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Roland Fantom 6- 7 -8
Old 4 weeks ago
  #5101
Lives for gear
 

Jupiter X has its fans that don't care much about the Fantom and vice versa.

It's not so much cannibalising if all the money is going in the same pocket. Different people want different things naturally so Roland is giving it to them... a bit like how BMW and other car manufacturers cashed in on the 4WD market. More options means more sales at the end of the day, Roland have did an excellent job at catering for everybody with the Zen platform if you think about it... workstation, DAW, groovebox, synthesizer, stage piano... keytar! They all have a place.

Anyone with sense could see ABM was coming to Fantom anyway.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #5102
Well, if all the Jupiter-X models come to the Fantom, I'm never buying a Jupiter-X.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #5103
Lives for gear
 

Yep ! I am punching out tracks with the Fantom 8.

Couldnt be happier. I think it just needs the extra sounds and the Zen core within
and it will be my match made in heaven.

Cheers
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #5104
As someone who kind of likes the JUPITERs and spends more time on his Xm than anything else these days, I say "the more the merrier" if/when the Model Expansions come to the FANTOM. Why shouldn't the flagship owners have this particular subset of ZEN-Core?

A bunch of other thoughts:

- I've never thought that there would be many who would want both.
- I do think that the Models will continue to be more easily utilized on the JUPITER with its controls and UI, and JUPITER was the natural starting point for the Models.
- I'm sure they could have put the Models on the FANTOM from the get-go. But from a product marketing perspective, it probably made sense to keep them differentiated by some features, artificially or not. A variety of choices to appeal to particular customer profiles is key to many companies' strategies. Plus, other rea$on$ (see below).
- That will continue to be the case. The JUPITERs will never have real-time sequencing. I suspect the FANTOM won't get I-Arp, at least not as it's implemented on the JUPITER. MCs will probably never get Tone editing. If all these devices start to do the same thing as the others, regardless of price point and interface, it will cause more confusion than cannibalization, IMO. Like Matt said, there's now something for everybody.
- Despite that, however, I can't see why they'd withhold the Models from FANTOM forever. FANTOM is the flagship. FANTOM users paid a lot of money. The Models are an exceptional application of ZEN-Core itself. Above all, the Models are an additional revenue opportunity for Roland. Yes, I bet that there will be Roland Cloud Manager and a Lifetime Key of some price attached to them, even for FANTOM owners. ZENOLOGY users have to pay for the Models. JUPITER users have to pay for Wave Expansions. Flagship or not, I don't think Roland will leave money on the table with the FANTOM. Selling (or renting) sounds looks to be a big part of their business from now on. Hopefully not at $149 each for FANTOM owners, but that is the price tag currently on them (even for JUPITER owners who are using ZENOLOGY).
- I don't envision a lot of JUPITER owners selling their synths to go get a FANTOM just because it will have the same sounds. The controls (especially for X owners) are a big part of the experience. The FANTOM experience will probably be similar to the Xm experience, but those who bought the Xm did so in part because of the size and/or the price.
- I don't think the majority of those who bought JUPITER over FANTOM in the first place did so because of Models. They wanted something that looked and performed somewhat like the Jupiters of old, and they didn't want a workstation. And most X owners certainly didn't want the Xm, even if they sound the same. They wanted a big honkin' synthesizer. I can't even tell you how many JUPITER owners (X or Xm) don't even want to deal with I-Arp, more than two Parts, or even the ZEN-Core engine. So they were never customers for the FANTOM anyway.
- Personally, I don't think the Models are the most interesting aspect of the JUPITERs. I think I-Arp and ZEN-Core are, but I doubt most JUPITER owners would agree. I'm certainly envious of the FANTOM screen, but that's about it. And ZENOLOGY Pro has pretty much scratched my itch for a better interface for sound design. But I still enjoy playing on my Xm more than in a DAW, so my Xm isn't going anywhere. And as attractive as it is, there's likely no FANTOM in my future. I've dipped into the ZEN-Core ecosystem enough at this point.
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #5105
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by studio460 View Post
Well, if all the Jupiter-X models come to the Fantom, I'm never buying a Jupiter-X.
So why don't you have one already? Maybe it's just not for you... ?

and why don't you have a System-8 or boutiques etc? Maybe you do but it's swings and roundabouts. I am sure some people got by on a boutiques or two instead of the S8, or if they were a heavy DAW user, the cloud sufficed. Same situation here.

