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Best acoustic/orchestral sounds from HARDWARE
Old 16th July 2020
  #31
Ksp
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Dairy View Post
Sequential Prophet X
Nord Electro
Yamaha Montage
Korg Wavestate
Roland Fantom
Kurzweil K2600r , i still think its one of the best options on the planet with the classical card etc , highly convincing classical sounds at times , the woodwinds are amazing , seriously underated , they make most synths sound pale and a lot of kontakt libraries also.
Old 16th July 2020
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Dairy View Post
Can reverb help make dated strings sound better?
Sure, doubling, chorus, reverb, anything will help :-)

Or

Dated strings are already better!

Take your pick :-)

What strings are you talking about anyway?
Old 16th July 2020
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Dairy View Post
Can reverb help make dated strings sound better?
Heck yeah, it'll make them sound lusher if it's good reverb, and give them a sense of space. But it won't make them sound "realer", of course. Some reverbs add a metallic twang, or a grainy tail. Some reverbs smear the dry and wet sounds together, some seem to remain separate, some are dense, some are delicate.
Old 16th July 2020
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ksp View Post
Kurzweil K2600r , i still think its one of the best options on the planet with the classical card etc , highly convincing classical sounds at times , the woodwinds are amazing , seriously underated , they make most synths sound pale and a lot of kontakt libraries also.
The new strings rom is also amazing.
And dear God do I love my K2661's... I have 3 of them.
But TBH those KApro lib blows them all out of the water.
I would like to have a kronos now.
Old 16th July 2020
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ksp View Post
Kurzweil K2600r , i still think its one of the best options on the planet with the classical card etc , highly convincing classical sounds at times , the woodwinds are amazing , seriously underated , they make most synths sound pale and a lot of kontakt libraries also.
What I really like about the Kurzweil orchestral ROM is how playable it is. I have the two E-Mu orchestral ROMs in a Command Station, and the samples are good, but they don't respond to velocity very well. I can fire up a string or horn patch on my K2661 or K2500R and just play and it is much easier for me to get the nuances correct.
Old 16th July 2020
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ksp View Post
Kurzweil K2600r , i still think its one of the best options on the planet with the classical card etc , highly convincing classical sounds at times , the woodwinds are amazing , seriously underated , they make most synths sound pale and a lot of kontakt libraries also.
+1 on the K2600! I had an XS and used it on many films. The Orch sounds are excellent (with the additional Orchestral sound card).
Old 16th July 2020
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyWriter View Post
Sure, doubling, chorus, reverb, anything will help :-)

Or

Dated strings are already better!

Take your pick :-)

What strings are you talking about anyway?
XV 5080 strings I have just now. They sound horribly dated to me. I am considering a Fantom but the strings seem to be the worst out of all options.

I think the Fantom has XV/JV strings but also strings from the SRX cards (not sure how much better they are) and also now some Supernatural strings. Even these don't seem anything spectacular, I watched some comparison videos with the Montage and to me that seemed to come out on top comfortably.
Old 16th July 2020
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Dairy View Post
XV 5080 strings I have just now. They sound horribly dated to me. I am considering a Fantom but the strings seem to be the worst out of all options.

I think the Fantom has XV/JV strings but also strings from the SRX cards (not sure how much better they are) and also now some Supernatural strings. Even these don't seem anything spectacular, I watched some comparison videos with the Montage and to me that seemed to come out on top comfortably.
Oh sure, I've got those on my 3080. They do sound dated :-) I have a lot of dated sounds though. You can dress it up, but at the core there are better strings samples these days. Even KRONOS strings are a magnitude 'better' than the older stuff. But it has it's charm. I would part with it.
Old 16th July 2020
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scoopicman View Post
Well, some of those French horns were multisamples from Funk & Soul Brass. I made my own programs out of them. The big brass sections were from Epic Composer (131, 132, 133, 134) and 5th Element.
I have to say I might be converted now... I've always appreciated orchestral strings, but until now I've been lukewarm to spending $$$ for endless variations of string articulations and sections. The Epic Composer strings are inspiringly realistic and good. The Duduk and Cello, for example

And so many French horns... Jackpot!

