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MIDI QUESTION- USB MIDI via USB hub or MIDI via DIN to MIDI interface?
Old 24th January 2020
  #31
Been kinda curious about the new Mio along with the ESI stuff.. Im still using an old Emagic AMT8, both standalone and with the computer. For everything MIDI, it all goes through DIN and the AMT8, but all of em that do have USB have that connected as well for firmware updates/library stuff/etc. I just have the USB ports disabled in Logic so everything sticks to 5 pin DIN there.
Old 24th January 2020
  #32
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Mastropiero's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acid Mitch View Post
I’m sending sysex over usb everyday without issue.
You must have a problem with your particular gear/set up.
Some synths tend to fail on sysex reception when the interface is USB based. I have 30+ synths and have experienced several issues with some models. Issues are more usual if the USB is cheap and even more usual if it’s connected to a USB hub. But it won’t happen with a PCI interface.
Old 24th January 2020
  #33
VST
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VST's Avatar
I avoid USB at all cost in my studio. It introduces noise and is generally a crappy way to send precise timing.
Old 25th January 2020
  #34
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Zappacat's Avatar
MOTU micro lite — 5x5 USB MIDI interface Opinions

https://motu.com/products/midi/lite

Anyone have one of these ? I realize it's lower end than what most of you are talking about on here but I think it will do what I need. Oddly the manual doesn't say anything about using it stand alone with PC attached. I'm assuming I could power it via USB power brick but don't know for sure. Anyone have one that is using it in stand alone mode ?

Thanks
Old 25th January 2020
  #35
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psionic11's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zappacat View Post
https://motu.com/products/midi/lite

Anyone have one of these ? I realize it's lower end than what most of you are talking about on here but I think it will do what I need. Oddly the manual doesn't say anything about using it stand alone with PC attached. I'm assuming I could power it via USB power brick but don't know for sure. Anyone have one that is using it in stand alone mode ?

Thanks
That's a good option, and in the direction you want. USB-powered is nice.

But for the same $$, you can also consider the iConnectiviy Mio4 or Midi4+.

The main advantages to these over the MOTU are the extra USB ports. The USB B ports let you connect an iPad *and* PC that you might get later down the road.

The USB A port will let you connect any of your USB synths to it. With that USB hub you linked earlier, you can use split / share that one USB A port with multiple USB synths. The Mio4 is USB-powered, but the MIDI4+ has a wall wart.

The MIDI4+ does have one advantage - it can also deliver audio over those USB B ports...
Old 25th January 2020
  #36
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Zappacat's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by psionic11 View Post
That's a good option, and in the direction you want. USB-powered is nice.

But for the same $$, you can also consider the iConnectiviy Mio4 or Midi4+.

The main advantages to these over the MOTU are the extra USB ports. The USB B ports let you connect an iPad *and* PC that you might get later down the road.

The USB A port will let you connect any of your USB synths to it. With that USB hub you linked earlier, you can use split / share that one USB A port with multiple USB synths. The Mio4 is USB-powered, but the MIDI4+ has a wall wart.

The MIDI4+ does have one advantage - it can also deliver audio over those USB B ports...
Thank you for the info. The MOTU has been out for a while and there are several of them on fleabay right now I should be able to score for approx $70. I'm just waiting for someone to confirm it will function stand alone being powered from USB power brick.

I think this Midihub device does everything I need but it's not available yet :
https://blokas.io/midihub/
https://youtu.be/ASruOUG2HIs
Old 25th January 2020
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zappacat View Post
Thank you for the info. The MOTU has been out for a while and there are several of them on fleabay right now I should be able to score for approx $70. I'm just waiting for someone to confirm it will function stand alone being powered from USB power brick.

