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New korg wavestate...
Old 27th February 2020
  #2071
Gear Head
 

I've been lurking in this thread since they announced this thing, love it. I still hope for a desktop or an expended version with more controls but right now I am very happy to have preordered the Wavestate as it is. GAK UK says they are imminent.

The way I look at it is there is plenty to get busy on with all the presets and getting to know how it operates. I'm assuming the presets were made by multiple sound designers? Even if so, they seemed not to have trouble with it and have made a lot of great sounds.

I think with muscle memory programming anxiety will be diminished.

A lot of people have said they don't care for the orchestral samples but I think they are great and are a factor in my decision to purchase, they always mix well with synth sounds in my experience. Add in the movement abilities of this synth and I think it's a winner.

Definitely hope we can load our own sample in the future, I have samples that aren't traditional instruments so they are not covered. I assume they will be selling samples in the future, I hope they don't disallow user samples because of this.

Lastly I don't think I've seen this here - but one of my favourite artists Airwave seems to be involved with the Wavestate
Old 27th February 2020
  #2072
Gear Guru
 
zerocrossing's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thudinthenight View Post
That's the conundrum with the Wavestate... it's designed for people who hate using software, but you'll still need software (which doesn't exist) to get the most out of it.

My impressions were that it has phenomenal real-time performance controls though, once you have made it past the tedious RSI-inducing performance/program/sequence architecting phase.

I'll probably give it another look once 3rd party libraries are available.
Yeah, I’m in the “don’t hate software” camp, so I’m having a hard time getting excited about this at all, but I get why someone would be into it. It sounds good and has a great features set. I’d love for them to do a plugin version that was also an editor, like the Roland Cloud System 8.
Old 27th February 2020
  #2073
Gear Guru
 
zerocrossing's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Phillips View Post
Just a note, though please consider that I'm a biased source: I use both Omnisphere and the wavestate. Each makes sounds that the other can't.
Oh, of course. This goes without saying, though you’re probably right to bring it up. I didn’t bring up Omnisphere... I don’t even think that Omnisphere has a very similar feature set. Someone else brought it up. I think Wusikstation is probably going to be the one that may come close to it, at least feature wise, but I’ve often had issues with that plugin and I’m not even sure I have it installed any more. Maybe it’s better these days, but when I was using it, I found the developer seemed to be hyper focused on creating new versions to collect more money, while current versions remained filled with bugs. It seemed promising though, and seemed to have wave sequencer.
Old 27th February 2020
  #2074
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
I think they struck a good balance with the interface, and they made it as user friendly as possible given how much power is there..
Quote:
Originally Posted by Musician View Post
Unfortunately they did not I think. Also Nick Batt showed it in his review: much button pressing and menu diving during editing.
No big scroll wheel is killing. Same problem on the new Rolands.
A tiny value knob is not that fun nor fast to use.
I've had my WS since Monday, and I have spent a few hours with it so far.

Overall, I still think the usability is pretty good considering. A couple more buttons for some of the common tasks that require Shift combos would have been helpful.

BUT

Here's the thing: One could never ever bother creating their own presets with this thing, and they could still use it for all of its goodness and obtain a unique, personal sound.

Simply mixing and matching various presets, starting from a Performance level, and then switching out sample lane presets, or timing lane presets, or pitch lane, etc., combined with all of the knob-y synthesis capabilities is MAGIC. I cannot really overstate that.

The library of wave sequence lane presets is DEEP, and the possibilities for cross-polination and tweaking are huge, fast, and fun.
Old 28th February 2020
  #2075
Gear Addict
 
JohnsHead's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbone1313 View Post
I've had my WS since Monday, and I have spent a few hours with it so far.

Overall, I still think the usability is pretty good considering. A couple more buttons for some of the common tasks that require Shift combos would have been helpful.

BUT

Here's the thing: One could never ever bother creating their own presets with this thing, and they could still use it for all of its goodness and obtain a unique, personal sound.

Simply mixing and matching various presets, starting from a Performance level, and then switching out sample lane presets, or timing lane presets, or pitch lane, etc., combined with all of the knob-y synthesis capabilities is MAGIC. I cannot really overstate that.

