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Someone please make a damn rack sampler! Now!!!! Or else...
Old 10th August 2020
  #151
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I could see a Behringer Sampler with a CV patch bay that is intended to sample sounds from a modular, turn those into polyphonic patches, and it could also route internal sounds through a modular for processing and resampling. They could throw in the FX engine from the DM12 while they’re at it for additional flexibility.
Old 10th August 2020
  #152
Ksp
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Synthpark View Post
IWhat makes you sure that the S series sound is better than Kontakt and a lot of other software samplers?

Workflow matters a lot. You start ableton or Reason or any other DAW and the first step is not to transfer or load large amounts of sample data. Everything is self-contained. I find that very important.
.
I based my opionions really on experience , s950 user since 1992 , i bought an s6000 when they first came out , i tried to sell them all when kontakt became big , i worked every day on music since 1990 pretty much and with abletons simpler and every other itb sampler as well.

All i have is my ears and years mixing and mastering music and writing it with both new and old workflows.


I personally cant replace the hardware and yes its more of a pain in the arse to use but strangely i find that leads me to creative results software does not , i am not sure how but that limited ram helps me and i really dislike the blandness of software and the fact you then need a ton of vst processing etc to get it anywhere near the older hardware sound and even then its still got some horrible sheen that hardware does not as you taking a pure sound and processing it endlessly in some attempt to make it just sound ' ok ' , its odd , i can load sounds into an old akai , trigger them and boom , instantly the sound , in kontakt ? no , i spend days adding vst processing or nebula just to get something half decent.

I use to chase the ' speed flow ' workflow but i think its a bit of a fallacy that this is the key to good creative work and happiness , sometimes a slow workflow empowers the mind to focus more in the same way limited ram means you really work sounds in new creative ways.

When i have attempted to do pure itb sampler tracks no matter how much i post processed the sounds i still ended up going to the hardware as i just prefer the sound and vibe.

I only have my personal experience to judge by annd personal taste.
Old 10th August 2020
  #153
Gear Nut
 

I wanted a brand new hardware sampler a several years back but having used the MPC Live, Maschine, Kontakt and the incredible Serato Sampler I really can't see the point now. If you really must have a rack sampler you can't really go wrong with a Z4 or S5000 as they are still affordable and highly specced and easy to convert to SD storage, Z4 has USB storage anyway.
Old 10th August 2020
  #154
Lives for gear
 

I'd pay big bucks for a sampler with kick ass analog stages, dsd NO PCM, and analog filters.
Old 10th August 2020
  #155
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was silents's Avatar
Couldn't an MPC Live just sit in a slide-out rack tray? Maybe I'm missing the point.
Old 10th August 2020
  #156
Gear Guru
 
zerocrossing's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by dflt View Post
i tried. korg gadget, samplr, garage band... it's nice and fun for playing around a little but i couldn't convince myself to really do actual work with my ipad. i need knobs and buttons. in a few days i get a new ipad and will try to connect my old ur44 as audio/midi-interface. but more to use it as an external fx-processor for my mixer.
Yeah, I don’t think it’s an environment where I could do all my work either, but it’s a great supplement to what I already have. At least, that’s what I’m finding. For instance, I’ve been using software granulators for years. They sound great and are really fun, but there’s only so much that can be done using basic MIDI controllers. When you’ve got a multi-touch interface where you can dig in and really play it, it becomes really fun in a different way.
Old 10th August 2020
  #157
Gear Nut
 

Just seen the price of hardware samplers on Ebay and they've quadrupled in the last couple of years, what's caused this and are they selling or is this pure greed like vintage synth prices?
Old 10th August 2020
  #158
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by grabme View Post
Just seen the price of hardware samplers on Ebay and they've quadrupled in the last couple of years, what's caused this and are they selling or is this pure greed like vintage synth prices?
More people are making electronic music, and even if it is a small minority of them, that means more people are making electronic music without a computer. If you are making electronic music without a computer, you pretty much need sampler. New samplers are pretty much all sample/sequencer combinations that don't offer all the functionality of the older units. Supply & Demand.
Old 10th August 2020
  #159
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The worst gear I have owned have been rack samplers.. no idea why would aomebody wanna have that workflow
Old 10th August 2020
  #160
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Stoneblack's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by wooderson View Post
Well, his response to simple statements that there does not seem to be an actual market for one was to call people "village idiots" and "shills" (for what, God only knows).
Fair enough. I didn't find it interesting enough to figure out who started it, and my mom would always say that didn't matter, everyone should just chill the **** out. Its just a thread about something one guy thinks would be cool and someone else doesn't then it goes all sideways with people not being their best selves. op is not immune from this criticism and calling names is no good. I really don't like that aspect of this place tbh.
Old 10th August 2020
  #161
Deleted 231be8b 🎙️
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wooderson View Post
Well, his response to simple statements that there does not seem to be an actual market for one was to call people "village idiots" and "shills" (for what, God only knows).
I didn't ask for your opinion of if there was a market for one, that's what you and others turned this thread in to. I posted that I wanted a new hardware rack sampler, but that seemed to bother some people. Why is that?

