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Roland TR-07 Concept
Old 1 week ago
  #31
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Stormchild's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by CasimirsBlake View Post
Stormchild, I'm not personally interested in adding a 707 of any sort to my collection, but I do really like your concept. If it became a real product, that would be fantastic. Maybe nudge Uli?
It was just a fun project to mock up what it might look like. I don't think it should become a real product (I wouldn't buy it), but Uli wouldn't be involved anyway. It's not analog, and this is designed to fit the Roland Boutique format.
Old 1 week ago
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ToyBox View Post
So I say again: if you're going to ROM, ROM to the max! Make ROM your strength! Make PCM great again! There's also a precendent for that
That's a really cool mod. No doubt that would be a much more interesting product, but Roland wouldn't consider that for even one second.

What I could imagine is a TR-7S, a compact and less expensive version of the TR-8S. It wouldn't look like the 707…it would be an Aira product that looks very much like the TR-8S. I feel like they've already made their play in that area with the new MC-101 and MC-707 though. But maybe there's a market for a less fancy version of the TR-8S that uses less desk/bag space. The question is: what features do you drop to avoid cannibalizing TR-8S sales? Remember you have to keep enough features for people to actually want one. Product design is not too hard in isolation but gets complicated when you have a family of related products to consider!
Old 1 week ago
  #33
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Originally Posted by Stormchild View Post
Here's my concept of a Boutique version of the TR-707. I don't know how many people would actually want this, and I doubt they'll make it, but it was a fun little project. Click for larger image.



Since it's sample-based, it doesn't need a lot of DSP power, so it made sense to me to include both the TR-707 and TR-727 sounds to make it a bit more compelling. I left out the old LCD display with the pattern grid, as it would either be small and hard to read, or take up too much space (and in any case is probably difficult to reproduce). Instead, I included sliders for both sets of sounds, with a separate total accent control for each set. The sliders are the same size as the ones in the SH-01A, but spaced further apart (about an extra 40%) to make them nicer to use.

An extra button in the Pattern section lets you directly select instruments from the 707 and 727 sound sets, which I think makes more sense than having to toggle between modes. The extra button also makes it possible to move the "Cycle/Guide" function to the Track side where it belongs (assuming it works the same way as the Cycle/Guide feature on the TR-909, which is only available in Track mode). There's also an extra button for Menu (needed for all the Boutiques) and Trigger Out — which, just like the TR-08 and TR-09, is its own "instrument", and has a front-panel jack.
That's a great job man. I'd be really interested to see how you'd render a CR-78 boutique

I love everything about the look and sound of this baby. A modern boutique version of CR-78 could be improved upon drastically and still keep a similar price tag as the others.


Last edited by TRSC; 1 week ago at 02:02 AM.. Reason: more
Old 1 week ago
  #34
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jbuonacc's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormchild View Post
... Looking through the 727 sounds again, it's probably true that most of them won't get used very often. I can't imagine people are still making music with whistles. ...
essential for anyone starting a Skinny Puppy cover band:



707/727 is all over this album.
Old 1 week ago
  #35
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Gerry_Tross's Avatar
I think that's a great mock up, I love my 707 and really want a 727...I'd buy it, but on one condition. The major use for my 707 is as main clock on my more elaborate acid set ups, it performs this role for one reason; it sends out midi and din when master. For me, it would be an insta-buy if they added the sync capabilities of the A-01. More importantly, if it could send out midi+din while not being master. Also 2 trigger outs would be awesome. I know...Probably couldn't fit it all on the boutique format. I've thought about this very idea on more than one occasion, so thanks for doing the work for me to satisfy that curiosity.
Old 1 week ago
  #36
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Stormchild's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by TRSC View Post
That's a great job man. I'd be really interested to see how you'd render a CR-78 boutique

I love everything about the look and sound of this baby. A modern boutique version of CR-78 could be improved upon drastically and still keep a similar price tag as the others.
Thanks. Totally agree…I love the look of the Compuphonic/CompuRhythm series.

For the CR-78, I suppose you'd want to incorporate the WS-1 programmer into the panel, but I'm wondering if there's a way to use the colored buttons for 808-style step sequencing to make it a little less tedious to use. Maybe it could have both, like the way the TB-03 sequencer lets you use either the original or step mode. Sounds like an interesting challenge.

The Jupiter-4 is also on my list of classics I want to see in Boutique form, so I will probably take a crack at that at some point. The JP-4 controls are pretty similar to the ProMars, so it would be cool if there's a ProMars/JP-4 switch like the 60/106 modes on the JU-06A. This is also the only Roland polysynth where no one can complain about the four voice limit of the Boutiques.
Old 1 week ago
  #37
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Stormchild's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerry_Tross View Post
I think that's a great mock up, I love my 707 and really want a 727...I'd buy it, but on one condition. The major use for my 707 is as main clock on my more elaborate acid set ups, it performs this role for one reason; it sends out midi and din when master. For me, it would be an insta-buy if they added the sync capabilities of the A-01. More importantly, if it could send out midi+din while not being master. Also 2 trigger outs would be awesome. I know...Probably couldn't fit it all on the boutique format. I've thought about this very idea on more than one occasion, so thanks for doing the work for me to satisfy that curiosity.
This all seems doable to me.

As far as I know, all the Boutiques are capable of acting as the master MIDI clock. Is that what you mean by sync? Just checked all of mine (SE-02, SH-01A, TB-03, TR-08, TR-09); they all have the option to send MIDI clock over USB or DIN (but not both at the same time). The Boutiques all send MIDI as well, for the sequencer or arpeggiator plus any controls you tweak on the fly.

