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If you could...Moog One or Vintage Matrix 12?
Old 26th February 2020
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by apessino View Post
No you don't -
you are out of tune, pls update a deviation of a quarter of a tone and more .. they must have cauliflower in their ears ...

from a owner...:

.............. C3 ........... C2 ........... C1
v1.......... +8 ........... +1 .......... +13
v2.......... -7 .......... +10 ........... +1
v3.......... +7 .......... -3 ........... -11
v4.......... +4 .......... -1 ........... -13
v5.......... -9 .......... +2 ............ +3
v6.......... +0 ......... +18 .......... -19
v7......... +14 ........ +33 ........... -45
v8.......... +9 ......... +10 .......... -43
v9......... -16 .......... -7 ........... +24
v10....... +20 ......... +16 ......... -74
v11........ +9 ......... +0 ............ -24
v12........ -4 ......... +22 ........... -28
V13........ -4 ......... +12 ........... -10
V14........ -2 ......... +23 ............ +5
V15........ +1 ......... +12 .......... -12
v16........ +4 ......... +15 ........... -7

there are more such posts ..

but there is a small picardian village, there one builds this polyphonic moog source..it is relatively stable as far as the tune .. and much more important .. fat in the sound ..has no fans that make noise, but a famous fan

Old 4 weeks ago
  #62
Gear Maniac
One question I do have for any M12 owners regarding the Multi-Patches.

Is it possible to stack for example 4 different patches/voices and play three note polyphony?

As I understand it the Moog One is Tri-timbral, but can the M12 do more than that?
Old 4 weeks ago
  #63
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pppch's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oberheim View Post
One question I do have for any M12 owners regarding the Multi-Patches.

Is it possible to stack for example 4 different patches/voices and play three note polyphony?

As I understand it the Moog One is Tri-timbral, but can the M12 do more than that?
12 part multitimbral with up to 6 zones

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oberhe...x_synthesizers
Old 4 weeks ago
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pppch View Post
you are out of tune, pls update a deviation of a quarter of a tone and more .. they must have cauliflower in their ears ...

from a owner...:

.............. C3 ........... C2 ........... C1
v1.......... +8 ........... +1 .......... +13
v2.......... -7 .......... +10 ........... +1
v3.......... +7 .......... -3 ........... -11
v4.......... +4 .......... -1 ........... -13
v5.......... -9 .......... +2 ............ +3
v6.......... +0 ......... +18 .......... -19
v7......... +14 ........ +33 ........... -45
v8.......... +9 ......... +10 .......... -43
v9......... -16 .......... -7 ........... +24
v10....... +20 ......... +16 ......... -74
v11........ +9 ......... +0 ............ -24
v12........ -4 ......... +22 ........... -28
V13........ -4 ......... +12 ........... -10
V14........ -2 ......... +23 ............ +5
V15........ +1 ......... +12 .......... -12
v16........ +4 ......... +15 ........... -7

there are more such posts ..

but there is a small picardian village, there one builds this polyphonic moog source..it is relatively stable as far as the tune .. and much more important .. fat in the sound ..has no fans that make noise, but a famous fan

I think I’m going to order a white River.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #65
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by pppch View Post
you are out of tune, pls update a deviation of a quarter of a tone and more .. they must have cauliflower in their ears ...

from a owner...:

.............. C3 ........... C2 ........... C1
v1.......... +8 ........... +1 .......... +13
v2.......... -7 .......... +10 ........... +1
v3.......... +7 .......... -3 ........... -11
v4.......... +4 .......... -1 ........... -13
v5.......... -9 .......... +2 ............ +3
v6.......... +0 ......... +18 .......... -19
v7......... +14 ........ +33 ........... -45
v8.......... +9 ......... +10 .......... -43
v9......... -16 .......... -7 ........... +24
v10....... +20 ......... +16 ......... -74
v11........ +9 ......... +0 ............ -24
v12........ -4 ......... +22 ........... -28
V13........ -4 ......... +12 ........... -10
V14........ -2 ......... +23 ............ +5
V15........ +1 ......... +12 .......... -12
v16........ +4 ......... +15 ........... -7

there are more such posts ..

but there is a small picardian village, there one builds this polyphonic moog source..it is relatively stable as far as the tune .. and much more important .. fat in the sound ..has no fans that make noise, but a famous fan

Does it have a Modulation Matrix? I couldn’t seem to find anything about that
Old 4 weeks ago
  #66
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pppch's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oberheim View Post
Does it have a Modulation Matrix? I couldn’t seem to find anything about that
no modulation matrix, this is a classic synth like jupiter and co.
but don't be blinded by it, all the bazillion modulation options don't make the sound of an m1 better ..
and the matrix is unfortunately not considered the top sound synth ..
that's the big advantage of the river .. the sound ..