I think this Midihub device does everything I need but it's not available yet :
https://blokas.io/midihub/
https://youtu.be/ASruOUG2HIs
Don't forget you can also just get USB power converters... don't need to rely on a USB power brick:

https://www.amazon.com/Charger-X-Uni...s%2C181&sr=8-5
Old 25th January 2020
  #38
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Zappacat's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quantum7 View Post
Only in America can someone have 4 synthesizers and consider themselves “poor”. LOL . Seriously though, spending some $100 for a used midi interface is going to make your life so much easier, and if you spent the money on the synths, you really should do yourself a favor and just spend a little bit more so they can all properly talk to one another and make your synth life much easier in the long run.
Thank you for this advice. I think you're right. Trying to get used MOTU off fleabay right now.
Old 25th January 2020
  #39
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NY___'s Avatar
I haven't tested this... but I'm very interested.. (also some have seen the famimimidi) - I'm very hesitant about sharing this because I feel that I won't be able to get one after I do, but it's cool - looks cool - hope it performs and hope if the owner needs help with mass productions we could help...

Quote:
Old 25th January 2020
  #40
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Acid Mitch's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mastropiero View Post
Some synths tend to fail on sysex reception when the interface is USB based. I have 30+ synths and have experienced several issues with some models. Issues are more usual if the USB is cheap and even more usual if it’s connected to a USB hub. But it won’t happen with a PCI interface.
If it was usb itself and not poor implimentation we'd have trouble with all usb midi interfaces.

PCI and parallel port interfaces (like older mottu stuff) can also have trouble with sysex.
Old 25th January 2020
  #41
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acid Mitch View Post
If it was usb itself and not poor implimentation we'd have trouble with all usb midi interfaces.

PCI and parallel port interfaces (like older mottu stuff) can also have trouble with sysex.
Its definitely not USB at all. Ive had my AMT8 since 2000 and its been rock solid every single time its been used the last 20 years and STILL is. MOTU's newer USB line does not play nice with SYSEX either, and its MOTU's fault just like it's always been, not the USB connection. MIDIQuest even warns you MOTUs suck for sysex use.
Old 25th January 2020
  #42
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Mastropiero's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acid Mitch View Post
If it was usb itself and not poor implimentation we'd have trouble with all usb midi interfaces.

PCI and parallel port interfaces (like older mottu stuff) can also have trouble with sysex.
Of course it is not USB at all. But USB interfaces tend to be poorly implemented when compared to PCI ones (or even when compared to the older RS232/Joystick port back in the 90s).
Old 10th March 2020
  #43
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Zappacat's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by psionic11 View Post
That's a good option, and in the direction you want. USB-powered is nice.

But for the same $$, you can also consider the iConnectiviy Mio4 or Midi4+.

The main advantages to these over the MOTU are the extra USB ports. The USB B ports let you connect an iPad *and* PC that you might get later down the road.

The USB A port will let you connect any of your USB synths to it. With that USB hub you linked earlier, you can use split / share that one USB A port with multiple USB synths. The Mio4 is USB-powered, but the MIDI4+ has a wall wart.

The MIDI4+ does have one advantage - it can also deliver audio over those USB B ports...
OK, so using one of the USB ports on Mio4 or MIDI4+ I can connect multiple synths via the USB hub I already have ? If anyone knows the max number of USB midi connections supported via the HUB can you please tell me what that number is ? I didn't realize I could do this with the now discontinued models. I only thought the ability of attaching the USB hub for more connections was available on the mioXM. I'm gonna get one of these one of these older models. Hopefully the config software isn't as horrible as everyone says it is.

Any thoughts on which one I should get ?

I know the MIDI4+ requires wall wart but I'll most likely need it anyway if I'm attaching USB hub to it and I understand the MIDI4+ supports audio over USB which could be REALLY convenient for future use. Anything Mio4 has that I'm overlooking ?

As a side note I stumbled across this post in another thread on here and I'm not quite sure how relevant it is to me as a keyboard player :

"For instance, I'm using pedal controllers with my digital piano. The MIDI4+ is not compatible with the pedal controllers (as listed on the manufacturers website), whereas the mio10 is."

Does that mean I wouldn't be able to use a dedicated sustain pedal or volume pedal when using the MIDI4+ ?

Thanks for all your help.
Old 11th March 2020
  #44
Gear Maniac
 
Zappacat's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by psionic11 View Post
That's a good option, and in the direction you want. USB-powered is nice.