The library of wave sequence lane presets is DEEP, and the possibilities for cross-polination and tweaking are huge, fast, and fun.
Great post. As I imagined it. Seems like a bargain to me.
Old 28th February 2020
  #2076
Here for the gear
https://www.korg.com/us/support/down.../840/#software

librarian and upgrade V1. 03 are available for download
Old 28th February 2020
  #2077
Lives for gear
 
CarLofgren's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by SUMPROJECT View Post
https://www.korg.com/us/support/down.../840/#software

Editor librarian and upgrade V1. 03 are available for download
Librarian or editor?

/C
Old 28th February 2020
  #2078
Here for the gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by CarLofgren View Post
Librarian or editor?

/C
Sorry just librarian
Old 28th February 2020
  #2079
Gear Maniac
 

did the update to 1.03 and thats about the most awkward thing I've done on a Mac since 1982. 2018 MacBook Pro with Catalina. The Wavestate communicates over some sort of network connection? wouldn't work with a USB hub, had to get a USB A to C adapter and remove the hub. After a couple of restarts and hard freezes on the Wavestate (pulling the power to restart the keyboard) it started working and being recognized. Had to kill WiFi as well. The Wavestate does not show up in Audio Midi setup for me. Supposed to? I let the Korg driver have privileges in the Security system prefs..not my first go around with Catalina (which I don't care for at all). Editor seems to work well, not much to do with it so far. I would love an Editor as well as I'm missing some dedicated page buttons
Old 28th February 2020
  #2080
Quote:
Originally Posted by GearsLust View Post
... no editor yet. But does it have the prerequisites to create one?
i.e. the usual MIDI-SYSEX-commands to change the internals of the WS?
The wavestate does not use SysEx for sound editing, and does not implement any manufacturer-specific SysEx messages. (It does support several Universal System Exclusive messages, as detailed in the wavestate MIDI Implementation: device inquiry, master volume, master fine tuning, and master coarse tuning.) Note that MIDI CCs can also be used to modulate any of the more than 1,000 potential modulation targets per Program.

Instead of SysEx, the wavestate uses network communication over USB. This provides various advantages; for instance, the just-released Sound Librarian functions essentially as an external display for the wavestate, rather than being a standard offline SysEx program. In fact, both the Sound Librarian and the front-panel UI communicate with the synth engine using the same message protocols.

The Sound Librarian lets you:
• View the sound data stored on the wavestate, including Set Lists, Performances, Programs, Wave Sequences, Wave Sequence Lanes, and Scales
• Edit Set Lists
• Edit metadata for user sounds, including the Name, Category, and Collection (as shown on the wavestate’s display), as well as additional metadata including the Author and per-sound notes
• Import sounds from your computer to the wavestate, and export sounds from the wavestate to your computer
• Back up and restore all of the wavestate’s data
• Use Import, Export, Backup, and Restore to transfer sounds from one wavestate to another
Old 28th February 2020
  #2081
Here for the gear
 
EdenC's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Phillips View Post
The Sound Librarian lets you:
• View the sound data stored on the wavestate, including Set Lists, Performances, Programs, Wave Sequences, Wave Sequence Lanes, and Scales
• Edit Set Lists
• Edit metadata for user sounds, including the Name, Category, and Collection (as shown on the wavestate’s display), as well as additional metadata including the Author and per-sound notes
• Import sounds from your computer to the wavestate, and export sounds from the wavestate to your computer
• Back up and restore all of the wavestate’s data
• Use Import, Export, Backup, and Restore to transfer sounds from one wavestate to another
I was just wondering what the possibilities would be with the wavestate librarian would be, thanks for the info.

And I assume by "import sounds" you mean the various performances and layers?

Either way I got mine on order. Honestly great work with this synth
Old 28th February 2020
  #2082
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrgkeys View Post
did the update to 1.03 and thats about the most awkward thing I've done on a Mac since 1982. 2018 MacBook Pro with Catalina. The Wavestate communicates over some sort of network connection? wouldn't work with a USB hub, had to get a USB A to C adapter and remove the hub. After a couple of restarts and hard freezes on the Wavestate (pulling the power to restart the keyboard) it started working and being recognized. Had to kill WiFi as well. The Wavestate does not show up in Audio Midi setup for me. Supposed to? I let the Korg driver have privileges in the Security system prefs..not my first go around with Catalina (which I don't care for at all). Editor seems to work well, not much to do with it so far. I would love an Editor as well as I'm missing some dedicated page buttons
I'm sorry that you ran into difficulties, and I'm glad that it's working for you now.