I haven't heard an owner here who didn't feel that way.

I also see that on my synths jp8 eg. can't do anything .. but that right .. is much more important .. if I want crazy modulation options, I take the medusa .. against it all polys look quite old





Old 4 weeks ago
  #67
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Space Station's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oberheim View Post
I'm a little torn.

Matrix 12 has been my dream synth for years... finding one has been a real pain - they are rare as rocking horse $%#$ and I may have an opportunity.

BUT...

The Moog One is also tempting me and is a similar price.

What would you do?
Don't focus too much on features and base the decision on the raw tone. Those two synths couldn't be further apart in sound. Personally I never liked the Matrix/Xpander tone..I really don't like that buzzy quality when the filter is open..I really struggle finding the sweet spot on them, it's great having 15 filter types but it makes no difference if the basic tone isn't there for you.

So I'd go Moog One 100% between those two.

My imaginary dream synth would have been the Matrix 12/Xpander functionality with the OBX sonics.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #68
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excerpt from a test :

"Yeah yeah - absolutely. In a direct comparison, I would say that the Moog One sounds much more clinical.

So for me it is like this, I turn the thing on, play some lines and chords and either I have the feeling, wow, there is a feeling where I say that is really analog - and I did that for example with the Moog One not had. Although it is also fully analog, you can argue about what "analog" really means when it comes to sound. They designed a new oscillator model for the Moog One - and that's just a matter of taste, whether you like it or not. I personally think it’s OK, but it didn’t happen, which I felt funny about the Baloran. After the first notes, I thought: "It's alive." It was just a feeling for me, from the very first second."
Old 4 weeks ago
  #69
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As someone nicely said: the Moog One sounds as good as you can program it
And yes, it is a chameleon, thanks to the variable saw slopes, the variable saw-tri shapes, and the tons of combinations of the filters.
And yes, you have to sculpt your envelopes yourself (especially if you are into vintage classic tones: exponential curves vs linear).
But the Matrix 12 is also a very deep programmer synth.
So one thing for sure: if you are into sound design, you should never get bored with those two.
That said, you don’t have to do super complex sci-fi things to play music



Old 4 weeks ago
  #70
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pppch's Avatar
 

are unfortunately all paid promotional videos .. I would enjoy with caution ..
I think the very first one is quite good .. you can hear what the sound is missing.
strange overtone spectra and a certain sterility ..




but in addition to the sound .. de m1 has hardware problems .. starting with the audible fans .. the heat of the dsp,s and the resulting problems ..
i don't know any synth who has had so many firmware updates in such a short time .. a new record .. and it doesn't seem to end

listen this to the comparison .. attention .. is not commercial

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/atta...experiment.mp3

Old 4 weeks ago
  #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oberheim View Post
One question I do have for any M12 owners regarding the Multi-Patches.

Is it possible to stack for example 4 different patches/voices and play three note polyphony?

As I understand it the Moog One is Tri-timbral, but can the M12 do more than that?
yeah.. there are 6 zones and you can alot any number of voices to each zone, which can cover any range of keys across the keyboard. It's a really simple system that has some nice benefits like being able to control semi-tone (or is it octave?) and fine-tuning for each voice. So if you want, say, a 4-voice style patch with each voice being a little "off" in terms of tuning, this is really easy to do.

The one downside for me is that because multi-timbral mode relies on single patches, if you reprogram a patch then... the multi changes with it. For less adventurous programmers this may not be a big deal, but 99 patches is really not that many and I have literally got no free patch space left on mine. Which also means that I can't dedicate 6 or 12 separate patches to making a 6- or 12-voice style patch where each voice is just a little different than the next.

For this reason, I've tended to not use multi patches at all--I often find single patches are more than rich enough--but I appreciate there is also a world of patch layering or alternation that I am really not tapping into enough.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #72
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Snorktop's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by pppch View Post
de m1 has hardware problems .. starting with the audible fans .. the heat of the dsp,s and the resulting problems ..
I don't recall any such problems with the M1.

