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Waldorf Iridium
Old 2 weeks ago
  #901
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tjontheroad's Avatar
My order shipped
Old 2 weeks ago
  #902
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul_xyz View Post
Iridium has a jekyll and hyde difference depending if the system-wide, persistent "bass boost" is turned on or off. I have it pretty much permanently on as it imparts the warmth I'm used to from the quantum - but turning it off gives the razor sharp, digital character that is more desirable for some sound types.

Also, using the presets that were made for the quantum uses the iridium's "quantum" filter, whereas for me, the "svf" filter does a better job of getting closer to the character of the quantum if that's the goal.
To my ears, admittedly in the "audiophile" zone, on my studio setup, it is not just a matter of warmth, but it feels like jitter or aliasing or both. This begins to seem more like a "me" problem. Never mind, no worries.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #903
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Gnalvl's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coorec View Post
This in mind, Iridium and even Quantum will much cheaper than software and supporting computer power in the long run.
Eh, this really depends on your needs, the computer you buy, operating system, etc.

Unless you work entirely OTB, then you will be relying on a DAW and thus a computer at some point in your workflow anyway. So the cost of keeping a running computer is effectively already paid for and built-in to your decision to compose with a DAW. This is also true if you need a computer for your day job, for gaming, general comunication, or any number of other common life purposes.

Moreover, the costs related to a computer vary immensely based on your operating system and hardware choices. If you know what you're doing, you can build a reasonably powerful computer for a few hundred bucks these days and run it on a used Windows license for $10, or an open-source OS like Linux.

Way too many people in the creative fields base their assumptions of computer costs on Apple's inflated prices and planned obsolescence. Considering audio interfaces generally put greater priority on Mac drivers, this could be a semi-worthwhile decision, but not everyone needs audio interfaces and other driver-heavy devices in an ITB production setup.

Also, how many people with entirely OTB setups don't actually change their hardware around ever? Since the groovebox era it feels like the OTB crowd have been constantly migrating from device to device looking for the perfect "OTB daw". Even if you resell your old device before buying the latest trendy sequencer/groovebox/etc. you're probably not making back its entire retail original price. The accrued cost in swapping studio gear in search for the perfect workflow can very easily add up in comparable or greater amounts to what you'd spend buying a computer occasionally.

At the end of the day you can make music on a keyboard you found in a dumpster recording to a tape recorder you found at a yard sale, just like you can work ITB on some hand-me-down computer you took off someone's hands. Things can be as cheap or expensive as you want them to be; it's more about where/how you want to spend your money.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #904
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anaa View Post
I see. I totally misread you the first time around. I thought you were saying that's likely what I was looking for. I thought you were saying I was the typical synth buyer who wanted "raw" aggressive leads and basses, etc. In fact, I'm not a leads and basses guy at all. I'm more a retro electro-acoustic person. Anyway, my mistake. My reply must not have made much sense.

I was thinking exactly the same thing re: the Blofeld. You don't expect them to take a step backward, but you never know.

One of the things that put me off the Hydrasynth were the early (and since rebutted) reports that the sound was pretty thin and tinny. Then I heard it wasn't so bad and that there had been a patch addressing this, and I even heard pretty impressive demos where there seemed to be plenty of body and bass, but by then the damage had been done, in terms of my interest. I find I'm still pretty prejudiced against digital synths. I expect a certain thin, sizzly, staticy sound.
I think we’re living in a time where the old ways of taking about synth technology is becoming useless. I’ve heard very fat and warm sounds coming from digital, and thin and brittle sounds coming from analog. I also personally don’t give such characterizations any qualitative weight. Things are just interesting to me, or not.

I remember this GS member with the handle “Living Sounds” or something like that. He posted an amazing sounding all-analog track once, but while it sounded great, I’m personally not interested in producing music that sounds exactly like that. I find interest in juxtaposition of very different types of things.

My issue (not really an issue) with the Hydrasynth was that I found it to be pretty similar sounding to what’s easily achievable ITB. If someone played a demo of it and said, “This is Zebra” or “Serum,” I’d have no reason to question that statement. That doesn’t make it uninteresting to me, as having a polyphonic aftertouch keyboard carries a lot of weight in my book. I’m more likely to go for an Osmose though, for it also has an interesting sounding engine and a more unique keyboard.

