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New polyend sampler
Old 23rd March 2020
  #481
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Petajaja View Post
Could some possibly change the name of this thread to: Polyend Tracker ?

I feel having it titled polyend sampler is giving people the wrong idea about this thing and causing everyone to compare it to other samplers and what features this lacks compared to them. The focus of this thing is it's tracker and how it's integrated with it's sample based sound engine. If someone was just looking for a sampler there'd be better options out there I'm sure.
The title is fine since this IS a sampler as well.
Old 23rd March 2020
  #482
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by marcgood View Post
The title is fine since this IS a sampler as well.
Yeah but the name of the product is "Polyend Tracker" And I'm sure there was a reason they chose that name, I see so many people coming in here and talk this down because it hasn't got all the features of ____ And I feel like those people are missing the point. It's a shame to be hurting small companies with stuff like that especially during these hard times.
Old 23rd March 2020
  #483
Gear Addict
Gets excited to read new posts and realises its some pedantic GS waffling on about the name
Old 23rd March 2020
  #484
Gear Nut
 

Lmao so sorry I got your hopes up.

If you want up to date news I recommend joining the tracker group on Facebook, the newest info in regards to this is they're still on schedule for June or sooner and bogdan raczynski has one and will be posting demos of it.
Old 23rd March 2020
  #485
Gear Addict
Cheers Petajaja will do
Old 24th March 2020
  #486
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enossified's Avatar
Slightly OT here, but can someone explain what makes a tracker different than just using a MIDI sequencer event list? I've never been able to get my head around the concept.
Old 24th March 2020
  #487
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enossified View Post
Slightly OT here, but can someone explain what makes a tracker different than just using a MIDI sequencer event list? I've never been able to get my head around the concept.
Very little.
There is a serious misconception of what a tracker is, in the first instance it is tied entirely to the audio engine for micro editing and easy channel switching to save polyphony (the Amiga only had/has 4 note hardware polyphony) this was to create simple fully encapsulated real time playback files for building in to games, MIDI was an afterthought in trackers, not it's primary goal or even its best use case, in fact MIDI in a game file was a hindrance because it would need to trigger something, using resources not available back in those days (Yes musicians ran with it and used external hardware etc, besides the point)
In the second instance it is assumed by many here that trackers where first and foremost software, again this is not the case at all, trackers first and foremost where originally a hardware device, they used the 4 note polyphonic sample playback built in to the Amiga hardware, this was a hardware engine not a software audio engine.

So take it like this, this tracker versus original tracker (Amiga hardware, not software) is actually quite an upgrade, this tracker versus second generation trackers (Bypass on board audio hardware for extra polyphony) is a little upgrade, this tracker versus all out software trackers, be it 486 DOS through PDA through to modern computers is a huge downgrade.

Weigh all that up before considering this product either way.
If this sells well, there will be a LOT of these on ebay not too long after they go on sale, a lot of people are expecting something that this is not.
I would suggest trying any tracker software before even considering this product, to say tracking is a very specific user type is no exaggeration, you love it or hate it, there is very little middle ground.
Old 24th March 2020
  #488
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bungle View Post
V
Weigh all that up before considering this product either way.
If this sells well, there will be a LOT of these on ebay not too long after they go on sale, a lot of people are expecting something that this is not.
I would suggest trying any tracker software before even considering this product, to say tracking is a very specific user type is no exaggeration, you love it or hate it, there is very little middle ground.
being sure of what you're getting is always great advice, but just out of curiosity what is it that you think people are thinking this is that it isn't, loop's video seemed concise enough Imo, and there aren't that many features yet although thee might be late but... what is it that you think people are expecting or not getting?
Old 24th March 2020
  #489
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jiffybox's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Derp View Post
Thanks for namedropping them. Hadn't heard of that before and am really digging their tracks, especially Lusine.
Ghostly is one of the bet labels out there and Lusine has influenced and informed my music for well over a decade now. His first Ghostly album is masterful.
Old 24th March 2020
  #490
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All semantic nonsense aside, it’s a sequencer. Simple as that.
Old 24th March 2020
  #491
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Quote:
Originally Posted by camus2 View Post
Yeah, the whole "be careful it's a tracker" dance here is just stupid. You can record sequences in realtime like any other sequencer worth its salt, and there is a performance mode that has absolutely nothing to do with trackers. It's its own thing.

The way it handles polyphony is a bit weird, but I wish the digitakt could actually do that for instance, instead of requiring an external device for that purpose.

