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Someone please make a damn rack sampler! Now!!!! Or else...
Old 8th August 2020
  #1
Deleted 231be8b 🎙️
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Someone please make a damn rack sampler! Now!!!! Or else...

I want a sampler.
I want something like an up to date Akai S6000 in rack form.
Detachable control panel with a large colour screen and dedicated knobby controls.
Something with multiple layers, envelopes, LFOs, effects, round robin, granular, time stretching, auto slicing, long sample times, multiple locator trigger points, something which isn't a drum machine or trying to be a DAW.

I can't bring myself to pay silly money for 30+ year old tech, trying to source ancient memory sticks and SCSI drives, trimming loops with 2 line LCD screens and having to wait ages for things to load. I also struggle trying to read Halion and Kontakt on a 4k screen thanks to their tiny little fonts.

With the used prices of mostly junk boxes on ebay starting to go through the roof why can't anyone corner this market and create something modern.. Behringer? Please?
Old 8th August 2020
  #2
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NEXUS-6's Avatar
 

Silly money for a S6000? Last time I looked they were around $600 Its also 20 years old not 30.

You know it was around $3000.00 brand new right? Lets see with the inflation calculator thats about $4.600.00 today. How much do you want to pay for something comparable with 16 outs detachable face large screen usb & everything you mentioned etc?

Theres one on ebay right for $450..
Old 8th August 2020
  #3
Deleted 231be8b 🎙️
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NEXUS-6 View Post
Silly money for a S6000? Last time I looked they were around $600 Its also 20 years old not 30.

You know it was around $3000.00 brand new right? Lets see with the inflation calculator thats about $4.600.00 today. How much do you want to pay for something comparable with 16 outs detachable face large screen usb & everything you mentioned etc?

Theres one on ebay right for $450..
So? I paid £1500 for a 40" 720p LCD TV 15 years ago. Should I buy that same model again used for £500-600 today because inflation would make that £1500 more like £2500?

Are you really arguing against someone creating a modern rack sampler because 20 year old failing screen ones with half their guts ripped out with effects and usb boards gone are still being sold on ebay?

I didn't claim the S6000 was 30 years old. I wasn't talking specifically about the S6000, I mentioned the 2 line LCD display. S900 - 2 line LCD , £1000 on ebay. 1986.

How much do I want to pay? Well an MPC X is £1500 with all its flashy disco light dancing squares. It has multiple outs, great connectivity, large screen, lots of knobs. A rack version of that aimed more at dedicated sampling rather than creating "beatz" would be a good start.

Last edited by Deleted 231be8b; 8th August 2020 at 01:21 AM..
Old 8th August 2020
  #4
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ArtFluids's Avatar
I’d like one as well.
Because to me:
Rack = serious business
Rack = multi-timbral
Rack = full keyboard range

We need something worthy of the Akai/Ensoniq legacy. Vintage sampling modes would just be a cherry on top.
Old 8th August 2020
  #5
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtFluids View Post
I’d like one as well.
Because to me:
Rack = serious business
Rack = multi-timbral
Rack = full keyboard range

We need something worthy of the Akai/Ensoniq legacy. Vintage sampling modes would just be a cherry on top.
Please do NOT let todays Akai try to do it.
Old 8th August 2020
  #6
Gear Maniac
 
DEVO1982's Avatar
Yup, feel the same way about ‘vintage’ overpriced dinosaur samplers.

Been waiting for a while now and hope that Dave Rossum makes another sampler besides the Eurorack Assimil8tor maybe in cahoots with Dave Smith from Sequential. Other than these guys who could make one in their sleep I don’t ever see it really happening....
Old 8th August 2020
  #7
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ArtFluids's Avatar
Dave Rossum needs to make a rack sampler that crosses the Assimil8or and the Z-Plane filters.

