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New Sequential Prophet 5 and 10
Old 2nd December 2020 | Show parent
  #5941
Gear Addict
 
Channelizer's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TechnoRoom View Post
These VCAs are driven by a shared control voltage that makes it possible to change the gain of the group summing circuits before they are mixed together at the final output. The circuitry is thus capable of adjusting the internal gain staging to yield the best signal-to-noise ratio in both 5-voice and 10-voice modes.
Good stuff!
Old 2nd December 2020 | Show parent
  #5942
Gear Maniac
 
Big thing's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by TechnoRoom View Post
I am not privy to Sequential's plans, but have had mine on the bench to analyze the circuitry so I could design a stereo panning modification for the 10 voices.
I don't fully understand..

Do you mean that you're planning to build a mod for the Rev4 that would give it the voice pan feature of other Sequential synths?

Or something that pans voices 1-5 on way, and 6-10 the other?

In either case, it sounds very very interesting!
Old 3rd December 2020 | Show parent
  #5943
Gear Nut
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big thing View Post
I don't fully understand..

Do you mean that you're planning to build a mod for the Rev4 that would give it the voice pan feature of other Sequential synths?

Or something that pans voices 1-5 on way, and 6-10 the other?

In either case, it sounds very very interesting!
Thanks! I am still prototyping but will post audio examples soon.

It will allow each of the 10 voices to be panned anywhere within the stereo field, similar to an OB-8. The existing headphone jack on the rear panel is repurposed to be the stereo line-level output, and a new mini-jack is added on the side of the unit (next to the ten panning controls) for the headphone output, which is now upgraded to stereo. The level of the L and R stereo outputs (line and headphone) is controlled by the existing volume knob / MIDI volume setting just as the mono output currently is. The existing mono output is unchanged.

Eleven small holes are made in the metal case on the synth's left-hand side (10 for the pan controls, 1 for the new headphone jack.) The wood panel on this side is recess-routered with a small rectangular area for the panpots and headphone jack, again similar to an OB-8. I am designing the mod to be reversible if desired -- no circuit board traces are cut, and the holes in the side of the metal case can be covered with a new wooden side panel.

I am being very careful to do this in a manner in which this fine instrument deserves. Some might consider this sacrilege, but for me, the 10-voice version could really benefit from this mod.
Old 3rd December 2020
  #5944
Lives for gear
 
EBDA1176's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Prophet 10.


The more I say it the more it sounds right. Not so bothered anymore about the 5 name because the 10 is its own thing and does sound kinda grand. Besides, as they are both new synths it’s not quite the same thing as owning a vintage P5 name wise and now the rev4s are out I think history will be rewritten to bring the 5 and 10 into line with each other (as more new buyers are buying and using the 10 it seems). 10 years from now the rev 4 prophet 10 will be just as highly regarded as the rev 2 Prophet 5, for slightly different reasons. And of course the fact Dave did initially want the Prophet to be 10 voices anyway way back in 78, which makes sense.

Oh and it’s 2 more than a Jupiter bloomin’ 8 so wins by default. 😁🤔😂👍
Old 3rd December 2020
  #5945
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
It's really the Prophet 10 Rev 3 isn't it, but I suppose that would just confuse and potentially throw off of a lot of future buyers not savvy with all this vintage synth business ;.)
Old 3rd December 2020 | Show parent
  #5946
Lives for gear
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by EBDA1176 View Post
Prophet 10.


Oh and it’s 2 more than a Jupiter bloomin’ 8 so wins by default.
you have no idea what you're talking about. also have no practical experience with the jp8.
forget yt ... this is amusing, but does not replace a real comparison
You simply cannot compare cem-based vco,s with classic discrete sawcore vco,s.
cem is simply stable in the waveform over the entire frequency, the others are not. it's like comparing apples with pears ..
tonally, the imperfection of the sawcore vco is perceived by many as warmer and livelier.
and please stay calm. thx
Old 3rd December 2020
  #5947
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
This is one of my favourite of all the demos so far, with I think some of the best sound choices.


Last edited by wendell r.; 3rd December 2020 at 11:28 AM..
Old 3rd December 2020 | Show parent
  #5948
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by TechnoRoom View Post
Eleven small holes are made in the metal case on the synth's left-hand side (10 for the pan controls, 1 for the new headphone jack.)
Does this imply it would also be possible to have individual outs per voice, or set of voices? I was thinking back to recent mention of a potential future (unconfirmed) firmware update which would allow layer/split of 2 patches, but since there is only a single MONO out it'd be limited if you wanted different fx for each part.

