The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
Roland Jupiter Xm: an encounter
Old 1st March 2020
  #91
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by xanax View Post
IMO never. Those guys at Roland HQ are lab coat engineers. They don’t make analog anymore so they got coders designing their synths, hence all the menu diving. I predict in the future a mouse & keyboard will be included in the box.

Their marketing team told them it has to look retro but they never consulted an actual musician to figure out the UI side of things. The XM was so rushed there is actually a big sticker on the panel for the model names!

All that said, the 303 or Mc-202 were infamous for their cryptic programming, but that didn’t stop pioneers from making cult classics with them. When there is a will there is a way..
They do do analog synths. Menu diving or not has nothing to do with analog or not thought, just look at the SYSTEM-8. Roland knows how to make an easy synth when an easy synth is what they're aiming for. It's when you pack a lot of power in a small space that you get more menu time. Also, it's the multitimbrality + multi layers + multi engines, some of which quite complex, that make the Xm not an easy pick up, not so much the diving. It's those various things that you had to navigate and turn off to get to the basic raw patches that you wanted for example.

Now, allow me to post this again:
Quote:
Originally Posted by ToyBox View Post
While 80 is in the air, here's a choice quote from a JUPITER-80 review:
Controller-wise, the Jupiter-80 is pretty sparse for a performance instrument and this is its biggest downfall. There's the usual pitch/mod wheel, four volume part sliders/switches, the D-Beam (for hands-off expression) plus four assignable dials under the screen that are preset to control filter cutoff (for the upper and lower parts) and for controlling the 'tone blender' function, that allows you to control multiple parameters via one dial (which is a godsend).

It's a real shame that this basic interface lets the Jupiter-80 down, as it really is a super-powerful synth and thus it would have really benefited (like the Jupiter-8) from dedicated hardware controls for envelopes, filters and effects - why just a reverb and rotary on/off?

We would have been much happier with a tiny screen and a full compliment of analogue-style sliders, dials and switches (like the JD-800 or JP-8000) and this would have made many people take it much more seriously as a Jupiter-8 successor.
Emphasis mine. Somebody got what they wanted


I guess they'll get the balance of not too retro, not too futuristic in the next JUPITER generation in a decade or so.
That somebody is goldphinga, experienced musician, posted in this thread two pages ago. He seems to not regret that wish

He was not alone in wanting that vintage experience back either. The X is in many ways, point for point, what some wanted the JP-80 or SYSTEM-8 to be. You can find the comments on GS.

I'm not aware of anyone asking for something like Xm specifically, that's Roland's own idea, but when you condense something as powerful as this you necessarily get more diving and more modality. The issue is not really the UI, has its flaws but pretty good given the contraints, it's that this a lot more powerful than what some want it to be.

Lastly, they can't print the models name on the panel because what model is assigned to what button is something that you decide. Furthermore, my understating is that the feedback they're getting will influence what models they add next, so it's really not something they can print in advance.
Old 1st March 2020
  #92
Lives for gear
 
xanax's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by ToyBox View Post
They do do analog synths. Menu diving or not has nothing to do with analog or not thought, just look at the SYSTEM-8. Roland knows how to make an easy synth when an easy synth is what they're aiming for. It's when you pack a lot of power in a small space that you get more menu time. Also, it's the multitimbrality + multi layers + multi engines, some of which quite complex, that make the Xm not an easy pick up, not so much the diving. It's those various things that you had to navigate and turn off to get to the basic raw patches that you wanted for example.
When Roland clone the UI of their legacy analog synths (like the boutiques) they succeed, but when it comes to new designs (JD-XA, JP-80, JP-XM) they kinda fail imo.

Also the menu diving is real, and is an additional problem to the complex architecture. Roland chose a tiny screen with endless lists of params so you need to scroll through a lot sometimes to edit very basic synth settings. At least on the MC-707 the same display has a more intuitive diagram block GUI.

Getting access to any advanced settings is a chore. your scrolling up & down, left & right. There are also button combos to memorize for "quicker access".

Furthermore, on the much more expensive Jupiter-X, that same display is in a very awkward left-hand position. A flagship at that price could have benefited from a much better display and GUI imo. In that regards i guess it's quite reminiscent to the JX-8P programming!

Anyways, YMMV. Some people love programming rack units and find it all very logical. Depends how your brain is wired I guess. My opinion is that there is quite a learning curve and that some UI decisions are quite jarring.

I still want one though
Old 1st March 2020
  #93
Gear Addict
 
FlyingMusician's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by fiddlestickz View Post
I hate that feeling of everything shrunk.
Agreed, except for the price.

I know some like the Xm but as a long time Roland fan, I find the Xm to be the worst synth Roland has ever made. But not because of the sound, but because of the UI. When you see tutorial videos coming out called "How to select a scene" you know the design is abysmal.

"When you get in front of a Jupiter X and think how do I do this, how do I do that?" Just watch this video. Even they know their UI stinks. This would have never made it out the door from the older teams that made Roland famous.
Old 1st March 2020
  #94
Deleted 3eb1160
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyingMusician View Post
Agreed, except for the price.

I know some like the Xm but as a long time Roland fan, I find the Xm to be the worst synth Roland has ever made. But not because of the sound, but because of the UI. When you see tutorial videos coming out called "How to select a scene" you know the design is abysmal.
Let the time tell.
I am quite sure it's a great synth, given the attacks here. Why bothering if it was a bad one?
Usually many attacks mean that it catches the attention.
Anyway, I have an mc101 and going to get a 707 soon, I am blown away by the quality of sounds even in the smallest and cheapest of all the range.
If I had to get a regular synth, I would get the new Fantom anyway.

Ps: A good way of reviewing a synth is to learn its workflow before complaining for a bad workflow.
People were saying the same for 101/707 but after a week I learnt the workflow and I am comfortable with it.
Old 1st March 2020
  #95
Lives for gear
 
gentleclockdivid's Avatar
 

The mc 101 hardly has any editing parameteres , so it's not a good example of delving into zen core workflow
Old 1st March 2020
  #96
Deleted 3eb1160
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by gentleclockdivid View Post
The mc 101 hardly has any editing parameteres , so it's not a good example of delving into zen core workflow
Yeah I am gonna upgrade to 707 soon.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #97
Lives for gear
 
wagoo's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by xanax View Post
I predict in the future a mouse & keyboard will be included in the box.
Future?
Old 4 weeks ago
  #98
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by xanax View Post
When Roland clone the UI of their legacy analog synths (like the boutiques) they succeed, but when it comes to new designs (JD-XA, JP-80, JP-XM) they kinda fail imo.

I still want one though
Even with the boutiques there is a learning curve. If you have several boutiques, try to remember something as simple as changing the midi channel. In every boutique is a different way, using combinations of keys or even involving switching the unit on and off. A small display for global setting would have been perfect.
Topic:
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Forum Jump
Forum Jump