People will pick the best choice for them. Everyone having all of their Zen gear is not Roland's goal I think but rather to get you on board and to keep you engaged.
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #5106
It’s unlikely to affect sales, the Fantom is meant to be the flagship and is a much more expensive product than the Jupiter. The target workflows are also different. If you were going to get one you’re unlikely to be getting the other, it’s far more likely someone would buy a Jupiter first then upgrade than buy a Fantom and add a Jupiter at these prices.
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #5107
Lives for gear
 
DStep ATL's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by basehead617 View Post
The fact that it wasn’t there from day 1 is weird and troubling.

Also from that Gattobus clip it sounds more like he’s saying it is coming because zen core is just a platform and the models work on that platform conceptually.. it didn’t sound like he was trying to break news.
It would have been weird if it were there IMO. Why would you expect a company to intentionally pit too key products against each other from the get go? Differentiation is business 101. Down the road when sales begin to die down, you bring in additional revenue streams and further differentiate the products, in price, by charging Fantom owners for the models.
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #5108
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by studio460 View Post
Well, if all the Jupiter-X models come to the Fantom, I'm never buying a Jupiter-X.
But depending on the price of them you will have still given Roland money (if you go that route). Right now they are on sale for $500 for the set of four. Roland probably only makes around $1000 - $1300 profit on a Jupiter-X. In addition more people may buy these versus buying Jupiter-X's because it is $500 vs. $2500 for the user. So it is not unreasonable to assume they would sell enough of these in a Fantom version to more than make up for any lost Jupiter sales to Fantom owners. I am not buying a Jupiter-X, although I would love to. But I only have so much space. So for someone like me they get the $500 or someone else will when I spend that money towards something else. All of this needs to be taken into account vs. the X amount of Jupiter-X sales lost.
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #5109
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spoff View Post
But depending on the price of them you will have still given Roland money (if you go that route). Right now they are on sale for $500 for the set of four. Roland probably only makes around $1000 - $1300 profit on a Jupiter-X. In addition more people may buy these versus buying Jupiter-X's because it is $500 vs. $2500 for the user. So it is not unreasonable to assume they would sell enough of these in a Fantom version to more than make up for any lost Jupiter sales to Fantom owners. I am not buying a Jupiter-X, although I would love to. But I only have so much space. So for someone like me they get the $500 or someone else will when I spend that money towards something else. All of this needs to be taken into account vs. the X amount of Jupiter-X sales lost.
Throwing a bunch of different sound technologies into a flagship workstation goes back to the Korg Oasis, so the concept of Roland doing it now isn't exactly wildly progressive.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #5110
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spoff View Post
But depending on the price of them you will have still given Roland money (if you go that route) . . .
My initial thoughts were to get both a Fantom and a Jupiter-X. I don't generally like working ITB so I have no desire to buy any RC instruments. I bought V-Collection with my Keystep-49's 50%-off discount code and I haven't opened it in over a year. There was another member here asking in the Jupiter-X forum if the ABM models were coming to the Fantom, and if so, he didn't want to buy a Jupiter-X.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Dairy View Post
So why don't you have one already? Maybe it's just not for you... ? . . . and why don't you have a System-8 or boutiques etc?
I would love one. I think it's a beautiful instrument. I just won't need it. I already have a System-8. Boutiques are cool; I just don't like the small buttons and the fact that there's no rackmount solution since I'm completely out of desk-space.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #5111
Gear Addict
 
Kraut's Avatar
 

I, on the other hand, started entertaining the idea of getting Jupiter X to accompany my Fantom.

