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Best synth for bass currently being made
Old 17th February 2020
  #31
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by J_P_P View Post
What about a Sequential PRO2 or a PRO3 ? i loved some of the demos, but i am a little unsure if they are great bets for just "Bass" sounds or Warmth...
I wouldn’t recommend a PRO 2 for this. I have one here next to a Subsequent 37 and, while I love the PRO 2 for its depth and flexibility, it doesn’t hold a candle to the Moog for bass duties. In fact, the main reason I hold onto the Sub 37 is because it dominates everything else I’ve tried for bass.

Even the mighty Minimoog, which I had side by side with the 37 for a while, can’t duplicate the tight low end you get from the stable oscillators and sub osc on the 37. Obviously the Mini is in a different league for fat, fuzzy retro sounds (along with the Grandmother/Matriarch from what I can tell) but the sub 37 is like a bass laser beam that can rip your face off.

The PRO 3 should make a great bass synth with its VCO’s and ladder filter but it doesn’t have a sub osc (does it?) and the ladder filter only has a 24db slope. The sub 37’s multi-slope ladder filter is probably one (big) reason it sounds different from a Mini, but it’s also a secret weapon for dirty, aggressive bass tones with plenty of mids.
Old 17th February 2020
  #32
Gear Nut
 
Mr. Syc's Avatar
 

You liked your sh2. Why not 101?
I’d grab a old sh-101 and stick the tubbutech mod in it. Really awesome performance upgrades
Old 17th February 2020
  #33
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Analog View Post
I wouldn’t recommend a PRO 2 for this. I have one here next to a Subsequent 37 and, while I love the PRO 2 for its depth and flexibility, it doesn’t hold a candle to the Moog for bass duties. In fact, the main reason I hold onto the Sub 37 is because it dominates everything else I’ve tried for bass.

Even the mighty Minimoog, which I had side by side with the 37 for a while, can’t duplicate the tight low end you get from the stable oscillators and sub osc on the 37. Obviously the Mini is in a different league for fat, fuzzy retro sounds (along with the Grandmother/Matriarch from what I can tell) but the sub 37 is like a bass laser beam that can rip your face off.

The PRO 3 should make a great bass synth with its VCO’s and ladder filter but it doesn’t have a sub osc (does it?) and the ladder filter only has a 24db slope. The sub 37’s multi-slope ladder filter is probably one (big) reason it sounds different from a Mini, but it’s also a secret weapon for dirty, aggressive bass tones with plenty of mids.
Does the Sub 25 have the same Filter as the Sub37 ?
Old 17th February 2020
  #34
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by 6000 View Post
Neutron.
I've got a couple Neutrons and yes, they have bass galore.

To my ears they don't hold together as well as the Minitaur for really deep, low end bass though.
I'm talking about when using an 88 key controller and going down towards the low end of it.
The Neutron holds up well down to about C2 and the Minitaur still sounds solid and cohesive an octave lower.
Of course, you lose the higher end with the Minitaur, so there's a trade off.
Love those Neutrons though.
Old 17th February 2020
  #35
Lives for gear
 
becks bolero's Avatar
I have never ever needed to use presets with my Minitaur

it's so basic I can't imagine needing them, really?

but there is an app that gives you control over some other stuff. maybe I should check it out sometime

Mr Analog, thx for the Sub37 info. that sounds like a good option too
Old 17th February 2020
  #36
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by J_P_P View Post
Does the Sub 25 have the same Filter as the Sub37 ?
Can’t say for sure but it appears to be literally a cut down version of the Subsequent 37 with the same circuitry but fewer dedicated controls and obviously fewer keys. The manual lists multiple filter slopes (6/12/18/24db) under “hidden functions” so yeah, I’m guessing it’s the same filter.
Old 17th February 2020
  #37
Gear Addict
If you have a Minimoog, get a Poly D?
Problem solved...
Old 17th February 2020
  #38
Gear Maniac
 

OMG, I never listened to an SH-09 before. What a wonderful, primitive sounding beast!




I don’t think there’s anything currently made that can truly replace it. The MS-1 maybe? It’s a different, less aggressive Roland sound imo but of course there’s a family resemblance. Note priority is apparently the same as the SH-101 and can be lowest or last depending on the envelope mode. May or may not work for you.

