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Roland Fantom 6- 7 -8
Old 30th August 2020
  #3781
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kram175's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by string6theory View Post
. . . a really shallow-depth, but high quality controller with piano keys.
I’m in a similar situation now. Do you already have a controller like that in mind? I’ve heard conflicting reports on the SL88 Studio, for example. It would be great to have 88 keys to play the Fantom 6’s V-Piano.
Old 30th August 2020
  #3782
I have the 8, the keybed is ok for playing synth for me because I’m used to hammer action. It’s a marmite situation, either you love it or you hate it.

For me the 8’s keybed feels great for piano, sadly the piano sounds themselves are a weak point. You asked about AT, and that’s a forget about it. It’s unusable. The Montage 8 keybed meanwhile feels wonderful for both synth and piano (and vastly superior piano sounds, but inferior to Nord) and has very smooth and controllable AT, it’s like playing liquid. Sadly 99% of its patches do not use AT, unlike Roland where almost all do but none can use it.

I would say that if you are used to synth action then you may find yourself having a hard time with hammer action keys. In theory hammer action is faster because of the bounce of the keys and the use of things like triple sensors in the Roland keybed which makes fast thrills and repeat notes trivial. Also because it’s the same weight to push down a key at the front as at the back of the key. But if you haven’t used them then the added initial weight is going to be a barrier and will tire your hands out.
Old 30th August 2020
  #3783
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spoff View Post
So I am about 48 hours into getting a new Fantom 6 and wanted to share a few thoughts.

Pros:
The sound engine is stellar, and this really is the most important thing on a synth. From gorgeous bass to crystal clear highs and including a nice and smooth analog filter, it delivers. It is an excellent platform for sound development.

Build quality - It is built like a tank and feels like a Flagship.

Workflow - the workflow and screen are well-thought-out and make the synth a pleasure to use. Still just finding new things at this stage.

Substantial polyphony and lots of effects.


Cons:
I find the physical sound of the keyboard too loud when playing hard - there is a clunk when the keys go down. Please note that I am not saying the keyboard is cheap, in fact it feels expensive.

The often discussed fact that it does not save tones within a scene, so if you edit a tone in a scene you will need to save it separately and be careful not to overwrite the current one if it is used in another scene. At least they give you 2000 tone locations to do so, plus USB storage.


It's a keeper for sure.
Polyphony is not good, I hit the limit after only 4 tracks running on the sequencer at the same time regularly. There are factory scenes with layered patches in them that have voice stealing when playing simple 3-4 note chords.

I am hoping this can get fixed with an update, the seamless transition hoards half the voices I think.
Old 30th August 2020
  #3784
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string6theory's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by kram175 View Post
I’m in a similar situation now. Do you already have a controller like that in mind? I’ve heard conflicting reports on the SL88 Studio, for example. It would be great to have 88 keys to play the Fantom 6’s V-Piano.
Same here... something like the high quality, slim Studio Logic hammer controller.
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Roland Fantom 6- 7 -8-studio-logic-sl88-grand_03.jpg  
Old 30th August 2020
  #3785
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdme_sadie View Post
I have the 8, the keybed is ok for playing synth for me because I’m used to hammer action. It’s a marmite situation, either you love it or you hate it.

For me the 8’s keybed feels great for piano, sadly the piano sounds themselves are a weak point. You asked about AT, and that’s a forget about it. It’s unusable. The Montage 8 keybed meanwhile feels wonderful for both synth and piano (and vastly superior piano sounds, but inferior to Nord) and has very smooth and controllable AT, it’s like playing liquid. Sadly 99% of its patches do not use AT, unlike Roland where almost all do but none can use it.
What a crazy conundrum! I do like the idea of playing liquid.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mdme_sadie View Post
I would say that if you are used to synth action then you may find yourself having a hard time with hammer action keys. In theory hammer action is faster because of the bounce of the keys and the use of things like triple sensors in the Roland keybed which makes fast thrills and repeat notes trivial. Also because it’s the same weight to push down a key at the front as at the back of the key. But if you haven’t used them then the added initial weight is going to be a barrier and will tire your hands out.
You may be right here. This is also why I think getting a less expensive, but still high quality hammer action controller to go with a synth-action WS like the F61 may be the way to go. That way, I'm not forced to use hammer keys for synthesis and can just focus on them when playing piano - which will hopefully help me develop better playing skills there as I progress. When I hear masterful liquid piano playing, it makes me melt like liquid.
Old 30th August 2020
  #3786
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kram175's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by string6theory View Post
Same here... something like the high quality, slim Studio Logic hammer controller.
Ah right, the SL Grand controller. That one seems to get a lot of good reviews. Here in Japan, it's a bit more expensive than the Roland RD-88 (which has SuperNatural piano plus Zencore) though. Hmm.
Old 30th August 2020
  #3787
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdme_sadie View Post
I have the 8, the keybed is ok for playing synth for me because I’m used to hammer action. It’s a marmite situation, either you love it or you hate it.