Still, I'm wondering what Kurt has against low brass? There are probably a couple hundred variations on strings, a good deal of choirs, a variety of ethnic instruments (if only one velocity), a decent collection of pipe organs, various orchestral percussion, woodwinds (although a bit skimp here as well), and wide sampling of exotic instruments and sounds (Nebelhorn, thunder, Erhu, etc). It was even thought necessary to include various analog pads and basses. So there's a great variety of multisamples here, except.....

I'm missing the orchestral tenor and bass trombones -- was hoping for options for lots of velocity layers. How can a symphonic orchestra be properly called "Epic" without lots of low brass? Moar trombones!

Also more tuba, any euphonium or baritone, orchestral trum-pets and cornets. There's like one Flugelhorn =/...

I'm going to try out EXs116 Power Brass, but that just looks like more stage brass and sections, similar to EXs19 Funk and Soul Brass.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scoopicman
I also use KSL and KUO (EXs 50, 51). Those last two can be had for cheap. The Pirate brass and staccato orch stabs come from KUO. Great spiccato strings in both.
I'm about to load and audition these as well. Although I'm not expecting much... looks like all the brass programs are just re-using the already included EXs3 Brass expansion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scoopicman
I prefer to program his multisamples into sounds that get more polyphony and split points, like that very first spiccato layers program in the video. A cross-switch uses half the poly of a cross-fade. I also tend to toss out the wavesequenced layers for that reason. They're nice in a single program, but they take too many resources from big ensembles.
Interesting also to see how Kurt used wavesequencing's Note Advance to round robin samples. Sort of cheated by just repeatedly using the same sample, but just alternated between the normal sample and a detuned version of itself (-1 cent, +100 fine detune).

Polyphony is definitely an issue to keep in mind with orchestral stuff. I'm thinking maybe bouncing down to audio tracks might help? I guess I've got a lot of work ahead of me paring down the solo and section instruments to just what can be used regularly... I can only imagine the housekeeping you've done on yours through the years. After all, tight bank space on the Kronos / Oasys is still an issue... 14 just isn't enough. At least now I understand how to selectively load / unload KSCs and PCGs and old backups.

Mike, thanks for the suggestions. Should've done this long ago.
Old 16th July 2020
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ksp View Post
Kurzweil K2600r , i still think its one of the best options on the planet with the classical card etc , highly convincing classical sounds at times , the woodwinds are amazing , seriously underated , they make most synths sound pale and a lot of kontakt libraries also.
I have to admit that I've not fully gotten rid of my curiosity for Kurzweil.

Still, why K2600 instead of a PC3K or Forte or PC4? Don't the more recent models have the same access to older multisamples? And more?

I'd imagine with newer multisamples, newer features, and more DSP power, anyone looking to try out Kurzweil would want to get the modern machines? On Reverb recently a K2600RS was going for about two grand. For just a bit more, you can get a PC4...


EDIT: After a bit of research, I see that the K2600rs is still a viable solution for 4 solid reasons:
1) it's a rack, 2) access to VAST, 3) access to KDFX, and 4) sampling ability.

The PC2r was released in 2000, is much cheaper used, but is only a 4-timbre rompler... no VAST and no sample import.
Old 16th July 2020
  #41
Quote:
Originally Posted by psionic11 View Post
I'm missing the orchestral tenor and bass trombones -- was hoping for options for lots of velocity layers. How can a symphonic orchestra be properly called "Epic" without lots of low brass? Moar trombones!
Good low horns on the 5th Element (EXs 222). You won't find a lot of layers, but the sections are goooood.



Quote:
Polyphony is definitely an issue to keep in mind with orchestral stuff. I'm thinking maybe bouncing down to audio tracks might help?
I have a bank dedicated to low poly programs. Many of them use a single note per key, but may have cross-switching.[/quote]


Quote:
I can only imagine the housekeeping you've done on yours through the years. After all, tight bank space on the Kronos / Oasys is still an issue... 14 just isn't enough.
If you take the 11 GM banks out, there are 20 banks to overwrite. I just pick whatever programs I want for a particular project, then save program banks, with each project. I'm not a big combi player, so I'll save where ever I need.



