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New Roland Synths Launch - Abbey Road, London, 29 August 2019
Old 8th September 2019
  #301
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maisonvague's Avatar
 

Wow. The JUPITER-Xm looks really slick.

Until I’ve heard more from this baby, I remain optimistic.

A robust, portable, battery-powered, mini-Jupiter jam station with built-in speakers.

Awesome.

I love the design and concept of this machine.

Old 8th September 2019
  #302
Quote:
Originally Posted by maisonvague View Post
Wow. The JUPITER-Xm looks really slick.

Until I’ve heard more from this baby, I remain optimistic.

A robust, portable, battery-powered, mini-Jupiter jam station with built-in speakers.

Awesome.

I love the design and concept of this machine.

It looks great. it sounds meh. All the demos i have heard. WTF put the acb tech in it for gods sake. The system 8 sounds better to my ears..

DF
Old 8th September 2019
  #303
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeHayduke View Post
If you think they sound better than their originals that's fine, but that's not what you said, you gave them a pat on the back for delivering fun-factor and immediacy.

Fwiw., I share Disease Factory's opinion than most modern pop productions sound like ****.

PS: I have plenty of talent and live and studio experience + I like my stuff to sound good and a pleasure to listen to. That strawman about 'talent' that makes gear irrelevant, please stop it, it's lame and not professional.. Without talent the gear is pretty irrelevant, but that's another story.
I don't think or care if they sound better than the originals; the fact is- they sound good enough to get the job done when you know how. The truth is, I know how to enhance the sound quality of any kind of sound (like many many many people can) and I have the professional hardware and software to do it.

Just because I own an OB-6 (which I love) doesn't mean I don't know the value of a workstation when it comes to writing and producing songs man.

And if you think your ears are as good now as they were 30 years ago, well the chances are very slim-you're human, not a robot.

Straw man argument? Like I said, the truth hurts- but it's still the truth.

You could give two skilled people a drum machine and a sampler and ask both to make a song using pre-selected samples; that doesn't mean they will both make great music that has mass appeal. Both have skill- meaning they know how to use the gear, but the one with the skill, vision and the creative talent will be the clear winner. If making great music was easy, everyone would be doing it.

Technical or musical skill does not automatically guarantee creative talent, and a lot of people who think they're talented are unfortunately delusional, or lost in their own hype.

Hate on modern pop/dance/rnb all you want but some of us make a living making people dance and have a good time, and we feel good about that.

Last edited by TRSC; 8th September 2019 at 02:50 PM..
Old 8th September 2019
  #304
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maisonvague's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Disease Factory View Post
It looks great. it sounds meh. All the demos i have heard. WTF put the acb tech in it for gods sake. The system 8 sounds better to my ears..

DF
Well, as I said earlier, I won’t pass judgement on the sound quality until I’ve been able to play one myself. So I can’t counter your “meh” assessment with an informed opinion at this time.

I will say, however, that the sounds I heard towards the end of the Gattobus video are more than adequate for the way I’m planning to use it. I'll even go so far as to say they sounded good to me (those toward the end).

That Jupiter Xm @ Knob con 2019 video, on the other hand, is useless to me. It’s just someone walking up to a synth, surfing a few presets and pressing some buttons.

I need more info than that. A lot more.
Old 8th September 2019
  #305
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GeorgeHayduke's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by TRSC View Post
I don't think or care if they sound better than the originals; the fact is- they sound good enough to get the job done when you know how. ..
Here you go again with your ridiculous strawman. I know 'how' mate, trust me.

'Good enough to get the job done', huh? That's what you want from Roland? Suit yourself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TRSC View Post
The truth is, I know how to enhance the sound quality of any kind of sound (like many many many people can) and I have the professional hardware and software to do it. ..
An efx bath to hide a weak synth certainly gets 'a' job done, but it's not how I roll, mate, it's not how I do 'my job'.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TRSC View Post
And if you think your ears are as good now as they were 30 years ago, well the chances are very slim-you're human, not a robot. ..
What the hell are you talking about? I didn't own a synth 30 years.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TRSC View Post
Straw man argument? Like I said, the truth hurts- but it's still the truth. ..
Truth hurts mate, the new stuff ain't as good as the old stuff. However, some ANALOG synth makers have been succesful in creating great sounding instruments for the modern age. I'm not talking about Roland..