For me the 8’s keybed feels great for piano, sadly the piano sounds themselves are a weak point. You asked about AT, and that’s a forget about it. It’s unusable. The Montage 8 keybed meanwhile feels wonderful for both synth and piano (and vastly superior piano sounds, but inferior to Nord) and has very smooth and controllable AT, it’s like playing liquid. Sadly 99% of its patches do not use AT, unlike Roland where almost all do but none can use it.

I would say that if you are used to synth action then you may find yourself having a hard time with hammer action keys. In theory hammer action is faster because of the bounce of the keys and the use of things like triple sensors in the Roland keybed which makes fast thrills and repeat notes trivial. Also because it’s the same weight to push down a key at the front as at the back of the key. But if you haven’t used them then the added initial weight is going to be a barrier and will tire your hands out.
Matter of opinion and taste.,

I much prefer the V-Piano sounds compared to Montage Pianos (the Nords are nicer in general). I also use aftertouch a lot on my patches and find it perfectly usable, if a little stiff/heavy. Could do with adjusting yes - but it is usable.

As for keys, I have the Fantom 7 - but also the RD2000 which is the same PH5 action as the Fantom (minus AT). I CAN use the PHA5 for synth stuff - and do for layers and pads. For anything else the F7s synth action is a lot better.
Old 30th August 2020
  #3788
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Dairy View Post
Polyphony is not good, I hit the limit after only 4 tracks running on the sequencer at the same time regularly. There are factory scenes with layered patches in them that have voice stealing when playing simple 3-4 note chords.

I am hoping this can get fixed with an update, the seamless transition hoards half the voices I think.
Still not really sure how polyphoney works TBH.

I have tested, and with 18 partials assigned (4 zones with all 4 partials active, and a 5th with 2 active) I can hold 5 notes OK - but the 6th note steals.

Thats a total of 90 sounds IF each partial is one voice (which it looks like - but isnt normal when counting polyphony - for instance Peak is 8 voice, but has 3 oscilators pers sound which counts a 1 choice).

Even if you assume its holding another 90 in reserve so seamless switching - thats still only 180 of the apparent 256 notes.

Im assuming then, that (as other have suggested) Stereo takes double polyphony.

If thats the case - its not really 256 at all. Its 128 stereo, half of which are reserved so 64..... and thats oscillators/partials NOT sounds. In fact we have 64 note polyphony (that is 64 x 4 partial sounds), half of which are reserved for seamless switching. As thats not defeatable (at present) we have a 32 note polyphone synth.

Sure - if you only use 2 partials per tone - we double that BUT its not really how you should have to think about it.

Either way, there not going to change the "part = voice" thing, nor the stereo =double voice thing. The only room for maneuver is to allow the seamless switching to have enable/disable options ON a scene by scene (or even better a zone by zone) basis.
Old 30th August 2020
  #3789
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OK......

You CAN disable tone remain....... Its in system/sound. second option down. Its ON by default, but you can take it off.

Testing this with the same as previously, note stealing no longer occurs. So you can "double" your polyphony if you dont need seamless tone switching.

**EDIT

Maybe not. Tried again, with simpler patches (no FX for instance). It seems to make no difference if tone remain is switched on or off so?? still non the wiser.
Old 30th August 2020
  #3790
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It's all pretty mysterious, and of course the term "polyphony" itself is wide open to interpretation. A polyphony meter would be invaluable to help creatively work round the limitations and get the best out of the keyboard but I suspect Roland would never implement it as it would highlight the problem, instead they hide behind their misleading "256 polyphony" marketing statement.

I think most studio users couldn't care less about seamless transitions and are using it as a workstation, not for live sets. There will be of course using the feature and it is a very nice modern bullet point to have. But please let us disable this Roland if it would indeed boost polyphony so significantly.
Old 30th August 2020
  #3791
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paulmapp8306 View Post
OK......

