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New Sequential Prophet 5 and 10
Old 5th October 2020 | Show parent
  #1531
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If you want a 5-voice P5 then just buy a P5 Otherwise go for the 10 and enjoy the extra polyphony.
Old 5th October 2020 | Show parent
  #1532
Gear Maniac
 

I want a 10 voice with a 5 badge!
Old 5th October 2020 | Show parent
  #1533
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcadia View Post
If you want a 5-voice P5 then just buy a P5 Otherwise go for the 10 and enjoy the extra polyphony.
I wish for the basic layering (same patch), not because it's cool but because I see potential in conjunction with Vintage knob setting at low values - it makes it sound wide and wild and this makes me believe in 2x5 voice mode, it would sound really really powerful. I mean MM powerful!

Of course advanced layering would be welcome too (having two different patches at the same time).
Old 5th October 2020
  #1534
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benanderson89's Avatar
Did some extra reading around. Dave Smith states that he's buying the Curtis chips from OnChip Systems. Bit of searcing later and OnChip used to be Curtis! If he somehow manages to squeeze a Z80 in there then it'll be as authentic as you can get, haha! (It'll probably be powered by an ARM core).
Old 5th October 2020 | Show parent
  #1535
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https://fr.audiofanzine.com/synthe-a....10437742.html

There are two pics of the mainboard/voiceboard. Looks like a second 5-voice board piggyback on top of a 5-voice mainboard.

So a voice upgrade theoretically seems possible unless there are different 5 or 10 voice mainboards or different headroom determining summing op amp and output vca circuits to take either 5 or 10 voices and to sum them with the right Prophet-ish amount of op amp harmonics. Also firmware may have to be different of course.
Old 5th October 2020
  #1536
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Many cries of despair can be heard from eBay for some reason.
Old 5th October 2020 | Show parent
  #1537
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benanderson89's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by kraze View Post
Many cries of despair can be heard from eBay for some reason.
As Behringer clones and Roland re-releases have shown, no tears happen. If anything the price goes up because you now have the cachet of owning the original.
Old 5th October 2020 | Show parent
  #1538
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kpatz's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by benanderson89 View Post
Did some extra reading around. Dave Smith states that he's buying the Curtis chips from OnChip Systems. Bit of searcing later and OnChip used to be Curtis! If he somehow manages to squeeze a Z80 in there then it'll be as authentic as you can get, haha! (It'll probably be powered by an ARM core).
It has a Raspberry Pi running a Z80 emulator running the original firmware.

In reality, probably a 32-bit PIC, AVR or ARM... I think they've used PICs in other synths.
Old 5th October 2020 | Show parent
  #1539
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by el-folie View Post
https://fr.audiofanzine.com/synthe-a....10437742.html

There are two pics of the mainboard/voiceboard. Looks like a second 5-voice board piggyback on top of a 5-voice mainboard.

So a voice upgrade theoretically seems possible unless there are different 5 or 10 voice mainboards or different headroom determining summing op amp and output vca circuits to take either 5 or 10 voices and to sum them with the right Prophet-ish amount of op amp harmonics. Also firmware may have to be different of course.


Old 5th October 2020 | Show parent
  #1540
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Seeing that extra voice board piggy backed on top just makes it hurt that much more that there’s not a separate output for the extra 5 voices.

Quote:
Old 5th October 2020 | Show parent
  #1541
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blewis_13 View Post
Seeing that extra voice board piggy backed on top just makes it hurt that much more that there’s not a separate output for the extra 5 voices.
I can relate to that and at the same time think that this new Prophet 10 was Dave´s original vision, the rev 1 5/10 voice, and now it´s become possible due to modern components and less heat. Who knows what Sequential will have up their sleeves in the next years...

Personally I´d be completely happy with either a 5 or 10 voice version without stereo features or dual timbral architecture but I totally understand those who´d like it more feature packed.

Edit:
And it may define my as a complete nerd, but I really think the boards do look beautifully laid out, the modern level of integration is also stunning, it just looks pristine, love it!