Unfortunately, installation under Catalina does require some extra steps, as detailed in the manual, due to Apple's heightened security restrictions.
We're not aware of any freezes on updating. As described in the docs, the wavestate will restart as part of the update process, and the screen will go blank for a few seconds. I'm interested to hear more details about what you saw.
I generally use my wavestate with a USB hub, and it works well, including for the update process. What errors did you see?
My guess is that WiFi was a red herring. We have never had to disable WiFi for this purpose.
I'm using Mojave on both my MacBook Pro and Mac Pro (since Catalina has required so many updates to plug-ins and other software, and it's taking a while for everything to become compatible), but I've asked one of our developers to confirm that the wavestate appears in Audio/MIDI Setup under Catalina. It certainly should, since its MIDI functionality is class-compliant.
Old 28th February 2020
  #2083
Quote:
Originally Posted by EdenC View Post
I was just wondering what the possibilities would be with the wavestate librarian would be, thanks for the info.

And I assume by "import sounds" you mean the various performances and layers?
Yes - Set Lists, Performances, Programs, Wave Sequences, Wave Sequence Lanes, and Scales.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EdenC View Post
Either way I got mine on order. Honestly great work with this synth
Thank you!
Old 28th February 2020
  #2084
Quote:
Originally Posted by teknico View Post
For now, I would imagine.

The Wavestate software is derived from the Kronos one. The Kronos does have an extensive System Exclusive implementation and an editor exists, even though the MIDI Implementation documentation is not available from download from Korg's web site, and the Parameter Guide says to "ask your Korg distributor" (?).

It seems unlikely that Korg stripped out the existing System Exclusive implementation in the code, instead of updating it for the new Wavestate features.
I understand why one might think this. I've mentioned before that the wavestate is "deeply refactored" from the Kronos, by which I mean that most of it has been re-written from scratch.

From a user standpoint, some features - such as the sonic qualities of the sample playback oscillator, filters, and effects - are similar or identical, even though the code that makes them happen is very different.

Many fundamental aspects of the system, however, are completely different both in their functionality and the underlying code - for instance, data structures, storage, communication and UI methods, etc., not to mention obvious user-facing things like modulation, fine resolution and real-world units for parameter values, etc.
Old 28th February 2020
  #2085
Here for the gear
 

I haven’t seen a list of the scales included, or more importantly for me, whether scales are user editable. Is there any confirmation on what’s included, and whether microtonal scales can be created and saved?
Old 28th February 2020
  #2086
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Phillips View Post
I'm using Mojave on both my MacBook Pro and Mac Pro (since Catalina has required so many updates to plug-ins and other software, and it's taking a while for everything to become compatible), but I've asked one of our developers to confirm that the wavestate appears in Audio/MIDI Setup under Catalina. It certainly should, since its MIDI functionality is class-compliant.
I've confirmed, at least on our test system, that the wavestate appears properly in Audio/MIDI Setup on Catalina. mrgkeys - Please let me know if this continues to be a problem for you.
Old 28th February 2020
  #2087
Gear Maniac
 
Remote Vision's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Phillips View Post
I've confirmed, at least on our test system, that the wavestate appears properly in Audio/MIDI Setup on Catalina. mrgkeys - Please let me know if this continues to be a problem for you.
Wavestate shows up here as well. Catalina, v1.02 Wavestate firmware.
Old 28th February 2020
  #2088
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Phillips View Post
Many fundamental aspects of the system, however, are completely different both in their functionality and the underlying code - for instance, data structures, storage, communication and UI methods, etc., not to mention obvious user-facing things like modulation, fine resolution and real-world units for parameter values, etc.
I stand corrected, thank you for your reply.

However, you are still not confirming the implementation of System Exclusive commands in the Wavestate, even after you released a librarian program that should need them.

Horrible thought: you did not implement an alternative, proprietary, non-standard means of communication between the Wavestate and its librarian, did you?

Please say you didn't, and that I'm a fool for even contemplating such a thing.

EDIT (I hadn't read your other message above): you did do that, and I'm speechless. It seems you had your technical reasons, and I'm left with one question of which I fear the answer: are you going to publish those message protocols?