You CAN disable tone remain....... Its in system/sound. second option down. Its ON by default, but you can take it off.

Testing this with the same as previously, note stealing no longer occurs. So you can "double" your polyphony if you dont need seamless tone switching.

I also think you can force mono. If you connect outputs to Left and right, it forces stereo. If you have a USB connected and Fantom is set to "vendor" it also forces stereo. If however you have no USB connected, and only connect to the left output - it seems to force mono. Testing here, with tone remain ON, I get 10 notes not 5 before note stealing occurs. If I then turn tone remain off, I get 20 notes before tone stealing.

So - while not ideal (mono is fine for live, so thats what I generally use - I only noticed the note stealing when Id connected via USB and set to vendor so I could trial Zenology).


Tell me you aren't lying!

This will make a major difference to me. I should be free of cut voices running the sequencer with double the voices available. Very nice.



WTF. Yes? No? Maybe?

We need the hardly boys!
Old 30th August 2020
  #3792
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Damn not got my Fantom to check... does tapping on a new scene cut the tails off with tone remain off?
Old 30th August 2020
  #3793
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Definitely need an explanation of how this works.

I set a total of 14 partials across several "tones".

Non have any FX.

I get 7 notes - then on the 8th I loose the first (all notes held by a sustain pedal). I have no voices "reserved" - everything is on max.

Thats a total (assuming one voice of polyphony per partial) of 98 voices.

This makes no sense...... If stereo OR Tone remain saves the same again, that means 196 used or reserved (depending). It cant be BOTH stereo and tone remain as that would be 392 voices - which is over the 256 stated.

So - EITHER stereo doubles, OR Tone remain doubles. But in that case, Id have used 198 - and on the next note (the 8th) I should be on 224..... yet I still loose the first note - when I should have 32 voices left.



Its possible that tone remain ring fences SOME voices - a finite number, say 48 - rather than an equal number to those used in your scene (maybe its one zones worth) as switching tone remain off doesnt seem to make any difference (wouldnt need to lower the partial count, and play a lot more notes to test that).

Either way - I think Roland need to publish how polyphony is counted. What uses it - what counts as one voice, what "ring fences" voices and how many etc so that users can calculate what they can or cant layer, or have playing in the sequencer at any time.

*Note. As a live player, I havent had issues playing - as I dont layer more than a couple of sounds, and only have so many fingers, but it "may" become a problem down the line - and many who sequence REALLY need to know how this works.
Old 30th August 2020
  #3794
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From the Roland Clan Forum:

""Its 128 polyphony and not 256. However its 256 Voices.

Here is why:

Each Partial use 1 polyphony and 2 voices, the extra voice is RESERVED for STEREO PCM samples.
Even if that Partial only use a MONO PCM sample the extra voice spot is still RESERVED.

So a 4 note chord which consist of 1 Tone using 4 Partials will eat away 16 polyphony and 32 voices:

Partial 1 (Mono PCM) cost 1 polyphony and 2 voices
Partial 2 (Stereo PCM) cost 1 polyphony and 2 voices
Partial 3 (Mono PCM) cost 1 polyphony and 2 voices
Partial 4 (Mono PCM ) cost 1 polyphony and 2 voices

In other words you dont save any polyphony/voices by using Mono PCM only.

Most stores assume the wording "Voice" is equal to "Polyphony" but its not.""




** This still doesnt add up though - as my "14 partial" test would be at 98 of 128 , then the next note cut out - when I should still have been in at 112.... I can only assume that as well as the partial thing - Fantom saves "some" unknown quality of polyphony to hold notes over when changing scene.

Also - turning tone remain on and off doesnt appear to do anything..... It doesnt change polyphony, NOR does it change how things work when switching scenes.... Trails are still in tact, held notes on the keybed continue to hold, held notes from a sustain pedal cut off. So either tone remain isnt what I (or others) think - or the toggle on/off isnt actually working.