Quote:
I'm about to load and audition these as well. Although I'm not expecting much... looks like all the brass programs are just re-using the already included EXs3 Brass expansion.
There are some multisamples that are unique to KSL/KUO. That Pirate horn has a lot of variations, as it is a bright, strong source to begin with. Some of the filtering really changes it up. A couple of good staccato brass samples in there, too. The KUO orch sections are full of brass, but mixed with the other sounds. They are very useful, though.
Old 17th July 2020
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scoopicman View Post
Good low horns on the 5th Element (EXs 222). You won't find a lot of layers, but the sections are goooood.
There were a good number of brass multisamples there in 5th Element, thanks for the tip. Nice variety of brass section swells.

But the mother lode was in EXs116 Power Brass, much to my surprise. Plenty of different trombones and trum-pets, and with several velocities to boot, all the way from piano to fortissimo (p - ff). Only about half are the blatty stage horns, so using the smoother multisamples layered with the other EXs orchestral brass sections should make some really full-sounding and expressive brass. Stoked.

I got the audition process down to just loading the KSCs (and not the entire bank of programs), then going to an INIT program OSC, then selecting the Expansion by name so I can then cycle through the brass multisamples one by one. In Power Brass, I guess to save room, there are great low end trombone samples hidden in the lower octaves of the Section and Sax samples. Nice close-mic'd samples, even including a few trombone pedal tones! Score. And lots of bonus Sledgehammer sounds too, like that shakuhachi.

I also revisited The Funk and Soul Brass (EXs19), and found *dozens* of 2-trombone, 2tenor / 2Bass Trombone, 2trombone / 2trum-pet layers, all multi-velocity. There's also a couple dozen French horns, including bellup samples. The programs are all voiced for funk and Latin stabs, but there's enough fodder for other styles too. I think between Funk & Soul and Power Brass there may be enough to assemble a John Philip Sousa brass band! ...seventy-Six trom-bones go marching down...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scoopicman
If you take the 11 GM banks out, there are 20 banks to overwrite. I just pick whatever programs I want for a particular project, then save program banks, with each project. I'm not a big combi player, so I'll save where ever I need.
When I was gigging, I was fearful of making any significant changes to the KSCs or PCGs in my Kronos. More than once I lost a couple months worth of combis for my cover bands, just because I got curious about some new piano or guitar bank.

Of course it's obvious now in hindsight, but I just successfully loaded up a months-old backup configuration after completely wiping several current banks and KSCs. My Set Lists came up complete, and the combis had all the program associations.

So I feel confident now like you to overwrite any banks and experiment. I have months of backup, so when I start gigging again I can recall set lists from cover bands going back a few years.

In practice, there is no shortage of banks. I know it was a recurring complaint on the Korg forums. But with proper understanding and backup, you basically have unlimited banks!

Kronos... it's the gift that keeps on giving. Tonight I can tick off another long running goal -- file management. Thanks again.

Old 17th July 2020
  #43
Quote:
Originally Posted by psionic11 View Post
But the mother lode was in EXs116 Power Brass, much to my surprise. Plenty of different trombones and trum-pets, and with several velocities to boot, all the way from piano to fortissimo (p - ff).
Oooh! Thanks for letting me know. I'm going to have to check it out.


EDIT: I find Power Brass to have a lot of overlap with EXs 3 and EXs 16. Definitely some good samples, but not that many. You should go through the EXs 3 programs, which have quite a few. Unfortunately, Kronos has them scattered.

In the OASYS, all sounds were grouped by library type (LAC-1, MOD-7, etc.). You can find the EXs 3 programs in User Bank G. Combis are also in that location. I wouldn't download the GLOBAL settings, just uncheck them. Here's the link to the PCG file: FULLSET

A good way to see sample content is to look at the OSC multisamples. Power Brass sounds good, but takes up quite a bit of space for how few multisamples it has. Also, notice that there are 6 or 7 IFX used on a single program. If you don't get that library, you can create horn rip sounds in wavesequencing. Move through the steps (position) with the ribbon for different speeds.

