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Roland, Korg and GAK fined, how is this going to effect us?
Old 6 days ago
  #31
Lives for gear
 
StepLogik's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by breakmixer View Post
All the B-Stock I bought was unopened, brand new.
Same here. If it was a customer return, the customer or the retailer did a damn fine job repacking it or they never actually unpacked it.

I feel like I'm taking a risk every time, but buying "B-stock" from those certain high-volume eBay retailers has resulted in new products with deep discounts.
Old 6 days ago
  #32
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tricera's Avatar
 

The difference in prices between the UK and Japan are sometimes ridiculous. It's mostly out of stock so more expensive now, but until the virus hit the original Minilogue was selling for about 270 quid here.
Old 6 days ago
  #33
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by TornadoTed View Post
The UK government seem to be going after the industry hard, sending out 70 warning letters.
Old 6 days ago
  #34
Lives for gear
 
SkyWriter's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by kcearl View Post
Do you really think of some selling new items as b stock as I swear Ive had this twice? The first time they emailed me and asked if I want to spend a bit more and get a new item...I said no and got what looked new to me. The second time they did the same but it was already on it's way so how could they...again it arrived in new condition

Never had any other supplier do this
Now that you mention it, I've had similar experiences with ebay b stock/used. I get an email that there is a new one for like $100 more. Still cheaper than anywhere else.
Old 6 days ago
  #35
Here for the gear
 

The judgement runs to 2018 so presumably they have stopped fixing since then. I got a Roland KB from GAK last year and got a competitive discount. I hope the fine does not hurt GAK as they are our local and major music shop in Brighton and the staff are very good and deserve to keep their jobs.
Old 6 days ago
  #36
Quote:
Originally Posted by touched View Post
I think I know the vendor, but will be nice and not name (P). They always do this to me and I fall for it with great suspicion. Last time I didn't get back to them right away and after I gave the go ahead to upgrade from B-stock, I see it had been picked up by the shipper already.
Sounds exactly the same and yup its them...I mean Ive never had an issue, great prices/sales, quick delivery, and as new b stock, I always check them first before buying anything. They were blowing out matrixbrutes with a flight case for $1300! Still kick myself I didnt make room for one.
Old 6 days ago
  #37
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyWriter View Post
Now that you mention it, I've had similar experiences with ebay b stock/used. I get an email that there is a new one for like $100 more. Still cheaper than anywhere else.
Yup. Thats the m.o.
Old 6 days ago
  #38
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ianmcairns View Post
The judgement runs to 2018 so presumably they have stopped fixing since then. I got a Roland KB from GAK last year and got a competitive discount. I hope the fine does not hurt GAK as they are our local and major music shop in Brighton and the staff are very good and deserve to keep their jobs.
Looks like the judgement against Roland doesn't involve GAK and only covers the v-drums products.
Old 6 days ago
  #39
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by breakmixer View Post
All the B-Stock I bought was unopened, brand new. I bought a Mopho Se once new stock and got an opened package. I complained, they said as it was the last in stock I got the display model. I said that I'd bought new and expected new and that I wanted a partial refund - they gave me a credit note that i agreed with to diffuse the situation.
This Right Here....

If a store wants to sell a display model as New... They can go fuck themselves.

I really really hate the fact that these stores can lend out gear to employs for a night or 2, or sell the instrument for a month, someone returns it, they pack it up as new, or the classic display model as new sale.... its like dude... people have been using the tact switches, been hitten em keys. shit wears over time.

Its Bullshit!!!! Fucking Bullshit!!!!

Im spending over 3000.00, give me a brand new piece.
They say..."it comes with the warranty"

I ask every god damn time.... is this the display model... can you check... also even call the closer stores to see if they take one of there display models, and send it over to the store where i ordered and call it new again...

Someone should take em to court. it makes no sense and ive had an abundant of problems with equipment, i feel like its because this...
Old 6 days ago
  #40
Lives for gear
 

i thought the 'starving artists' comment in the other instance of this thread was amusing, on GearSlutz.
Old 6 days ago
  #41
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by percussion boy View Post
In the U.S., it’s sort of “nudge nudge, wink wink.” You can certainly call up one of the big online retailers and pay the full asking price—but if you dig in and start grinding them, or have a good relationship with a sales rep, the price can fall.

btw, the big internet stores definitely collect tax now, and have been for months. “No tax” is long gone and won’t be back.
Fortunately there are still plenty of online retailers who won’t charge you tax if you look around. Not going to name them here of course. That said, I still end up buying from Sweetwater most of the time, at least for expensive orders.
Old 6 days ago
  #42
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djwaxxy's Avatar
What I've always wanted too know is we're does the money from the fines go?