I don't see any reason why the TR-07 can't have two trigger outputs. We can definitely fit another trigger out jack on the front (the SH-01A has three).
Old 1 week ago
  #38
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Stormchild's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbuonacc View Post
essential for anyone starting a Skinny Puppy cover band:

707/727 is all over this album.
That track is still so badass. They're from Vancouver! I lived there for 10 years and still miss it. Their former label (Nettwerk) was a few blocks away from my place.
Old 1 week ago
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormchild View Post
Custom samples don't fit the concept of the Boutiques. The TR-07 is meant to be a TR-707. You can improve things like adding compression to the kick and snare, adding a dedicated trigger track, making the pattern editing work in real-time like the TR-09, etc. Adding your own samples is a step too far, and I guarantee Roland would never do it, because then it competes directly with the TR-8S. There's also no way to manage custom sounds without a dot matrix display like the TR-8S. [...]
I wouldn't be so sure.

They already have the technology within the TR-8S or MCs (or SP even). For them it would be an opportunity to right an historical wrong: limited ROM size was a wall they had to deal with back then, not something they desired. They've also shown awareness for common mods, with the TB-3 and TR-8/S ACB models featuring some mod inspired options. They're willing to take some pretty significant creative liberties, poly 101 is a good one. It would be an opportunity for them to cover not just the 707 but all of their later digital TRs at once (even if they're not as popular).

While the Boutiques are faithful to some degree, they also have idealized aspects to them, and I can't think of a better ideal for this kind of drum machine than all the vintage lo-fi samples you can eat.

(Arguably Roland's own ideal would be SuperNATURAL or lifelike fully modeled drum kits rather just dead samples. Maybe they still have the original drums they sampled and could do a model of that, and then let you switch between lo-fi sample or real model mode, that would be peculiar)

I don't think the Boutiques compete with their AIRA counterparts btw: even if they offer the same/similar sounds, they offer very different experiences and cover different uses. The Boutiques are nostalgic and more casual, fitting any time or place, AIRA are resolutely modern and focused on studio/performance work. A Boutique could never replace a TR-8/S main feature: its workflow and interface for example. With digital instruments the sound is of lesser significance.

Lastly, you don't strictly need a screen to manage samples (SP 404 for example), a proper screen just makes things easier to handle.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormchild View Post
Looking through the 727 sounds again, it's probably true that most of them won't get used very often. I can't imagine people are still making music with whistles. You could potentially make the 707/727 sounds switchable, but that presents a lot of problems too (for example, no one would ever use the bongo because you'd have to give up the bass drum for it).
A related thing to think about is that, on the originals, the instruments have a fixed place in the mix/frequency spectrum, since you can't edit them in any way, volume aside, therefore some are likely fighting for the same spots, I'll have to check. That is something a Boutique version would have to fix.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormchild View Post
I'm not gonna spend any more time on this concept, since it almost certainly won't become a real product anyway.
K, guess I'll stop blabbering about it too. Bittersweet side of fantasy
Old 1 week ago
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormchild View Post
That's a really cool mod. No doubt that would be a much more interesting product, but Roland wouldn't consider that for even one second.

What I could imagine is a TR-7S, a compact and less expensive version of the TR-8S. It wouldn't look like the 707…it would be an Aira product that looks very much like the TR-8S. I feel like they've already made their play in that area with the new MC-101 and MC-707 though. But maybe there's a market for a less fancy version of the TR-8S that uses less desk/bag space. The question is: what features do you drop to avoid cannibalizing TR-8S sales? Remember you have to keep enough features for people to actually want one. Product design is not too hard in isolation but gets complicated when you have a family of related products to consider!
Yeah, as far as AIRA goes I think the MC-101 took that spot, despite being a groovebox, and it's hard to fit another drum machine between the TR-8 and TR-8S ( or to shrink the TR-8/S concept without losing its primary strength: the playable mixer interface). The only hope here maybe would be a new SP with their current sequencer, but they aren't going to kill the 404 themselves, and that thing is a classic with a cult following so it's not going anywhere soon.

However, as I've said earlier, I see the Boutiques as distinct enough to have their own digital drum machine. It's a bit like volcas versus electribes: one side has more practical power, the other is sexy and collectible...

Anyway, if not Roland, someone else is going to make that classic-styled, cheap, portable, load your own samples, drum machine. We have options that can load samples but none nail that specific vibe.
Old 1 week ago
  #41
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Originally Posted by Stormchild View Post
Thanks. Totally agree…I love the look of the Compuphonic/CompuRhythm series.

For the CR-78, I suppose you'd want to incorporate the WS-1 programmer into the panel, but I'm wondering if there's a way to use the colored buttons for 808-style step sequencing to make it a little less tedious to use. Maybe it could have both, like the way the TB-03 sequencer lets you use either the original or step mode. Sounds like an interesting challenge.

The Jupiter-4 is also on my list of classics I want to see in Boutique form, so I will probably take a crack at that at some point. The JP-4 controls are pretty similar to the ProMars, so it would be cool if there's a ProMars/JP-4 switch like the 60/106 modes on the JU-06A. This is also the only Roland polysynth where no one can complain about the four voice limit of the Boutiques.
Well, which ever one you choose to do next, I know it's gonna be cool. Good luck with it man.
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