I’d still recommend the Subsequent 37/25 out of everything that’s been mentioned. It’s a road-worthy instrument as new gear goes (extruded aluminum “shell” with chassis-mounted pots) and to the extent it deviates from the vintage Moog sound it leans toward Roland with more focus, less fat and the ability to overdrive the filter with a single oscillator. It won’t fool anyone into thinking it’s a vintage Roland, but it might get you into the same ballpark musically with a modern, flexible and reliable instrument.
Old 17th February 2020
  #39
Gear Guru
 
zerocrossing's Avatar
Oh, I forgot. SE-02. Perfect and amazing sound.
Old 17th February 2020
  #40
Gear Nut
 
6000's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by felis View Post
I've got a couple Neutrons and yes, they have bass galore.

To my ears they don't hold together as well as the Minitaur for really deep, low end bass though.
I'm talking about when using an 88 key controller and going down towards the low end of it.
The Neutron holds up well down to about C2 and the Minitaur still sounds solid and cohesive an octave lower.
Of course, you lose the higher end with the Minitaur, so there's a trade off.
Love those Neutrons though.
Interesting. In my experience it's the other way - since I work in film trailers, low bass is extremely important. Neutron and u-he Zebra2 are the only synths that don't need any compression or EQ and sound fantastic as is in the low end.
Old 17th February 2020
  #41
Lives for gear
 
Mastropiero's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by pppch View Post
every synth with sine oscillator. unfortunately, very few have analog ones.
these include minibrute minibrute2 jupiter 8 dreadbox medusa and the upcoming behringer 2600 .. a rare wave form
Any waveform can be turned into a sine wave if it’s filtered closely to the fundamental frequency. I usually create sine patches by setting the triangle waveform and then filtering out the higher harmonics on my Prophet-600.
Old 17th February 2020
  #42
Gear Addict
 

For a live show Minimoog/Model D doesn‘t work very good for bass. It sounds great but you have to make tiny tweaks to resonance for good results because of the way the filter works. With resonance all way down the bass sound isn‘t great. Since it has no presets this is obviously a problem outside the studio.
The Minitaur has another filter where the bass isn‘t affected by resonance that much and it has presets, so you can reproduce results.
Another issue is tuning. You don’t want a bass synth out of tune at a show and there is no way with the fully analog synths to have 100% stable tuning.
Another option would be the Bass Station II or any other modern synth with digital features, Moog, Sequential, etc.
Old 17th February 2020
  #43
Lives for gear
 

I saw a show with a behringer model D, big stage with lots of lights (ie temperature spikes) sounded great over the huge PA
Old 17th February 2020
  #44
Lives for gear
 
pppch's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mastropiero View Post
Any waveform can be turned into a sine wave if it’s filtered closely to the fundamental frequency. I usually create sine patches by setting the triangle waveform and then filtering out the higher harmonics on my Prophet-600.
is not quite the same ..

volca kick still works to a certain extent, only there is the filter missing
the new moog can be forgotten, the filter thins out much too soon .. generally a problem with the moog filter .. but especially pronounced with the new ones.
volca bass with the s700 filter is not bad .. 12db .. and relatively low loss

to the waveforms.. :

· Sine – The standard, rounded waveform. A sine wave oscillates with smooth, constant amplitude that tends to sound muted/calm compared to other waves.
· Square – A wave that alternates between two fixed values, holding at each value for until jumping to the other value. Square waves tend to have slightly more buzz, and sound harsher than a sine wave due to the addition of odd harmonics.
· Triangle – Triangle waves are similar to sine waves but with a linear path between each value as opposed to a sine wave’s logarithmic pattern. Triangle waves have an even more aggressive sound than square waves.
· Saw – The saw wave has the biggest buzz of them all. Saw waves tend to sound like a combination of square and triangle waves, as half of the wave follows a linear path (like a triangle wave) before jumping to the other value immediately (like a square wave).
Old 17th February 2020
  #45
Gear Head
Quote:
Originally Posted by zerocrossing View Post
If you have to have analog... I’d recommend a Bass Station 2. It’s DCO so no warm up, sounds great and is very versatile.
i had to sell mine and it is a pity. it is great value for the price, and sounds definitely good
Old 17th February 2020
  #46
Lives for gear
 
Musician's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by zerocrossing View Post
Frankly, I would never buy a synth that doesn’t have preset memory for live use.
Not even for studio use. Time is limited when having a fulltime job and life is too short.
Old 17th February 2020
  #47
Deleted 80b9b09
Guest
I'd definitely go for a synth with presets.