Back on track... I've shopped with gak for over 20 years and I've never paid the prices they advertise. I usually get 10% off the price depending what I'm buying if no discount can be done then they chuck in cables.
Concerning bstock one company I've had really bad luck with is g4m.. I've had a few items advertised as bstock and they were in terrible condition.. But they did give me a refund immediately and have always been really nice but bstock is definitely a no no and won't buy anything bstock.
You don't usually save a lot anyway and in some cases if it comes with bundled software you usually don't get that because it's already been registered.

One thing I do find disgusting though is there fining gak, Roland, korg yet every company has rrp. Some companies feel it gives there products a premium mystic they feel if there prices are kept high people will think there better. And some keep them high too milk as much profit as they can.
What really pisses me off is the way video game companies charge more for a download game than a physical disc. And some people are stupid enough too pay it and companies like Sony, Microsoft keep pushing digital only consoles reason being is they have total control over prices which I feel should be illegal.and its definitely a monopoly if you are the sole place you can buy a product and you fix the prices as you feel fit.
Old 6 days ago
  #43
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djwaxxy's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeatWilson View Post
This Right Here....

If a store wants to sell a display model as New... They can go fuck themselves.

I really really hate the fact that these stores can lend out gear to employs for a night or 2, or sell the instrument for a month, someone returns it, they pack it up as new, or the classic display model as new sale.... its like dude... people have been using the tact switches, been hitten em keys. shit wears over time.

Its Bullshit!!!! Fucking Bullshit!!!!

Im spending over 3000.00, give me a brand new piece.
They say..."it comes with the warranty"

I ask every god damn time.... is this the display model... can you check... also even call the closer stores to see if they take one of there display models, and send it over to the store where i ordered and call it new again...

Someone should take em to court. it makes no sense and ive had an abundant of problems with equipment, i feel like its because this...
Yeah I had that in Dawsons Manchester years ago, I tried out the Roland fa06 they had one on the shop floor it was dusty and covered in greasy fingerprints.
After trying it I said yep I'll buy one the guy looked pissed he said you'll have to wait or come back later.
He said this is the only one they had so it'd need boxing up I said I want a new one not a old one. He said no different still get a warrenty I asked for a discount he said no chance so I just walked out and didn't buy it and never went back.. The guy was ignorant typical music store snob.. The type of guy who doesn't want any customers in the store and gives you the look if you interrupt his texting too buy something...
Old 6 days ago
  #44
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by djwaxxy View Post
Yeah I had that in Dawsons Manchester years ago, I tried out the Roland fa06 they had one on the shop floor it was dusty and covered in greasy fingerprints.
After trying it I said yep I'll buy one the guy looked pissed he said you'll have to wait or come back later.
He said this is the only one they had so it'd need boxing up I said I want a new one not a old one. He said no different still get a warrenty I asked for a discount he said no chance so I just walked out and didn't buy it and never went back.. The guy was ignorant typical music store snob.. The type of guy who doesn't want any customers in the store and gives you the look if you interrupt his texting too buy something...
Damn. Thats rough... I bought a Sequential Pro 3 from a store here in Canada that was a display model. Wouldnt give me discount, said "it just got put out, than the pandemic hit so noones touched it" after buying it i found out there were issues with the unit and returned it. Also running into other musicians saying they tried it out.... Like no....

If you want to open up a god damn store, put some money down on the merch you want to display, sell it at discount after, or dont display any. Its fine. We dont need thousands of used display models roaming around getting sold as new that honestly i would not buy. warranty or no warranty the shit is not fuckin new.

It actually makes me annoyed asf because its like sometimes the price of a car im spending... its like the fuck?!

Done with them stupid asses.... Ill make sure i get a new model if im paying new prices or else i will figure out a way to settle things legal or not. fuck em.

