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Attention all CASIO CZ synth owners (Huge tuning issue)
Old 1 week ago
  #1
Attention all CASIO CZ synth owners (Huge tuning issue)

Hi,
My problem is as follows:
I have a Roland Juno 106 and a Casio CZ101 in my setup and I`m having a HUGE issue tuning these synths to play together in harmony in a reliable fashion - it is close to impossible! I`m attempting to use the Juno as the "master" instrument" - that is a C sharp on the Juno should be a C sharp on the CZ101 (only Casio CZ synth owners will understand particular problem I presume, see below).

Anyway - I`m attempting to tune the CZ101 after the Juno 106 and the work-around seems to be as follows: first I have to press "Key Transpose" on the CZ101 - then both of the master tune buttons at the same time. This temporarily solves the problem (a C sharp on the Juno 106 is a perfect C sharp on the CZ101) HOWEVER this is only a temporary success!!
Because whenever I stop and re-start my sequencer/DAW the CZ101 is out of tune again (btw. I have batteries installed in the CZ101).

If there is somebody out there that can help me - I would be eternally grateful :-D

PS:I have already done some research and have identified ONE culprit: The CZ101 has a different tuning standard (non standard I pressume). I`m not big on music theory but it is tuned to either 442 or 440.Anyway as mentioned above the CZ always "reboots"/goes back to the nonstandard tuning whenever I restart my sequencer (which I do alot when I`m producing). Btw. it is not possible to tune the Juno 106 after the CZ101 because the Juno is just "out of range" (I cannot explain this in a better way).
Old 1 week ago
  #3
Gear Addict
 
mu:zines's Avatar
 

I've had a few CZ's (CZ-101, CZ-1) for years and never had a tuning problem, there is no weird non-standard tuning issue by default.

If yours permanently goes out of tune when turning it on, either there's an issue which is scrambling some settings (tuning, key transpose) when you turn the machine off, or you're sending it some MIDI data that's causing an offset.

As was suggested in the other thread, hit the reset button to re-init the CZ, don't connect up any MIDI devices, and turn the machine on. If it's still consistently turning on with the tuning or key transpose offset, it sounds like a hardware problem.

And make sure your batteries are good, and/or you're connected to power. If the batteries aren't working, then the CZ-101 will scramble it's brains and lose settings and global data, which may also have the effects you describe.
Old 1 week ago
  #4
Gear Nut
 
CZ Rider's Avatar
 

Did you initialize the Casio after installing batteries? The battery operated CZ-101,1000,230S will act wonky when the power is left off after a time without batteries.
Need to push the "P" button on the bottom of the unit. This will loose any saved patches, so back them up first.

Otherwise the several here work fine with no tuning issues.
Old 1 week ago
  #5
Lives for gear
 
grasspike's Avatar
If you can stop sending MIDI start and stop messages on your sequencer that should make the issue go away
Old 1 week ago
  #6
Gear Addict
I used to get this problem. When they loose their memory the setting for transpose gets garbage data (as does pitch bend amount - which used to give me access to greater than 1oct bends). The reset button fix above no doubt solves the problem. You can also manually set the transpose value back to C (no transpose)
Old 1 week ago
  #7
Gear Maniac
 
Transistores's Avatar
 

Had this problem with 101. Reset button only fixes the problem with a pitch wheel. What you need is a midi filter or some other way to turn off the messages which are sent when you press play (or stop?). Or find a sequencer which doesn't send them at all (like SEQ24 http://www.filter24.org/seq24/)

I worked around by using MIDIOX (http://www.midiox.com/), installing MIDI Yoke (http://www.midiox.com/myoke.htm) virtual midi ports, rerouting MIDI through them and filtering all MIDI messages but MIDI note on/off. Before using MIDI-filter (inside MIDIOX) try turning off all unessential midi-messages in preferences of the DAW (btw, which one you use? I had this problem with FL). If you'll find some alternative program or another solution, please write it here in detail as I'm interested too (and no doubt not only me).

I remember Six-Trak having this or similar problem too.
Old 1 week ago
  #8
Quote:
Originally Posted by ambiguous signal View Post
My problem is exactly the same as described here. Thanks for the link.
Seems like the sequencer is sending signals that "confuses" the CZ101. The best solutions to the problem is probably as described by Transistores below (Midi related workaround).

However I how found a low tech non-ideal solution for the time being that is sufficiant for me. I have tuned the Juno slightly down so that when I press the D key on the CZ101 it corresponds to the C key on the Juno (and all the other synths in my setup).
Old 1 week ago
  #9
Quote:
Originally Posted by Transistores View Post
Had this problem with 101. Reset button only fixes the problem with a pitch wheel. What you need is a midi filter or some other way to turn off the messages which are sent when you press play (or stop?). Or find a sequencer which doesn't send them at all (like SEQ24 http://www.filter24.org/seq24/)

I worked around by using MIDIOX (http://www.midiox.com/), installing MIDI Yoke (http://www.midiox.com/myoke.htm) virtual midi ports, rerouting MIDI through them and filtering all MIDI messages but MIDI note on/off. Before using MIDI-filter (inside MIDIOX) try turning off all unessential midi-messages in preferences of the DAW (btw, which one you use? I had this problem with FL). If you'll find some alternative program or another solution, please write it here in detail as I'm interested too (and no doubt not only me).

