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Native Instruments abandons legacy products
Old 5th May 2020
  #151
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EvilDragon's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbuonacc View Post
not too thrilled with 'FreeStyle' for a few reasons, though maybe he's improved certain aspects of it (been a few years since i've looked at it). still no audio feedback routing? Kore could do that i think?
AFAIK no Kore 2 couldn't do that. And Freestyle is improving decently, I would say. Still not a full replacement for Kore 2, not sure if it ever will be (or if JWH really wants it to be), though.
Old 5th May 2020
  #152
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enossified's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbuonacc View Post
huh? you can still buy 'Kore 2' (and expansions) second hand and download/install them via Native Access.
But you can't download them from NI any more, which was what jbuonacc had suggested they could do with unsupported products.

Happy for those of you who have been able to keep Kore 2 running. I was lucky, I was going to buy the K2 hardware (I'd been using the player for a while with some packs I had bought) the very week they announced it was no longer available for sale. I was disappointed, but at least I hadn't dropped my money into a torpedoed ship.
Old 5th May 2020
  #153
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greggybud's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbuonacc View Post
not too thrilled with 'FreeStyle' for a few reasons, though maybe he's improved certain aspects of it (been a few years since i've looked at it). still no audio feedback routing? Kore could do that i think?
I don't know if audio feedback is available in FreeStyle or Kore, because I never had that objective. My biggest missing feature in FreeStyle is the Kore-style morphing between patches. And sadly, the vibe I get from JWH is that it's not something his target market even desires. From what I see, FreeStyle and his other products are more about creative wave manipulation/sampling targeting EDM.

Just recently, I turned in a bug where FreeStyle wouldn't correctly scan certain UAD plug-ins. Considering how long FreeStyle has been around and not properly scanning UAD? That tells me something about his market. Granted, most UAD plugs aren't what I would think normal plugs to use in FreeStyle, but still I guess I assumed this would have been caught by now. JWH recently fixed this within a couple weeks! Great communication and customer service!

Maybe too much time has now elapsed between the abandonment of NI Kore and a true Kore-type replacement for today? I note some people still think the Kore main function was a VST "holder" then post a link to a free-ware "replacement."
Old 5th May 2020
  #154
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greggybud's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by enossified View Post
But you can't download them from NI any more, which was what jbuonacc had suggested they could do with unsupported products.

Happy for those of you who have been able to keep Kore 2 running. I was lucky, I was going to buy the K2 hardware (I'd been using the player for a while with some packs I had bought) the very week they announced it was no longer available for sale. I was disappointed, but at least I hadn't dropped my money into a torpedoed ship.
Sorry this doesn't make sense to me. I must be misunderstanding?

The Kore2 hardware hasn't been available from NI in close to 10 years. Yes, you can buy them used, often for under $100.

The Kore expansion packs iirc, were discontinued about the same time NI abandoned Kore years ago. I still see some buy & sell of expansions packs in the Kore forum. Are you saying you saw NI still selling them up to recent times?

The latest Kore drivers, midi editor, expansion pack updates etc are still available, but do note they are all very old.
Old 5th May 2020
  #155
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jbuonacc's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by enossified View Post
But you can't download them from NI any more, which was what jbuonacc had suggested they could do with unsupported products. ...
both those comments were from me. i never owned Kore back when it was around, but bought it used off KVR a few years ago along with a couple (??) expansions. i was able to download and install them just fine.

that was on my last pc though, honestly can't remember if i used Native Access or Service Center at the time. pretty sure they were still available in Native Access when i installed most of my NI stuff on this new pc. i was also recently able to create a transfer for them as well, i'm selling them in a bundle along with Komplete 12 and a bunch of other NI stuff.
Old 6th May 2020
  #156
Gear Guru
 
EvilDragon's Avatar
I can still download full Kore 2 installer ISO from my NI account page...
Old 5 days ago
  #157
Gear Head
 

Me not like what read.
I specifically want to track down Absynth Mac 1 or 2 - I would pay but they're not selling. I also know where I shouldn't look and can't even find it there.
It's like it just vanished from the face...
Old 5 days ago
  #158
Gear Guru
 
EvilDragon's Avatar
Even if you found Absynth 1/2 you wouldn't be able to activate it. But I'm not sure why you'd want to do that - newer versions of Absynth have everything the first versions had, and sound the same (plus all the newer features that were added).
Old 4 days ago
  #159
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Gnalvl's Avatar
 

Honestly I'm way more annoyed that their new "Native Access" downloader/DRM app is borked on Windows and has been crashing on open since 2019. Most of the premium plugins my girlfriend uses are NI plugins I bought her on sale 5-6 years ago, and now she can't install them.