I own a Pro 2 and it has fantastic bass capabilities. Recently finished an EP and it supplied the bass on every single track of the four.

And I heard it played out live on Saturday in front of many, many people for the first time and it shook the venue. Sounds fantastic.

However it is slightly more polite than my Sub 37. Bass on the Moogs are excellent if a little too big. I often find myself EQing to get it to fit and losing a part of the overall magic.

The refined nature of the DSI stuff fits in any music IMO.

And lest we forget the SE-02. What an amazing synth for the money. Its sooo good.

Final shout goes to the BS2. That's a lot of synth for the money and covers pretty much the whole spectrum of Roland basses if that's your thang.
Old 17th February 2020
  #48
Lives for gear
 
Mastropiero's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by pppch View Post
· Sine – The standard, rounded waveform. A sine wave oscillates with smooth, constant amplitude that tends to sound muted/calm compared to other waves.
· Square – A wave that alternates between two fixed values, holding at each value for until jumping to the other value. Square waves tend to have slightly more buzz, and sound harsher than a sine wave due to the addition of odd harmonics.
· Triangle – Triangle waves are similar to sine waves but with a linear path between each value as opposed to a sine wave’s logarithmic pattern. Triangle waves have an even more aggressive sound than square waves.
· Saw – The saw wave has the biggest buzz of them all. Saw waves tend to sound like a combination of square and triangle waves, as half of the wave follows a linear path (like a triangle wave) before jumping to the other value immediately (like a square wave).
Thank you for the info. It is very valuable and will be very useful for the development of the VST instrument I’ve been working on the last two years. How could I have known that a triangle wave is ‘similar to a sine wave but with a linear path between each value’...
Old 17th February 2020
  #49
Lives for gear
 
pppch's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mastropiero View Post
Thank you for the info. It is very valuable and will be very useful for the development of the VST instrument I’ve been working on the last two years. How could I have known that a triangle wave is ‘similar to a sine wave but with a linear path between each value’...
stolen from here:

https://joeysturgistones.com/blogs/l...bass-synthesis
Old 17th February 2020
  #50
Gear Head
 
vanGhost's Avatar
 

....keyboard with truu synth bass...?

well, i hardly recommend to have a closer look on the digitone keys from elektron.....
born for gigging....has earthshakin' deep rumble bass to tight hardwire bazz, full on spot in hard tune or any detuning within the sound....and so much more to offer than just bass....
also fm drums, pads and whatsoever fm can do...which is pretty much everything u could think of...
don't be afraid of fm.....sweden took car of that....and made this synth truu fun, truu soundesign and cutting edge....
don't worry about too digital....u can always smooth out subtractive way with two very versatile multimode filters on top...

apart from all that...the keys version has a solid aftertouch full size keyboard with pitch and mod and quite some more knobs to twiddle, that u can all adress with one button to any other midi gear....
and it's internal arp is a beauty....so is the elektron sequencer...if did not experience this yet, well, it's gonna blow ur mind...promise....parameterlocking is beyond ur imagintion and this swedish stepsequencing concept alone is already an instrument of it's own....

check it out before u decide....u could really miss out on something here....u did'nt thought of nor considered yet....
Old 17th February 2020
  #51
Gear Head
Quote:
Originally Posted by becks bolero View Post
I have never ever needed to use presets with my Minitaur

it's so basic I can't imagine needing them, really?

but there is an app that gives you control over some other stuff. maybe I should check it out sometime

Mr Analog, thx for the Sub37 info. that sounds like a good option too
Yeah you are missing out on:

6 LFO shapes (including sample&hold)
Hard Sync
Send modulation only to osc2
...
Old 17th February 2020
  #52
Lives for gear
 
pppch's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by steun View Post
Yeah you are missing out on:

6 LFO shapes (including sample&hold)
Hard Sync
Send modulation only to osc2
...
wow 6 shapes .. the medusa has 5 LFO,s.. shapes .. don't know .. many

Waveforms are available for each LFO sine, rectangle, descending sawtooth, triangle and ascending sawtooth. The peculiarity here is that you can smoothly crossfade between these five forms of vibration and this crossfade process itself is also a modulation target, which can quickly lead to complex results if you modulate LFOs together.

it can also loop five envelopes, which can also be used as alternative LFOs.
five 5-stage DADSR that go into the audio range.

is a little bit more
Old 17th February 2020
  #53
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by 6000 View Post
Interesting. In my experience it's the other way - since I work in film trailers, low bass is extremely important. Neutron and u-he Zebra2 are the only synths that don't need any compression or EQ and sound fantastic as is in the low end.