** Edit 2

OK - the tone remain think in system has nothing to do with "seamless switching" (ie holding notes when switching scenes). It affects what happens within a zone when you select a new sound. for instance play a synth sound, hold the key, and select brass, or strings. With remain on the sound stays the same (though the FX change to those used on the new one.... With it off, the notes stop playing as soon as you change the sound selection. Not what I though - but makes (a little) sense.
Old 30th August 2020
  #3795
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Tone Remain Sw OFF, ON

Specifies whether the currently heard sound is held when you select another sound (ON) or not held (OFF).
* Even if this is “ON,” the effect sound might not be held in some cases.
Old 30th August 2020
  #3796
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Having a graphical display of exactly what is eating what in real time would be invaluable for programming, nice colour screen right there.
Old 30th August 2020
  #3797
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OK - further testing (by no means exhaustive) and research.

Fantom doesnt have 256 note polyphony - it has 256 voices. Regardless of if you use mono PCMs, the VA (which is a mono waveform) or stereo PCMs, it assumes each partial uses 2 voices. So in fact you have true 128 note Polyphony.

HOWEVER, it also "reserves" some for the seamless switching (which is different from tone remain). Post testing, Im thinking its 48 (or 24 STEREO Partials). This is guesswork but based from how many "partials" I can sound before I get note stealing. I dont get 128....

So in reality - until we can switch seamless switching off, we actually have a polyphone of around 104 partials.

You can of course manage that, as a twin oscillator VA patch would use half a 4 oscilator one would, but worse case - assuming each sound hgad 4 partials, you have 26 notes. Either 26 notes in one zone, 13 in 2 zones, 8 notes across 3 zones etc.

Not only that - any tones that rely on the amp envelope for decay (rather than a reverb trail - as FX dont alter/use polyphony) would still be used when you change note....you could easily half that again with synth pads.


How can Roland solve/change this? I can think of two things.

1. Make seamless switching optional in system (or scene) menus. Assuming that does use/save polyphony that would give us a little back (up to the 24 notes, or 6 x 4 partial notes).

2. Dont reserve polypohony for stereo, when waveforms selected are mono..... If you use a mono PCM or the VA engine your not going to use the reserved polyphony..... Thats just wasting resources.

Those 2 things together would greatly increase "manageable" polyphony. At least we have the choice..... Going for mono waveforms and no seamless switching and we more than double or real works polyphony, even on 4 partial tones to a maximum 64 notes.....
Old 30th August 2020
  #3798
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Dairy View Post
Tone Remain Sw OFF, ON

Specifies whether the currently heard sound is held when you select another sound (ON) or not held (OFF).
* Even if this is “ON,” the effect sound might not be held in some cases.
I think its always held when on (not found one that doesn bar V-Pianos which is not involved in seamless switching, or polyphony as its its own thing)- as I say though, the FX do change to the ones associated with the new sound.

either way - thats selecting a new sound within a zone, not the "seamless switching" thing which is active when you change zones or scenes. THATS whats eating some of the Polyphony I think.
Old 30th August 2020
  #3799
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Hmm interesting. Could different scenes be reserving different amounts of polyphony? (depending on how many voices they have plugged into them, patch wise) There is a scene ?Lake Tahoe, that uses a lot of polyphony. versus a blank scene which just has pianos across the zones I think.

The polyphony situation could definitely be improved / made more efficient with some FW options. I hope Roland have something in mind, they know better than anyone how it works.

With the MC 707 certain slope filters eat up more polyphony than others. Since they are both Zencore surely it is the same on Fantom?
Old 30th August 2020
  #3800
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OK - seems Im right about the "reserving for seemless switching) I designed 2 tones. One was a 4 partial which I held on the lowest note only- the other was 2 partial which i used to add polyphony. I got to 104 partials (the 4 low note plus 50 notes of the twin Osc patch) before I got note steeling, when I added the next I lost 2 partials of the low note, and the next I lost it all. That means I had 104 partials used before stealing. Using the 128 note (not 256 voice) figures, that means there are 24 notes (or 48 voices) being reserved for something else....which I can only assume is the seemless switching.



This test seems pretty conclusive (if not the reasons).

We have 128 voices of polyphony...which is 256 stereo partials (or 256 voices). This is the first thing Roland need to change (if its possible with firmware) - as using mono waveforms shouldnt use 2 voices.... it would only every need 1.

There are then 24 notes of polyohony being reserved by the system for something. While I/we dont know what - it would seem sensible to assume thats for the seamless switching. So making that switchable on/off would give the possibility to increase polyphony if needed.

That gives us currently 104 notes of useable polyphony. This is 104 PARTIALS though, NOT Notes. This is key when designing sounds, and using the sequencer. Using 4 partials in every tone would reduce you polyphony to 26 notes. The vast majority of sounds (certainly synth ones) would use at least 2 waveforms - and while some orchestral sounds may only use a single - the two are likely to balance, so its realistic to assume a working base of 52 notes (not worst case, but average use and a base line to work from).