For an experiment I set up a key split using a second sound source instead which worked pretty well if you ignore my questionable music choice

Old 3rd December 2020 | Show parent
  #5949
Lives for gear
 
EBDA1176's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by wendell r. View Post
It's really the Prophet 10 Rev 3 isn't it, but I suppose that would just confuse and potentially throw off of a lot of future buyers not savvy with all this vintage synth business ;.)
Well exactly, I’d just call it the non janky, non overheating, non fugly organ looking thing Prophet 10 to make it really clear. It’s a shame the Prophet 10 name was pre sullied by misfortune... but the new one will set that straight and become a classic in its own right.
Old 3rd December 2020
  #5950
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
I think if MaisonVague were here he'd stand up proudly to defend the p10 Rev 2, but I get where you're coming from ;.)
Old 3rd December 2020 | Show parent
  #5951
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EBDA1176's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by wendell r. View Post
I think if MaisonVague were here he'd stand up proudly to defend the p10 Rev 2, but I get where you're coming from ;.)
It’s a great sound machine, and a rare classic for sure. Am not knocking it that way, just the design and aesthetics of jamming two into one back then are certainly “of their time” but maybe it’s a taste thing, for the same reason I dont like guitars with two necks 😁 ... streamlined, sleek and purposeful is what I like. Not something that looks Like it was left in a cupboard in the dark with some roadies sweaty leathers and mutated Into... that. Also the ergonomics look hella bad with the control panel so far from the gut hitting lower keybed? Not sure if it looks better or worse than an organ without the offset keybeds but do know the new prophet 10 (and therefore the original overheating Prophet 10s) look 10x better.
Old 3rd December 2020 | Show parent
  #5952
Lives for gear
 
maisonvague's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by EBDA1176 View Post
Well exactly, I’d just call it the non janky, non overheating, non fugly organ looking thing Prophet 10 to make it really clear. It’s a shame the Prophet 10 name was pre sullied by misfortune... but the new one will set that straight and become a classic in its own right.
Mine doesn’t overheat.

I’m also not so sure its reputation was as sullied as you’re making.

But it did have issues. No getting around that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wendell r. View Post
I think if MaisonVague were here he'd stand up proudly to defend the p10 Rev 2, but I get where you're coming from ;.)
It’s all good. I’ve already conceded the dual manual P-10 is rather homely.

I still love it, though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EBDA1176 View Post
It’s a great sound machine, and a rare classic for sure. Am not knocking it that way, just the design and aesthetics of jamming two into one back then are certainly “of their time” but maybe it’s a taste thing, for the same reason I dont like guitars with two necks ... streamlined, sleek and purposeful is what I like. Not something that looks Like it was left in a cupboard in the dark with some roadies sweaty leathers and mutated Into... that. Also the ergonomics look hella bad with the control panel so far from the gut hitting lower keybed? Not sure if it looks better or worse than an organ without the offset keybeds but do know the new prophet 10 (and therefore the original overheating Prophet 10s) look 10x better.
It’s funny you should mention double-neck guitars in connection with the P-10 today because I made just such a connection thinking how, with the passage of prog-rock to the history books and fringes, we aren't likely to see dual-manual synths again.

About the ergonomics, I will assume you’ve never played one (no snark intended btw). It’s not as bad as it looks. In fact, it feels great to play. Also, the controls aren’t too far away (and I’ve not got long arms).

It could be a problem, though, for someone with a protruding gut (not implying you have one, of course ). I’m not without a bit of a gut myself and yes, there are times when it can feel a bit too close to the lower keyboard when reaching for controls. But overall it’s still a great playing experience. Most often, I position myself for playing rather than tweaking. The Prophet 5/10 has never been much of a "tweaker's synth" for me. It's mostly about programming, then playing, using CV pedals. On the OG P-10 you can control more than just filter cutoff with CV pedals (of which there are two) but also pitch, modulation amount, and the VCA.
Old 3rd December 2020 | Show parent
  #5953
Lives for gear
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by maisonvague View Post


The Prophet 5/10 has never been much of a "tweaker's synth" for me. It's mostly about programming, then playing, using CV pedals. On the OG P-10 you can control more than just filter cutoff with CV pedals (of which there are two) but also pitch, modulation amount, and the VCA.
Old 3rd December 2020 | Show parent
  #5954
TJe
Gear Maniac
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by wendell r. View Post
This is one of my favourite of all the demos so far, with I think some of the best sound choices.

Wowww!!!
Old 3rd December 2020
  #5955
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Wow indeed ..
Old 3rd December 2020 | Show parent
  #5956
Gear Head
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by wendell r. View Post
This is one of my favourite of all the demos so far, with I think some of the best sound choices.

This sounds amazing!! I have never been this excited about getting a synth before.
Old 3rd December 2020 | Show parent
  #5957
Lives for gear
 
EBDA1176's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by maisonvague View Post
Mine doesn’t overheat.