That being said, I payed $25-50 a pop for these, because it was always just the holiday sales that roped me into NI products. When it comes to paying full price, I gravitate towards devs like Uhe that have better long-term support (also I just like their products better).
Old 4 days ago
  #160
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jbuonacc's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gnalvl View Post
Honestly I'm way more annoyed that their new "Native Access" downloader/DRM app is borked on Windows and has been crashing on open since 2019. ...
no problem here.
Old 4 days ago
  #161
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
I can still download full Kore 2 installer ISO from my NI account page...
I recently tried to install Kore 2 on my system and it wouldn't activate no matter what I did. Luckily I had my very first MacBook Pro from 2007 laying around somewhere and was able to boot it up to get what I needed off of that.
Old 4 days ago
  #162
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
Also, you seriously underestimate the efford and back-end legacy required to support activating those super old products, as I say in that thread, those old activation methods are creating way more trouble and prevent NI's back-end from moving forward, modularization and streamlining. It's far from just keeping one server active for Service Center. But also, Service Center itself was officially discontinued about two years ago, which means no support and no more work done on it.
Cry me a river.

What you seem to overlook here is that THEY are the ones who chose how they would deliver the software and the terms for using it. They could have just sold it with no copy protection. They could have used a dongle system. They could have done any number of other things. What THEY chose was a system where the end users pay a one-off fee and in return can install and reinstall the software with activation codes as necessary.

OK, s*** happens, they now find it's technologically unfeasible to issue the codes (although I really don't understand why, when in the old days with many companies you had the option to phone up and get a code to reinstall something). But surely the only reasonable solution to that is to supply the users with non-copy protected versions of the programs so that they aren't the ones punished for a bad decision they weren't party to?

And the usual anti-piracy arguments surely don't apply if the software concerned is as obsolete and irrelevant as people are arguing here. If a fifteen-year-old version of B4 is SOOO much worse than current products that we can't imagine why anyone would even CARE about being able to use it when they've legally paid for it, then releasing it with no DRM will surely have zero effect on sales of those current products.

This is insane, certainly immoral and I'm struggling to believe that it's legal. And ridiculous when there's a simple solution.
Old 4 days ago
  #163
Here for the gear
 

Just had a look at the KVR thread linked earlier. There is a quote in it from the EULA of one of these program versions at the time, showing they absolutely, unequivocally, committed to providing a licence-free copy of the software should they be unable to keep licensing it.

So all I'm actually suggesting is that they honour the terms of their own licence agreement, which they wrote and then presented to customers who had no say in the matter.
Old 4 days ago
  #164
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EvilDragon's Avatar
You're implying there's even a single machine left at NI that has all the old codebases and correct dependencies and compilers that can actually rebuild those old plugins with DRM removed.

Also the terms of EULA have changed and you accepted it as soon as you logged into Native Access.
Old 4 days ago
  #165
Gear Maniac
 

What's with the odd justifying by some people here? This is just a shit move, no matter how you spin it and one of many good reasons to move away from NI.
Old 4 days ago
  #166
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
You're implying there's even a single machine left at NI that has all the old codebases and correct dependencies and compilers that can actually rebuild those old plugins with DRM removed.
No, I'm saying that as they were the ones who came up with the idea in the first place, and put it in their EULA, that if they can't continue to authorise the software they will supply a DRM-free version, how they do that and what challenges are involved is THEIR PROBLEM.

How can it be anything else? THEY put that clause in the EULA, not me. Surely when they did so, it should have signalled that part of their long term maintenance of the business must be keeping it possible to create such DRM-free versions of their products? Otherwise they're just enforcing a licence agreement on their customers that they know they have no chance of being able to honour themselves.

Now, I'm NOT saying that I'm unwilling to be understanding here and acknowledge that such issues arise in such a constantly shifting industry. What I'm saying is that since it's their problem, caused by their f***-up, whatever solution is proposed must be at their inconvenience, not mine. As long as they can work out a way I can continue to use what I've paid for, fine. I don't care what it is. But there's no way you can build an argument here that I should have my rights according to the EULA taken away, just because they haven't done what they needed to do to ensure they can honour their commitment to it. If they really, physically can't do this, then they should refund my purchase price.

But I have to say, given how quickly and (apparently) easily most of these programs got cracked soon after release, the idea that they can't be cracked by the people themselves who made them is pretty far fetched.

Quote:
Also the terms of EULA have changed and you accepted it as soon as you logged into Native Access.
How on Earth can logging into a different service retroactively change the licence agreement for a piece of software that both parties have agreed to? What exactly did I agree to when logging into NA that somehow did that to every separate EULA I'd previously agreed with them?
Old 3 days ago
  #167
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jbuonacc's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wurlitzer View Post
How on Earth can logging into a different service retroactively change the licence agreement for a piece of software that both parties have agreed to? What exactly did I agree to when logging into NA that somehow did that to every separate EULA I'd previously agreed with them?
are you married? from what i can tell, those vows don’t actually mean too much at all.
Old 3 days ago
  #168
Here for the gear
 

I guess that's why people get pre-nups, so that they do.
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