Take the law into your own hands, or just dont shop from these people. I believe everyone should do the same with this "Display model is new even though its been sitting there for maybe a year getting touched by everyone but still comes with warranty" BS. Its basically a big fuck you to the customer
Old 6 days ago
  #45
Lives for gear
 
djwaxxy's Avatar
Did anyone get any gear from the blm riots? I saw loads of people stealing sneakers and crappy tvs but didn't see any gang bangers running past with any synths or guitars.. I thought they'd be the first stores hit... Well after popeyes and McDonald's lol
Old 6 days ago
  #46
Lives for gear
 

Which way do you want it? Do you want everyone to have the same price or do you want big dealers with more buying power to squish the competition Wal Mart style? For most people, price is going to be the number one factor in choosing where to buy something, the other factor probably being who has the best financing on a big purchase. It’s not like a car where you might be able to build some service into the price, the service generally is what it is/almost nonexistent if you buy online.
Old 6 days ago
  #47
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djwaxxy's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeatWilson View Post
Damn. Thats rough... I bought a Sequential Pro 3 from a store here in Canada that was a display model. Wouldnt give me discount, said "it just got put out, than the pandemic hit so noones touched it" after buying it i found out there were issues with the unit and returned it. Also running into other musicians saying they tried it out.... Like no....

If you want to open up a god damn store, put some money down on the merch you want to display, sell it at discount after, or dont display any. Its fine. We dont need thousands of used display models roaming around getting sold as new that honestly i would not buy. warranty or no warranty the shit is not fuckin new.

It actually makes me annoyed asf because its like sometimes the price of a car im spending... its like the fuck?!

Done with them stupid asses.... Ill make sure i get a new model if im paying new prices or else i will figure out a way to settle things legal or not. fuck em.

Take the law into your own hands, or just dont shop from these people. I believe everyone should do the same with this "Display model is new even though its been sitting there for maybe a year getting touched by everyone but still comes with warranty" BS. Its basically a big fuck you to the customer
I think a few off us on here have regular stores and sales people they buy from. I used too buy from dv247 until the shit on there staff and they got sacked.. They were always great with prices and sometimes you'd get freebies or amazing bundles.
Best one I got was when everyone was wanting protools setups.. I got pt9, avid firewire interface, nova mic, maudio bx5as, novation launchpad, novation remote 25sl,all cables and some vsts and sample cds.. All that cost £300!!!

Turkey were superb too gutted they went I got a steinnerg Houston controller and nuendo for &£200
Old 6 days ago
  #48
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breakmixer's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by ibtl View Post
i thought the 'starving artists' comment in the other instance of this thread was amusing, on GearSlutz.
Of course they are starving, wouldn't you be after buying a Quantum, Moog One and Arp 2600 reissue.
Old 6 days ago
  #49
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GeminIAm's Avatar
Lowkey impressed "fucking" doesn't appear as ****ing btw
Old 6 days ago
  #50
Deleted 432039d
Guest
The stores don’t have to carry their products if they don’t like the rules.

Private companies.

Right?

Fakebook, Goolag and Tweeter do the same crap to their users and everyone is a-okay.
Old 6 days ago
  #51
Gear Addict
 
uOpt's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by TornadoTed View Post
The whole B Stock thing must be a bit of nightmare for retailers. If there is a pretty small profit margin on an item anyway then having to then discount it further must sting when it is essentially new, maybe unpacked and played for an hour or two.
B stock is an entirely different concept from demo or returned items.

For starters, B stock carries the full warranty and they usually come in sealed manufacturer's packaging.
Old 6 days ago
  #52
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djwaxxy's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by uOpt View Post
B stock is an entirely different concept from demo or returned items.

For starters, B stock carries the full warranty and they usually come in sealed manufacturer's packaging.
No bstock I’ve ever bought has been sealed or came with the bundled software.i got a ROLI block from g4m and it came In the original box but contained no cable,serial and the controller had ink marks all over it and a dusty bottom..horrible.
I suppose though it Varys on were you buy it .
Old 6 days ago
  #53
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TornadoTed's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by uOpt View Post
B stock is an entirely different concept from demo or returned items.

For starters, B stock carries the full warranty and they usually come in sealed manufacturer's packaging.
Interesting. I always thought B Stock was returns, display models or damaged packaging.
Old 6 days ago
  #54
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by TornadoTed View Post
The whole B Stock thing must be a bit of nightmare for retailers. If there is a pretty small profit margin on an item anyway then having to then discount it further must sting when it is essentially new, maybe unpacked and played for an hour or two.