I’m also not so sure its reputation was as sullied as you’re making.

But it did have issues. No getting around that.



It’s all good. I’ve already conceded the dual manual P-10 is rather homely.

I still love it, though.



It’s funny you should mention double-neck guitars in connection with the P-10 today because I made just such a connection thinking how, with the passage of prog-rock to the history books and fringes, we aren't likely to see dual-manual synths again.

About the ergonomics, I will assume you’ve never played one (no snark intended btw). It’s not as bad as it looks. In fact, it feels great to play. Also, the controls aren’t too far away (and I’ve not got long arms).

It could be a problem, though, for someone with a protruding gut (not implying you have one, of course ). I’m not without a bit of a gut myself and yes, there are times when it can feel a bit too close to the lower keyboard when reaching for controls. But overall it’s still a great playing experience. Most often, I position myself for playing rather than tweaking. The Prophet 5/10 has never been much of a "tweaker's synth" for me. It's mostly about programming, then playing, using CV pedals. On the OG P-10 you can control more than just filter cutoff with CV pedals (of which there are two) but also pitch, modulation amount, and the VCA.
I meant the single manual rev 1 prophet 10 that they only made a few of then stopped due to overheating, hence the prophet 5 being born instead! The double manual P10 of course didn’t overheat cos of the sheer size and the, I believe, refined components when they returned to making it. I combined all the downsides of OLD Prophet 10s in one list cos the rev 4 is any of this things. Made that clear later with the ref to the early (and thus overheating) ones looking like the rev 4 and looking good.

No my gut doesn’t protrude just looks like bad ergonomics regardless of body shape, fair enough you have one and say it’s not as bad as it looks, I get that, but again...tastes differ and I’ve never found the double manual P10 a particulary good looking synth. It does look dramatic and powerful though and some like that. In other news I’m not a massive fan of the oversized obx/8 with their disproportionate keybed to control panel housing size yet many claim they are beautiful, just tastes.. I like vintage but not things that take function over form to an obvious, early tech impeded, extreme such as these. The prophet 5 however has always look beautiful and still does even with it’s grannies sideboard word panels due t the shape and colouring of said wood. Some classic shapes just work like the telecaster, prophet 5 etc... others were kinda fugly and bodge jobby even at release, usually due to technical limits like heat or component size. Another example is the wart like heatsink stuck on the rear of the Jupiter 8.

Not saying this makes any of those synths undesirable or not classic but certain aspects could be improved. The fact that we can now get a non overheating 10 voice prophet in the “proper” original sleek design is something to be happy about.

I’m not a prog rocker, I will play two keybeds on two diff synths one above the other, when needed, I just never felt that inclination to do that on the same synth with two keybeds, esp one that only has 10 voices anyway... in context , I get how awesome and powerful that feature was back in 1980 as do all the big names who used prophet 10s. In 2020, to me, they just look excessively overblown and a little bit spinal tap.

But I’d have been more than happy to have had one all these years for the main thing, their sound, so congratz on all the years of ownership and the rarity of it.
Old 3rd December 2020 | Show parent
  #5958
Gear Nut
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by theexis View Post
Does this imply it would also be possible to have individual outs per voice, or set of voices? I was thinking back to recent mention of a potential future (unconfirmed) firmware update which would allow layer/split of 2 patches, but since there is only a single MONO out it'd be limited if you wanted different fx for each part.
Both are possible, with the appropriate circuitry in the modification. Neither would require surgery (i.e. cutting of traces) on the existing boards, since they only "tap into" points on the existing signal path. Individual outs per voice would require a few extra chips if you wanted buffered, volume-controlled outputs (the raw voice outputs are REALLY loud, in the neighborhood of 5 volts). An output per set of 5 voices would need about the same circuitry as the panning mod, minus the panpots of course.

In general, as we think about potential new features in firmware updates, keep in mind that it's unlikely that Sequential will spend time implementing new features in firmware that require changes to the stock hardware in order to be really useful. (Just an educated guess)

Quote:
For an experiment I set up a key split using a second sound source instead which worked pretty well if you ignore my questionable music choice
Old 3rd December 2020 | Show parent
  #5959
Lives for gear
 
OurDarkness's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by TechnoRoom View Post
Both are possible, with the appropriate circuitry in the modification. Neither would require surgery (i.e. cutting of traces) on the existing boards, since they only "tap into" points on the existing signal path. Individual outs per voice would require a few extra chips if you wanted buffered, volume-controlled outputs (the raw voice outputs are REALLY loud, in the neighborhood of 5 volts). An output per set of 5 voices would need about the same circuitry as the panning mod, minus the panpots of course.

