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-   -   TD-3 behringer 303 clone (https://www.gearslutz.com/board/electronic-music-instruments-and-electronic-music-production/1286361-td-3-behringer-303-clone.html)

goom 17th October 2019 12:37 AM

Would it be wild if it was a 303 606 mashup? :amaze:

Schooner 17th October 2019 01:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by goom (Post 14269382)
Would it be wild if it was a 303 606 mashup? :amaze:

I made mention of the blurry mystery box again in another thread not too long ago, and I also said how wild it would be if it was a 303/606 combo as well. Some others didn't think very highly of the idea, but I still think it would be a fecking HOOT!

jazzcabbage 17th October 2019 04:16 AM

I hadn’t thought of that. Man a real deal 303/606 analog groove box with plenty of patch points would be awesome!

ibtl 17th October 2019 05:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jazzcabbage (Post 14269624)
I hadn’t thought of that. Man a real deal 303/606 analog groove box with plenty of patch points would be awesome!

with 2 separate sequencers ? confoosed

Alekto 17th October 2019 05:35 AM

I would buy the living sh*t out of that.

Sebastian N 17th October 2019 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whatever17 (Post 14269693)
with 2 separate sequencers ? confoosed

You can easily make one sequencer cover both duties. 16 buttons on the bottom for the drums and add a row of offset buttons above to act as the black keys for a 1 octave keyboard for the synth. Rest of the bottom row becomes glide, accent etc buttons when in synth mode. There's ways to do this.

But I'm sure if they were interested in doing this, than it would be 2 different machines. Maybe crave style on the lower end of the budget. And why not. Acid guys will buy it just to expand their collection of 303 style boxes. Purists will say the accent doesn't behave correctly. World will keep turning

Schooner 17th October 2019 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sebastian N (Post 14270033)
You can easily make one sequencer cover both duties. 16 buttons on the bottom for the drums and add a row of offset buttons above to act as the black keys for a 1 octave keyboard for the synth. Rest of the bottom row becomes glide, accent etc buttons when in synth mode. There's ways to do this.

But I'm sure if they were interested in doing this, than it would be 2 different machines. Maybe crave style on the lower end of the budget. And why not. Acid guys will buy it just to expand their collection of 303 style boxes. Purists will say the accent doesn't behave correctly. World will keep turning

I’m saying this more for a laugh than anything else, but the behringer trademark thread does mention a RD-6 among others. I’m not super invested in anything past a point but the speculating and guessing is kind of fun. Makes for interesting convo and that’s the point of these threads, innit?

ArtFluids 17th October 2019 01:58 PM

There was also an RD-999 mentioned at one point. It was in addition to the original RD-909 and RD-808 names.

Schooner 17th October 2019 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArtFluids (Post 14270212)
There was also an RD-999 mentioned at one point. It was in addition to the original RD-909 and RD-808 names.

Yeah, that was dropped in the original leak info. I’m hoping that turns out to be some kind of hybrid drum synth/machine. Maybe a combo of analog and digital drum voicing. Throw in some sampling and bob’s your all singing, all dancing uncle!

ibtl 17th October 2019 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sebastian N (Post 14270033)
You can easily make one sequencer cover both duties. 16 buttons on the bottom for the drums and add a row of offset buttons above to act as the black keys for a 1 octave keyboard for the synth. Rest of the bottom row becomes glide, accent etc buttons when in synth mode. There's ways to do this.

But I'm sure if they were interested in doing this, than it would be 2 different machines. Maybe crave style on the lower end of the budget. And why not. Acid guys will buy it just to expand their collection of 303 style boxes. Purists will say the accent doesn't behave correctly. World will keep turning

yeah but you wouldn't want one rhythm pattern to be tied to a corresponding bass pattern. that would be boring, and just like many other grooveboxes.
how would you literally combine two separate machines into one? it could be done, of course.

Sebastian N 17th October 2019 04:07 PM

If Akai can do it, anyone can :lol:

goom 17th October 2019 05:14 PM

If they did a 909, would they have to license the samples?

Schooner 17th October 2019 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by goom (Post 14270548)
If they did a 909, would they have to license the samples?

Not sure. The RD-9 should be the next drum box coming out.

grasspike 17th October 2019 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by goom (Post 14270548)
If they did a 909, would they have to license the samples?

Why would Roland care? They put out products with samples from other peoples machines and synths.

My Integra 7 is a current Roland product. Came with tons of samples from Moog, Arp, Yamaha, Sequential, and many many more.