Old 4 weeks ago
  #73
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markwalkerjr's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by pppch View Post
are unfortunately all paid promotional videos .. I would enjoy with caution ..
I think the very first one is quite good .. you can hear what the sound is missing.
strange overtone spectra and a certain sterility ..




but in addition to the sound .. de m1 has hardware problems .. starting with the audible fans .. the heat of the dsp,s and the resulting problems ..
i don't know any synth who has had so many firmware updates in such a short time .. a new record .. and it doesn't seem to end

listen this to the comparison .. attention .. is not commercial

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/atta...experiment.mp3

Good lord you’re such a tiresome fellow.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #74
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daviddever's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by pppch View Post
i don't know any synth who has had so many firmware updates in such a short time .. a new record .. and it doesn't seem to end
I'd hardly call continuous deployment a bad thing - nor would most companies larger than a school bus.

Nine builds is hardly "a new record": https://www.moogmusic.com/downloads?type=195

You could troll harder.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #75
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by Space Station View Post
Don't focus too much on features and base the decision on the raw tone. Those two synths couldn't be further apart in sound. Personally I never liked the Matrix/Xpander tone..I really don't like that buzzy quality when the filter is open..I really struggle finding the sweet spot on them, it's great having 15 filter types but it makes no difference if the basic tone isn't there for you.

So I'd go Moog One 100% between those two.

My imaginary dream synth would have been the Matrix 12/Xpander functionality with the OBX sonics.
I love making patches for all kinds of applications just as much as I like playing, so having a Mod Matrix is important. For that reason the River is out of the question for me. It does sound great, don’t get me wrong, but for me personally I would get a bit bored. Throw a Mod Matrix on it and id be all over it

Last edited by Reptil; 4 weeks ago at 11:05 AM..
Old 4 weeks ago
  #76
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Ruff View Post
yeah.. there are 6 zones and you can alot any number of voices to each zone, which can cover any range of keys across the keyboard. It's a really simple system that has some nice benefits like being able to control semi-tone (or is it octave?) and fine-tuning for each voice. So if you want, say, a 4-voice style patch with each voice being a little "off" in terms of tuning, this is really easy to do.

The one downside for me is that because multi-timbral mode relies on single patches, if you reprogram a patch then... the multi changes with it. For less adventurous programmers this may not be a big deal, but 99 patches is really not that many and I have literally got no free patch space left on mine. Which also means that I can't dedicate 6 or 12 separate patches to making a 6- or 12-voice style patch where each voice is just a little different than the next.

For this reason, I've tended to not use multi patches at all--I often find single patches are more than rich enough--but I appreciate there is also a world of patch layering or alternation that I am really not tapping into enough.
So this is what I’m excited about - personally I love the sound of it and the idea that I can stack 4 patches on top of each other is awesome.

I guess it would require some Sysex Libraries to get the most out of it but I’m cool with that.

Difficult choice.

Plus I need to somehow convince my wife this is a good idea. This part is going to be harder than making a choice between the M12 and the M One
Old 4 weeks ago
  #77
Gear Maniac
Unless.....

I buy an Xpander and an Moog One and get the best of both worlds.

Or buy the M12 and wait a year or two and get the M One after saving some more cash
Old 4 weeks ago
  #78
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pppch's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oberheim View Post
Unless.....

I buy an Xpander and an Moog One and get the best of both worlds.

Or buy the M12 and wait a year or two and get the M One after saving some more cash
that's wise, either the bugs will be fixed by then, or more likely .. something better is coming onto the market, cs80 or so..
I would still listen to a river jp8 or obx if you come to it, does no harm. just so you know the difference that many are not aware of.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oberheim View Post
Unless.....

I buy an Xpander and an Moog One and get the best of both worlds.

Or buy the M12 and wait a year or two and get the M One after saving some more cash
This isn't a bad option. Personally, I love having all 12 voices for playing long release pads, but IRL (i.e., in actual music) I think 6 is enough. This thread has encouraged me to go play a friend's One a bit more to see what I'm missing
Old 4 weeks ago
  #80
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audiohub's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinw View Post
As someone nicely said: the Moog One sounds as good as you can program it
Yep.
Absolutely Moog ONE.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #81
Gear Maniac
Ok. So....

Let’s award points to the best advice on how to approach my wife with a reason to invest that she can’t say “no” to.

