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New Roland Synths Launch - Abbey Road, London, 29 August 2019
Old 9th September 2019
  #331
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gentleclockdivid's Avatar
 

Maybe next time don't base your opinion on 1 video , you never know how it was recorded
Old 9th September 2019
  #332
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Coorec's Avatar
I think Roland really did well on this release streak.

The Fantom is simply amazing. With a groovebox/clip sequencer at heart and connections to my specialists sound slaves in spades. Best workstation ever in my opinion. And with a rear side like this, its probably completely Midi 2.0 ready too, which destines a long life.

The Jupiters may not be what some people expect from the name (analog) but they seem to be great synths and some the demos i've heard were stunning.

MC 707 and its little brother. Well Roland has knack for grooveboxes lately. After the TR-8S its just the next logical step filling the only gap that was left. More steps and sampling. Also sends/returns, so not everything has to sound like Roland/Boss FX. Great concept.

The new Boutique Juno? People always say Roland doesnt listen. Well, they obviously do. If they just had released more 106 to cash in, that would have been alright, but with the extra 60 model and the chnages to the strip area it shows that they react to feedback. Also crash and burn the 2nd hand market speculators. Great move.

Do i miss Roland analog? Not even a little bit. There is enough analog stuff out there and Roland got all the connections to them right.

To me it seems the "new" Roland (after the management changes 4-5 years ago) has finally found its slot in todays synth market. Things are a bit too pricey for my liking, so i have to wait until they come down a little. But i see myself with a Fantom at some point and i will surely test the 707.
Old 9th September 2019
  #333
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Coorec's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Disease Factory View Post
Roland should be putting out new cloud synths instead of a workstation that no one needs.
No one needs? I pretty much want it.

Kronos sequencer and connections compared to new Fantom? Laughable.

Synthesis? Who cares.. there is a gazzilion of synth options out there.
I dont need, no i dont WANT everything in one box.
I need a heart for my setup, able to control my Quantum, my JDXA, my Two Voice, my Eurorack, my DSIs, etc.
Fantom ticks all the boxes.

May be have another look. Its not as bad as Kronos and Montage. Its really cool.
Old 9th September 2019
  #334
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gentleclockdivid's Avatar
 

You've made your point a gazillion times , why keep barking ?
Old 9th September 2019
  #335
Gear Maniac
Dude please stop like you said 18 hours ago.
Time to take a nap maybe.
Please if not for us do it for yourself.
Old 9th September 2019
  #336
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Coorec's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Disease Factory View Post
this is just a repackaged thing from the past, no new stuff, and it sounds worse to me than the other stuff. It has a few cool things but man it just does not bring anything new.
Some would say that about "Wrack" and "Pestilence".
Truth is i like listen to them both.
I am not as young as i used to be. I like when things get repackaged, so i can recognize and still love or hate them.
Especially if there is enough new stuff in it to be interesting.

Here is free advice, Bryan. Be less stubborn about unimportant things. It really helps to see more beauty, or just more in general.

cheers
Old 9th September 2019
  #337
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Disease Factory View Post
Yeah, point taken.

Prb is i love roland, i mean old roland. I cannot buy a jp8 anymore and it makes me sad.

DF
That synth is forty years old. Nostalgia is just an excuse to feel sad for yourself. Look at the forum today, there are so many amazing instruments being released lately it’s hard to keep up. Find a new love, old Roland left you years ago.
Old 9th September 2019
  #338
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goldphinga's Avatar
 