I remember Six-Trak having this or similar problem too.
Thank you Transistores - I think you are onto something here. Will check this out. I guess these problems are part of the "charm" (but also occasional frustration and headaches) of using old gear
Old 1 week ago
  #10
Quote:
Originally Posted by nutjob View Post
I used to get this problem […] - which used to give me access to greater than 1oct bends))
Thats pretty cool
Old 1 week ago
  #11
Lives for gear
 
Mastropiero's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Henki82 View Post
Hi,
PS:I have already done some research and have identified ONE culprit: The CZ101 has a different tuning standard (non standard I pressume). I`m not big on music theory but it is tuned to either 442 or 440.Anyway as mentioned above the CZ always "reboots"/goes back to the nonstandard tuning whenever I restart my sequencer (which I do alot when I`m producing). Btw. it is not possible to tune the Juno 106 after the CZ101 because the Juno is just "out of range" (I cannot explain this in a better way).
Transpose and tuning are definitely different concepts. Tuning at 440 or 442 should be virtually unnoticeable. The tuning differences you are reporting are clearly a transpose problem. It may happen if the internal battery is faulty and the memory where the transpose parameter is stored becomes corrupt (that would be consistent with the issue reappearing after turning the unit off).

On the other hand, are you sure the problem isn't on the Juno side? Have you analysed the MIDI data coming from the Juno? Have you compared the CZ tuning to other synths?
Old 1 week ago
  #12
Lives for gear
 
James Lehmann's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Henki82 View Post
I'm attempting to tune the CZ101 after the Juno 106 and the work-around seems to be as follows: first I have to press "Key Transpose" on the CZ101 - then both of the master tune buttons at the same time.
I have a Juno 106 and a CZ101.

You don't need to press Key Transpose to centre the cent pitch increments with the two-button trick.

I assume when you press Key Transpose the screen says 'C' ? - if it doesn't use the Up/Down parameter buttons to get it into the key of C.

Then press the two tuning buttons at once which will indeed 'centre' the cents tuning.

Stick some new batteries in the unit. Press P.

I always use a guitar tuning pedal to tune the Juno 106 as it's not centre-detented.

I've been using CZ101s for 35 years - I don't think I recall the tuning issue you describe as a result of MIDI garble but I guess it's possible. They can 'wander' way out if left unattended for a long time (like months). The others here seem to have more suggestions on that.

God luck and hope you get it sorted!
Old 1 week ago
  #13
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mastropiero View Post
Transpose and tuning are definitely different concepts. Tuning at 440 or 442 should be virtually unnoticeable. The tuning differences you are reporting are clearly a transpose problem. It may happen if the internal battery is faulty and the memory where the transpose parameter is stored becomes corrupt (that would be consistent with the issue reappearing after turning the unit off).

On the other hand, are you sure the problem isn't on the Juno side? Have you analysed the MIDI data coming from the Juno? Have you compared the CZ tuning to other synths?
From what I understand there is no internal battery in the CZ101. You have to install normal batteries into the unit and I have done so. It seems as if the sequencer is messing with the CZ101. Never had any issues with the Juno (transpose and tuning is all way). Maybe I`ll try to transpose the Juno after the CZ101 because the CZ101 seems to be "out of whack"
Old 1 week ago
  #14
Quote:
Originally Posted by James Lehmann View Post
I have a Juno 106 and a CZ101.

You don't need to press Key Transpose to centre the cent pitch increments with the two-button trick.

I assume when you press Key Transpose the screen says 'C' ? - if it doesn't use the Up/Down parameter buttons to get it into the key of C.

Then press the two tuning buttons at once which will indeed 'centre' the cents tuning.

Stick some new batteries in the unit. Press P.

I always use a guitar tuning pedal to tune the Juno 106 as it's not centre-detented.

I've been using CZ101s for 35 years - I don't think I recall the tuning issue you describe as a result of MIDI garble but I guess it's possible. They can 'wander' way out if left unattended for a long time (like months). The others here seem to have more suggestions on that.

God luck and hope you get it sorted!
Thanks alot for your input. I have now indeed identified that it is the sequencer/DAW that is creating the problem. If I turn on the CZ101 and the Juno without opening the DAW/sequencer the synths are in tune (CZ101 is transposed to "C") and the Juno is tuned with a guitar tuner. However when I turn on the DAW and try to sequence something the DAW automatically detunes the CZ101 (the two tuning buttons trick "in reverse"). It does this again and again so I have to redo the "two button trick every time I restart the sequencer - I can`t work like this!:P
Old 1 week ago
  #15
Gear Addict
 
mu:zines's Avatar
 

Master Tuning on the CZ series is MIDI CC #6 , so just make sure your sequencer isn't sending that (it shouldn't be, if it is.)

If you can't do it individually, then make sure MIDI CC's in general are not being reset on a start/stop, as CC #6 set to 0 is the flattest tuning - it needs to be reset to 63 or 64 (midway).

If you mention what DAW you are using, someone here will undoubtedly tell you where the MIDI reset messages preferences are where you can turn this off.
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