Somewhat off topic, I find it interesting that here on GearSlutz you are just as likely to find a post about how great old digital synths sound because of their crude technology as you are to read about how bad all digital is because it’s not analog.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #905
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul_xyz View Post
Iridium has a jekyll and hyde difference depending if the system-wide, persistent "bass boost" is turned on or off. I have it pretty much permanently on as it imparts the warmth I'm used to from the quantum - but turning it off gives the razor sharp, digital character that is more desirable for some sound types.

Also, using the presets that were made for the quantum uses the iridium's "quantum" filter, whereas for me, the "svf" filter does a better job of getting closer to the character of the quantum if that's the goal.
I don't have my Iridium yet, but this is good to know. Where is that bass boost setting located?
Old 2 weeks ago
  #906
Lives for gear
 
Gnalvl's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anaa View Post
Oof. I can’t help but think Waldorf is pricing themselves out of the conversation here. Fishing for whales in the synth market. On the other hand, they must know what they’re doing because this is the Kyra all over again. Kyra must have done well enough for them if they’re going down the same road here.

I’m interested enough to keep my eye on it. If, unlike the Kyra, demos are impressive and word of mouth says it’s unmissable, if it goes down in price by $1000, if no interesting synth appears in a year’s time — are any of these things likely? — I might still consider it.
Yeah, I thought it sounded like an amazing deal till I found out they dropped the Quantum's analog filters.

Analog isn't everything, but a lot of the attraction to the Quantum line is as a spiritual successor to the canceled Stromberg, Q+, and the Wave. The legacy of Waldorf's own Blofeld has taught us that pure digital comes cheap, and it's hybrid that costs a lot of money.

For the Iridium's price, you can get a Summit, which gives you a full keyboard interface, AND filters. Now that the Summit supports custom wavetables, you can import all the Waldorf waveshapes if you want.

If there were a 16 voice version of the Quantum, or even just an 8 HYBRID voice version of the Iridium, I'd be more willing to spend the money.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #907
Quote:
Originally Posted by polybonk View Post
Seems like this guy is providing some of what you want to hear.

Yeah, a bit. That saturated Nave filter is a bit-of-all-right. What I’d love to hear is for someone to make a NINish sounding demo. Raw and aggressive with little reverb. I don’t ever expect it to sound like an XT (which is OK by me) but I’d love to hear it scream a bit in a musical context. Show me that distorted band-pass doing some magic on a PPG wavetable with no effects. I know it’s a bit like asking someone to drive around the park on a Sunday in a Ferrari, but so much of what I’ve heard so far sounds so everything-but-the-kitchen-sink that it’s hard to get a handle on it’s base character, if it indeed has one. (Seems like it does from that video you posted, but I want more!)
Old 2 weeks ago
  #908
Here for the gear
 
Stellaris's Avatar
 

That is one expensive iPad!
Old 2 weeks ago
  #909
Quote:
Originally Posted by tjontheroad View Post
My order shipped
Lucky! Where ?
Old 2 weeks ago
  #910
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rcmusic35 View Post
Lucky! Where ?
For me, SW shipped first batch of preorders today. Other vendors likely too.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #911
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tjontheroad's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rcmusic35 View Post
Lucky! Where ?
Sweetwater
Old 2 weeks ago
  #912
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gnalvl View Post
For the Iridium's price, you can get a Summit, which gives you a full keyboard interface, AND filters. Now that the Summit supports custom wavetables, you can import all the Waldorf waveshapes if you want..
Summit supports 5 waveforms of 256 samples per wavetable.

Iridium supports up to 2,000 waveforms, and up to 4,096 samples per waveform.

Even the factory legacy wavetables are 64 waveform x 128 samples, so the summit can't even do those.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #913
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by lordradish View Post
I don't have my Iridium yet, but this is good to know. Where is that bass boost setting located?
If the setting is system-wide as was stated, then I assume under "Global Setting" or equivalent button. Haven't reached that part in the manual yet. There are other "Boost" controls but apply only to particular filter setting so not that.

EDIT: Not "Global" but "Master" among other system parameters. Very interesting there's a global "Compression" option!