Quote:
Originally Posted by grabme View Post
Just seen the price of hardware samplers on Ebay and they've quadrupled in the last couple of years, what's caused this and are they selling or is this pure greed like vintage synth prices?
This is my point. The price is rising on rack samplers, people must want them.

Last edited by Deleted 231be8b; 10th August 2020 at 10:26 PM..
Old 10th August 2020
  #162
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deleted 231be8b View Post
I didn't ask for your opinion of if there was a market for one, that's what you and others turned this thread in to. I posted that I wanted a new hardware rack sampler, but that seemed to bother some people. Why is that?
No one was bothered or objected to it. Several of us have just said it's unlikely and explained why. Because it's a discussion forum and people discuss things in those.

If you just wanted to post a wish list, there are probably better places for it.
Old 10th August 2020
  #163
Deleted 231be8b 🎙️
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wooderson View Post
No one was bothered or objected to it. Several of us have just said it's unlikely and explained why. Because it's a discussion forum and people discuss things in those.

If you just wanted to post a wish list, there are probably better places for it.
well there was a tantrum part way through the thread. You stuck around long enough to post your valuable insight on why it shouldn't happen for long enough.

go figure.

I'm glad you're also now a mod on who should post what and where. Congratulations.
Old 10th August 2020
  #164
Gear Head
 

You guys need to all chill, Jesus Christ there's more important things going on in the world... Now gimme my asr-10 vst
Old 10th August 2020
  #165
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deleted 231be8b View Post
I'm glad you're also now a mod on who should post what and where. Congratulations.
If you expected no discussion, a discussion forum was probably the wrong place to post?
Old 11th August 2020
  #166
Gear Nut
 

the real question is why no one makes something comparable to legendary samplers (12 bit crunch, simplicity, analog filter, you name it…), but with modern era RAM and storage, in a desktop format.
as for the rack format, if someone gave me racks for free I wouldn't even take them.
Old 11th August 2020
  #167
Gear Addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by naos View Post
the real question is why no one makes something comparable to legendary samplers (12 bit crunch, simplicity, analog filter, you name it…), but with modern era RAM and storage, in a desktop format.
as for the rack format, if someone gave me racks for free I wouldn't even take them.
take a look at the the Isla S2400, the SP1200 remake that's currently ready for production with everything you've just described...

https://www.islainstruments.com/product/s2400/

and here's the thread ISLA Instruments S2400

Last edited by millionmiles; 11th August 2020 at 04:32 AM..
Old 11th August 2020
  #168
Gear Guru
 
zerocrossing's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by sds1fs1r View Post
What are a few great apps?
Depends on what you want. iMaschine is a good basic groove box and sampler. For fancy sequencing I use Patterning. iDensity and Borderlands are great for granular stuff. Moog’s Animoog is an interesting take on wavetable synthesis. I use djay to take samples and “scratch” them. TC-11 is an excellent modular that’s got an interesting interface for playing. miRack is an amazing modular with many of the Mutable Instruments modules ported.

I’m just starting to get into it, but those are some of the most interesting finds I’ve come across.
Old 11th August 2020
  #169
Gear Guru
 
zerocrossing's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deleted 231be8b View Post
This is my point. The price is rising on rack samplers, people must want them.
It’s hard to say if they’re becoming more popular or they have a set fan base and they’re starting to fail so people are snapping up the remaining ones that are in decent shape. Doesn’t hurt to keep an extra of something on hand if it’s crucial to you and there’s nothing equivalent being made.
Old 11th August 2020
  #170
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shreddoggie's Avatar
This thread:

Old 11th August 2020
  #171
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Sjeff's Avatar
 

I dont get why people find the 19" rack format so annoying. Imo its the best formfactor, because it can be so compact. Got a masteringstyledesk with 20u in it for al my outboard gear, samplers, synths, psu. I wish more companies would make rackgear, or with the option to rack it.
Old 11th August 2020
  #172
Deleted 231be8b 🎙️
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zerocrossing View Post
It’s hard to say if they’re becoming more popular or they have a set fan base and they’re starting to fail so people are snapping up the remaining ones that are in decent shape. Doesn’t hurt to keep an extra of something on hand if it’s crucial to you and there’s nothing equivalent being made.
Maybe. I think a lot of people are moving away from DAWs for their sequencing. Using sampler/sequencers like Octatrack ,which are mono with limited outputs, and realising multi-sampled instrument type sounds can be done more effectively on the old rack samplers than they can on their desktop boxes.

I'm here hoping someone makes something like O_C/Pams New workout for modulation sources + Morphagene+Bitbox type sampler with all the internal routings and filters done in a similar way to the Hydrasynth. If something like that could be made say 8-16 note poly/multi, for the right price then I would ditch my modular completely.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wooderson View Post
If you expected no discussion, a discussion forum was probably the wrong place to post?
Seeing that you're quite condescending about this whole thing, out of curiosity what experience have you had with hardware samplers, ie what have you used and how long?

