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Behringer Model D, not sure if faulty
Old 2 weeks ago
  #1
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Behringer Model D, not sure if faulty

Hi,

I'm looking to find out if my Model D is faulty, or if it is just typical behavior of such synths. It's the only analogue synth I have used so I don't have much to compare against.

Basically with all knobs turned to the left, except the master volume, and all the switches turned off (except the power) I get the following sound:



I send the Midi out from my DAW to the Midi in of the Model D, and then take the high output from the synth back into the DAW to record. The Midi note is C2 and is a repeated hit of that note.

Do you also get such a sound with all oscillators turned off and all filter knobs turned off?

Thanks!
Old 2 weeks ago
  #2
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Moog Model D or Behringer Model D?
Old 2 weeks ago
  #3
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My mistake, of course I should have written. Behringer Model D, I wish I could afford a real one!!!
Old 2 weeks ago
  #4
Lives for gear
Are the clicks corresponding to a note being sent? Could be the envelope click if you have attack, decay and sustain at minimum.

If you turn attack and decay on the amp envelope (or "loudness contour" in model D terms) up to say 12 o'clock, do you still get a click or a noise?
Old 2 weeks ago
  #5
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Yes, the clicks correspond to the midi note being sent. For every click, that is a C2 note being sent via Midi from Reaper to the Midi in of the Model D.

If I turn up the attack and decay to 12 o clock in the loudness contour section the sound disappears. (If I bring the attack down to say 11, it's audible again)

If I leave the attack at 0, but turn up the decay the sound changes a little but is still there.

Here is an image of the settings on the synth:

https://postimg.cc/4KKLxmJZ

Thanks a lot!
Old 2 weeks ago
  #6
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After a bit more playing around, I have noticed that if the following things are turned on:

https://postimg.cc/627CZmqG

Mod Depth at 10 in controllers.
Filter Modulation switch turned on, cut of at 12 o clock.

Loud Decay switch turned on in loudness contour section. Decay set at 600 msec.

I get this sound:

https://soundcloud.com/user-182738372/clicks2

Additionally, if I then turn up the filter emphasis to very high, 8-10, it starts to make a glitchy / feedback sound.

For a bit of background info, this unit is actually a replacement for 3 other Behringer models that were serviced and eventually replaced / RMA by Behringer - they had other issues, but I don't recall them doing this. (I want to find out if I am super unlucky to have another faulty unit or, if this is what an analogue synth should actually do)

Thanks.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #7
Lives for gear
From what I've read it's pretty normal for an analog synth, especially one with old school circuits like the model D, to do this.

You're just hearing the envelope attack and decay as it affects the VCA, leaking through to the output.

It should be less apparent or inaudible once you let some signal through the mixer and filter.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #8
Lives for gear
On your last example, does the buzzing change as you change the LFO rate, or the Osc 3 rate, depending on what your modulation settings are?

Could just be bleed, or noise from the filter as it's being modulated with no signal going through. I don't think it will be an issue as long as you can't hear it when you mix oscillators, noise, etc. in. It's a typical characteristic of analog circuits, there will be noise and artifacts. As long as they aren't extreme or affect the sound of the synth when creating normal patches, it's not a problem.

When you crank filter emphasis (resonance) high, the filter will self oscillate, making a tone of its own, which can lead to interesting sounds when modulated (the glitchy/feedback you mention). You can make some nice kick drums and synth tom sounds with this.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #9
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JimiPeg's Avatar
This is normal, both my Boog and Moog reissue do this
Old 2 weeks ago
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kpatz View Post
On your last example, does the buzzing change as you change the LFO rate, or the Osc 3 rate, depending on what your modulation settings are?
The LFO rate doesn't affect it, but the OSC 3 changes the pitch of the sound.

Generally when turning on the oscillators and using loud sounds it's less audible, but as the Sine waveform is considerably quieter than the others the clicking still comes through when using that one.

JimiPeg - Thanks for letting me know!

I must say it is a bit frustrating when trying to get a softer sound and that click is still audible, but maybe I am just crazy
Old 2 weeks ago
  #11
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Welcome to the world of analog synths
I had the same moments of panic when I bought my D Reissue: it was not my first analog machine but certainly the most "old school" one, the others had lots of digital control and were much cleaner and polished.

So I did this huge investment, and when I got it I found all kinds of clicks, quirks and weirdness: I was going crazy agonizing whether to return it or not... luckily I chose to keep it, best decision of my life!
Same thing when I got my Odyssey which is much more complex than the D and MUCH more quirky: I had serious doubts I got a broken unit, but now it's probably my absolute favourite synth!

A 100% analog synth behaves like that because no part of the signal path is converted to digital information, everything is live electrical currents going through capacitors, resistors etc, which means that any tiny change in voltage will produce an audible result: it can be a click, a pop, a slight change in tuning (hint: always keep a tuner in line!)...
Also, it's quite normal to have some "bleed" between the different parts of the synth, meaning that different parts may not be completely isolated from one another: it may be some oscillator bleed into the VCA (resulting in some background sound being perceptible even when no note is being played), some LFO or modulation bleed into the oscillators (so the oscillators are slightly modulated even with all modulations set to zero), and so on.
Again, this is not ideal but it's quite normal, and unless it's abnormally strong it doesn't really influence the playability of the synth.

And that's exactly why most people prefer analogs to digital synths: all these imperfections give life to the sound and make it much more natural and musical to our ears.
The real world is not perfect, and consequently our sensory system is not used to hear perfect sounds and tends to dislike them as too "unnatural". It's simply the way analog instruments work... nobody thinks that their guitar is defective because it makes picking, sliding and fretting noises, or that their saxophone is broken if it makes puffing, blowing and hissing sounds!

Just think that the most basic synth sound is obtained by intentionally putting the oscillators out of tune against each other! It goes against logic and musical theory, and yet it just sounds SO much better than perfectly tuned oscillators.
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