Its also important to note the effect of decay. While FX (including reverb) are not counted to polyphony, having a note decay via the partials amp envelope means its still using notes of polyphony when it decays. The same will be true of PCM sounds such as pianos etc where the sample decays after release. For many of us this will greatly reduce the actual working polyphony.... again by perhaps half on average.

So - ultimately, while we have some control with the design of sounds, we dont have total control of how polyphony is reserved/used - and actually we only have somewhere around 26 notes worth as a baseline average that we can actually rely on.

Thats not a lot if your using layers, or indeed splits in the sequencer. If you layered 4 x 4 partial tones - or 4 2 partial tones where the PCMs or amp envs have a decay, you could only play 6 notes - after which you'd get note stealing....

At least if you could turn off seemless switching, and dynamically assign polyphony dependant on the waves being stereo or mono - you could actually up that to 16 notes (given the same 4 x 4 partial tones, or 4 x 2 partial tones with decaying amp envs or Samples). Even thats not GREAT, but at least thats reasonably workable.
Old 30th August 2020
  #3801
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Depressing reading to be honest, it is no wonder I was running out of voices after only 4 tracks running on the sequencer.

Roland have under powered this workstation, a surprise to no one I'm sure, but they should have tossed in another of those BMC chips to boost the polyphony to something usable, to a place where we wouldn't be stiffed so readily. Pass on the cost to us, it would be negligible at this price point, or soak it up and deliver a modern instrument which this claims to be. If they had given it a physical expansion slot I know I would have stumped up to boost the polyphony so I could actually take better advantage of the 16 tracks it has.

Feels less a workstation, more a jumped up synthesizer. I guess polyphony has always been a problem, but this is 2020 and the same problems exist decades later because of corporate cost cutting measures impinging on the instrument.

The least Roland could do is give us these polyphony sparing options via FW then.
Old 30th August 2020
  #3802
Quote:
Originally Posted by paulmapp8306 View Post
Matter of opinion and taste.,

I much prefer the V-Piano sounds compared to Montage Pianos (the Nords are nicer in general). I also use aftertouch a lot on my patches and find it perfectly usable, if a little stiff/heavy. Could do with adjusting yes - but it is usable.

As for keys, I have the Fantom 7 - but also the RD2000 which is the same PH5 action as the Fantom (minus AT). I CAN use the PHA5 for synth stuff - and do for layers and pads. For anything else the F7s synth action is a lot better.
He’s asking about the 8, not the 7, it’s a different keybed. The RD doesn’t offer AT. AT is not usable on the 8. Regardless of any software adjustment available in the OS it’s simply badly designed and requires insane levels of pressure leading to a binary on/off situation when it does engage with no in between values. I believe it’s another victim of the cost cutting on the construction of this keyboard, like the silly drum pads.

With regards the V-piano, yes it is personal preference but I’ll try to explain my reasons for not being impressed by it. For me it’s both sound and user experience that makes it bad. To start it’s somewhat imbalanced with a lot of energy loss at the low end which makes the treble end sound quite shrill, sadly EQ doesn’t seem to be able to solve this, once you up the bass and mids it just becomes wooly.

There’s also no complexity to the notes, hit a low note on a real piano or the Montage (or any sample library, or even with Modart) and you get a rich raspy metallic sound full of interesting harmonics evolving constantly, not so with the V-piano which has a weird smooth convolution reverb like sound, maybe it’s a single sample time stretched for all notes, maybe they just have too short of a loop, maybe it really is just a convolution. They try to add complexity by adding chorus as an effect on the piano scene patches (bank B), but that just makes things sound even more synth like to my ears. When you play with sustain it makes things sound chorded or harp like, every note is the same.

Then at the top end you really start to notice that the hammer noise is pitched to the note, which makes no sense as it’s a mechanical noise. With sample based pianos it’s just a round robin or multisample that isn’t pitched so it sounds and feels more authentic, having it pitched just sounds bad and feels weird.

Finally you get to the UX, the fact you can only use it in the first zone is limiting and means you can’t blend V pianos. Also the way it’s designed so that to change the piano types you actually have to change every individual note one at a time rather than being able to select a range and adjust all notes at once which is just a inconvenience but enough of one with everything else to deter me from bothering to explore its possibilities.