But for the same $$, you can also consider the iConnectiviy Mio4 or Midi4+.

The main advantages to these over the MOTU are the extra USB ports. The USB B ports let you connect an iPad *and* PC that you might get later down the road.

The USB A port will let you connect any of your USB synths to it. With that USB hub you linked earlier, you can use split / share that one USB A port with multiple USB synths. The Mio4 is USB-powered, but the MIDI4+ has a wall wart.

The MIDI4+ does have one advantage - it can also deliver audio over those USB B ports...
This was awesome advice based on what I've read. i really appreciate you taking the time to point those things out. Thank you.

I'll follow up with results later. I just got a MIDI4+ off fleabay for approximately $120 shipped.
Looking forward to get away from THE MACHINE/computer.
Old 11th March 2020
  #45
So is the ESI M8U discontinued now?? I clicked on a link in this thread to check it out again and Thomann says its no more??
Old 11th March 2020
  #46
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chaocrator's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monotremata View Post
So is the ESI M8U discontinued now?? I clicked on a link in this thread to check it out again and Thomann says its no more??
it's replaced by M8U eX
Old 11th March 2020
  #47
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chaocrator's Avatar
what i use is multiport USB—>MIDI interface and DIN connections.
because i really really dislike ground loops, so avoid using USB MIDI connections with any sound-generating machines. (using USB = asking for a ground loop)
Old 11th March 2020
  #48
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I’m fascinated at the idea that USB MIDI would be used when DIN MIDI is available. They both have their drawbacks but surely the buffering in USB would be reason enough to avoid it when DIN is available? I abandoned USB for MIDI a couple of years ago and rarely use it now. That said : given the choice I use CV and Gate over DIN MIDI where possible.
Old 12th March 2020
  #49
Gear Addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zappacat View Post
OK, so using one of the USB ports on Mio4 or MIDI4+ I can connect multiple synths via the USB hub I already have ? If anyone knows the max number of USB midi connections supported via the HUB can you please tell me what that number is ? ...
IIRC - it's eight additional devices that you can route in to the ICM4+ via a supported hub. It has to be one of the hubs that iConnectivity says works. There are several. I think I posted up a confirmation a couple of years ago - that one of the generic brands they recommend works.

Just two cents on the ICM4+ and iConnectivity. I was a fan of the ICM4+ device, but that ended when the iConnectivity folks dropped support for the iConfig software, and went to Auracle. Auracle is fine for simple routings, as it trys to figure out stuff 'for you'. Once you installed it - it wiped out iConfig, and getting that back required firmware updates, digging up old software, and a lot of cursing. The iConnectivity team left many of us, without a functioning product, as there was (are) known bugs in iConfig. They freely admit (read their support forum), that Auracle doesn't work on complex setups... but haven't done anything about it. Abandonware. Frankly -- my setup wasnt 'that' complex. With the exception of the iOS integration, I have been able to do whatever MIDI mapping I needed through other means (Novation SL MKIII among them). I should probably put the iConnectMIDI4+ up on eBay or Reverb, before the rest of the musical world realizes what punk support they have. G'luck. Sounds like you got a deal, and it will probably work out fine for you..
Old 12th March 2020
  #50
Gear Guru
 
zerocrossing's Avatar
I use USB MIDI all the time. Works fine, no issues with timing. I once had a noise issue but adding a isolator fixed it right up. It runs right along side a MOTU MicroExpress that turns USB to DIN MIDI for my older synths that don’t have USB MIDI.
Old 13th March 2020
  #51
Gear Maniac
 
Zappacat's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by JDoo View Post
IIRC - it's eight additional devices that you can route in to the ICM4+ via a supported hub. It has to be one of the hubs that iConnectivity says works. There are several. I think I posted up a confirmation a couple of years ago - that one of the generic brands they recommend works.