Sebastian N 17th October 2019 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grasspike (Post 14270683)
Why would Roland care? They put out products with samples from other peoples machines and synths.

My Integra 7 is a current Roland product. Came with tons of samples from Moog, Arp, Yamaha, Sequential, and many many more.

Sampling a synth is not the same as using someone else's samples. Wasn't there a case where someone used the waveforms from a synth and turned out they were copyright protected as they were actual samples in the first place

space skeleton 17th October 2019 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whatever17 (Post 14270403)
yeah but you wouldn't want one rhythm pattern to be tied to a corresponding bass pattern. that would be boring, and just like many other grooveboxes.
how would you literally combine two separate machines into one? it could be done, of course.

The UX of this would be kind of wonky versus doing what most other multitrack sequencers do (eg Elektron/Roland off the top of my head).

Just give it enough memory and let you adjust the track length per sequence, and give us enough pattern memory/projects.

re5etuk 17th October 2019 08:22 PM

If they do a 303 I wonder what key function that everyone expects to be included will be badly implemented or just forgotten about.

And how much will they mess with the sequencer to royally [email protected]£k it up.

It’ll probably need a patch just to sync with an rd8

A potential purchase for me but I won’t be pre ordering till reviews and patches have hit.

Monotremata 18th October 2019 01:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sebastian N (Post 14270727)
Sampling a synth is not the same as using someone else's samples. Wasn't there a case where someone used the waveforms from a synth and turned out they were copyright protected as they were actual samples in the first place

Roland got busted for lifting breakbeats and putting them on the JV cards.. Don't remember the exact details but its the reason you often cant find a certain one or two of them.

ArtFluids 18th October 2019 03:28 AM

Also the JD-Xi has Fairlight and Linndrum sounds built in

HaveItAll 18th October 2019 08:27 AM

All they have to do is record hats which are incredibly similar to 909 hats, and its not illegal.

djwaxxy 18th October 2019 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monotremata (Post 14271355)
Roland got busted for liftingz breakbeats and putting them on the JV cards.. Don't remember the exact details but its the reason you often cant find a certain one or two of them.

Yep the mdc-1 and dance xp card were the same. Roland got into trouble for using samples they didn't have the full licence for. I have both and alot of the sounds were used on some big tracks back in the rave days.
They do sound dated now but there's still some hidden gems and the 909 kits still sound great.
I was lucky I bought mine from turnkey very cheap when Roland did a recall but once in awhile they still pop up on ebay.

goom 18th October 2019 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HaveItAll (Post 14271660)
All they have to do is record hats which are incredibly similar to 909 hats, and its not illegal.

Unleashing a million bitching cork-sniffers … me included.

Schooner 18th October 2019 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kslight (Post 13748218)
It’s too bad not an FR777 clone.

303 though I feel like reasonably priced/close enough to 303 options have existed for some time...while I have no doubt Behringer will sell em, I also think that a lot of people that have to have that sound probably already bought one or more clones along the way.

If future retro would re-release the 777 at $777 like the original, It would probably be a hit.

grasspike 18th October 2019 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sebastian N (Post 14270727)
Sampling a synth is not the same as using someone else's samples. Wasn't there a case where someone used the waveforms from a synth and turned out they were copyright protected as they were actual samples in the first place

It's exactly the same. If the samples on a Drum Machine are themselves copyrighted than any music made with them would be a derivative of said copyrighted work.

So you as a musician could never record tracks using a drum machine as that would create a copyright and licensing issue.

But Roland has sampled drum machine sounds from other companies machines on many products in any case.

Sebastian N 18th October 2019 11:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grasspike (Post 14272726)
It's exactly the same. If the samples on a Drum Machine are themselves copyrighted than any music made with them would be a derivative of said copyrighted work.

So you as a musician could never record tracks using a drum machine as that would create a copyright and licensing issue.

But Roland has sampled drum machine sounds from other companies machines on many products in any case.


Not really. It depends on the license of said samples. Same thing as using sample packs. You can use them in your compositions and make millions. But as soon as you try to sell the sample as is, in this case let's say a sampled waveform or wavetable etc it's infringement. Not sure how it works with drum machines as the roland stuff has been sampled to death. But there was this discussion about sampled waveforms from synths. Like using the stuff from the D50. You can't just lift those samples and sell them, even if within another synth. It all depends on the scope if product as well. Indie developer making open source synths? I'm sure it's nit really an issue as in they won't bother going after you. But if you're another big manufacturer than it's a different game.