Last edited by Scoopicman; 17th July 2020 at 07:42 AM..
Old 17th July 2020
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scoopicman View Post
Oooh! Thanks for letting me know. I'm going to have to check it out.


EDIT: I find Power Brass to have a lot of overlap with EXs 3 and EXs 16. Definitely some good samples, but not that many. You should go through the EXs 3 programs, which have quite a few. Unfortunately, Kronos has them scattered.

In the OASYS, all sounds were grouped by library type (LAC-1, MOD-7, etc.). You can find the EXs 3 programs in User Bank G. Combis are also in that location. I wouldn't download the GLOBAL settings, just uncheck them. Here's the link to the PCG file: FULLSET

A good way to see sample content is to look at the OSC multisamples. Power Brass sounds good, but takes up quite a bit of space for how few multisamples it has. Also, notice that there are 6 or 7 IFX used on a single program. If you don't get that library, you can create horn rip sounds in wavesequencing. Move through the steps (position) with the ribbon for different speeds.
Good points. There might be redundancy in multisamples. Thanks to your head's up, I'm now doing a deep dive comparison of

EXs3 Rom Brass
16 Funk & Soul
50 and 51 KARO Orchestras
116 Power Brass
131-134 KaPro Epic Symphony
222 5th Element

I'll be focusing on the (non-sax) brass multi-samples, with a heavy emphasis on trombones and French horns.

I'm ignoring the programs and going for the jugular -- the core multisamples themselves. Easy enough to load all the KSCs and append them to what's already loaded in RAM. This way I can A/B compare each multisample, using a double OSC Init Program.

I set up each OSC similarly regarding envelopes and filter settings. Using sliders 1 and 2 makes quick work of adjusting the volumes to single out and audition each sound.

Will document here what I find for future reference.
Old 17th July 2020
  #45
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This little experiment is turning out to be a larger effort than anticipated. Bonus is that I've streamlined, cleaned up, and organized what's on my Kronos hard drives.

Meanwhile, here are a few techniques I stumbled on that might prove useful to anyone trying to squeeze more use out of their multisamples.

1) Sample Start point.
Many of the factory samples were edited so that you have an option to skip the attack portion. For example, the contrabass tuba has a slow, puffy attack. Using the 1st offset shaves off those first few milliseconds, and now the sample can be better used to build a bass trombone instead.

2) Detune your sample, then transpose it back
A sample's root note sounds most faithful to the original recording. But if you tune the sample *up* an octave (double its sample playback rate), and then compensate by transposing it *down* an octave, the sample plays back with a different quality than the original. Changing the tuning skews the sample's formants. This technique can be used creatively on a potato to make french fries, tater tots, mashed potatoes, baked potato, scalloped potato, etc.

3) Round robin via Wavesequence Note Advance
Can be used to avoid that mechanical machine gun effect caused by rapid retriggering of the same static sample. By using variations of the same sample (from #2 above), you'll get a more natural response. The WS Note Advance function lets you place your samples on each step like normal, but when Run is disengaged, so playing doesn't automatically step sequence through your samples, Note Advance will then manually step through each WS step, every time you play a new note. Each new note plays a variation of the sample instead.

4) Formants
The trombone's primary formant is 600-800 kHz. Passing a generic sample through a BPF at that cutoff freq makes the sample that much more convincing. Add a bit of resonance, and you get yet another quality. Use velocity to bring *down* the resonance, to simulate how in the real-world horns get more "blatty" when played harder, and less sing-song when played softly.

5) Velocity on a LPF
Probably one of the first techniques to get more mileage out of a simple one velocity sample. Pass your sample through a LPF that has the cutoff reduced from max. Use velocity to open the cutoff more the harder you play.

6) Serial versus parallel dual filter.
Nice discovery here. Using the dual filter, combine 4) and 5) above. First filter is a BPF at a formant frequency, while the second is your usual LPF w/ velocity.