Last edited by TEEiselberg; 2 weeks ago at 06:54 PM.. Reason: add info
Old 2 weeks ago
  #914
Gear Addict
 
satatek's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stellaris View Post
That is one expensive iPad!
just like korg trinity was/is
Old 2 weeks ago
  #915
Gear Addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul_xyz View Post
Summit supports 5 waveforms of 256 samples per wavetable.

Iridium supports up to 2,000 waveforms, and up to 4,096 samples per waveform.

Even the factory legacy wavetables are 64 waveform x 128 samples, so the summit can't even do those.
And it doesn’t do Karplus-Strong, play samples, do granular, or complicated fm. Both have good basic waveforms. I think that Summit is far from a replcement for Iridium. What Summit does, it does it well. But even Blofeld complements Summit quite a bit.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #916
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gnalvl View Post
Yeah, I thought it sounded like an amazing deal till I found out they dropped the Quantum's analog filters.

Analog isn't everything, but a lot of the attraction to the Quantum line is as a spiritual successor to the canceled Stromberg, Q+, and the Wave. The legacy of Waldorf's own Blofeld has taught us that pure digital comes cheap, and it's hybrid that costs a lot of money.

For the Iridium's price, you can get a Summit, which gives you a full keyboard interface, AND filters. Now that the Summit supports custom wavetables, you can import all the Waldorf waveshapes if you want.

If there were a 16 voice version of the Quantum, or even just an 8 HYBRID voice version of the Iridium, I'd be more willing to spend the money.
I’m starting to think that they kept the Quantum’s analog filters pretty neutral sounding. Most probably because they didn’t want to impart too much same-y character on all the different oscillator types. I was sort of like you at first, but the more I hear, the more I think we’ll be missing the analog filters less than we think. The Quantum isn’t a synth like the Summit, where you can really lean into distorting the VCA and VCF.

I’m back to being interested, now that I know it’s not $3K USD, but I am still a bit on the fence about it. It’s still pretty expensive, but I think there is a degree of quality to the sound (meaning free from digital artifact) that is harder for plugins to attain. I guess the closest thing to an Iridium that I own in software is Falcon, which is great, but when you start getting into sample mangling you can start to bring your CPU to its knees. Same thing with Reaktor. I often make sure it’s the only plugin I’m running so I can work with it in real time. I can do it because I have plenty of other hardware synths.

Most likely I’ll get it because I really do have all my other bases covered. It wouldn’t replace anything, though, because I do like to explore the things about the Summit that you’re talking about, but they’re not the only things I’m interested in. We’ll see. I couldn’t do anything until Christmas anyway, so maybe I’ll feel differently by then.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #917
Lives for gear
 

2 large is expensive, but worth it to me and that is why I ordered one.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #918
Gear Nut
 

I'm not really seeing the 'too expensive' thing, for what it is. Most of the really good synths out there are in the 2k and up range... Waldorf, Summit, Virus, Moog, DSI... if one is more in the Behringer budget range, that's fine, and I'm sure that gear is good for what it is. But you get what you pay for, and I'm glad to finally get almost all of a Quantum in a more reasonable price range. It's not 'cheap', but most really good stuff isn't cheap.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #919
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul_xyz View Post
Summit supports 5 waveforms of 256 samples per wavetable.

Iridium supports up to 2,000 waveforms, and up to 4,096 samples per waveform.

Even the factory legacy wavetables are 64 waveform x 128 samples, so the summit can't even do those.
Paul is right. In addition, so far the imported wavetables on my Peak sound disappointingly samey.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #920
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gnalvl View Post
Yeah, I thought it sounded like an amazing deal till I found out they dropped the Quantum's analog filters.

Analog isn't everything, but a lot of the attraction to the Quantum line is as a spiritual successor to the canceled Stromberg, Q+, and the Wave. The legacy of Waldorf's own Blofeld has taught us that pure digital comes cheap, and it's hybrid that costs a lot of money.

For the Iridium's price, you can get a Summit, which gives you a full keyboard interface, AND filters. Now that the Summit supports custom wavetables, you can import all the Waldorf waveshapes if you want.