Last edited by el-folie; 5th October 2020 at 04:38 PM..
Old 5th October 2020 | Show parent
  #1542
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Avantmidi's Avatar
I'm waiting for the PRO 8 / PRO 16 Moog One competitor.
This Prophet 5 Rev 4 does hit a nice sweet spot for anyone that always wanted one. Smart move. Wonder if this has any legal advantages when brining Ulrich to court. Whatever...
Old 5th October 2020 | Show parent
  #1543
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ionian View Post
Was there ever a clear answer from Pym on if the P10 will have a "voice limiting" ability to limit the voices to 5 to imitate the P5 perfectly?
I think Dave Smith himself may have answered this question with a "we'll consider it", in post number 85 of this very thread (on page 3 if you have 30 messages per page).
Old 5th October 2020 | Show parent
  #1544
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maisonvague's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Solaris View Post
I think I should have emphasized that the topic in here are staccato notes, not the LFO itself.
If the context is staccato notes, I agree LFO reset on keypress might not be particularly useful.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Solaris View Post
I wish for the basic layering (same patch), not because it's cool but because I see potential in conjunction with Vintage knob setting at low values - it makes it sound wide and wild and this makes me believe in 2x5 voice mode, it would sound really really powerful. I mean MM powerful!

Of course advanced layering would be welcome too (having two different patches at the same time).
I’m able to encroach on MM territory with my P-10 by layering a two VCO patch over a one VCO patch and going paraphonically into an MF-101 LPF. Sounds great!

I’ve actually learned to appreciate the power of paraphonic processing in part thanks to my P-10 which has a very musical last note priority implementation via its CV/GATE outputs (which btw, in case anyone missed it, cbmd has confirmed has been implemented in the new Prophets).
Old 5th October 2020 | Show parent
  #1545
Pym
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It can be very important. Any randomization to the transient can be extremely noticeable depending on the context... but that's the important thing here, depending on context. I went through this on the Tempest while trying to make bell tones and drums, the free running LFO (and several other params that cause short bursts of randomness on note on messages) drastically change things

Either way it isn't an option on the new P5, we don't have tempo sync'd LFOs which is normally the big reason to put that feature in

Quote:
Originally Posted by maisonvague View Post
If the context is staccato notes, I agree LFO reset on keypress might not be particularly useful.
Old 5th October 2020 | Show parent
  #1546
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kaykaynotk's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pym View Post
I'm sure you can attest to the fact that we put in a TON of time into nailing the envelopes. I was really surprised at how much nuance you can get by really diving into the curves and response. I feel comfortable saying the envelopes are as close to the analog chips as anybody has gotten, across all three revs
This pleases me greatly.

Would there be any virtue in being able to use the Rev 3 envelopes with the Rev 1/2 filters and vice versa?
Old 5th October 2020 | Show parent
  #1547
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realtrance's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by zerocrossing View Post
Oh, I don’t want to be misunderstood. The Prophet 10 appeals to me as well. I mean, who wouldn’t it? My point is more about what will fit in that sector of desk that is going to give me more of what’s important to me. It’s not the Prophet 10. I’ll trade versatility for some tone any day, and again, I’m not sure I really feel like the new Prophets actually sound better. They sound good and they sound different, but better? If I had one and I pushed it around a bit next to the 6, I’m sure I’d find spots that made the 6 look weak, but I’m just not going to do that. Hell, Repro makes the 6 look weak in places, but also makes Repro seem sterile and dead in comparison in other places. I bet I could find places where the rev 4s don’t sound that hot either. I’ve actually heard them in a few places in some of the early demos.



I thought the CS-80 came first... but yeah, obviously a classic. No one’s arguing it isn’t.



I’d buy an electric muscle car in a heartbeat. I like the lines of the Camaro more, though.



I definitely see how many people can’t wait to buy this and would sell their 6, or even their rev 3 5, or whatever, go get their hands on one of these. No doubt. However, if I were king, I’d have made him make me a Prophet 10 rev 4 with the modulation options of the 08s, and had him throw in a third oscillator from the VS. Now that would get me to start thinking about selling off more stuff. But this... doesn’t really excite me that much. If the 5 REV4 were $2500, I’d still pick the PolyBrute over it. That thing has really captured my attention.
Yes, you know I’m not a fan of the “better” school of thought in musical sounds. I love them all.