Overall I feel the V-Piano plays and sounds like electronic pianos from 20 years ago and would have been considered very good back then. But sample libraries and even physical modeling have moved on. For me when I compare it side by side with the Montage and even when I compared it side by side with all the other brands in the store (Casio, Nord, Yamaha/Clavinova, Kawai and I think a Korg) it came out unfavorably at the bottom to my ears.

But this is just the piano, there’s a lot more to the Fantom then just that. The keybed does feel marvelous, truly one of the best hammer actions on the market, a contender for the best IMO. The VA is really nice and very fun to play with and it has a true analog filter. The sample library contains some very good classic synth samples. The Zencore system is one of the easiest to use synth setups with that fabulous touchscreen screen (unlike the Montage who’s UI seems to be a lesson in how not to do things). etc.
Old 30th August 2020
  #3803
Quote:
Originally Posted by paulmapp8306 View Post
OK - seems Im right about the "reserving for seemless switching) I designed 2 tones. One was a 4 partial which I held on the lowest note only- the other was 2 partial which i used to add polyphony. I got to 104 partials (the 4 low note plus 50 notes of the twin Osc patch) before I got note steeling, when I added the next I lost 2 partials of the low note, and the next I lost it all. That means I had 104 partials used before stealing. Using the 128 note (not 256 voice) figures, that means there are 24 notes (or 48 voices) being reserved for something else....which I can only assume is the seemless switching.



This test seems pretty conclusive (if not the reasons).

We have 128 voices of polyphony...which is 256 stereo partials (or 256 voices). This is the first thing Roland need to change (if its possible with firmware) - as using mono waveforms shouldnt use 2 voices.... it would only every need 1.

There are then 24 notes of polyohony being reserved by the system for something. While I/we dont know what - it would seem sensible to assume thats for the seamless switching. So making that switchable on/off would give the possibility to increase polyphony if needed.

That gives us currently 104 notes of useable polyphony. This is 104 PARTIALS though, NOT Notes. This is key when designing sounds, and using the sequencer. Using 4 partials in every tone would reduce you polyphony to 26 notes. The vast majority of sounds (certainly synth ones) would use at least 2 waveforms - and while some orchestral sounds may only use a single - the two are likely to balance, so its realistic to assume a working base of 52 notes (not worst case, but average use and a base line to work from).

Its also important to note the effect of decay. While FX (including reverb) are not counted to polyphony, having a note decay via the partials amp envelope means its still using notes of polyphony when it decays. The same will be true of PCM sounds such as pianos etc where the sample decays after release. For many of us this will greatly reduce the actual working polyphony.... again by perhaps half on average.

So - ultimately, while we have some control with the design of sounds, we dont have total control of how polyphony is reserved/used - and actually we only have somewhere around 26 notes worth as a baseline average that we can actually rely on.

Thats not a lot if your using layers, or indeed splits in the sequencer. If you layered 4 x 4 partial tones - or 4 2 partial tones where the PCMs or amp envs have a decay, you could only play 6 notes - after which you'd get note stealing....

At least if you could turn off seemless switching, and dynamically assign polyphony dependant on the waves being stereo or mono - you could actually up that to 16 notes (given the same 4 x 4 partial tones, or 4 x 2 partial tones with decaying amp envs or Samples). Even thats not GREAT, but at least thats reasonably workable.
Yup, went over this stuff earlier in the thread with some smug people asking me to figure it out for myself while assuring that it’s really 256 voice polyphony. It isn’t. Patches like Metropolis can barely handle 4 notes before stealing occurs, yet have very few zones active and use mono samples. I asked them to figure it out instead, they never got back to me.

I wish it were better than it is, but I think we have to accept that this is the limit of the Fantom. So it’s time to get creative. FX are one workaround for certain situations, e.g. to extend notes out for pads maybe use reverb and rather than release. Chorus and stereo widener will give you a similar effect to unison without the polyphonic cost. Pitch delay can replicate basic arps within patches to an extent. Stuff like that can improve your bang for buck when building complex sounding patches.
Old 30th August 2020
  #3804
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Think I've read your thoughts before, here or on a forum.

I only every use one of the first few v pianos. I do get what yoh say, but every time I go to a sample based souns, I find it overly scouped. It sll seems to be the metallic bottom end as you say, then too end sheen. The mid range body just usnt there.

