the issue from different angles - and ultimately reinforced the idea that the Rev2 16 is the best solution for me personally.
The sweet spots are definitely tougher to find in comparison to the P6, but I feel like that's a natural consequence of the extra depth it offers.
The Tetra was the very first analogue synth I owned (back in 2009 when I could equally have bought a Juno 106 for the same £350) and since then I've owned three in total - and I've intermittently flipped between love and hate for the sound. But right now I want to make sounds I think the Rev2 (essentially an extended Tetra + FX) excels at.

My current thoughts:

P6 = One huge sweet spot, fat, rich, easy to programme.

Rev2 = Harder to find the sweet spots, but when you do it's better suited for the sound I'm seeking right now.

... All of the 'versus' videos seem to focus on trying (and often failing) to match the sounds that both share capability of. I think that's perhaps unfair to the Rev2 as the entirety of its specialism is sounds that would be totally impossible on the P06.
Put another way - for very basic analog tones (ie a simple bass patch) the P06 may edge it... But for me personally that's not my need with this synth I'm seeking.

I still need to flip a lot of other stuff first - my next purchase is going to be an Elektron Analog Four MKII... but on the near-horizon is the Rev2 16.

Long live the Tetra!

Old 28th October 2020 | Show parent
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Simonator ➡️
All good points. If feel like for my personal needs and what I want to do with it, the Rev2 wins out. I can totally see why some people would favour the P6 though. The very first of the P6 vids a few posts ago has really fat low-end - sounds really thick... I can see how that could seem desirable - but it's not that type of sound I want from it.
I think that, since you've done the research and you're going in with your eyes (and ears) open, you're going to have a LOT of fun exploring the Rev2 - for years to come.

I specifically didn't set out to get a hardware poly with lots of sound design capabilities - I had different goals. Even still, the OB6 has a lot more going on than it seems just by looking at it. It's been 8 months and I'm still learning new things on what it can do - and I use it almost every day! A synth like the Rev2 with the powerhouse modulation capabilities... so so so much to learn and explore and try out. Endless entertainment and possibilities ahead.

Congrats on making the decision!!

EDIT: I like buying PC editors for my synths to help me learn them and how to deconstruct factory or 3rd party sounds... or even to just help me see at a glance where I'd positioned the knobs on a preset I made months ago.
Old 28th October 2020 | Show parent
  #48
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Simonator's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by vitocorleone123 ➡️
EDIT: I like buying PC editors for my synths to help me learn them and how to deconstruct factory or 3rd party sounds... or even to just help me see at a glance where I'd positioned the knobs on a preset I made months ago.
Codeknobs, Codeknobs, Codeknobs... Best DSI editors by a country mile.
Old 28th October 2020
  #49
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This is probably the sluttiest answer I can give you which is: Get the REV-2 16 and a Prologue 16. By the time Behringer released the UBXa and the Pro 5 clone you have saved enough money to buy them both, so you'll end up with 4 synthesizers.
Old 28th October 2020
  #50
Gear Guru
 
fiddlestickz's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
get the REV 2 16 voice module, if you don't you'll only wish you bought it for ages to come.
Old 28th October 2020
  #51
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Sharp11's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
If you’re planning to use both layers a lot, get the 16 voice, you’ll have two 8 voice synths at your disposal, each with their own outputs, filters etc.

The p8 rev2 is the value champ in the dsi line right now and while all the attention is pointed at the new P5, the 8 holds its own.

I’ve had my original p8 since November of 2008, it feels a bit constraining in 4 voice mode, so yeah, go with the 16. My p12 gets a lot of use in two layer mode, but even then, with 6 voices each, I feel I could use a couple more, so the p16 should serve you well.
Old 28th October 2020 | Show parent
  #52
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Simonator ➡️
I've owned two separate Minilogues and actually really liked them. The oscillator section is really sweet. It was difficult to part with both. But ultimately, they fall down at the modulation possibilities.
This is pretty much where I was. The Minilogue was my first poly, but I started to get frustrated, mainly at the voice count, but also at the limited modulation options. I kept thinking of things I wished I could do but couldn't. This may have just been my unit, but about 15-20 minutes after turning it on, it would inevitably go out of tune. I started noticing myself dreading that and not playing it because of it.