Again, someone with more legal knowledge might clear things up a bit more

Treebase DMX 19th October 2019 12:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whatever17 (Post 14270403)
yeah but you wouldn't want one rhythm pattern to be tied to a corresponding bass pattern. that would be boring, and just like many other grooveboxes.

That is EXACTLY what you want. Bass and drums go together and synthesizing & sequencing them from one device is the optimal workflow and ensures tight timing...

An analog groovebox with digital control is what Behinger should be aiming for- but they might thave to hire some better coders/software engineers for this, judging by recent offerings. Of course this would be garbage if they tried to make it for a €300 target price.

They really should listen to me! cooge

ibtl 19th October 2019 07:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Treebase DMX (Post 14273054)
That is EXACTLY what you want. Bass and drums go together and synthesizing & sequencing them from one device is the optimal workflow and ensures tight timing...

An analog groovebox with digital control is what Behinger should be aiming for- but they might thave to hire some better coders/software engineers for this, judging by recent offerings. Of course this would be garbage if they tried to make it for a €300 target price.

They really should listen to me! cooge

well the thing is, if you're using the originals, you are able to mix'n'match patterns from each device on the fly. lets you come up with unexpected 'happy accidents'.
would not be hard to have a 'lock' or link function, to associate 2 patterns on both sequencers, and a simple a/b toggle button to switch between the two modes mapped out on the input interface. that would do it. they are not very complicated sequencers to copy. (although few have been able to emulate the tb303 sequencer correctly, it's true.)

Treebase DMX 19th October 2019 03:11 PM

Yeah the important thing is to have bass & drum tracks contained in the pattern - or to be able to link bass and drum patterns so that when you do a pattern change, they change together. Also when you are writing the pattern you should be able to access both drum and bass tracks at the same time for quick editing. This needs more than one lane of step buttons if using the x0x paradigm- kinda like the Polyend sequencer.

Bolyend, lol. I would buy a Polyend clone minus the wood and the absurd price tag.

ibtl 19th October 2019 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Treebase DMX (Post 14273874)
so that when you do a pattern change, they change together. Also when you are writing the pattern you should be able to access both drum and bass tracks at the same time for quick editing. This needs more than one lane of step buttons if using the x0x paradigm- kinda like the Polyend sequencer.

yeah but then you 've got something like a groovebox - who said Rythm Wolf? i was thinking more like EMX1 - amazing stuff seen on YT by one guy. i'd rush to get one but you can't have every piece of gear and master it, especially grooveboxes.

the old thing was: link/sync up a bunch of boxes, write stuff into each, and then jam the patterns, and see what comes out. maybe not quite as Roland etc. intended, but it's fun, and kicks up lots of stuff you wouldn't come up with intentionally.

a single interface for both rhythm and notation would be possible: Yamaha did it, sort of, with the RM1x - which features more than 1 octave. if there is adequate indication of which mode/part you are in, it's workable - but then you won't be 303/606 size, because you need a row of 16 steps for the rhythm part.

i'm sort of regretting selling EA1mkII and ER1mkII, only keeping the ES1mkII , because with that amount of pattern memory, that's a very open system. jam one box one day and get a load of ideas down, build on it, fill up the memory, then focus on another, then the other, and at some point, you've got enough to
knock something out just jamming patterns, copying and modifying as you go. no problem at all getting 6-7minutes down.

behringer don't strictly need to do a 606 at this point - imagine the bitching. TT606 appears to do a pretty good job for that. they are still in the midst of 808 - in fact, the tt303 mkII seems pretty ok too - i have the mk1 and love it: love it for the kitsch blatant rip of the design, and for the fact that it programs pretty much like a TB, with some extras.

saw on the other thread that you're saying forget hardware and just use DAW sequencer - you could do. i love my Orion :-) and can be happy with that, but i view it as a separate thing. there are some GREAT free VST (Ninja springs to mind, really early one), and i live the Orion sequencer so much i sometime use it to sequence hardware. i only like that DAW really, because it's the one that has some clue about how people like to use hardware. i did think about it a lot at the time (when all the main softwares were appearing for PC) and tried it all, and Orion was the obvious choice for me, even if it had less spec' and complexity, and occasionally locked up like an overheated atari. the great thing about Orion is that each pattern is independent, with pattern lengths up to 999 steps (why not 1024? ablian) - seriously, with free VST, a synthedit v1.017 license, and Orion...

matt pinchin 5th November 2019 07:53 AM

It's coming 8th November