Last edited by teknico; 28th February 2020 at 10:53 PM.. Reason: Update
Old 28th February 2020
  #2089
Here for the gear
 

The possibility of loading at least two Set Lists per MIDI

For Live Gigs i'd like to see:
The possibility of loading at least two Set Lists per MIDI in response to Bank Select or Program Change 0-63 for Set List 1 and Program Change 64-128 for Set List 2.

Why? For example my 90 min. live gig workflow (without interruptions) is:
“Nord Stage 3” with 20+ Songs, each Song with 5 Presets (Intro, Bridge, Verse, Chorus, Solo) – also cca. 100 Performances. NS3 is connected wia MIDI with Wavestate. With MIDI Program Change i come to the end of "Set List 1" with 13 Songs. Then, i need a break (risky in the middle of live performance), to manually change the "Set List 2" to continue with the Song no. 14 - in the year 2020 unnecessarily disturbing …
Any hope, Dan?

Otherwise I like the Wavestate very much
Old 28th February 2020
  #2090
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Phillips View Post
I'm sorry that you ran into difficulties, and I'm glad that it's working for you now.

Unfortunately, installation under Catalina does require some extra steps, as detailed in the manual, due to Apple's heightened security restrictions.
We're not aware of any freezes on updating. As described in the docs, the wavestate will restart as part of the update process, and the screen will go blank for a few seconds. I'm interested to hear more details about what you saw.
I generally use my wavestate with a USB hub, and it works well, including for the update process. What errors did you see?
My guess is that WiFi was a red herring. We have never had to disable WiFi for this purpose.
I'm using Mojave on both my MacBook Pro and Mac Pro (since Catalina has required so many updates to plug-ins and other software, and it's taking a while for everything to become compatible), but I've asked one of our developers to confirm that the wavestate appears in Audio/MIDI Setup under Catalina. It certainly should, since its MIDI functionality is class-compliant.
Mine still does not show up under A/M setup. tried 2 cables so far. Could be its the adapter to USB C? But that worked for the update. Does that network interface thats setup need to be there for the USB midi to work? maybe installing the editor again with that software again? I'd like to know more about that protocol, could my firewall have anything to do with it? I've had intermittent freezes since I unboxed it. Hard freezes that require unplugging the power cable, the power button does not work for that. nothing so far after the update. I'll keep you posted on the Midi. maybe its just my run of cables.
Old 28th February 2020
  #2091
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Phillips View Post
Instead of SysEx, the wavestate uses network communication over USB. This provides various advantages; for instance, the just-released Sound Librarian functions essentially as an external display for the wavestate, rather than being a standard offline SysEx program. In fact, both the Sound Librarian and the front-panel UI communicate with the synth engine using the same message protocols.
Now that holds promise.

external displays
network communication
UI protocols

I can see future synths and mobile devices in my studio talking over such an open architecture.

Old 29th February 2020
  #2092
Lives for gear
 
ZT Scheer's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by branex View Post
For Live Gigs i'd like to see:
The possibility of loading at least two Set Lists per MIDI in response to Bank Select or Program Change 0-63 for Set List 1 and Program Change 64-128 for Set List 2.

Why? For example my 90 min. live gig workflow (without interruptions) is:
“Nord Stage 3” with 20+ Songs, each Song with 5 Presets (Intro, Bridge, Verse, Chorus, Solo) – also cca. 100 Performances. NS3 is connected wia MIDI with Wavestate. With MIDI Program Change i come to the end of "Set List 1" with 13 Songs. Then, i need a break (risky in the middle of live performance), to manually change the "Set List 2" to continue with the Song no. 14 - in the year 2020 unnecessarily disturbing …
Any hope, Dan?

Otherwise I like the Wavestate very much
Perhaps I am misunderstanding your use-case. What is the specific limitation you see on the Wavestate which needs correction?
Old 29th February 2020
  #2093
Gear Maniac
 
Remote Vision's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by R7P View Post
When you’ve got some time I’m curious what you think of the Wavestate for those glacial alien soundscapes.
After more time with the Wavestate, I can tell you unequivocally: yes.

And not just the glacial pads and soundscape stuff. Crazy good analog-sounding filter stuff, arps, pings, you name it, the WS delivers. You can even get wavetable style sounds - not the same thing, I realize, but a similar sound.