In general, as we think about potential new features in firmware updates, keep in mind that it's unlikely that Sequential will spend time implementing new features in firmware that require changes to the stock hardware in order to be really useful. (Just an educated guess)
I would gladly pay for these modifications.
Old 3rd December 2020 | Show parent
  #5960
Lives for gear
 
maisonvague's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by EBDA1176 View Post
I meant the single manual rev 1 prophet 10 ... (snip) ... Made that clear later with the ref to the early (and thus overheating) ones looking like the rev 4 and looking good.
Got it. Sorry. I missed that.

Quote:
The prophet 5 however has always look beautiful...
I agree. I have both a Rev 3.3 P-5 and a dual manual P-10.

I call them Beauty and The Beast.

Quote:
In 2020, to me, they just look excessively overblown and a little bit spinal tap.
Yes. They do. I love it.

Quote:
But I’d have been more than happy to have had one all these years for the main thing, their sound, so congratz on all the years of ownership and the rarity of it.
Thanks. And congrats to you on your soon-to-arrive Rev 4.
Old 3rd December 2020 | Show parent
  #5961
Lives for gear
 
Gomjab's Avatar
 
Someone weeks ago asked this question but I can’t find an answer or even the original post now. Found this post from @ seancostello that is relevant to my question.

I just took delivery of a Prophet 10, and like Sean’s mine seems to run between 41C to 45C as indicated after kicking of the tune function.

I would like to hear what temperature range folks are seeing with the Prophet 5 after initial warm up. Just curious how much of a difference the additional voice card makes.

Thanks!
Old 3rd December 2020 | Show parent
  #5962
Lives for gear
 
Deckdaddy's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
My 10 is usually 45 C fully warmed up. I think 48 is the max I’ve seen. My room temp is usually 23-ish C.

Last edited by Deckdaddy; 10th December 2020 at 09:48 PM..
Old 3rd December 2020
  #5963
Lives for gear
 
DesolationBlvd's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
My Prophet-5 reports 37-38C after an hour.
Old 3rd December 2020 | Show parent
  #5964
Gear Maniac
 
toobdude's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by TechnoRoom View Post
I am not privy to Sequential's plans, but have had mine on the bench to analyze the circuitry so I could design a stereo panning modification for the 10 voices. And yes, I believe the unit was designed to allow for this expansion.
Just use this: https://www.musikding.de/Prophet-600-Pan-Mod_1

I put one in my Memorymoog and one in my Rhodes Chroma. Both synths are mono output and the stereo voice panning just transforms them. I plan to write up how I did it ..... eventually. You can just double up the connections of the 10 voices to the 6 inputs of the pan mod board. There are a few resistor changes I had to do to fit it in the MM and Chroma but it was pretty straightforward.

See .....

Memorymoog placement on left; Chroma placement on the right
Attached Thumbnails
New Sequential Prophet 5 and 10-img_0028.jpg   New Sequential Prophet 5 and 10-img_0002-2-.jpg  
Old 3rd December 2020 | Show parent
  #5965
Lives for gear
 
lakeshorephatty's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deckdaddy View Post
My 10 is usually 45 C fullt warmed up. I think 47 is the max I’ve seen. My room temp is usually 23-ish C.
Great sauna for bugs in there
Old 3rd December 2020 | Show parent
  #5966
Lives for gear
 
Gomjab's Avatar
 
Thanks! 5C to 7C difference doesn’t seem bad.
Old 3rd December 2020 | Show parent
  #5967
Lives for gear
 
lakeshorephatty's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gomjab View Post
Thanks! 5C to 7C difference doesn’t seem bad.
Curious if the enclosure (inside surface) is bare wood? I'm wondering what 45C would do to the wood over time
Old 3rd December 2020 | Show parent
  #5968
Lives for gear
 
kpatz's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by lakeshorephatty View Post
Curious if the enclosure (inside surface) is bare wood? I'm wondering what 45C would do to the wood over time
I think the chassis is all metal, and the wood is just panels screwed on afterward. At least some of the pictures of Prophets being assembled that was posted about 1,000 pages ago would seem to indicate such.

Anyone who's been inside theirs should be able to say for certain. Or a Sequential rep.
Old 3rd December 2020 | Show parent
  #5969
Lives for gear
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kpatz View Post
I think the chassis is all metal, and the wood is just panels screwed on afterward. At least some of the pictures of Prophets being assembled that was posted about 1,000 pages ago would seem to indicate such.

Anyone who's been inside theirs should be able to say for certain. Or a Sequential rep.
thx to till

Old 3rd December 2020 | Show parent
  #5970
Gear Nut
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by OurDarkness View Post
I would gladly pay for these modifications.
After I get the circuitry where I want it, I will publish the schematics. Then after I've completed the mod to my unit, I'll see if it makes sense to do it for others. But thanks for the encouragement!
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