That would be ridiculously hefty investment for me, as I usually rather spread my limited funds as widely between different manufacturers as possible, and Jupiter-Fantom would be rather large portion of my hard earned eggs in Roland basket.

I REALLY like the Fantom, but don’t like to carry it around, so the more dexterous Jupiter would be just nifty for quick jams.

I think the deep programming must be laborous with Jupiter. I love to lurk in the depths of the Fantom, but I also like the idea of tossing the patches into the Jupiter, and have more parameters at my fingertips while playing them, and perhaps finding some aspects of the sound, that I wouldn’t stumble upon while deep diving.

Last edited by Kraut; 4 weeks ago at 03:19 PM..
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #5112
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kraut View Post
I, on the other hand, started entertaining the idea of getting Jupiter X to accompany my Fantom.

That would be ridiculous investment for me, as I’d rather spread my limited funds as widely between different manufacturers as possible, and Jupiter-Fantom would be rather too many of my hard earned eggs in Roland basket.

I REALLY like the Fantom, but don’t like to carry it around, so the more dexterous Jupiter would be just nifty for quick jams.

I think the deep programming must be laborous with Jupiter. I love to lurk in the depths of the Fantom, but I also like the idea of tossing the patches into the Jupiter, and have more parameters at my fingertips while playing them, and perhaps finding some aspects of the sound, that I wouldn’t stumble upon while deep diving.
But in this situation having ABM on the Fantom wouldn’t sabotage the Jupiter sale, in fact the opposite - it would make it more appealing as it’s about gig-able form factor to play patches you designed using the Fantom. Having ABM on the Fantom would make creating those patches easier for you, making the Jupiter a more viable option.
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #5113
Gear Addict
 
Kraut's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mdme_sadie View Post
But in this situation having ABM on the Fantom wouldn’t sabotage the Jupiter sale, in fact the opposite - it would make it more appealing as it’s about gig-able form factor to play patches you designed using the Fantom. Having ABM on the Fantom would make creating those patches easier for you, making the Jupiter a more viable option.
I didn’t sound like it, but I fully agree. Edited the sound of my earlier post.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #5114
Gear Addict
 
Kraut's Avatar
 

I just resurfaced from a test dive. I was supposed to just briefly test sampling some sounds into the Fantom before start making dinner; a bit of Matriarch and flute, and try to see what happens if I push them through the different structures the Fantom has. 6 hours later my kids wake me up from deeep hypnosis asking, what we are going to eat.

This is dangerous business.

This thing does it all!!!
I naturally first tried stacking some detuned Matriarch sounds and played polyphonically. Of course.

Then I rubbed the Matriarch sample with the flute sample, and it made a frighteningly haunting wail of a synth sound, having characteristics remaining from both samples; it was a moogyish lead, but modulating it with a flute sample made the outcome feel like playing a wind instrument.

This is already my favorite sampling experience ever. If only Roland could also add Variphrasing into the Fantom!!!

Deep into that darkness peering,
long I stood there,
Wondering, fearing, doubting,
dreaming dreams no mortal ever dared to dream before.
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #5115
Gear Head
 

Can you help me understand how the effects (MFX, IFX1, IFX2, Chorus, Reverb) are applied, when recording the song into a DAW over USB-audio?

My workflow is to record the zones in a song to seperate stereo tracks in Cubase, and then do the last mastering in Cubase.

But it seams as if the all of the effects, that I set up in my Fantom scene, are not audible any more on the recorded tracks in Cubase.

I don't really understand the signal-path of the Fantom in this matter, and how to manage to hear the Fantom-effects on my recorded tracks in Cubase.
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #5116
Both great synths and not easy for me to choose just one, so why not both.
Attached Thumbnails
Roland Fantom 6- 7 -8-g1.jpg  
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #5117
Lives for gear
 
jiffybox's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by vampyreLegion View Post
Both great synths and not easy for me to choose just one, so why not both.
SluttyAF
Old 3 weeks ago
  #5118
Lives for gear
 
CelloJP's Avatar
Roland just released a soundfont2 convertor for the Fantom. Open the app, drag the SF2 file over and it converts. Then go to Import Sample in Utility - works perfectly!