Quote:
Originally Posted by TRSC View Post
..
Technical or musical skill does not automatically guarantee creative talent, and a lot of people who think they're talented are unfortunately delusional, or lost in their own hype. .
Wow, you just can stop yourself, can you?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TRSC View Post
..
Hate on modern pop/dance/rnb all you want but some of us make a living making people dance and have a good time, and we feel good about that.
Ahh, did I step on a toe or something? Is that you making that **** I hear on the radio? Then I've got some very basic tips for ya'.

Fwiw., I make music people dance to too, but I'm not going for the fast buck. I take pride in what I do.
Old 8th September 2019
  #306
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GeorgeHayduke's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Disease Factory View Post
Amen..

I love dance music. I make industrial/Techno/goth/EDM. Its not for everyone, but I too love making people dance. In fact at our shows, they dance. Its amazing.

DF
Yea, I'm more techno/house when I'm doing 'dancy' music, also with vocals. Watching people dance to it definitly made my newest stuff more clubby than when I started writing the songs, it's addicting to be able to move the crowd with a good groove.
Old 8th September 2019
  #307
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeHayduke View Post
Ehh, and the chance that these things will be improved to actual sound analog are what? I would say the chance is probably zero, at least too small to mention.


It's a bit sad though, isn't it? Instruments that are supposed to be advancements yet clearly sound less good than their 30 year old originals. Isn't that kind of silly? What's the point, really? Immediacy and fun-factor are adjectives I'd use to describe some gadget that gets binned because it wasn't really a true crafted instrument. What about sound? It's for music.
Oh hey, you're back! Sorry for our contretemps of awhile ago, glad to see you posting again.
Old 8th September 2019
  #308
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeHayduke View Post
Here you go again with your ridiculous strawman. I know 'how' mate, trust me.

'Good enough to get the job done', huh? That's what you want from Roland? Suit yourself.


An efx bath to hide a weak synth certainly gets 'a' job done, but it's not how I roll, mate, it's not how I do 'my job'.


What the hell are you talking about? I didn't own a synth 30 years.


Truth hurts mate, the new stuff ain't as good as the old stuff. However, some ANALOG synth makers have been succesful in creating great sounding instruments for the modern age. I'm not talking about Roland..


Wow, you just can stop yourself, can you?


Ahh, did I step on a toe or something? Is that you making that **** I hear on the radio? Then I've got some very basic tips for ya'.

Fwiw., I make music people dance to too, but I'm not going for the fast buck. I take pride in what I do.

I'll just say this-I've met people like you; you think you know how it all works, and you have all the answers, but we both know you don't know half of what you think you know when it comes to making great songs, and you certainly don't know how to make great modern songs. You're good, but not good enough. You need to be great. It's not that you hate it so much- you just know you can't do it, and it burns inside. I've met people who wanted to work with me- thought their music was 'cutting edge' and when I heard it, my partners and I immediately knew it was dated and irrelevant for the present time, but he didn't- he thought he had something unique and fresh...we let him down easy and declined his services. You're that guy dude- a narcissistic, grumpy person for whatever reason.

Do you really think I consider Roland the be-all-end-all for music production lol? My point is simply this; the new Fantom has multiple options to help make something great- IF you know how. It's one tool in the toolbox- just one tool, but it offers a ****load of creative options for song creation. When I track it through my rack, anything I send through and the routing options I have, will give me any texture I want.
You are clearly stuck in the 80's man. Hell, I love Neve sound and design but I use Portico II's these days because most music technology evolves for the better- even analog and digital synths- yes, it's true lol! And what makes you think I'd use just the stock sounds and efx on the Fantom lol?
Tell the 80's I said hello!
Old 8th September 2019
  #309
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Let's all steer clear of ad hominem attacks, please. George has strong opinions but I'd rather hear them than not. I often disagree with much of what he and Disease Factory say, but they're just expressing the way they see things, and that's great.

I come from a very different background and hear things differently, and have always loved Roland sound, old or new. There's little I hate out there; only hate itself.
Old 8th September 2019
  #310
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maisonvague's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by realtrance View Post
Let's all steer clear of ad hominem attacks, please.
Yeah. And while we’re at it, maybe we could also cut back a little on the snark?

Quote:
I come from a very different background and hear things differently, and have always loved Roland sound, old or new. There's little I hate out there; only hate itself.
I feel the same. I even have a soft spot still for my old MC-303.

Anyway, going back to that Tomita patch… yes, that was the one! It sounded almost identical to the original patch which, I'm pretty sure, I first heard in his arrangement of Holst's The Planets.