If there were a 16 voice version of the Quantum, or even just an 8 HYBRID voice version of the Iridium, I'd be more willing to spend the money.
but does the summit does offer the particle, resonantor, or kernal oscillators? and the wavetable oscillators arent even competitive.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #921
Gear Addict
One thing about Summit’s wavetables has been an iteresting revelation to me. They are ”analog” just as the regular waveforms are. No aliasing or stepping, and all the slop parameters work with them as they do with e.g. saw wave. It is a different mindset than working with wavetables in Blofeld where you really hear their digital origins. My advice for Summit is to approach them from that angle. At least it is the path of least resistance for me.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #922
Gear Head
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stellaris View Post
That is one expensive iPad!
Sorry, if this was an app on the Apple Store for an iPad I wouldn't even consider it. Touch touch touch touch touch would drive me to drink in a hurry.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #923
Quote:
Originally Posted by lordradish View Post
I'm not really seeing the 'too expensive' thing, for what it is. Most of the really good synths out there are in the 2k and up range... Waldorf, Summit, Virus, Moog, DSI... if one is more in the Behringer budget range, that's fine, and I'm sure that gear is good for what it is. But you get what you pay for, and I'm glad to finally get almost all of a Quantum in a more reasonable price range. It's not 'cheap', but most really good stuff isn't cheap.
My price issues were when someone said it would retail for $3k usd. Not that it’s not worth that, just not to me. $2.5k, means that if I’m patient I can probably score it for $2k, which is in line with what I’d pay for a synth. Now that I think of it, I don’t own a synth that I paid more than $2k for.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #924
Here for the gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by zerocrossing View Post
My price issues were when someone said it would retail for $3k usd. Not that it’s not worth that, just not to me. $2.5k, means that if I’m patient I can probably score it for $2k, which is in line with what I’d pay for a synth. Now that I think of it, I don’t own a synth that I paid more than $2k for.
Same thing happened to me, but when I saw that it would be $2.5k, and it would still be bi-timbral then it started to make more sense. On top that, there's always the option to wait for a discounted demo unit. Also, buying somewhere where you can return it within 30 days is a great option, as you can try it and decide if it's for you or not.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #925
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by zerocrossing View Post
My price issues were when someone said it would retail for $3k usd. Not that it’s not worth that, just not to me. $2.5k, means that if I’m patient I can probably score it for $2k, which is in line with what I’d pay for a synth. Now that I think of it, I don’t own a synth that I paid more than $2k for.
Definitely the most expensive synth I have, more than the Virus. Usually my pricey things are basses which go for 3k and up (and will certainly outlive any of these synths, for sure).
Old 2 weeks ago
  #926
Lives for gear
 
Gnalvl's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul_xyz View Post
Summit supports 5 waveforms of 256 samples per wavetable.

Iridium supports up to 2,000 waveforms, and up to 4,096 samples per waveform.

Even the factory legacy wavetables are 64 waveform x 128 samples, so the summit can't even do those.
Right, except even the legacy Waldorf wavetables are mostly just crossfading between a small number of distinct shapes.

For example "malet" starts with one shape and spends 32 waveforms morphing to a 2nd shape, and then the remaining 32 waveforms morphing to a 3rd shape. Harmo has 4 distinct shapes, Harm2 has 5, etc. There are a few exceptions like Reso where there are 6 or 7 distinct shapes, but the majority are between 2 to 5.

Thus if you export the 1st, 16th, 32nd, 48th, and 64th waveshapes of most of these, load them into Serum, the Zebra editor, Waveterm, or the Summit/Peak editor, the crossfaded results are going to aproximate the original sources pretty closely. In some cases you might have to eyeball which waveshapes to grab rather than going by the numbers, but it's not rocket science.

In the end, you won't have 100% exact replicas of the classic Waldorf wavetables, but you'll have approximations that can imitate most of their sound.

Replicating the Ambika wavetable set would be even easier, as the number of distinct shapes per wavetable is much smaller (I know because I already sampled all of it by hand). IMO having essentially knob-per-function keyboard Ambika with slightly different filters makes the Summit worth owning on its face, even before you consider some of the other possibilities and features.

Quote:
Originally Posted by eighteenisnine View Post
And it doesn’t do Karplus-Strong, play samples, do granular, or complicated fm. Both have good basic waveforms. I think that Summit is far from a replcement for Iridium. What Summit does, it does it well. But even Blofeld complements Summit quite a bit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by acidtechno View Post
but does the summit does offer the particle, resonantor, or kernal oscillators? and the wavetable oscillators arent even competitive.
But does everyone care about particle, resonantor, kernal, samples, karplus strong, etc? Judging by the number of people who are on the fence about this synth, I would guess no.