For PC - https://www.roland.com/global/suppor...-683f3d1970e6/

For Mac - https://www.roland.com/global/suppor...-d8e0fe04cf90/

Last edited by CelloJP; 3 weeks ago at 11:15 AM.. Reason: Added Mac link
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #5119
Here for the gear
 
RichPT's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by CelloJP View Post
Roland just released a soundfont2 convertor for the Fantom. Open the app, drag the SF2 file over and it converts. Then go to Import Sample in Utility - works perfectly!

For PC - https://www.roland.com/global/suppor...-683f3d1970e6/

For Mac - https://www.roland.com/global/suppor...-d8e0fe04cf90/
Old 3 weeks ago
  #5120
Lives for gear
 

Oh yeah baby !

Thank you Roland .

Keep the updates coming for the best workstation on the planet.

Cheers
Old 3 weeks ago
  #5121
Lives for gear
 

What does this actually do?
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #5122
Gear Guru
 
Derp's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Dairy View Post
What does this actually do?
Stuff. Possibly things as well.
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #5123
Here for the gear
 

If i connect USB-microphone to Fantom, will it work? I suspect no, it will not, due to the fact Fantom USB audio is not class-compliant.
But maybe someone already tried and succeed?
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #5124
Lives for gear
 
ZT Scheer's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by andywt21 View Post
If i connect USB-microphone to Fantom, will it work? I suspect no, it will not, due to the fact Fantom USB audio is not class-compliant.
But maybe someone already tried and succeed?
Almost certainly not.
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #5125
Gear Addict
 

So what exactly does the SoundFont import give us, more options to add samples in this format obviously but anything else? A fairly quick search online brings up many SoundFont packs from older synths. Wondering if there is any advantage to these over normal WAV samples. Can each Soundfont import contain several multi-samples spread out across the keyboard? (Not sure if the WAV import can do that or not).
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #5126
Gear Guru
 
Derp's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spoff View Post
So what exactly does the SoundFont import give us, more options to add samples in this format obviously but anything else? A fairly quick search online brings up many SoundFont packs from older synths. Wondering if there is any advantage to these over normal WAV samples. Can each Soundfont import contain several multi-samples spread out across the keyboard? (Not sure if the WAV import can do that or not).
Soundfonts are kind of cool in that their original intent wasn't just a sound or two, but a full replacement of all sounds. It's kind of like having a GM audio card on your computer that uses one synthesis method, and then swapping it out with a whole other card. In the case of a soundfont, it's still all samples, but it's the entire GM set that's getting swapped out. They're used for other more simple purposes, but I always thought this aspect of soundfonts was rad.
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #5127
Gear Maniac
 
kaykaynotk's Avatar
 

How are people getting on with sequencing synths via CV with the Fantom?

I've watched a whole bunch of videos here and there and I'm coveting a Fantom for sure but I was wondering if there's any provisos when having a CV track running alongside external MIDI and internal drums/samples?

I'd want to run the CV track for bass duties with just one CV mod track controlling filter cutoff.

Interested to hear people's thoughts on it. Also excited to potentially own my first workstation after years of PC/MAC DAWs.
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #5128
Gear Head
 

Why is SUB1.SUB2. sounds better than MAIN output ?.
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #5129
TJT
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spoff View Post
So what exactly does the SoundFont import give us, more options to add samples in this format obviously but anything else? A fairly quick search online brings up many SoundFont packs from older synths. Wondering if there is any advantage to these over normal WAV samples. Can each Soundfont import contain several multi-samples spread out across the keyboard? (Not sure if the WAV import can do that or not).
From a practical standpoint, it gives you access to already built sample libraries, often available for free, that you can just import, rather than having to do it yourself. Whether they're any good, I don't know..
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #5130
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by tulin View Post
Why is SUB1.SUB2. sounds better than MAIN output ?.
Are you running the same volume out of them, or at a mixer? Even a slight change in volume will make something sound better or worse in a comparison.
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