The novel thing here is serial versus parallel configuration of that dual filter. In serial mode, the BPF is piped through the LPF, which gives a tighter, more closed and condensed sound. By contrast, in parallel mode both the BPF and LPF are individually and equally sent to the mixer at the same time... which gives a more open and composite sound.

Bottom line? The same trombone sample sounds like a baritone when filters are in serial mode. In parallel mode, the trombone sounds like a French horn!
Old 17th July 2020
  #46
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Here are the stats for one afternoon of bang for buck analysis on which expansion to get.

Number of "core" brass samples per expansion includes any vibrato and bell-up (FH) samples.
"Section" refers to ensembles (3 or more) of a single instrument, or combinations (tb + tpt + fh)
"Specialty" samples include octaves, mutes, doits, falls, gliss, staccato, sfp, shakes, etc
In most cases, the individual L and R samples of a stereo pair sound differently.


EXs3 Rom Brass (free)
(mostly mono samples)
====================
trombone 6
flugelhorn 3
trum-pet 3
trum-pet section specialty 4 (x 2 for L/R)
french horn 2
contrabass tuba 1
brass section 2 x 2
====================
total core: 15
total section: 2
total specialty: 4



EXs16 Funk and Soul ($99)
(no solo samples, only duo, as in 2trombones mf)
=========================================
trombone 2 (x 2 for L/R)
trombone specialty 7 x 2
trombone + bass trombone 2 x 2
trombone + trum-pet 4 x 2
Tbn + Tpt specialty 23 x 2
trum-pets 2 x 2
trum-pet specialty 8 x 2
french horn 5 x 2
french horn specialty 6 x 2
brass section 3 x 2
=========================================
total core: 9
total section: 9
total specialty: 44



Exs50 KARO Symphonic Library ($99)
==========================
brass section 1
brass section specialty 2 x 2
==========================
total core: 0
total section: 1
total specialty: 2

EXs51 KARO Unison Orchestra ($99)
==========================
brass section 1 x 2
brass section specialty 2 x 2
==========================
total core: 0
total section: 1
total specialty: 2


EXS116 KApro Power Brass ($99)
total core: 16
total section: 5
total specialty: 12
=======================
brass section 5 x 2
brass section specialty 7 x 2
section octaves 5 x 2
trombone derived from Tbn Sax split: 5 x 2
trombone derived from Section split: 6 x 2
trombone derived from Octave split: 5 x 2

EXs131-134 KApro Epic Composer 1-4 ($249)
total core: 2
total section: 4
total specialty: 1
================================
french horn section 3 x 2
brass + FH section 1 x 2
brass section specialty (staccato) 1 x 2
tuba 2 x 2


EXs222 Kapro 5th Element ($149)
total core: 0
total section: 2
total specialty: 8
======================
brass section 2 x 2
brass section specialty 8 x 2


EXs260-263 KApro Epic Composer Private Collection ($249)
total core: 2
total section: 4
total specialty: 7
================================
260 -- legato orch, french horns x 2 (one same as EXs130), staccato brass
262 - classic brass x 2, staccato x 4, swell x 2
263 - KApro brass (big ensemble)
Old 17th July 2020
  #47
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Main takeaways:

Funk and Soul is the must have here, as far as brass is concerned, even for French horns.

The factory Rom Brass covers the basics (as it should), but can leave you wanting.

Rom + Funk is best bang for the buck.

Power Brass isn't as varied as I initially thought. A few more trombones though.

KARO and 5th Element have very few brass samples, in fact no core samples at all.

Epic Composer French horns are great.

==================================

I already purchased Funk and Soul two years ago. Power Brass is not as compelling, but those trombones are calling out to me. I'll make do with what I have for now.

I will get Epic Composer though. The brass additions might not be worth $250 alone, but with the whole package it's a solid choice for a high quality orchestra OTB.

Props to Korg for the fade-in fade-out trial / audition process. Protects their IP, but makes sure you know exactly what you're getting without buyer's remorse.
Old 17th July 2020
  #48
Great report! Worth being a sticky somewhere. I'm glad that you got to take a 2nd look at the EXs 3 Brass, which we have in ROM. And, yes, Funk and Soul is loaded.