Then there's this whole other more academic side that you can into via the wave sequencing, and it's like advanced Berlin School in a box if you want to take it that way.

For ambient electronic or space music, highly recommended.
Old 29th February 2020
  #2094
Quote:
Originally Posted by branex View Post
For Live Gigs i'd like to see:
The possibility of loading at least two Set Lists per MIDI in response to Bank Select or Program Change 0-63 for Set List 1 and Program Change 64-128 for Set List 2.

Why? For example my 90 min. live gig workflow (without interruptions) is:
“Nord Stage 3” with 20+ Songs, each Song with 5 Presets (Intro, Bridge, Verse, Chorus, Solo) – also cca. 100 Performances. NS3 is connected wia MIDI with Wavestate. With MIDI Program Change i come to the end of "Set List 1" with 13 Songs. Then, i need a break (risky in the middle of live performance), to manually change the "Set List 2" to continue with the Song no. 14 - in the year 2020 unnecessarily disturbing …
Any hope, Dan?

Otherwise I like the Wavestate very much
I may have responded to a very similar question either here or in one of the Facebook groups. I understand the request, and have entered an issue in our database. However, I cannot make any guarantees that this will be implemented.

In the meantime, I wonder if the MIDI controller functions under the Nord's Extern Menu might be helpful. It looks like every Nord Program can send two different, individually defined Program Change messages to external devices, so you could map your Set List Slots as desired. Are you using a unique wavestate Performance for each of the five parts of every song?
Old 29th February 2020
  #2095
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Remote Vision View Post
After more time with the Wavestate, I can tell you unequivocally: yes.

And not just the glacial pads and soundscape stuff. Crazy good analog-sounding filter stuff, arps, pings, you name it, the WS delivers. You can even get wavetable style sounds - not the same thing, I realize, but a similar sound.

Then there's this whole other more academic side that you can into via the wave sequencing, and it's like advanced Berlin School in a box if you want to take it that way.

For ambient electronic or space music, highly recommended.
Hi Remote Vision. Do you have a favorite synth for ambient/space ambient/soundscapes/etc. and where would you rate the wavestate in your ranking of most favorate and/or appropriate synth for that/your style of music?
Pretty highly judging by your previous comment, so even more impatient for mine to arrive.
Old 29th February 2020
  #2096
Gear Maniac
 
Remote Vision's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mungbeans View Post
Hi Remote Vision. Do you have a favorite synth for ambient/space ambient/soundscapes/etc. and where would you rate the wavestate in your ranking of most favorate and/or appropriate synth for that/your style of music?
Pretty highly judging by your previous comment, so even more impatient for mine to arrive.
If we're talking modern, non-vintage, non-modular, I'd say the Blofeld has been on more pieces of music than any other synthesizer here over the past couple years. And that's simply because the Blofeld has got character, it can create a wide (very wide) palette of sounds, and it's very fast for me to design sound on it. It does lush, but in its own way, meaning, it doesn't sound like a Virus or anything else for that matter.

Historically, I'd say the ESQm would be in the top 5. As would the TG77. Also in that top 5 would be the original Wavestation, because that thing was lush and you simply could not make a bad ambient soundscape or pad on it.

The Wavestate is like the Wavestation, but supercharged. It just oozes space, but it goes places the Wavestation could never go - the filters on the Wavestate are the right filters for the job. The modulation capability is beyond extensive - just the fact that you can sync the vector envelope to tempo brings so many ideas to my mind.

I think for me, right now, this is the right synthesizer at the right time.
Old 29th February 2020
  #2097
Here for the gear
 

American music supply says it has the Wavestate in stock, and get it Friday. I hope my January preorder ships Monday.
Old 29th February 2020
  #2098
Gear Nut
 
Synthetica's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hmmmm View Post
American music supply says it has the Wavestate in stock, and get it Friday. I hope my January preorder ships Monday.

Same situation here pre-ordered from them early January, still waiting.......
Old 29th February 2020
  #2099
Lives for gear
 
Fleer's Avatar
Man. Can’t wait for the 61-keys version. But I will.
Old 29th February 2020
  #2100
Lives for gear
 
Fleer's Avatar
Oh yes I will.
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