The Quantum justifies its hefty price by essentially offering everything you could ever want into a digital synth, including the hybrid architecture which has become increasingly rare since the end of the 80s. The iridium is a compromise where you're only getting some of the cool stuff from the Quantum and it's still pretty expensive.

I figure best-case scenario when I really started digging into and appreciating all additional synthesis types of the Iridium, now I'd imagine that they'd sound even better with analog filters, and regret not buying the Quantum. And even with the Quantum, I feel like if I'm going to sink that much cash in, I'd prefer the option to poney up for a 16-voice version.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #927
Gear Head
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gnalvl View Post
But does everyone care about particle, resonantor, kernal, samples, karplus strong, etc? Judging by the number of people who are on the fence about this synth, I would guess no.
I'm gonna go ahead and say, while I am indeed not everyone, I am someone who didn't really sit up and start listening attentively to the Quantum engine until the introduction of the Kernel Engine.

Also, I eyed the Peak for awhile (I still find the sound to be very nice), and subsequently lost interest once I realized it was a poly without a pan control to modulate.

Whereas with Hydrasynth, you have the opportunity to pan all oscillators/ noise/ ringmod preceding the filter, and each voice independently following the filter.

With Iridium's Kernel engine, you're able to pan all kernels independently inside a single oscillator, which you'd not be able to appreciate if you were using one of Quantum's analog filters, as they collapse each oscillator to mono.

Different strokes, as it were.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #928
Lives for gear
 

Do a lot of people order a new synth immediately when it's posted, and then wait until it arrives to decide whether they might want it, with a 30 day trial period? Maybe because of how forums are, it just seems like a lot of people do this? I've noticed the notion quite a bit in these "new synth" threads. How many times can you get away with that at a place like Sweetwater? Guitar Center has been doing a 180 day trial period lately. You could get a Quantum for 6 months, and then an Iridium for 6 months, and then return it. Then, after a year's use of the Quantridium, you get your money back. It doesn't seem like a sustainable business model for them, though.

I'm just thinking... if you don't mind sloppy seconds, there will probably be a bunch of B-stock Iridiums in about a month or 6, depending on the store.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #929
Gear Head
 
Ockeghem's Avatar
I don't think I would miss the analog filters. I can use modules for that. So Iridium is still tempting for me at some future time.
As for oscillator panning on the Peak, I suppose that can be done after the fact in DAW or mixer? Only problem is, if you want to bring it all back into the Peak for further mangling, I don't know how you would do that...have to send it somewhere else I suppose.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #930
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realtrance's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by zerocrossing View Post
I’m starting to think that they kept the Quantum’s analog filters pretty neutral sounding. Most probably because they didn’t want to impart too much same-y character on all the different oscillator types. I was sort of like you at first, but the more I hear, the more I think we’ll be missing the analog filters less than we think. The Quantum isn’t a synth like the Summit, where you can really lean into distorting the VCA and VCF.

I’m back to being interested, now that I know it’s not $3K USD, but I am still a bit on the fence about it. It’s still pretty expensive, but I think there is a degree of quality to the sound (meaning free from digital artifact) that is harder for plugins to attain. I guess the closest thing to an Iridium that I own in software is Falcon, which is great, but when you start getting into sample mangling you can start to bring your CPU to its knees. Same thing with Reaktor. I often make sure it’s the only plugin I’m running so I can work with it in real time. I can do it because I have plenty of other hardware synths.

Most likely I’ll get it because I really do have all my other bases covered. It wouldn’t replace anything, though, because I do like to explore the things about the Summit that you’re talking about, but they’re not the only things I’m interested in. We’ll see. I couldn’t do anything until Christmas anyway, so maybe I’ll feel differently by then.
I don't know... The choices between 12/24db slope, each with normal, saturated and dirty modes, and multiple ways of configuring two analogue filters together, and that's all separately from the digital filter/digital former filters, which can be configured in multiple ways, too....plenty of character there if you work with it.

Plus the envelopes have control over each stage's curve, like the Andromeda, so there is a LOT there to work with.
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