For me, if the synths fit into my music then they are great synths. But- Looking at any synth in isolation doesn't give a broad view, and thats the issue these days, especially with youtube reviews etc; hardly anyone puts the instruments in context with other familiar instruments. There's little to no context!! Personally speaking as a player and a reviewer on paper, I wanna hear stuff in real world situations, next to synths that are known to sound great and accepted as classics or universally praised for good reason. All these youtube vids are just boring the hell out of me tbh- especially when a video is 40 mins long and every single bit i skip goes to another bit of talking. It should be that these tastemakers can actually make a decent beat or at least have some basic grasp of musicality, context, taste, funk, you know... I think a lot of the issue here are down to the wrong people 'demoing' and 'reviewing'. They are doing us all a disservice. Lets have some excitement and real musicianship not just facts, badly played demos, misjudged collections of musicians miming and trying to look 'cool' on a tour bus. Frankly it makes me sick! Now if they'd given me that XM i would have played it to its last breathe to show you guys what it was REALLY capable of, when I get one to review ill make sure I make a decent demo for you guys so you can make an actual decision definitely as to whether a synth is decent or not. On another subject, in all my years reviewing and making playing vids, not one of these companies has ever invited me to one of their special events, if they had I would have scooped out some proper playing for you all. Alas, I retreat into my synth cave and cry.
Old 9th September 2019
  #339
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Coorec's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by goldphinga View Post
For me, if the synths fit into my music then they are great synths. But- Looking at any synth in isolation doesn't give a broad view, and thats the issue these days, especially with youtube reviews etc; hardly anyone puts the instruments in context with other familiar instruments. There's little to no context!! Personally speaking as a player and a reviewer on paper, I wanna hear stuff in real world situations, next to synths that are known to sound great and accepted as classics or universally praised for good reason. All these youtube vids are just boring the hell out of me tbh- especially when a video is 40 mins long and every single bit i skip goes to another bit of talking. It should be that these tastemakers can actually make a decent beat or at least have some basic grasp of musicality, context, taste, funk, you know... I think a lot of the issue here are down to the wrong people 'demoing' and 'reviewing'. They are doing us all a disservice. Lets have some excitement and real musicianship not just facts, badly played demos, misjudged collections of musicians miming and trying to look 'cool' on a tour bus. Frankly it makes me sick! Now if they'd given me that XM i would have played it to its last breathe to show you guys what it was REALLY capable of, when I get one to review ill make sure I make a decent demo for you guys so you can make an actual decision definitely as to whether a synth is decent or not. On another subject, in all my years reviewing and making playing vids, not one of these companies has ever invited me to one of their special events, if they had I would have scooped out some proper playing for you all. Alas, I retreat into my synth cave and cry.
But what would we do without them telling us: "here is the record button and next to it you find the play button where you can start your playback" .. how would we ever know wheres what
Old 9th September 2019
  #340
Gear Maniac
 

I saw on the Roland website that the manual and preset list can be downloaded for the JU-06A. The presets for the 106 mode are the same as for the JU-06, the 60 mode has different presets. Now I'm wandering if the sound engine model is actually the same, only the presets bank are different. Or does the settings tweak some DCO/DCF/ADSR settings to fit more the 60 (or 106 vice versa). I would hope the latter, although the changes probably will be subtle.

Anybody who had a quick try at the JU-06A can tell something about this?
Old 9th September 2019
  #341
Quote:
Originally Posted by Disease Factory View Post
Analog still kills digital in bass and leads and arps.

DF
Really? You've been championing soft synths the whole thread so far.
My studio is hybrid - a complete mix of analog, digital and software.
There is NO rule. It's fun to use whatever sounds right for the moment - which for me can be anything from analog thru digital to software.
Old 9th September 2019
  #342
Quote:
Originally Posted by Disease Factory View Post
hence why i kinda bitched here..

DF
Confused....
But you've posted continuously how killer Diva is, and Monarch and Massive X, especially compared to certain hardware synths.
So do you use those soft synths for bass and leads, or do you just use them to 'fill the cracks'.

You told me your live rig is a laptop and software. So all your live shows feature underwhelming bass and leads?
Old 9th September 2019
  #343
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ljefe View Post
Find a new love, old Roland left you years ago.
That line makes me sadder than it should
Old 9th September 2019
  #344
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
Really? You've been championing soft synths the whole thread so far.
My studio is hybrid - a complete mix of analog, digital and software.
There is NO rule. It's fun to use whatever sounds right for the moment - which for me can be anything from analog thru digital to software.
Yes. The analogue-vs-digital is a false dichotomy. Unnecessary (except tape and outboard). Not us-vs-them; more 'what can we do together.' I like choosing an instrument on it's own merits in the hybrid studio.