Quote:
Originally Posted by psionic11 View Post

EXs51 KARO Unison Orchestra ($99)
==========================
brass section 1 x 2
brass section specialty 1 x 2
==========================
total core: 0
total section: 1
total specialty: 1
In addition, there are 7 orch sections that have cool brass sounds in them. I think you should add them to the specialty count. I use them quite a bit. 9 years ago, I made these compositions with them:

KUO ORCH Song#1

KUO ORCH Song#2

KUO ORCH Song#3

The sections in 5th element, including those "specialty" swell variations are among my favorite.

Well, thanks to all this talk about auditioning new libraries, I just added the Monumental Choir library. Some very cool wavesequencing techniques that make it sound like the choir is speaking a language. I might have to post an example.

Last edited by Scoopicman; 18th July 2020 at 12:18 AM..
Old 18th July 2020
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scoopicman View Post
Great report! Worth being a sticky somewhere. I'm glad that you got to take a 2nd look at the EXs 3 Brass, which we have in ROM. And, yes, Funk and Soul is loaded.

In addition, there are 7 orch sections that have cool brass sounds in them. I think you should add them to the specialty count. I use them quite a bit. 9 years ago, I made these compositions with them:

KUO ORCH Song#1

KUO ORCH Song#2

KUO ORCH Song#3

The sections in 5th element, including those "specialty" swell variations are among my favorite.

Well, thanks to all this talk about auditioning new libraries, I just added the Monumental Choir library. Some very cool wavesequencing techniques that make it sound like the choir is speaking a language. I might have to post an example.
I did miss a brass specialty multisample (0026) in KUO, added it to the report. I also missed 11 trombone samples in Power Brass (the ones "hidden" in the section and octave multisamples). Great thing about trombone samples as base material is you can mold them into anything from tubas to French horns (stretching it) to trum-pets. Or at the very least you can layer them with the authentic instrument to create convincing ensembles.

Nice demos btw, they showcase the variety of stuff available. Have you ever watched any of Kelfar's and Basari Studio demo videos? There are some amazing Middle Eastern sample libraries.

Post a video of that talking choir when you get a chance, should be entertaining! Awhile ago I was dabbling with a scat multisample that varied syllables by velocity, and ran it through KARMA for hilarious results...
Old 18th July 2020
  #50
Quote:
Originally Posted by psionic11 View Post
Post a video of that talking choir when you get a chance
Okay, here is some of that choir being played with in the wavesequencer. It kind of sounds like the background of an OMEN movie. I play a small sampling of programs. I also made a trombone slide, using the -Y joystick, for you.


Old 18th July 2020
  #51
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@ Scoopicman , haha! That's awesome! I'm so far behind on my kronos. :-)
Old 18th July 2020
  #52
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Ha, that trombone brought a big ol smile....

And that talking choir sounded possessed in places. Definite movie background material. You ever use Foley FX in your clips? I think there are sites with scads of downloadable footsteps, door creaks, glass breaking, etc.

I was thinking about modulating the wave sequence position the other day, and here you go and whip up a great use for it. I suppose if one prepped a sample by chopping it up, and then assigned the ribbon to WS position, you could sort of simulate Transwaves. Doing old school wavetable synthesis is dead easy, and there are prepared wavetables with Serum-style interpolation between frames you can download. Charles Ferraro demonstrated grain synthesis and a sort of sample hard sync using the WS. The wavesequencer really is an underrated and flexible engine. And it sends out SYSEX for all its parameters. On my bucket list is to design a UI for it in MidiDesigner, like I did for the MOD7 engine.

Kronos is a huge playground, and I'm still inspired by it every day going on 6 years now.
Old 18th July 2020
  #53
Quote:
Originally Posted by psionic11 View Post
You ever use Foley FX in your clips? I think there are sites with scads of downloadable footsteps, door creaks, glass breaking, etc.
Yes. Did you ever see this? (Link should jump to 4:27 mark.)

Kronos Farmland FX and foley
Old 18th July 2020
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scoopicman View Post
Yes. Did you ever see this? (Link should jump to 4:27 mark.)

