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New Roland Synths Launch - Abbey Road, London, 29 August 2019
Old 8th September 2019
  #271
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maisonvague's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
But in short, I had just happily used two Massive X sounds in my tracks, alongside my expensive analog synths.
So I don't know.
Great story. The takeaway here?

Follow your own muse.

The internet is both a blessing and curse.

It’s a blessing in that you have a lot more access to information than in the past, but a curse in that you also have more access to opinion.

There is an over abundance of opinion on the internet.
Old 8th September 2019
  #272
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
Ha, ha, you are actually making my point for me.
We have entered a world of audio detectives searching for flaws.
You've written several posts RAVING about Massive X and comparing it's amazingness to what you see as poor quality Roland synths.

First context - I write and record music for a living.
Being an old massive owner and user, within a few days of Massive X becoming available I upgraded and downloaded it. I was working on a couple of tracks for my new EP so I ended up scrolling through a few of the Massive X presets. Found a couple I liked, edited them a bit with a few tonal tweaks here and there, then recorded the parts into Live and they ended up in the final mix of my tracks (about to be released).
A few days later I wanted to figure out something in Massive X, so I searched Youtube for some video tips on Massive X. What came back in the search results were a number of very popular videos by vloggers screaming about some flaws in massive X. Loudly warning viewers to not buy the synth. Claiming Native Instruments had f***ed up and also claiming NI had released Massive X knowing it was ass, and by implication knowingly ripped off their customers.
So watching through a couple of the videos it turned out you had to set Massive X to some kind of unreal setting - all filters open, all oscillators playing at the top of their range (or something like that), and if you strained you ear you might be able to hear something weird. Well I never could.
But in short, I had just happily used two Massive X sounds in my tracks, alongside my expensive analog synths.
So I don't know. If that's your gig, if that's how you attract viewers to your Youtube videos and therefore earn money from Google, you can probably find some flaw in ANY new product.
Indeed. You describe a type of person called a “cork sniffer”
Old 8th September 2019
  #273
Lives for gear
 

Btw the only reviewers I respect online are nick from sonic state, Stimming, and geosynths.
Old 8th September 2019
  #274
Well 'Stimming' makes music for a living - which is
Old 8th September 2019
  #275
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Disease Factory View Post
I have owned a jupiter 6, 8, mks 80, every juno. I can tell you this for certain, these do not even sound like them. No high fizz, no fidelity, the snap, and liquid filter, its not there.. Its like they cut the balls off these synths and put them in this digital world. I had the roland cloud and those too sounded weak and lame next to my deepmind.
I could see buying the Fantom. It looks efficient, it could improve my studio ergonomics, and might be a great machine for gigs. I'll wait to see what kind of deal I can get on the 6. There's a market for this. BTW, I am watching an awful demo right now, and it's not exactly wooing me. I think the funniest part was the look on Daniel Fisher's face when he said a "whopping 1.96GB of sample flash" and then you can see the words pass through his mind "well, that kind of sucks."

The interesting to me is what the first major OS update looks, and whether Yamaha updates the Montage for Winter NAMM. I'll watch this for the next six months. On a final note, Daniel's a solid musician.
Old 8th September 2019
  #276
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jbuonacc's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Disease Factory View Post
Still, it sounds meh, every thing i have heard so far on the net.

DF
use your f**ing imagination. this thing can sound like whatever you want it to. whatever you put into it.

you're supposed to be a professional, but you come off like a dumb child. you know better.

EDIT: (sorry, i was thinking about the MC-707.)
Old 8th September 2019
  #277
Quote:
Originally Posted by Disease Factory View Post
Good is like good tone, high res, like full sound, no holes no weir faintness or artifacts.
That's your definition of 'good'. Good is 100 different things to 100 different people.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Disease Factory View Post
Know what really sucks? I sold my jupiter 8 for 2500 with kenton midi kit to buy a modular that never stayed in tune. The next year jups went up to 4k, then 5 k, then 8k. I kick myself every day.
case in point. I have sold many classic poly synths that are now worth $$$. And yet modular is the number one tool in my studio. I use it for almost everything, everyday. What is 'good' for me isn't 'good' for you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Disease Factory View Post
The deepmind is great if you make your own sounds, the presets blow.
DF
Err, I know how to demo a synth for myself. Deepmind just has a plasticky tone to my ears, fizzy and clanky. I have a good knowledge of Juno synths, as well as many other classic polys, Deepmind just sounded like a cheap synth - which is exactly what it is. Not bagging on Behringer, I have also demoed many modern synths from Novation to Yamaha to Roland to Moog and I find most of them very bright and harsh sounding.
Old 8th September 2019
  #278
Quote:
Originally Posted by Disease Factory View Post
See bitching about masive x that costs $199, WOW

I think when i bitch about a $3000 workstation, i have a better case to make.