The things that attracted me to the Rev2 were 1) the mod matrix, and 2) the relatively low price, and 3) the fact that it's a DCO synth. That last one isn't the most popular of opinions, but for this purpose I was happy to give up some of that VCO character in exchange for the knowledge that it would absolutely not drift. About six months in, I continue to be completely happy with it. I actually don't find myself using the crazy modulations that often, but I like knowing that I can do it. What I have grown to rely on is the flexibility in assigning how the mod wheel behaves. I love that I can have it affect multiple parameters at once, and I have control over the range of each. I ended up with the 16-voice, and although that seemed like total overkill at first, I'm glad I have it. Stacking two patches for a huge four-oscillator sound is a lot of fun.
Old 29th October 2020 | Show parent
  #53
Gear Guru
 
zerocrossing's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Simonator ➡️
My impression is that the P6/OB6 have a much bigger sweet-spot and it's hard to make either sound bad.
Conversely, the P08 has much narrower sweet-spots and it does take more work to make it sound good.
... But that in the right hands, the Rev2 can outperform the best that the P6/OB6 can put out, when it comes to richer tones.

I'm super-happy to be taught differently. Really.
I have both and here’s my take.

First off... who wants sweet all the time? Salty, bitter and sour are good too.

Second, the sweet spots on the REV2 are not that much narrower than on the Prophet 6. Mostly it’s just very different. Trust your ears.

Lastly... buy what suits you. I thought having the 6 would mean I’d be set with an analog poly and never feel the need for another. I was wrong. Actually, having it made me want that modern Curtis sound even more. It’s more like a modern Matrix 12. Would you want a modern Prophet and a Modern Matrix? I do. If I’m going for a pretty simple sound that’s going to be featured, I’m reaching for the 6, but I’ve gotten monster sounds from the REV2. Dual layer pads that really sound fantastic. Bright and buzzy. It can do warm and sweet too... but maybe not quite as warm and sweet.
Old 1st November 2020 | Show parent
  #54
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Simonator's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years


Check out the Twin Peaks bit from 50 secs onwards.
When he plays the much deeper note on the Rev2, the higher notes drop in level by a *huge* amount.
That doesn't happen on the OG P08 here.

What's going on? Any ideas?

If that's typical behaviour on the Rev2 I think I'd rather get the OG version.
Old 1st November 2020
  #55
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 5 years
0,5 Prophet 5 rev 4 is the way to go.
Old 1st November 2020 | Show parent
  #56
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🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Simonator ➡️

Check out the Twin Peaks bit from 50 secs onwards.
When he plays the much deeper note on the Rev2, the higher notes drop in level by a *huge* amount.
That doesn't happen on the OG P08 here.

What's going on? Any ideas?

If that's typical behaviour on the Rev2 I think I'd rather get the OG version.
I'd say he probably made a mistake with aftertouch modulation, setting it to close the filter and hit the key hard enough to engage it fully.

The analog sound-generating hardware in both P08 and REV2 is identical*. The only difference is that REV2's software exposes functions of PA397 chips unused in P08 (PWM for all waveforms being one example - which is there in P08's hardware, but sadly was ignored in the original).

*a sidenote that was always interesting to me - REV2 comes with a suboscillator - but it's not a part of PA397 spec - which probably means it's digital since there's zero circuitry for it on the voice boards?
Old 1st November 2020 | Show parent
  #57
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Simonator's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by kraze ➡️
I'd say he probably made a mistake with aftertouch modulation, setting it to close the filter and hit the key hard enough to engage it fully.

The sound-generating hardware in both P08 and REV2 is identical. The only difference is that REV2's software exposes functions of PA397 chips unused in P08 (PWM for all waveforms being one example - which is there in P08's hardware, but sadly was ignored in the original)
Thanks for your input. That makes sense.