Kronos Farmland FX and foley
You got me on a roll today Adventures in FarmLand!

I do remember watching that before, seems like ages ago. Nice use of pitch shifting to gender change your voice. Watching the whole video from the beginning... I see the touch screen is super responsive, no multiple taps needed as some complain about. I only discovered the technique a few months ago, but it's consistent -- use the back of your fingernail!*

The control surface is probably an area that most owners don't fully take advantage of. Thanks for the endless tutorials. Takes awhile to settle into a really mature toolset.


* Pro tip aimed @ SkyWriter
Old 26th July 2020
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scoopicman View Post
Great report! Worth being a sticky somewhere. I'm glad that you got to take a 2nd look at the EXs 3 Brass, which we have in ROM. And, yes, Funk and Soul is loaded.

In addition, there are 7 orch sections that have cool brass sounds in them. I think you should add them to the specialty count. I use them quite a bit. 9 years ago, I made these compositions with them:

KUO ORCH Song#1

KUO ORCH Song#2

KUO ORCH Song#3

The sections in 5th element, including those "specialty" swell variations are among my favorite.

Well, thanks to all this talk about auditioning new libraries, I just added the Monumental Choir library. Some very cool wavesequencing techniques that make it sound like the choir is speaking a language. I might have to post an example.
After several days of deliberation and testing, I ended up going with EXs260-264 Epic Composer Private Collection.

I see it as a culmination of everything KApro has done up to this point.* It's got bits of 130-134, the Animated Orchestra, 5th Element, and GUO.

There are more great brass samples than previous expansions (I updated the above brass breakdown post), including two of those great swells you mentioned (5th Element). The Classic Brass are kinda meh, but could save polyphony instead of hand-crafting your own section. The Legato Orchestra is a very nice string + brass section, and KApro Brass is also big.

And 260-264 has most of the good stuff hand-picked from 4 different KApro releases... I'm more than happy with the diversity and quality of all the strings!

Was a bit disappointed in the 2nd bank of 130-134, and even though 260-264 has a bunch of empty slots, what they do include covers a lot of ground. It's only my 2nd ever expansion purchase aside from Funk and Soul (which I'll be revisiting to roll my own horns), and I feel like now I finally I have more than plenty authentic orchestra at my disposal.

Integra and MODX7 are probably superfluous at this point... or at least until I finally install and use Sample Robot that I bought a year ago to grok the Roland and Yamaha's (and Nord pianos!) guts... esp since it's the version that automatically exports to Kronos file formats. Kidding, I'll probably keep the Integra not only for polyphony, but for the 6000 presets of Roland history. And that TP40L is my daily bread, ain't going nowhere.



Thanks again for the recommendations and demos

The only thing I'll miss from 130-134 is the second French Horn samples... don't know if you noticed, but in the low octaves the FH's are these big swells!

Almost trombone-like in their glory



* EXs 272 is their latest, and cheaper at $99. But don't fall for it... it's got virtually no brass samples (very few original samples at all). In fact they recycle ROM samples and just create various custom programs using those factory samples. All apparently at Korg's request to release something diverse but affordable. Power users need not apply.
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Return of the King.mp3 (474.2 KB, 328 views)

Old 18th August 2020
  #56
Lives for gear
 

I would love a Montage / MODX desktop.

Are their any older Korg racks that do orchestral sounds well? Or are the sounds outdated?
Old 18th August 2020
  #57
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Dairy View Post
Both if possible. I think these are called ensembles?
IMHO if you want realism hardware is not an option.
Kontakt + libraries is the way to go. By miles.
Old 18th August 2020
  #58
Lives for gear
 

Would rather stick with unrealism.
Old 18th August 2020
  #59
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Dairy View Post
Would rather stick with unrealism.
So you are looking for unrealistic sounding orchestra sounds...

OK
Old 18th August 2020
  #60
Lives for gear
 
psionic11's Avatar
If you're looking for semi-decent but slightly dated rompler orchestral rack units:

Korg Triton rack
Yamaha Motif XS or ES rack
the many Roland JV racks
EMU Proteus 2
Kurzweil K2000r
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