The new Roland synths are aspirational on my budget but it is interesting that they still offer something amongst the vst synths. Roland sound aside, what appeals to me most is the ready-to-go tactile interface for performance; also, it'll sit alongside the SubPhatty monosynth well. The 3 octaves looks a good size for my 'pad' hand.
Old 9th September 2019
  #345
Lives for gear
People are bitching about Fantom because they either A- feel they can't afford it, or B- aren't willing to sacrifice anything to get it. Greatness comes at a price folks. Analog and digital are pretty much married these days and those stuck in the past saying 30 year old technology sounds better than today, are making music that sounds like it's 30 years old in most cases. The Fantom is built for now and the future. You either adapt or get left behind. If you can't make a great track using Fantom, you simply don't have what it takes to make great tracks- period. That may ruffle some feathers, but it's the truth.
Old 9th September 2019
  #346
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maisonvague's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Disease Factory View Post
Roland should be putting out new cloud synths instead of a workstation that no one needs.
That no one needs?!

Dude. Why do you keep doing this? I’m trying to take you seriously.

I think I first landed on your tracks when I was researching an SH-2. You’ve done some good work.

And artists should be opinionated.

But you’re taking it to the extreme, I think.
Old 9th September 2019
  #347
Kja
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The only one I really have a problem with, besides the dorky i-arp thing, is the 101.. I mean if you wanna make simple dance music in a coffee shop great.. but that interface? I want a $500 romper fiercely that's new.. but I really don't want to go through sounds on that two line screen at all.. to me for as much is going on in that thing that interface is just not gonna work.. I thought the jdxi was bad... Plus for $100 more you can get a opz that is more portable, much better interface, and infinitely more powerful, plus doesn't sound as generic. I really don't get why anyone would want that thing but horses for courses.
Old 9th September 2019
  #348
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coorec View Post
[...] To me it seems the "new" Roland (after the management changes 4-5 years ago) has finally found its slot in todays synth market. [...]
Yeah. I follow Roland a lil' too closely. 2014/2015 was an explosion of new ideas, they all had potential but were a bit wonky*. The years after that were all about listening to people's feedback on those and using that to refine their formula, with new products directly addressing issues that had been brought up and including things that people had asked for. They've been doing their homework and it shows.

Their approach will never please analog remakes fans but there's more to the synth world than analog and remakes.

*and aesthetically offensive to some
Old 9th September 2019
  #349
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Disease Factory View Post
Roland doubled down on Digital, while behringer capitalised on a 808, 101, and juno, Cheap. ASM is a great digital and a good price, kinda like massive in keyboard form. Korg puts out analogs that sound ok. And still has the king of workstations the kronos that has very impressive synthesis.

Roland should be putting out new cloud synths instead of a workstation that no one needs. its cool they got the groove box in there, yeah but you can get that for 500 in the mc101.

The jup x, i'll take a virus over it any day. 2nd hand even cheaper.

Analog still kills digital in bass and leads and arps.

DF
I'd trade a Virus in for the Jupiter X in an instant.

Edit: it's a theoretical at this point, but actually if I were to do that, my real question would be, for me: why not the Fantom, instead? The only thing the Jupiter X has going over it is more knobs, and I have no problem with touch screen interfaces.

The wait and see question then would be: organ emulations. Do they come in for free, later, at that price, or is it more money for another "Plug Out." I think I'd hold off until that was clear.

Last edited by realtrance; 9th September 2019 at 05:03 PM..
Old 9th September 2019
  #350
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robinkle's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by realtrance View Post
I'd trade a Virus in for the Jupiter X in an instant.

Edit: it's a theoretical at this point, but actually if I were to do that, my real question would be, for me: why not the Fantom, instead? The only thing the Jupiter X has going over it is more knobs, and I have no problem with touch screen interfaces.

The wait and see question then would be: organ emulations. Do they come in for free, later, at that price, or is it more money for another "Plug Out." I think I'd hold off until that was clear.
I use a Virus Rack XL. Had 3 TI's earler. I think the Virus is a trance machine. The Jupiter-X is more like a Funk machine. They seem so different to me, that they can't be compared. I'm into electro-funk at the moment and will trade the Virus to a Jupiter-X.

Back in the day, you had those big poly brass sounds, TR-808's, moogy basses, Prophet-5 Sync leads. You know. The Jupiter-X has ladder filter, you can get a bit of moogy basses out of that. You have a Prophet-5 Filter as well. Jupiter-X seems to have it all man!
Old 9th September 2019
  #351
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Yeah but Fantom has MOAR.

The story for me now turns to, why wait for Jupiter X when Fantom is already out?
Old 9th September 2019
  #352
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robinkle's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by realtrance View Post
Yeah but Fantom has MOAR.