Just two cents on the ICM4+ and iConnectivity. I was a fan of the ICM4+ device, but that ended when the iConnectivity folks dropped support for the iConfig software, and went to Auracle. Auracle is fine for simple routings, as it trys to figure out stuff 'for you'. Once you installed it - it wiped out iConfig, and getting that back required firmware updates, digging up old software, and a lot of cursing. The iConnectivity team left many of us, without a functioning product, as there was (are) known bugs in iConfig. They freely admit (read their support forum), that Auracle doesn't work on complex setups... but haven't done anything about it. Abandonware. Frankly -- my setup wasnt 'that' complex. With the exception of the iOS integration, I have been able to do whatever MIDI mapping I needed through other means (Novation SL MKIII among them). I should probably put the iConnectMIDI4+ up on eBay or Reverb, before the rest of the musical world realizes what punk support they have. G'luck. Sounds like you got a deal, and it will probably work out fine for you..
Thanks for the insight. I noticed on their site under Windows 10 driver downloads there are two choices :

- Unified USB driver for all current iConnectivity AUDIO and MIDI interfaces, I assume MIDI4+ is no longer considered a CURRENT device since it's been discontinued.

OR

- Previous Unified driver

Can you advise me on which of these to install on win10 64 bit ?

Which software should I use iConfig OR Auracle ? I would guess my setup is minimalistic compared to most users. 2 key controllers and 6 synth/drum machines.

I don't know what firmware version is on it yet so should I be concerned about the FW revison or leave it AS IS if it works ?

Thanks
Old 13th March 2020
  #52
Gear Addict
I wish I could help. I had everything installed under OSX (Mac) and never had to deal with the Windows drivers. If you can make things work with iConfig.. I would recommend that first. It's not supported, but was easy enough to work with, and provided a flexibility. There are still how-to vids on the iConnectivity site (I think) that describe how to use iConfig. I'd search those out. Like I said - once you dip your toes into the Auracle waters.. you're pretty much committed, and it is a PITA to go back to iConfig. Maybe Auracle will work for you? Dunno. I'd leave everything as-is, and try loading iConfig, and working through the videos.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zappacat View Post
Thanks for the insight. I noticed on their site under Windows 10 driver downloads there are two choices :

- Unified USB driver for all current iConnectivity AUDIO and MIDI interfaces, I assume MIDI4+ is no longer considered a CURRENT device since it's been discontinued.

OR

- Previous Unified driver

Can you advise me on which of these to install on win10 64 bit ?

Which software should I use iConfig OR Auracle ? I would guess my setup is minimalistic compared to most users. 2 key controllers and 6 synth/drum machines.

I don't know what firmware version is on it yet so should I be concerned about the FW revison or leave it AS IS if it works ?

Thanks
Old 13th March 2020
  #53
Gear Maniac
 
Zappacat's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by JDoo View Post
I wish I could help. I had everything installed under OSX (Mac) and never had to deal with the Windows drivers. If you can make things work with iConfig.. I would recommend that first. It's not supported, but was easy enough to work with, and provided a flexibility. There are still how-to vids on the iConnectivity site (I think) that describe how to use iConfig. I'd search those out. Like I said - once you dip your toes into the Auracle waters.. you're pretty much committed, and it is a PITA to go back to iConfig. Maybe Auracle will work for you? Dunno. I'd leave everything as-is, and try loading iConfig, and working through the videos.
Thanks for your help. After emailing tech support the only thing I've heard back so far is this :

"Hello There,
Thank you for contacting us. Your support request is currently being processed and we will get back to you shortly.
your iConnectivity team

* Due to the Holiday Season your request may take a longer than normal time*"

What holiday season are they celebrating right now in Canada ??

If anyone with real knowledge about about which drivers I should install on Windows 10 64 I'd really appreciate the advice.

UPDATE:

I just received a response from Iconnectivity tech support (18 hours later which is better response time than ANY company I've dealt with recently) and they stated the following :

The unified driver should be used for ALL iConnectivity interfaces (except ConnectAUDIO2/4, mio1X1, MIDI1).
I would use iConfig. It has more control over your device. I wouldn't bother with auracle (1).
Auracle will get a big update in the near future.

Thanks for all your help and I appreciate the fast response time from Iconnectivity.
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