I’d love to know if that was sampled or synthesized with the JUPITER-Xm.
Old 8th September 2019
  #311
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I think it was also in his interpretation of Debussy, in "Snowflakes are Dancing."
Old 8th September 2019
  #312
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maisonvague's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by realtrance View Post
I think it was also in his interpretation of Debussy, in "Snowflakes are Dancing."
Yes. He definitely used it more than once.
Old 8th September 2019
  #313
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maisonvague View Post
Yes. He definitely used it more than once.
This whole album:



It was the soundtrack of my teenage years!
Old 8th September 2019
  #314
Gear Addict
 

Looks like time to stop making fun of Roland for a while. Impressive launch of several cool items.
Old 8th September 2019
  #315
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by TRSC View Post
I'll just say this-I've met people like you; you think you know how it all works, and you have all the answers, but we both know you don't know half of what you think you know when it comes to making great songs, and you certainly don't know how to make great modern songs. You're good, but not good enough. You need to be great. It's not that you hate it so much- you just know you can't do it, and it burns inside. I've met people who wanted to work with me- thought their music was 'cutting edge' and when I heard it, my partners and I immediately knew it was dated and irrelevant for the present time, but he didn't- he thought he had something unique and fresh...we let him down easy and declined his services. You're that guy dude- a narcissistic, grumpy person for whatever reason.

Do you really think I consider Roland the be-all-end-all for music production lol? My point is simply this; the new Fantom has multiple options to help make something great- IF you know how. It's one tool in the toolbox- just one tool, but it offers a ****load of creative options for song creation. When I track it through my rack, anything I send through and the routing options I have, will give me any texture I want.
You are clearly stuck in the 80's man. Hell, I love Neve sound and design but I use Portico II's these days because most music technology evolves for the better- even analog and digital synths- yes, it's true lol! And what makes you think I'd use just the stock sounds and efx on the Fantom lol?
Tell the 80's I said hello!
(laughs)

This place is better than Television sometimes.
Old 8th September 2019
  #316
Lives for gear
 

James Purvis from Roland posted this at YouTube:

“The Fantom has 4 BMC chips, meaning that is has by far the most powerful modelling of any sound processor we have ever made. The V-Piano modelling sounds are built in, and due to it having more chips, the modelling is actually more sophisticated and expressive than ever before. All of the synth sounds are completely brand new, as ZEN-Core, which only feature in these new Fantoms. In addition, the new DSP and audio conversion is much higher in quality, so the quality of the playback is exceptionally clear. So even if you play an older sound, it will not sound the same as previous models as they do not have the audio conversion clarity that the Fantoms have.”

So I guess the sound engine in the Fantom is not the same as the sound engine in the Jupiter X, Xm, MC-707 or 101, and Zen-CORE is only found in the Fantom line.

If this has already been established in this thread, I apologize, carry on.
Old 8th September 2019
  #317
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robinkle's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by ljefe View Post
James Purvis from Roland posted this at YouTube:

“The Fantom has 4 BMC chips, meaning that is has by far the most powerful modelling of any sound processor we have ever made. The V-Piano modelling sounds are built in, and due to it having more chips, the modelling is actually more sophisticated and expressive than ever before. All of the synth sounds are completely brand new, as ZEN-Core, which only feature in these new Fantoms. In addition, the new DSP and audio conversion is much higher in quality, so the quality of the playback is exceptionally clear. So even if you play an older sound, it will not sound the same as previous models as they do not have the audio conversion clarity that the Fantoms have.”

So I guess the sound engine in the Fantom is not the same as the sound engine in the Jupiter X, Xm, MC-707 or 101, and Zen-CORE is only found in the Fantom line.

If this has already been established in this thread, I apologize, carry on.
According to the specs on roland.com the 707,101- Jupiter-X/Xm all use ZEN-Core.
Old 8th September 2019
  #318
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robinkle View Post
According to the specs on roland.com All of the launch subjects use ZEN-Core.
Well I hope you’re right, the site is right, and Mr. Purvis is wrong. Not that I really understand the differences between all of Roland’s sound engines, tbh.
Old 8th September 2019
  #319
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robinkle's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by ljefe View Post
Well I hope you’re right, the site is right, and Mr. Purvis is wrong. Not that I really understand the differences between all of Roland’s sound engines, tbh.
Could it be that he is talking about in comparison to previous fantoms?
Old 8th September 2019
  #320
Great to see such fine instruments available. The xm looks interesting.