I would love to see a more scientific video (ie both triggered by the same pre-recorded MIDI). Surprisingly, this is about the only direct comparison of the Rev2 vs OG on YouTube.
In many of the examples here, the OG seems to sound better to me... And I've seen lots of forum comments of people claiming the OG sounds better.
Old 1st November 2020 | Show parent
  #58
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🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Simonator ➡️
Thanks for your input. That makes sense.

I would love to see a more scientific video (ie both triggered by the same pre-recorded MIDI). Surprisingly, this is about the only direct comparison of the Rev2 vs OG on YouTube.
In many of the examples here, the OG seems to sound better to me... And I've seen lots of forum comments of people claiming the OG sounds better.
Maybe it's the placebo effect known as "vintage bias"? Prophet '08 is nearly 13 years old at this point and there's this thing among slutz here where "older means better".

I have the OG, I love it - but to me when I hear Rev2 anywhere - it sounds the same (bar new aforementioned functions).

"Scientifically" speaking PA397 is a self-contained synth voice in a chip - in fact to such a degree that the waveform is generated, then processed by the filter, then by the amp and then panned L/R - all within the chip - so no external circuitry may affect the sound in any way up to a point when it finally leaves the chip. Except maybe those envelope/lfo shapes but I wouldn't be surprised if Sequential kept them identical. So the only thing that may be different is the final gain staging during 16 voices-to-stereo summing.

That's in contrast to, say, Prophet 6, where you have separate chips for VCOs, filters and amps - with a number of caps in between each and when they will wear out with age - each voice will start sounding a bit differently. Or "vintage" - which people say is missing from modern synths because they didn't suffer through so much tear and wear yet. So buy Prophet 6 in 10 years then - yeah I'm joking - but who knows what time does to it.
Old 1st November 2020 | Show parent
  #59
TJT
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by kraze ➡️
Maybe it's the placebo effect known as "vintage bias"? Prophet '08 is nearly 13 years old at this point and there's this thing among slutz here where "older means better".

I have the OG, I love it - but to me when I hear Rev2 anywhere - it sounds the same (bar new aforementioned functions).

"Scientifically" speaking PA397 is a self-contained synth voice in a chip - in fact to such a degree that the waveform is generated, then processed by the filter, then by the amp and then panned L/R - all within the chip - so no external circuitry may affect the sound in any way up to a point when it finally leaves the chip. Except maybe those envelope/lfo shapes but I wouldn't be surprised if Sequential kept them identical. So the only thing that may be different is the final gain staging during 16 voices-to-stereo summing.

That's in contrast to, say, Prophet 6, where you have separate chips for VCOs, filters and amps - with a number of caps in between each and when they will wear out with age - each voice will start sounding a bit differently. Or "vintage" - which people say is missing from modern synths because they didn't suffer through so much tear and wear yet. So buy Prophet 6 in 10 years then - yeah I'm joking - but who knows what time does to it.
Slop has been given a much larger variation. So, that alone can cause quite a bit of difference in sound on basic patches I'm guessing, unless you painstakingly program it in in the '08. Slop on my Tetra is useless.

One thing to keep in mind is they can sound different based in the calibration. One of my Tetra's patches sounded different from my other. Then I ran the calibration and they went back to sounding the same.
Old 1st November 2020 | Show parent
  #60
TJT
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Simonator ➡️


Check out the Twin Peaks bit from 50 secs onwards.
When he plays the much deeper note on the Rev2, the higher notes drop in level by a *huge* amount.
That doesn't happen on the OG P08 here.

What's going on? Any ideas?

If that's typical behaviour on the Rev2 I think I'd rather get the OG version.
That just sounds like he has key tracking for the filter set globally on the Rev.2. Like, maybe on that patch, there is a mod bus source that is set to "key number" that tracks the filter. And maybe the patch isn't quite the same on the 08. It's definitely a programming thing.
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