All hardware sequencers have their advantages and shortcomings, it's a matter of asking oneself if they can live with the shortcomings.
if you can't record those performance features into the sequencer that would be a shame though
Old 24th March 2020
  #492
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain 8 View Post
being sure of what you're getting is always great advice, but just out of curiosity what is it that you think people are thinking this is that it isn't, loop's video seemed concise enough Imo, and there aren't that many features yet although thee might be late but... what is it that you think people are expecting or not getting?
People keep asking about MIDI sequencing for example, if you want a good MIDI sequencer look elsewhere "If i play a seven note chord I will be out of tracks" look elsewhere, they should havd given this a dual boot mode and have the option to boot in to AROS and call it Amiga X or something, for anybody trying to get back some feeling of the old days, this thing is cheaper than a quality Amiga set up after refurb and recapping etc.
Old 24th March 2020
  #493
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ArtFluids's Avatar
You won't be able to handle the restrictions
Old 24th March 2020
  #494
Gear Addict
It could work well with Blackbox. Like BB is great at (very quickly) getting a track up and running but not so good thereafter (ie sequencing/automation of bits etc). So if something else is a feeder then maybe this tracker would be great at taking those loops into another place and something more complete as a composition. The 8 track thing is a limitation tho
Old 24th March 2020
  #495
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akai_world View Post
fiddly fckin thing....severe lack of support...useless community (the most active thread is one asking where each other lives)...a sort of arrogance from the developer with a 'take what your given attitude'. I have a whole list of basic, like really basic things that need implementing. Overall I struggle to get creative with it (compared to the OP-1), its more you get what you put in sort of device and lacks any happy accidents.
This post is very misleading. Black box has excellent support! The device is constantly being updated and has an extremely active forum/group. If you have a question and someone in the group doesn’t answer, someone from 1010music will reply swiftly.
Old 24th March 2020
  #496
Gear Addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adison View Post
This post is very misleading. Black box has excellent support! The device is constantly being updated and has an extremely active forum/group. If you have a question and someone in the group doesn’t answer, someone from 1010music will reply swiftly.
Equally misleading. If you call a minor update to the file structure every 8 weeks a constant update then great. Ask a question on the forum and its not responsive at all - however the facebook group i agree is better.
Old 24th March 2020
  #497
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enossified's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bungle View Post
Very little.
There is a serious misconception of what a tracker is, in the first instance it is tied entirely to the audio engine for micro editing and easy channel switching to save polyphony (the Amiga only had/has 4 note hardware polyphony) this was to create simple fully encapsulated real time playback files for building in to games

Thanks Bungle!

I understand that. I actually worked on an ancient PC (Ohio Scientific?) that had a DAC that could be addressed by machine code. As a senior project my lab partner and I wrote a bunch of programs that played specific melodies via the DAC. Talk about prehistoric. Sounds like those early Amiga trackers were a lot easier to use



I've used MIDI event list editing for decades, in both hardware and software for fine tuning sequences beyond the basic cut/paste/quantize functions found in early sequencers. Anybody out there ever used Dr. T's KCS that ran on the Commodore C64 and other early computers? That's what trackers always reminded me of when I'd see pictures.



The Yamaha Motif event editor...no piano roll available.

New polyend sampler-screen-shot-2020-03-24-12.05.11-pm.png
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New polyend sampler-screen-shot-2020-03-24-12.05.11-pm.png  
Old 24th March 2020
  #498
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jbuonacc's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by enossified View Post
... Anybody out there ever used Dr. T's KCS that ran on the Commodore C64 and other early computers? That's what trackers always reminded me of when I'd see pictures.

along with the Alesis MMT-8, an Atari ST running Dr. T’s KCS was my first serious MIDI sequencer. after that i used Cubase on an Atari Falcon030, then an Akai MPC2000XL.

while they look similar, there’s not really too much in common with a tracker and a list editor. in some ways, but not exactly.
Old 25th March 2020
  #499
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enossified View Post
Thanks Bungle!

I understand that. I actually worked on an ancient PC (Ohio Scientific?) that had a DAC that could be addressed by machine code. As a senior project my lab partner and I wrote a bunch of programs that played specific melodies via the DAC. Talk about prehistoric. Sounds like those early Amiga trackers were a lot easier to use



I've used MIDI event list editing for decades, in both hardware and software for fine tuning sequences beyond the basic cut/paste/quantize functions found in early sequencers. Anybody out there ever used Dr. T's KCS that ran on the Commodore C64 and other early computers? That's what trackers always reminded me of when I'd see pictures.



The Yamaha Motif event editor...no piano roll available.

Yes they are basically the same, however, a tracker is a rolling time based list with events, again in the first instance a tracker is tied to the audio engine, so it will have a lot of microediting commands specifically for audio.
A MIDI list editor is generally not a rolling time based list with events, but a list of events with timing information per event.
Old 25th March 2020
  #500
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enossified View Post
Thanks Bungle!