This is just another option.

My own ardor has cooled for the moment on both; it’s fun to dream, but I’ve got plenty to explore right now, both in software and hardware.

I rarely buy a synth fresh out anyways. Waited a long time on the Quantum after release, as, despite the fact I like Waldorf’s sound and architecture, their hardware has been, shall we say, quirky, and I wanted to see if things would get ironed out to the point where such a big purchase could be made reliably.

Will still crave a P5/10, as I do a P6, Moog One and Matriarch, Korg Prologue, Polybrute and Jupiter X, but you know, even retired, there are only so many hours in the day! And I’ve only just begun to enjoy what I already have, and wouldn’t trade any of it.

We’ll see; I may feel differently down the line.
Old 5th October 2020 | Show parent
  #1548
vlz
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vlz's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pym View Post
Yeah it's funny how the discussion starts as 'well is it the same' and then slowly people start to think 'oh, well how is it BETTER?'

We are so used to the cheap clones that it's a nice surprise when you get something you weren't expecting
Many of what you disparaging call "cheap clones" not only sound as good than what they are supposed to follow, but better too. I have two of them that I can say truly do.

I really dislike these cheap (yes cheap) takes at other synths and manufacturers. It just shows naked pedantry. There is no need for that.
Old 5th October 2020 | Show parent
  #1549
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Synthpark's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pym View Post
It can be very important. Any randomization to the transient can be extremely noticeable depending on the context... but that's the important thing here, depending on context. I went through this on the Tempest while trying to make bell tones and drums, the free running LFO (and several other params that cause short bursts of randomness on note on messages) drastically change things

Either way it isn't an option on the new P5, we don't have tempo sync'd LFOs which is normally the big reason to put that feature in
Thanks for making this clear. It is a bit disappointing since this feature is available on the Prophet 6/OB6 and opens a lot of possibilities when using the synth to make drums or let's call it "modern sounds". Using VCO2 in LFO mode doesn't help either. Maybe a future update? Given how trivial it is to implement a simple LFO phase reset IF (and only if) the LFO is created digital.
Old 5th October 2020 | Show parent
  #1550
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maisonvague's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pym View Post
It can be very important. Any randomization to the transient can be extremely noticeable depending on the context... but that's the important thing here, depending on context.
I totally agree--which is why I wrote "might not be particularly useful".

I was also wanting to end the argument.

But, yeah, depending on the context, it can be very important.
Old 5th October 2020 | Show parent
  #1551
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benanderson89's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by el-folie View Post
I can relate to that and at the same time think that this new Prophet 10 was Dave´s original vision, the rev 1 5/10 voice, and now it´s become possible due to modern components and less heat. Who knows what Sequential will have up their sleeves in the next years...

Personally I´d be completely happy with either a 5 or 10 voice version without stereo features or dual timbral architecture but I totally understand those who´d like it more feature packed.
This might piss off a lot of people in this thread but hear me out -- if you want an authentic, monophonic (output), monotimbral Prophet 5 that is as accurate as it can be, buy the version from Sequential.

If you want an expanded version with more bells and whistles, wait for Behringer to finish their iteration (we all know it's coming). Given what they did with their Juno clone, resulting in the DeepMind 12 (which is fantastic), and what they're currently doing with their OB-Xa clone, the UB-Xa, it'll be a given that their "Pro Five" clone will have all the extras associated with it, too.

if you're adding extra bits that are inaccurate, then you may as well buy the less accurate version. If you want accuracy to the original, then buy the Rev 4.
Old 5th October 2020 | Show parent
  #1552
Pym
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Sorry you're interpreting it that way but this is just market reaction, it isn't a shot at anyone. "Cheap clones" is simply an accurate description of many products that have been released over the past few years of established products and circuitry without major feature enhancements. If you feel that is a negative I can't argue with the way you feel about it, but it was reading into my statement more than it was intended

Quote:
Originally Posted by vlz View Post
Many of what you disparaging call "cheap clones" not only sound as good than what they are supposed to follow, but better too. I have two of them that I can say truly do.