I forgot to write YMMV.

I don't have the Minitaur anymore and I don't work in film trailers.
I'm just going by memory, and that was my experience with the two of them.

Like I said though, I think the Neutrons are great,
and I would have no reservations about recommending them for bass.
Old 17th February 2020
  #54
Gear Head
Quote:
Originally Posted by pppch View Post
wow 6 shapes .. the medusa has 5 LFO,s.. shapes .. don't know .. many

Waveforms are available for each LFO sine, rectangle, descending sawtooth, triangle and ascending sawtooth. The peculiarity here is that you can smoothly crossfade between these five forms of vibration and this crossfade process itself is also a modulation target, which can quickly lead to complex results if you modulate LFOs together.

it can also loop five envelopes, which can also be used as alternative LFOs.
five 5-stage DADSR that go into the audio range.

is a little bit more
I think you misunderstood my post.

I'm a Minitaur owner replying to the other Minitaur owner who in my understanding is not aware of the fact that he can access some under-the-hood features.

I don't mean to start a competition of what synth has the most features.

But I'm happy for you if you are happy with your Medusa.
Old 17th February 2020
  #55
Lives for gear
 
pppch's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by steun View Post
I think you misunderstood my post.

I'm a Minitaur owner replying to the other Minitaur owner who in my understanding is not aware of the fact that he can access some under-the-hood features.

I don't mean to start a competition of what synth has the most features.

But I'm happy for you if you are happy with your Medusa.
clear, is the single lfo worth mentioning?can also be read in the manual. the minitaur can do nothing .. except many great midibugs .. unfortunately ..is not that important either ..
if it should absolutely be a taurus .. i would build the synth with the upcoming Behringer system 55 modules, better quality and much more flexible.

i'm still convinced that a good bass synth should have all waveforms in the osc,s .. most synth are omitted.

Old 17th February 2020
  #56
Lives for gear
 

While it's nowhere near a "bass synth", I accidentally created a massive low sub-bass with my OB-6 yesterday that threatened to blow things up (combo of filter envelope all the way negative, then using a combo of positive xmod env on the filter plus adjusting the filter itself). Don't think I had much sub osc going. I'd have to imagine the P6 with the triangle sub osc and the HP filter could do it better, or at least more easily.

It's definitely easier to dial in bass with the SE-02, but those Sequential poly analog synths in Unison are no slouches.
Old 17th February 2020
  #57
Lives for gear
 
monomer's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Musician View Post
Time is limited when having a fulltime job and life is too short.
I dunno about you, but for me it's usually faster to make a bass sound on a simple mono than it is to browse through wades of bass presets and trying to find the right one. Much, much faster.
Old 17th February 2020
  #58
Deleted f25ebd2
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Analog View Post
OMG, I never listened to an SH-09 before. What a wonderful, primitive sounding beast!




I don’t think there’s anything currently made that can truly replace it. The MS-1 maybe? It’s a different, less aggressive Roland sound imo but of course there’s a family resemblance. Note priority is apparently the same as the SH-101 and can be lowest or last depending on the envelope mode. May or may not work for you.

I’d still recommend the Subsequent 37/25 out of everything that’s been mentioned. It’s a road-worthy instrument as new gear goes (extruded aluminum “shell” with chassis-mounted pots) and to the extent it deviates from the vintage Moog sound it leans toward Roland with more focus, less fat and the ability to overdrive the filter with a single oscillator. It won’t fool anyone into thinking it’s a vintage Roland, but it might get you into the same ballpark musically with a modern, flexible and reliable instrument.
Actually, listening to that demo, I’d say MFB Dominion 1 gets quite close. Also has sine oscillators available. Not sure it can do low note priority.
Old 18th February 2020
  #59
I want an SH-09 now heh.
Old 18th February 2020
  #60
Lives for gear
 
Moonwhistle's Avatar
 

Minitaur. I use it in my portable setup instead of SH2/9/101.
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