My dream:
16x Stereo Assimil8or tracks. Each with its own stereo Z-Plane filter. 128 voices. Workstation-grade sequencer if possible.
Old 8th August 2020
  #8
There are some rackmount kits about for the Elektron models.
Old 8th August 2020
  #9
Lives for gear
Nobody is going to build anything you want. There is plenty of cheap S6000 or Z4/Z8 available on the used market already.
Old 8th August 2020
  #10
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pr0gr4m's Avatar
I guess we are gonna get one of these threads every other month or so now, eh?
Old 8th August 2020
  #11
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ArtFluids's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by pr0gr4m View Post
I guess we are gonna get one of these threads every other month or so now, eh?
Beatings will continue until morale improves
Old 8th August 2020
  #12
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NY___'s Avatar
I guess what is this persons market? the need for auxes-to-sample x 3 - reloop buffered to alter at any whim? I just don't know what they are asking for - but it seems valid.
Old 8th August 2020
  #13
Gear Maniac
No real market. Most of the people who don't want a "dinosaur" sampler are happy to use a computer; dinosaur samplers are cheap and plentiful and some people want the experience of working with them. For the in between, there's the Iridium/Quantum/Prophet X.
Old 8th August 2020
  #14
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ArtFluids's Avatar
I wish VST samplers allowed you to record samples directly into them from my audio interface instead of just opening files. I’d love to skip that step. Instead I just have to have Audacity open in another window. I want to record, play it on the keys and then throw it away if it sucks. Instead of manually trimming, naming, saving and then locating the sound before I can see how it sounds in a plugin sampler.
I would love for TAL Sampler to have like a threshold based recording screen just like old samplers. I just don’t think the VST spec allows for it.

CMI V would be killer if you could use it that way too.

I think this is one of the things Reason can do. If I remember.
Old 8th August 2020
  #15
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NY___'s Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by wooderson View Post
No real market. Most of the people who don't want a "dinosaur" sampler are happy to use a computer; dinosaur samplers are cheap and plentiful and some people want the experience of working with them. For the in between, there's the Iridium/Quantum/Prophet X.
Do you honestly think that "if people wanted dinosaurs" there would not be individual modules for just that fact? - must be something there? or are we both missing something?
Old 8th August 2020
  #16
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtFluids View Post
I think this is one of the things Reason can do. If I remember.
Yep. Just one virtual cable connection to make from the source to be sampled and you can then sample from that source into any of the sampler instruments in Reason. Audio sources include any internal audio too, so resampling is easy.

Old 8th August 2020
  #17
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NY___'s Avatar
VST? I thought the topic was about hardware.. Not to knock the technique (you are very talented) , but it doesn't apply to the thread.
Old 8th August 2020
  #18
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NEXUS-6's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarcB View Post
I want a sampler.
I want something like an up to date Akai S6000 in rack form.
Detachable control panel with a large colour screen and dedicated knobby controls.
Something with multiple layers, envelopes, LFOs, effects, round robin, granular, time stretching, auto slicing, long sample times, multiple locator trigger points, something which isn't a drum machine or trying to be a DAW.

I can't bring myself to pay silly money for 30+ year old tech, trying to source ancient memory sticks and SCSI drives, trimming loops with 2 line LCD screens and having to wait ages for things to load. I also struggle trying to read Halion and Kontakt on a 4k screen thanks to their tiny little fonts.

With the used prices of mostly junk boxes on ebay starting to go through the roof why can't anyone corner this market and create something modern.. Behringer? Please?
The entitlement is strong in this one.
Old 8th August 2020
  #19
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ArtFluids's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by ambiguous signal View Post
Yep. Just one virtual cable connection to make from the source to be sampled and you can then sample from that source into any of the sampler instruments in Reason. Audio sources include any internal audio too, so resampling is easy.

Yeah, this is the way I like it. Would love this with TAL Sampler and CMI V. Maybe I should spend more time with Renoise, because it can record samples straight from the interface too.
Feels much closer to working with hardware.
Old 8th August 2020
  #20
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ArtFluids's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by NY___ View Post
VST? I thought the topic was about hardware.. Not to knock the technique (you are very talented) , but it doesn't apply to the thread.
Only reason I bring it up is because that immediate sampling is one of the reasons I like working with my ASR-10 or OP-1 (when I had it). Everything felt like I could just throw it into a track in a pinch.
It's probably my main hangup with hardware vs software.
Old 8th August 2020
  #21
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NY___'s Avatar
It is alright and appreciation for better techniques is always appreciated. Just thought this was focusing on "why there is not a eurorack example of this - (which there is) but I thought that was the lineage of the conversation. my bad unless anyone cared to explain if it went further from there?
Old 8th August 2020
  #22
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by NY___ View Post
Do you honestly think that "if people wanted dinosaurs" there would not be individual modules for just that fact? - must be something there? or are we both missing something?
There are - 20 years of rack samplers available via Reverb and EBay. If you want 12 bit crunch you can get a rack sampler from 1987; if you want the highest fidelity and bigger screens/interfaces, you can get a rack sampler from 2002.