Quote:
Originally Posted by naos View Post
if someone gave me racks for free I wouldn't even take them.
I almost feel the same way about desktop units. I just have no space for them at all. The limited space I have is set for the mixer and master keyboard with a few small choice desktop units which can fit. I have to be selective on what to buy and can only choose equipment which will fit in a rack. I'm missing out on some great instruments because of this.

Last edited by Deleted 231be8b; 11th August 2020 at 03:11 PM..
Old 11th August 2020
  #173
Ksp
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sjeff View Post
I dont get why people find the 19" rack format so annoying. Imo its the best formfactor, because it can be so compact. Got a masteringstyledesk with 20u in it for al my outboard gear, samplers, synths, psu. I wish more companies would make rackgear, or with the option to rack it.
i think its more the studio layout , i find for rack stuff that needs a fair bit of screen editing you need it close to a master keyboard and in your main work area and in easy reach unless your editing with some remote software .

I noticed a lot of people have rack gear in a working space miles from were they work and in that case its a total pain in the ass sometimes .

Some rack stuff is not a problem , i keep all my screen editing racks close and all my remote / Sounddiver controlled synth racks i keep in a stack out of the way , its all in your studio layout.
Old 11th August 2020
  #174
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ksp View Post
i think its more the studio layout , i find for rack stuff that needs a fair bit of screen editing you need it close to a master keyboard and in your main work area and in easy reach unless your editing with some remote software .
+1.

For any machine that you need to interact with regularly, ergonomics become really important (possibly at the risk of stating the obvious!).

This is especially true of hardware samplers.

As others have pointed out on this thread, there are a lot of frequent housekeeping duties involved with sampling, ranging from sample editing to sample file administration that can literally give you carpal tunnel syndrome if you're not super careful (speaking here from firsthand experience).

I'm not really sure a touchscreen would really help solve this problem for something that's mounted in a rack.

So maybe the solution is a hybrid rack mount / desktop design. Akai S6000 meets the Roland V-Synth XT rack, with a dedicated docking station that's permanently rackmounted.

You can use it on your desk when you have to really get to work on these tasks, but then you put it back into the docking station when you're done.
Old 11th August 2020
  #175
Gear Guru
 
zerocrossing's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deleted 231be8b View Post
Maybe. I think a lot of people are moving away from DAWs for their sequencing. Using sampler/sequencers like Octatrack ,which are mono with limited outputs, and realising multi-sampled instrument type sounds can be done more effectively on the old rack samplers than they can on their desktop boxes.
Maybe, but I have a hard time thinking that people will abandon DAWs en masse for old rack samplers. Maybe for a workstation keyboard, but an old rack sampler? Were any of them a joy to work with?
Old 11th August 2020
  #176
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by zerocrossing View Post
Maybe, but I have a hard time thinking that people will abandon DAWs en masse for old rack samplers. Maybe for a workstation keyboard, but an old rack sampler? Were any of them a joy to work with?
The S1000 workflow is rather nice for non mangler sample duties IMO. The rack sits right below my mixer and in front of my master keyboard. It's the most straight forward and efficient sampling setup I've put together. Sounds great too.
Old 11th August 2020
  #177
Deleted 231be8b 🎙️
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by zerocrossing View Post
Maybe, but I have a hard time thinking that people will abandon DAWs en masse for old rack samplers. Maybe for a workstation keyboard, but an old rack sampler? Were any of them a joy to work with?
Nobody is saying people are giving DAWs up for a rack sampler.

People are already skipping DAWs completely for hardware sequencer/sampler set ups though. Go the Elektron forums and look at their set ups. A rack sampler is an ideal addition to those type of set ups.

Were any of the older synths a joy to work with either? JD-990, MKS-80, etc. Not much difference programming an ADSR envelope on a synth vs ADSR on a sampler.

My old A3000 was a bit of a pain due to the complexity of the synth, with my S6000 I didn't need to even read of the manual but it was more limited vs the A3000.
Old 11th August 2020
  #178
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what is needed is a free sample program creation utility, where you drag'n'drop samples onto draggable zones mapped by key/midi note# and velocity split.

Last edited by ibtl; 11th August 2020 at 08:20 PM..
Old 11th August 2020
  #179
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shreddoggie's Avatar
Its really not that hard.
Some people want to have a non-computer electronic music setup.
Some of those people want traditional sampler functions as opposed to the sampling drum machine / looper type that is more common these days.
Those people would like a rack sampler they can load into and/or create huge multi-sampled keygrouped libraries.
Lots of midi and audio I/O is nice.
Sitting with your gear not being a computer is nice.
I have an S5000 with 256 mb RAM and an SD card I use for exactly such function.
I can imagine how nice it would be to have some modern enhancements.
Faster CPUs and storage as well as real time pitch/time functions are nice.

This does not mean that there is a (sufficiently substantial) market for it to actually happen, but it is certainly a valid desire for some.

Old 11th August 2020
  #180
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crufty's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by gear_up View Post
I'm not really sure a touchscreen would really help solve this problem for something that's mounted in a rack.
Totes magotes!

Earlier in the thread—thats why a web based smartphone/tablet/desktop interface would be pretty swank imo and reduce total cost. Its not like wave editing has to be sample accurate.

Usb based apps are dodgy tho.
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