Go!!!
Old 4 weeks ago
  #82
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kwaping's Avatar
Limited production future classic?
Old 4 weeks ago
  #83
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pppch's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Ruff View Post
This isn't a bad option. Personally, I love having all 12 voices for playing long release pads, but IRL (i.e., in actual music) I think 6 is enough. This thread has encouraged me to go play a friend's One a bit more to see what I'm missing
what you miss, the speed of the modulation sources .. the weak point of the matrix / xpander ...the envelopes are definitely not suitable for percussive..is not much different with my mrs2 / marion
have read something from an update of the cpu, but no idea how current it is
Old 4 weeks ago
  #84
Gear Maniac
Does anyone know about a CPU upgrade for the M12?
Old 4 weeks ago
  #85
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pppch's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oberheim View Post
Does anyone know about a CPU upgrade for the M12?
no lol... here a member wrote something.. but better forget that.
accept that the envelopes are slow .. otherwise as I said take a modern synth .. think your wife's rolling pin is fast ..
now you can choose between a french tht synth .. or a smt synth mainly made in asia ..

please don't get it wrong .. the matrix / expander is not a bad synth .. sounds a bit thin ... and it is more suitable for spherical sounds and co .. no synth for everything

by the way, jupiter6 with europa ( magic cpu upgrade ) is a fine synth .. very flexible and diverse .. partly still affordable.
mind you have to buy it with europa, you won't get it afterwards.

SE omega / code is also something, is available with different filter cards
( Two voltage controlled discrete analog filters: 12 db (classic Oberheim® style) hard-wired into voice board; 24db (classic Moog® style) in docking slot 1; 2 additional filter docking slots––2 and 3, can host our classic Roland® 303, Arp® 2600, and Yamaha® CS-80 style all hardware filters; 12db filter modes: low pass, bandpass, high pass and band reject. Filters do not operate in series or parallel. Each voice can access all four filters. )

Quote:
Originally Posted by massimo View Post
Maybe use something else in addition if percussive sounds are needed? The Xpander (and M12) is such a wonderful synth, that using it for what it does best cannot humanly be called a limitation.
the xpander is already around the 3k of the 12 more .. and it doesn't have an undeclared budget.
we recently had a river for 3.5k .. nobody wanted it .. but that's a local thing ..
matrix 12 on ebay 9 to 10k .. wow .. they are crazy .. i saw the last one for 4k ..
Old 4 weeks ago
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pppch View Post
what you miss, the speed of the modulation sources .. the weak point of the matrix / xpander ...the envelopes are defiqnitely not suitable for percussive..is not much different with my mrs2 / marion
have read something from an update of the cpu, but no idea how current it is
Maybe use something else in addition if percussive sounds are needed? The Xpander (and M12) is such a wonderful synth, that using it for what it does best cannot humanly be called a limitation.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #87
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oberheim View Post
Ok. So....

Let’s award points to the best advice on how to approach my wife with a reason to invest that she can’t say “no” to.

Go!!!
Get her a vocal chain, anyone can sing. Train her ear by singing with a synth in key. My wife is on my latest track, with the Moog One. After we released a few weeks ago, she's been in an unusually good mood.

She's asking about the next track already, my reply of course is "we need more gear to finish it" .
Old 4 weeks ago
  #88
Gear Maniac
Another question for M12 owners here... apologies for constantly being curious!

So with the breadth of Multi-timbrality, does that mean you can have 12 Different mono-patches stacked on Top of each other, each one with a different filter type all running at the same time?

How does the M12 handle all of that going on concurrently? That’s a lot of filters!
Old 4 weeks ago
  #89
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pppch's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oberheim View Post
Another question for M12 owners here... apologies for constantly being curious!

So with the breadth of Multi-timbrality, does that mean you can have 12 Different mono-patches stacked on Top of each other, each one with a different filter type all running at the same time?

How does the M12 handle all of that going on concurrently? That’s a lot of filters!
yep 12 independent mono synths controllable via midi..split makes no sense .. and the matrix 12 really has 12 filters and 24 oscillators in it .. it is also called 12 voices poly.
but keep in mind that the matrix 12 has a really antique midi interface, ie. no CC and the amount of data from sysex hits the mark very quickly
Old 4 weeks ago
  #90
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apessino's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oberheim View Post
Another question for M12 owners here... apologies for constantly being curious!

So with the breadth of Multi-timbrality, does that mean you can have 12 Different mono-patches stacked on Top of each other, each one with a different filter type all running at the same time?

How does the M12 handle all of that going on concurrently? That’s a lot of filters!
A polyphonic synth needs at least the oscillators, filters and VCA per voice. If it doesn't and still allows multiple notes then it has some degree of paraphony, but not full on polyphony.

A Moog One 16 voice has 48 oscillators, 48 filters (2xSVF and 1xLadder) and 16 VCAs per voice, plus all the digitally controlled components (4 LFOs, countless mod slots, etc.).
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