I always feel bad returning stuff but I have no choice really when I don't have a local physical store to go and try stuff out at. As bricks and mortar stores disappear and more goes online it's only going to increase the problem.
Sure but on the other hand those online retailers aren't paying the massive overheads of a bricks and mortar shop, hugely increasing their initial profit margin (which is of course why so much of the market has moved online in the first place).

So in a sense it's just moving the cost of doing business from one place (running a physical shop) to another (having to discount a lot of b-stock items because people had to try them out at home and then send them back, being unable to try them out in the now-nonexistent physical shop).
Old 6 days ago
  #55
HSi
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HSi's Avatar
 

GAK is my local store sometimes. Even a couple of years ago I'd just ask if they had such and such a thing and for a price on it, if I was in the shop, I got some really nice deals. Around a month ago, I saw they had a Model Samples B-Stock for £320(!) so I emailed them to offer £225 or nearest offer, and to say that £320 is over rrp of new... Got an email back saying £320 was the best they could do...lol...

About a year before that I remember buying a Jam from them, B-stock about £180, it arrived it was sealed with a unregistered version. Weird goings on. The prices on most stuff are shite there now, they used to be decent.

Gear4music overcharge on RRP sometimes, I payed an extra £30 on the official rrp of my Digitone, just because they were the only ones to do sunday delivery. To be clear they charge £30 over rrp every day..
Old 6 days ago
  #56
Kja
Lives for gear
B-stock means it is a manufacturer second, it could be a return, or the manufacturer turned it down in q&a, or even it just didn't sell and was overstock.. but b-stock means it went back to the manufacturer for some reason and was reconditioned or just repackaged.
I think most are just overstock that never sold so retailers shift them around at a discount to places like proaudiostar or whoever.
Old 6 days ago
  #57
Gear Addict
 

I can give you an account from first hand experience.

Contrary to what is said manufacturers/distributors and shops don't work together to keep prices HIGH. Most prices aren't high. They try to ensure things remain profitable so that retail outlets don't disappear forever. Profit doesn't mean business owners are quids in. It means they can pay their overheads this month. Nobody is getting ripped off.

For anybody unsure of the process.... the shops have to BUY the stock first at a fixed cost price. The shop then HOPEFULLY sell it on to the customer for a profit. The profit is what pays business overheads - staff wages, rates and everything else. It is up to the shop how much markup they add. Too much and the competitors get the sale. Too little and the shop doesn't make enough money each month to stay in business.

The manufacturer/distributor aren't affected ... yet. They still made their money no matter what the end customer paid. But it is in their interest to keep THEIR customers in business. Also if their product prices are trashed then shops will switch to stocking similar competitors products that they CAN make money on. In my experience these are usually inferior products.

There are always people that will say 'it's good for consumers'. I think that's short-sighted, they don't understand how margins are already very tight and past discussions tell me these people rarely change their mind
Old 6 days ago
  #58
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touched's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kcearl View Post
Sounds exactly the same and yup its them...I mean Ive never had an issue, great prices/sales, quick delivery, and as new b stock, I always check them first before buying anything. They were blowing out matrixbrutes with a flight case for $1300! Still kick myself I didnt make room for one.
I got the the MB with the flight case for the blowout price! It's for reasons like that that I don't want to cause them pain - awesome deals.
Old 6 days ago
  #59
Quote:
Originally Posted by touched View Post
I got the the MB with the flight case for the blowout price! It's for reasons like that that I don't want to cause them pain - awesome deals.
I really didnt want one but it was like calling me dumb for not buying it...when I thought it was time not to be dumb I missed it....so dumb I am
Old 5 days ago
  #60
Lives for gear
 

Speaking of loot, anyone know who gets the loot from these fines?

Is it just a shakedown from a government agency who wanted a cut of the action? Does it go as reparations to other retailers and manufacturers? If 70 warning letters were sent, does that mean almost everyone was implicated, or was it more like, "See? We made an example of these people. We don't know what you're up to, but you just made the list! We're keeping an eye on you, buddy!"

It's a different country, but have you seen the Sweetwater warehouse video that Genshi posts on GS sometimes? Despite all the issues people have mentioned, the big companies seem to be able to make some profit selling music instruments. Is it mostly from guitars and electronic drum sets?

If they were all in cahoots, then why did Yamaha narc on the others? What made them flip? Do they have to go into witness protection now, and sell instruments under an assumed name? Everyone will know it's them...
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