Almost all for less than any company could produce a new one (which would immediately be derided as lacking the mojo of an old sampler anyway).

That's why there's no market. If the 2002 sampler's interface isn't good enough for you, computers.

The vast majority of the market today doesn't have a studio set up for rack gear anyway, so desktops (Iridium) and keyboards (Quantum, Prophet X) are the options that are available.
Old 8th August 2020
  #23
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by NY___ View Post
It is alright and appreciation for better techniques is always appreciated. Just thought this was focusing on "why there is not a eurorack example of this - (which there is) but I thought that was the lineage of the conversation. my bad unless anyone cared to explain if it went further from there?
The OP asked for a rack sampler, not a Eurorack sampler?
Old 8th August 2020
  #24
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NY___'s Avatar
True. Not gonna argue here.
Old 8th August 2020
  #25
Gear Nut
 
Dequadix's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtFluids View Post
I wish VST samplers allowed you to record samples directly into them from my audio interface instead of just opening files. I’d love to skip that step. Instead I just have to have Audacity open in another window. I want to record, play it on the keys and then throw it away if it sucks. Instead of manually trimming, naming, saving and then locating the sound before I can see how it sounds in a plugin sampler.
I would love for TAL Sampler to have like a threshold based recording screen just like old samplers. I just don’t think the VST spec allows for it.

CMI V would be killer if you could use it that way too.

I think this is one of the things Reason can do. If I remember.
NI Absynth?
Old 8th August 2020
  #26
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by NEXUS-6 View Post
The entitlement is strong in this one.
Totally useless post, adds nothing but negativity


With that said

I also want a hardware rack sampler that can you could sample in all old school ways and with different playback settings, 8 bit, 12 bit, 16 bit, variable clock rate, fixed clock rate with linear interpolation, drop sample interpolation, sinc ect. Then I could get rid of my 4 other samplers I use now
Old 8th August 2020
  #27
Gear Nut
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtFluids View Post
I wish VST samplers allowed you to record samples directly into them from my audio interface instead of just opening files.
Just tested this with the Renoise Redux VSTi, it can do it as well. It's a bit tricky to find, you need to go into the Editor view, click on Waveforms and find the Record button. And it only samples from the input of the DAW's mix channel, so you need to have already armed the track on your DAW to the correct audio interface input. But it's possible.

Obviously the Renoise DAW can record directly from the audio interface into samples too.
Old 8th August 2020
  #28
Deleted 231be8b 🎙️
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by wooderson View Post
There are - 20 years of rack samplers available via Reverb and EBay. If you want 12 bit crunch you can get a rack sampler from 1987; if you want the highest fidelity and bigger screens/interfaces, you can get a rack sampler from 2002.
Quote:
Originally Posted by camus2 View Post
Nobody is going to build anything you want. There is plenty of cheap S6000 or Z4/Z8 available on the used market already.
The last rack sampler created was what? Akai Z4/Z8, Roland VP-9000, 20 years ago?

So I should just be happy and go and buy an overpriced 20 year old failing piece of hardware because CPU power hasn't moved on, as user interface design hasn't moved on, as connectivity of devices hasn't moved on, storage speeds and amounts haven't moved on?

How would you feel if the only synths available to buy were in 49 note keyboard form or the only effects units available were awkward shaped desktops?

I don't have space to fill with desktop units, I dislike having 2x midi cables , 10x audio, 1x usb, 1x power trailing all over the place and prefer my gear racked out of the way. I also don't wish to use multiple sequencers and try and sync them all together.