I understand that. I actually worked on an ancient PC (Ohio Scientific?) that had a DAC that could be addressed by machine code. As a senior project my lab partner and I wrote a bunch of programs that played specific melodies via the DAC. Talk about prehistoric. Sounds like those early Amiga trackers were a lot easier to use



I've used MIDI event list editing for decades, in both hardware and software for fine tuning sequences beyond the basic cut/paste/quantize functions found in early sequencers. Anybody out there ever used Dr. T's KCS that ran on the Commodore C64 and other early computers? That's what trackers always reminded me of when I'd see pictures.



The Yamaha Motif event editor...no piano roll available.

Working with a tracker and a midi event list are totally different things. The former is a very efficient and satisfying way of writing music while the latter sucks for the purpose.
Old 25th March 2020
  #501
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the more or maybe the less you might say that I see of the Polyend Tracker I'm coming to the conclusion that simply everything has to be automatable !!! Everything!.....and there has to be a complete sampling chop shop in the unit at this price, and those pads have to be able to play keys/scales etc... and the performance mode has to be recordable into the sequencer. It would still be a nice piece without these things but there is a difference between something being nice and being useful worth the price.
Old 26th March 2020
  #502
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Cornish1999's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sebastian N View Post
I'm a huge fan of his solo work but most of his electronic stuff sounds like 1992 and very average at that
What’s wrong with 1992!
Old 26th March 2020
  #503
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Sebastian N's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cornish1999 View Post
What’s wrong with 1992!
Nothing. in the context of frusciante being a beacon of futuristic electronic music,

1999 is better (obviously)
Old 27th March 2020
  #504
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Cornish1999's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sebastian N View Post
Nothing. in the context of frusciante being a beacon of futuristic electronic music,

1999 is better (obviously)
Thanks for the clarification

Joking aside , I was a really surprised to hear how frusciante had got so into trackers, 303’s and breakcore. I was a big fan of early RHCP and At first I thought it was wind up. Challenged my view of pigeon holing musicians. Talented guy.
Old 27th March 2020
  #505
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Sebastian N's Avatar
 

frusciante is an amazing musician. but i think i read in one of those rare interviews that when he got into electronic music he got into early acid house and idm so his influences and reference is clearly set in a specific time period. also he doesn't go out clubbing so the latest styles kinda fly over as many styles need to be heard on a proper sound system to completely get the vibe
Old 27th March 2020
  #506
Gear Nut
 

So... what exactly is a tracker?
Old 27th March 2020
  #507
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Dairy View Post
So... what exactly is a tracker?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Music_tracker
Old 29th March 2020
  #508
Here for the gear
 

i reached out to polyend this week to see if i could get a few questions answered about their plans for the tracker and created an account here to pass along the info to anyone who might be interested--

1. in light of the fact that they were still working on resampling, i asked if there were going to be later updates to either extend the amount of sample time or the number of tracks. there "is a chance" that they will increase the amount of sample time (please... 'w'), but the number of tracks is going to be permanently limited to eight (which is fine-- eight tracks can do a lot in a tracker).

2. the polyend tracker is going to have the ability to import MOD/IT/XM projects and will be able to export IT projects-- therefore it will be able to bounce projects off the tracker which can then be further modified on things like renoise. (now that i've gone back and rewatched it, the loopop review does mention that there's a file export option but it's largely glossed over, so i suppose this information was already known to some degree.)

frankly? this is sounding like a huge gamechanger for my renoise/tape/hardware setup as i've been trying (and failing) to adjust my workflow around the OT. come july, i'll probably either be swapping the OT for the PT or testing out how the two of them work in conjunction with each other.
Old 29th March 2020
  #509
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re5etuk's Avatar
I’m still confused.

Why not just use a laptop and renoise instead of using tracker and then export project to be use and tweaked further in renoise ?

This device looks like a similar size to a laptop and similar price to a decent laptop.

If anybody really wants a portable tracker why not buy a £500 laptop ? ( with all the advantages that would bring )
Old 29th March 2020
  #510
Gear Maniac
 
kuroichi's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by re5etuk View Post
I’m still confused.

Why not just use a laptop and renoise instead of using tracker and then export project to be use and tweaked further in renoise ?

This device looks like a similar size to a laptop and similar price to a decent laptop.

If anybody really wants a portable tracker why not buy a £500 laptop ? ( with all the advantages that would bring )
I’ve been wondering whether the lack of hex could be a selling point. That plus using the hot keys below the screen or the white pads along the bottom would allow fast hands on editing.

The one thing this has versus a laptop setup is that the interface does look to be paired quite well to the hardware. Plus Midi sync etc could be more convenient versus a laptop. Renoise is also much more complex which could be off putting.

Overall I imagine this could end up pushing some users toward Renoise, especially if they really get into the tracker method. But I do think there is something about having a nicely designed hardware unit that you can focus on getting the most from. Plus if they utilise the pads in a manner similar to the medusa then it could be useful for those who want to ‘perform’ in some way.
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