Thanks @ Sniperschool - great pics and coverage
Old 8th September 2019
  #321
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robinkle View Post
Could it be that he is talking about in comparison to previous fantoms?
Yes, he must be.
Old 8th September 2019
  #322
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jbuonacc's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by ljefe View Post
Well I hope you’re right, the site is right, and Mr. Purvis is wrong. Not that I really understand the differences between all of Roland’s sound engines, tbh.
the MC-707 Tone synth engine is Zen-Core (parameter list, pg. 61).
Old 9th September 2019
  #323
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dr_dohh View Post
Hey guys not sure if anyone covered this already, but does anyone know if the Jupiter-xm just the smaller version of Jupiter-x? same voice count/polyphony but just different buttons and less keys? no differences otherwise?
Correct, they're the same on the inside.

I'll note that Xm uses an external power supply or battery power, whereas the X has an internal power supply.

Other than that the differences are what you noted: the interface and keyboard.
Old 9th September 2019
  #324
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ljefe View Post
James Purvis from Roland posted this at YouTube:

“The Fantom has 4 BMC chips, meaning that is has by far the most powerful modelling of any sound processor we have ever made. The V-Piano modelling sounds are built in, and due to it having more chips, the modelling is actually more sophisticated and expressive than ever before. All of the synth sounds are completely brand new, as ZEN-Core, which only feature in these new Fantoms. In addition, the new DSP and audio conversion is much higher in quality, so the quality of the playback is exceptionally clear. So even if you play an older sound, it will not sound the same as previous models as they do not have the audio conversion clarity that the Fantoms have.”

So I guess the sound engine in the Fantom is not the same as the sound engine in the Jupiter X, Xm, MC-707 or 101, and Zen-CORE is only found in the Fantom line.

If this has already been established in this thread, I apologize, carry on.
4 BMCs? That's a new record. SYSTEM-8 uses 3 and that was the highest I was aware of.

What video exactly?
Old 9th September 2019
  #325
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StarfishMusic View Post
Is it a filter BANK though? Bank means to me at least 4 simultaneous analog filters for polyphony with analog filters on several voices. One analog filter on the tail end of summed voices is a very different thing. It's very easy to find an external analog filter to run stuff through, or monophonic analog synths with one filter. Having polyphonic voices with their own filters is much rarer, especially on digital pcm samples. Seeing as the screenshot says analog filter singular it sounds like it's probably only one to me. One is just not very exciting and seems like a cheap token if that's the case.
You may have figured this out already but it's a stereo pair of filters with drive and three different kind of filters to pick from.

There aren't all that many stereo analog filters out there, and having it integrated is far more convenient and portable. It's a nice effect unit to have built-in.
Old 9th September 2019
  #326
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Anyone know anything about "Zenbeats"?

I found this on a Dutch report of the event (Googlish translation):
Zenbeats
Jeroen Ravesloot: 'What I can also report as news is that we are going to release September 17 with a program called Zenbeats. It is a tool for young musicians to build beats, to load samples, to make songs, with of course also the pattern mode and the arranger mode in it. In this way we will be fully compatible with everything, and it offers enormous possibilities with the Roland Cloud. '
It's the only mention of it I could find.
Old 9th September 2019
  #327
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ToyBox View Post
4 BMCs? That's a new record. SYSTEM-8 uses 3 and that was the highest I was aware of.

What video exactly?
It’s in the comments in reply to Instrumentalists Jade.

Old 9th September 2019
  #328
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maisonvague's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Disease Factory View Post
Ok finally heard the mc707 sounds good. Seems like roland needs to work on their presentation. I am starting to hear some decent sound now.


This is exactly why I like to wait a bit before passing judgement on synths.

First impressions can change.

I think Roland has staged a remarkable comeback here.

Not that they ever went away, really. But this new product line has woken a lot of sleeping wallets I think.

I’ll be getting something for sure—most likely a JUPITER-Xm. But those new Fantoms. Wow.
Old 9th September 2019
  #329
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jbuonacc's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Disease Factory View Post
Sadly, korg m3 with radias, kronos i think they sound better to me.

DF
until the next video you see changes your mind again? ffs, just stop talking.
Old 9th September 2019
  #330
< guys - be nice these are synths and you're arguing about personal impressions (which is fine, just keep it polite please) thanks! >
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