You only have to look at devices like a Eurorack sampler like say Morphagene or Bitbox to see that sampling has moved on a lot in 20 years and that those old devices are severely crippled due to low modulation routings, memory and CPU power.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pr0gr4m View Post
I guess we are gonna get one of these threads every other month or so now, eh?
Yes. Just like we get other types of similar threads each month like "what synth?" or "how do I make this sound?". I think I made the subject of the thread quite clear in the title and you aren't forced to read it or take part in it.

Last edited by Deleted 231be8b; 8th August 2020 at 10:10 AM..
Old 8th August 2020
  #29
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarcB View Post
The last rack sampler created was what? Akai Z4/Z8, Roland VP-9000, 20 years ago?

So I should just be happy and go and buy an overpriced 20 year old failing piece of hardware because CPU power hasn't moved on, as user interface design hasn't moved on, as connectivity of devices hasn't moved on, storage speeds and amounts haven't moved on?
... yes?

You're demanding something that there isn't a market for, I'm just explaining why there isn't a market for it, ie you can either use your computer as one massively powerful sampler (as most people are happy to do) or you can buy one of the old cheap ones that are still perfectly usable. Or you can split the difference and buy one of the currently-on-the-market samplers that will do the job.


Quote:
How would you feel if the only synths available to buy were in 49 note keyboard form or the only effects units available were awkward shaped desktops?
If my desired form of hardware synth was so unloved that no one made one, I'd use what's available - or if hardware was completely gone, I'd either use plugins or old synths. If a Prophet 5 or Jupiter-8 cost as much as a S950 I would be over the moon, actually.


Quote:
I don't have space to fill with desktop units, I dislike having 2x midi cables , 10x audio, 1x usb, 1x power trailing all over the place and prefer my gear racked out of the way. I also don't wish to use multiple sequencers and try and sync them all together.
Sounds like you're the perfect use-case for any number of samplers available on PC or Mac!

Quote:
You only have to look at devices like a Eurorack sampler like say Morphagene or Bitbox to see that sampling has moved on a lot in 20 years and that those old devices are severely crippled due to low modulation routings, memory and CPU power.
The Morphagene and Bitbox don't serve the same purposes as rack samplers, hence they don't have cheap "vintage" competition (being that the Blackbox desktop is cheaper than a MPC).

It is a niche audience that would rather use a hardware sampler than Kontakt/TAL/etc... It's an even smaller niche in 2020 that would prefer it in rack format rather than with a big shiny touchscreen ala the Iridium.
Old 8th August 2020
  #30
Deleted 231be8b 🎙️
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by wooderson View Post
... yes?
Oh ok. I'll just pass you my credit card and let you choose what I should and shouldn't want.

Quote:
You're demanding something that there isn't a market for, I'm just explaining why there isn't a market for it, ie you can either use your computer as one massively powerful sampler (as most people are happy to do) or you can buy one of the old cheap ones that are still perfectly usable. Or you can split the difference and buy one of the currently-on-the-market samplers that will do the job.
I know what options are currently available, it's what I've been using. How do you know there's no market for one as nobody has made one in 20 years?
Current samplers not in rack form seem to be doing perfectly well with new additions and updates being added every few months. You're basing your assumption on something which doesn't exist.


Quote:
The Morphagene and Bitbox don't serve the same purposes as rack samplers, hence they don't have cheap "vintage" competition (being that the Blackbox desktop is cheaper than a MPC).

It is a niche audience that would rather use a hardware sampler than Kontakt/TAL/etc... It's an even smaller niche in 2020 that would prefer it in rack format rather than with a big shiny touchscreen ala the Iridium.
Morphagene and Bitbox were examples of what is being done with samples today. They are samplers with lots of modulation routings and audio manipulation settings in line with todays technology, rather than clones of the technology of 20 years ago. They are streamlined examples of what should be possible with a modern sampler.

Let me be clear. At no point did I state that I wanted a clone of a 20 year old sampler. My request is for a sampler capable of all the sound manipulation of modern tech but placed in a rack mount box rather than a desktop unit which doubles as a drum machine or another sequencer.

Quote:
Sounds like you're the perfect use-case for any number of samplers available on PC or Mac!
I have a number of samplers on PC, thanks. I prefer dedicated control surfaces to mouse/keyboard control.
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