To be there all compromises. It just which you can live with, and for me its that lack of body. For you its lack of overtones and hammer noise.

Its all personal.
Old 30th August 2020
  #3805
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdme_sadie View Post
I wish it were better than it is, but I think we have to accept that this is the limit of the Fantom. So it’s time to get creative. FX are one workaround for certain situations, e.g. to extend notes out for pads maybe use reverb and rather than release. Chorus and stereo widener will give you a similar effect to unison without the polyphonic cost. Pitch delay can replicate basic arps within patches to an extent. Stuff like that can improve your bang for buck when building complex sounding patches.
Yep I hear this but at the same time it is pretty sad we are forced into fakery and mental gymnastics like this and can't enjoy using basic functions on a keyboard of this stature if you want multiple tracks or a layer.

For the asking price I don't think it is good enough. MC707 produces much more bang for buck polyphony wise.
Old 30th August 2020
  #3806
Would Roland be able to change this? Would they be willing to? Is that even in the roadmap?

For me the Fantom feels more like a synth that they added sampling onto. Like it feels like they had this idea for the Jupiter then thought "Ok, this is great. So what if we could extend this out to a workstation, maybe have an enclosed hardware front end for Roland Cloud? Then we could compete with Komplete.".

On the synth front, things are great with the Fantom. Other stuff feels a little bit rushed.
Old 30th August 2020
  #3807
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mdme_sadie View Post
Would Roland be able to change this? Would they be willing to? Is that even in the roadmap?

For me the Fantom feels more like a synth that they added sampling onto. Like it feels like they had this idea for the Jupiter then thought "Ok, this is great. So what if we could extend this out to a workstation, maybe have an enclosed hardware front end for Roland Cloud? Then we could compete with Komplete.".

On the synth front, things are great with the Fantom. Other stuff feels a little bit rushed.
I’ve been waiting for this sampler update since January so they damn well better have some interesting features like variOS in there lol. If they do that and add some sequencer enhancements along with an envelope for the analog filter, I’ll be all set.
Old 30th August 2020
  #3808
Fantom-7 (2019) MIDI-output suddenly absent!

Also just posted this to RolandClan forum: "So I have a brand new Fantom-7 delivered two days ago, August 2020. Its MIDI-OUT 1 port was connected to a MIDI Solutions T8 MIDI-thru box via five-pin DIN. Last night, it was sending MIDI note-data fine. Turned it on this morning—nothing. Cannot send any note data to any other module. Updated to 1.60 two days ago without issue. Any ideas?"

• Tried a different MIDI cable.
• Bypassed MIDI-thru box and plugged directly to another module.
• Re-checked all MIDI settings.
• Disconnected Aira Link USB cable to MX-1.

Again, last night—working perfectly. Made no changes, now, no MIDI-output! Going to try a factory-reset now [MENU → UTILITY → FACTORY RESET].
Old 30th August 2020
  #3809
Ok. So look to the left of the screen to the row of sliders, buttons and rotaries for the zones. Press the lit up button under the rotary dial (and above the slider) for the first zone (or for any that are lit up). I have no idea what it's meant to be doing, or why you would ever not want midi to go from the Fantom or a zone, but for me at least this is what's required to get it to work.
Old 30th August 2020
  #3810
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdme_sadie View Post
Ok. So look to the left of the screen to the row of sliders, buttons and rotaries for the zones. Press the lit up button under the rotary dial (and above the slider) for the first zone (or for any that are lit up). I have no idea what it's meant to be doing, or why you would ever not want midi to go from the Fantom or a zone, but for me at least this is what's required to get it to work.
Thank you! Let me check that! Hmmm . . . the two left buttons are already lit and oscillate on-and-off as I press the keys. I never had to explicitly press those buttons (they're lit when I turn the machine on). I believe this is how it's always been, so it appears to be working normally. But still no actual MIDI-output from the five-pin DIN.

Since the MIDI Solutions' thru-box derives its power from the MIDI-port; i.e., no wall-wart or other power supply for the unit (I didn't even know MIDI-ports supplied power), this is my prime suspect. Perhaps a power-cycling issue has something to do with the port not behaving correctly or sending a micro-current-surge which confuses the logic in the port, I dunno.

Wait! I pressed the top "SELECT" button and the external module plays, but now it's only playing a single part on the Fantom factory scene. Hmmm . . . weird.
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