Originally Posted by LWG ➡️

Hello!

The CS-5 and 10 use the same basic chipset, but the supporting circuitry for the oscillator is not the same.
The outputs of the saw and pulse wave on the CS-5 have an odd phase relationship. Particularly when the saw is fully on and the square approaches three quarters in volume, the fundamental frequency begins to attenuate and the second harmonic becomes more prominent. Set just right, it almost sounds like two tone generators tuned an octave apart, but phase locked. (Or a one-oscillator machine with simultaneous octave footage outputs).* When this sweet spot is dialed in the bass isn't as heavy as on the Roland sh-101 or the Yammy CS-10 at the same mix proportions, but outside of this not a huge difference in bass. The odd interaction between the CS-5's two wave ouputs produces a some subtle tone coloration that the CS-10 or sh-101won't do.
You can distinctly hear this effect at the 1:45 mark:

https://youtu.be/XDvnNeCDDi8

p.s. iirc, CS-5 was released at the same time as the CS-15, CS-20M and CS-40M All four were one product group and I remember playing the 5 and 15 in a local music shop in late 78.

-L

Originally Posted by Rezisehtnys ➡️

I had one, meh...

Just kidding, congrats! I'll join you in trance nation soon enough with a Virus TI 61. ALL THE SUPERSAW AND HYPERSAW!!!

Originally Posted by Somebodyperson ➡️

Supersaw
Feedback oscillator
X-mod


The reasons I got it....in that order.

Originally Posted by LWG ➡️

Its a two-channel preset machine in the tradition of the Roland sh-2000, etc., that's mated to a CS-10 styled monosynth that's output from the second channel.
The preset section is more in the 70's mold, using resistor networks to do formant-shaping for the instrument presets. Probably more expressive than the CS-5,10,15, and 30, as it has pitch and mod wheels.

Several of Yamaha's SK series of combo machines (SK-50D, etc.) have a solo synth section. The solo synth in the SK series is also based on the CS-5; same architecture/chipset, but sounds more raw and bassy.

https://youtu.be/3DR8W5w2tAk

Cheers,

-L

Originally Posted by Somebodyperson ➡️

Also, I believe the 10 was never available to the US market....and maybe not even outside of Japan.

Originally Posted by Sir Ruff ➡️

Thanks, I know what the layout/architecture is. My comment was related to which type of filter circuitry is used, i.e., the black series or the M series.

Originally Posted by Lector ➡️

We can't make two VCOs out of one this way, but we have here the possibility of messing with harmonics and fundamentals enough to fool some ears. Maybe this is how the Moog SL8 Harmonic Multiplier worked, IDK, but it's a shame there is no variable PW on the CS5, just PWM. It could be interesting. Just a simple mod.

Originally Posted by LWG ➡️

Interesting info. I notice that on the CS-5, the saw core from the vco is fed to the mixer as a positive-going saw but on the CS-10, the saw core is sent through an inverter, then sent to the mixer as a rising ramp.
Another odd design feature of both machines is there is a fixed amount of keyboard CV wired to the vcf. It tracks at about 1/3. The 5,10, and 15 are like this, with no way of switching it off or increasing it to full.
Yes, direct control over the 5's pulse width, like the 10 would be cool.

-L

Originally Posted by LWG ➡️

The "black series" and M series use the same filter IC, as does the variable solo synth on the 15D.
The IG00156, an ota filter on a chip.
The "M-series" just added separate lfo functionality on the vco/f/a and rudimentary patch storage.
Yamaha used the same core chipset across their
CS product line, and including some of the SK series.
The differences were in how supporting/peripheral functions (I.e, waveshaping, envelopes, etc.) to those three blocks were implemented.

-L

Originally Posted by LWG ➡️

Another odd design feature of both machines is there is a fixed amount of keyboard CV wired to the vcf. It tracks at about 1/3. The 5,10, and 15 are like this, with no way of switching it off or increasing it to full.
-L

Originally Posted by Lector ➡️

There. I think it's self-explanatory

Originally Posted by Sir Ruff ➡️

Despite using the same chipset, the back and M synths have a different filter sound—Black is more polite; M is more aggressive. Which filter flavor the CS-15D has is what I am trying to determine.

Originally Posted by Lector ➡️

Counting left to right, top to bottom, shapes 7 and 8 have errors LOL. Can you spot them?

Originally Posted by LWG ➡️

Please elaborate.

Cheers

Originally Posted by Lector ➡️

Corrected

Originally Posted by LWG ➡️

In a blind listen, most couldn't tell the difference, but
the CS-5 probably sounds a little more direct because
it's signal path is shorter.
The CS-10 has a master volume control whereas the 5 does not. The CS--5 has the final master volume omitted (presumably to cut costs).
The 5 has only one transistor stage after the vca, but the 10 has two, with the final one being for the master volume.

Cheers,

-L