The story for me now turns to, why wait for Jupiter X when Fantom is already out?
I don't think the Fantom has Vintage Synth engines. And it's more expensive. And it does things I don't need.
Old 9th September 2019
  #353
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robinkle View Post
I don't think the Fantom has Vintage Synth engines. And it's more expensive. And it does things I don't need.
Modal Banks, as they seem to be called. Still hard to tell whether those are just collections of emulative settings, or actual differences in the modeling.

But yes, I can certainly understand price difference and difference in need and use.

The question is how different "under the hood" they actually are, whether Jupiter-X/m are subsets of Fantom, architecturally. Not an important factor, just a question of curiosity on my part.
Old 9th September 2019
  #354
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robinkle's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by realtrance View Post
Modal Banks, as they seem to be called. Still hard to tell whether those are just collections of emulative settings, or actual differences in the modeling.

But yes, I can certainly understand price difference and difference in need and use.

The question is how different "under the hood" they actually are, whether Jupiter-X/m are subsets of Fantom, architecturally. Not an important factor, just a question of curiosity on my part.
I think the ZEN-core is the engine, it's a synthesis canvas. And it's functions vary depending on which hardware it's adapted to. I'm pretty sure that the models are made to be as authentic as possible. The Jupiter-Mx demos really show that in the SonicState video. The character of the synth models was obviously recognizable to me.
Old 9th September 2019
  #355
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CasimirsBlake's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by realtrance View Post
.... and I remain the sad hold-out for an Alpha Juno Boutique.....
After the initial, and somewhat lasting, good impressions I have of my SH-01A... I'm still finding situations where the USB power is causing noise issues with OTHER gear I have connected to the same MIDI interface!!

So now I have to say I'd much rather have a desktop rack Behringer clone of the Alpha than another Boutique.

USB power and audio were two things that were never meant to go anywhere near each other...
Old 9th September 2019
  #356
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robinkle View Post
I think the ZEN-core is the engine, it's a synthesis canvas. And it's functions vary depending on which hardware it's adapted to. I'm pretty sure that the models are made to be as authentic as possible. The Jupiter-Mx demos really show that in the SonicState video. The character of the synth models was obviously recognizable to me.
Okay, cool -- that only complicates my future.....

The usual Gearslutz motto: "You must have both!"
Old 9th September 2019
  #357
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CasimirsBlake View Post
After the initial, and somewhat lasting, good impressions I have of my SH-01A... I'm still finding situations where the USB power is causing noise issues with OTHER gear I have connected to the same MIDI interface!!

So now I have to say I'd much rather have a desktop rack Behringer clone of the Alpha than another Boutique.

USB power and audio were two things that were never meant to go anywhere near each other...
Yeah, I understand some folks run into that -- I haven't, in any way that matters to me, at least.

Think I'll rest happy with the JU-06A; it sounds like it's got the bottom of the Juno 6, and the Alpha Juno was basically a retread of that a few years later anyways.

So.... there's my Alpha Juno! Done!
Old 10th September 2019
  #358
Played the new Fantom for 30 minutes at GC. Cloud is better in every way. All my posts i feel are valid. That's all i will say. hope they add the juno 60 to the cloud, that would be awesome.

DF
Old 10th September 2019
  #359
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jbuonacc's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Disease Factory View Post
Played the new Fantom for 30 minutes at GC. Cloud is better in every way. All my posts i feel are valid. That's all i will say. hope they add the juno 60 to the cloud, that would be awesome.
of course it is, that's what the System-8 is for. they make no claims otherwise, nobody thinks this will be as good as ACB. hopefully there's an upgraded System-8mkII on the way. i'd be pretty surprised if there wasn't.
Old 10th September 2019
  #360
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbuonacc View Post
of course it is, that's what the System-8 is for. they make no claims otherwise, nobody thinks this will be as good as ACB. hopefully there's an upgraded System-8mkII on the way. i'd be pretty surprised if there wasn't.
I hope the cloud we get a jup 6, and a system 8 upgrade and a juno 60, and the sh5. And hell, the fantom XR or JV 5080. This would make me very happy.

With an i9 laptop or cpu, the cloud can get you way further.

For live? the fantom is so heavy, wow its really a beast. A korg m3 with a radias, and a controller i think is still best for live shows as far as workstations go. The m3 allows you to load akai sample libs and save them on usb.

DF
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