I really dislike these cheap (yes cheap) takes at other synths and manufacturers. It just shows naked pedantry. There is no need for that.
Old 5th October 2020
  #1553
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Did the sequential guys say if the P10 will get splits and stacks later on?
Old 5th October 2020
  #1554
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I think Behringer may have partly launched its attack of the clones as a marketing and manafacturing base from which to launch new designs in the long-term. These issues may feel less relevant in a few years in a much larger synth market. I've been endlessly surprised in the last decade or so at how it keeps on expanding without apparently hardly *any* major, or indeed minor, players being badly affected, or seemingly pulling out. It might be because straight rock music is somewhat less fashionable these days, and so manafacturers now have potentially a huge global market of the whole world's younger laptop-based electronic musicians to appeal to. Sequential's Prophet 6 video from a few years ago now has gathered up about 400,000 views on youtube, for instance.

Last edited by wendell r.; 5th October 2020 at 03:07 PM..
Old 5th October 2020 | Show parent
  #1555
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ossicle View Post
My mistake Thanks for the correction. I must have confused it with the Matrix 12 / Xpander.

The JP6 are certainly sluggish digital ones - that I know from experience. But what I said about digital envelopes in general still stands and was really my main point there: the best ones are analogue IME but that doesn't mean digital ones couldn't be made as good (or better) these days.
I was wrong earlier about the OB-8.

But I really can't call the MKS-80 (rev. 5) envelopes sluggish--they have the same shape and "snap" as earlier rolands, maybe just an extra millisecond or two on the attack.

By comparison, yes, xpander/Matrix-12, Ensoniq SQ-80... a lot of other late-80s hybrids.. THOSE are sluggish.

anyway, we agree on the potential for current digital implementation.
Old 5th October 2020 | Show parent
  #1556
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Synthpark's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Ruff View Post
I was wrong earlier about the OB-8.

But I really can't call the MKS-80 (rev. 5) envelopes sluggish--they have the same shape and "snap" as earlier rolands, maybe just an extra millisecond or two on the attack.

By comparison, yes, xpander/Matrix-12, Ensoniq SQ-80... a lot of other late-80s hybrids.. THOSE are sluggish.

anyway, we agree on the potential for current digital implementation.
I had a MKS80 rev 4 and the envelope came really punchy, but with a constant delay of 5ms.
Old 5th October 2020 | Show parent
  #1557
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ossicle View Post
My mistake Thanks for the correction. I must have confused it with the Matrix 12 / Xpander.
Or perhaps you were thinking of OB-8 digital LFOs. I've seen many people make the mistake noting that the OB-8 has digital envelopes when it is the LFOs that are digital.
Old 5th October 2020 | Show parent
  #1558
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Analog Rob Lowe's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by maisonvague View Post

The way to go is to get either the 5-voice keyboard model or the 10-voice now (depending on your budget/needs) and plan on adding a module down the road.


Ding ding ding, we have a winner P10/w osmosis 5v module
Old 5th October 2020 | Show parent
  #1559
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maisonvague's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Ruff View Post
It’s funny, when I have read about the differences in the VCA and gain staging between the P5 and the P 10, the difference in the latter was framed negatively. But here we are talking about it positively :-)
I’ve heard it framed both positively and negatively as well, but have concluded it’s largely all a myth (as these things often are).

The architecture of the dual manual P-10 is such that only in the mono outputs (of which there are two, balanced and unbalanced) are all 10 voices ever summed together. Otherwise it's literally two Rev 3 Prophet-5s with independent outputs stuffed in a single case.

The notion that the P-10 sounds different from the P-5 because headroom needed to be left for 10 voices sounding at once makes no sense given this architecture. If anyone can enlighten me otherwise, I'm all ears.

As for the new P-10 needing to leave headroom for ten voices sounding at once, this would make sense given the single mono output.
Old 5th October 2020 | Show parent
  #1560
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcadia View Post
This was certainly the case with the Behringer Poly D. Had it side by side with B's Model D and when trying to make 3-OSC bass sounds and play them monophonically on the Poly D it just didn't have the punch of the Model D.
Did you crank the oscillators up and/or route the headphone out to the input for a little extra drive? I agree the gain staging definitely changed the sound a bit, but I feel like there are workarounds to get a little bit more in the ballpark.
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