DF
You've been bitching about everything Roland makes, which includes a lot of $250 to $500 products.
Here you go moving the goal posts again.
Old 8th September 2019
  #279
Lives for gear
 
maisonvague's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Disease Factory View Post
So in the end, all these opinions are just us yelling about what we want. I don't care if anyone agrees or disagrees. I want what i want. That's it.
As it should be—especially in this business.

When the JUPITER-Xm was unveiled, I was (and still am) genuinely excited. I have a very specific use for it in mind.

But based on the comments on some of those videos posted at YouTube, it would seem I am very much in the minority regarding enthusiasm for the new Jupiters.

Fine. Whatever. At the end of day, whose opinion is most valuable to me anyway?

Why, my own! Of course!
Old 8th September 2019
  #280
As I said - that's fine, you don't like what you hear.... and you are also disappointed and frustrated. That's all understandable and reasonable.

I'm just saying you can't claim it's an empirical fact. Also, instead of trying to persuade everyone else you are right, just accept other people have different needs and definitions of 'good'.
Old 8th September 2019
  #281
Lives for gear
 

At most - the opinions of others (the entire world of others, truly) account for maybe 5% of some decision I making. Maybe 5%.

Like a dash of pepper in an entire meal.

At most.
Old 8th September 2019
  #282
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gentleclockdivid's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Disease Factory View Post
The deep mind can sound amazing, the presets kinda blow. I find it better than the juno 106 because of the more varied sounds it can make and fx. I like it when you play high the notes dont get dull they shine in a good way. Honestly, i like the deepmind more than the junos and the mks80. Not more than the jupiter 8 or 6. or the 4.

the ASM can sound so lush and pretty, and so harsh and metallic, its a wave table synth, the filters sound amazing, not all the sounds are good, but there are some that sounds stellar compared to this new dull roland stuff.

As far as the guy demoing the gear, please, he is showing off a saw tooth open filter sound, it sounds like ass and not because of him.. Gimme a break.



Again, nothing in this sounds astonishing, its dull, and the filters sounds bad to me... its so meh.. The pcm sounds are decent though, so are the drums.. but man.. this new VA engine, i am not into it. the lead at the end sounds terrible. this is what i am talking about... the va engine is WHACK. it reminds me of the integra 7, the supernatural VA engine was dull as well. i bet this is v2 of that...



Again the VA engine meh.

df
What makes you think you are hearing the V.A. engine and not the standard pcm engine + tvf filters ??
Bobby beats just auditions a preset , unable to know what kind of tones are used
NOt one demo so far shows the V.A. engine +v.a. filters in separation
Old 8th September 2019
  #283
In your opinion.
Old 8th September 2019
  #284
Lives for gear
 
maisonvague's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Disease Factory View Post
If they say they have the jupiter 8, junos in their products, why do all these demos seem worlds apart, like not even close.
Do you hear the tone, the bright resonance, the liquid filter, the lush huge sounds? That jupiter X sounds like dull trash compared to these demos of the jupiter 8 and juno 60.... Roland is misleading people, if they think that sounds like these synths, lies... not opinions...

Sorry... Roland failed at even remotely sounding like the package looks.

See. There is a point to all this....
Yes. To express your opinion.

In any case, I want to wait until I’ve actually auditioned a JUPITER-Xm personally before expressing my own opinion regarding its sound.

So, unfortunately, as things stand, I’m afraid I’m unable to counter your view that the JUPITER-Xm sounds like "dull trash".

Oh well. Such is life.

I will have my day in court. In due time.
Old 8th September 2019
  #285
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robinkle's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Disease Factory View Post
Damn right. If you like it, and how it sounds, tell why. And that's that. I'm not going to say your wrong.

I still have to demo it. Maybe its ok. maybe the presets just are not what i like.



A few ok sounds.. but still :( this is not mel torme



That is no jupiter 8. or 6, or juno. That is i dunno.



This is mel torme



YUP

If they say they have the jupiter 8, junos in their products, why do all these demos seem worlds apart, like not even close.
Do you hear the tone, the bright resonance, the liquid filter, the lush huge sounds? That jupiter X sounds like dull trash compared to these demos of the jupiter 8 and juno 60.... Roland is misleading people, if they think that sounds like these synths, lies... not opinions...

Sorry... Roland failed at even remotely sounding like the package looks.

See. There is a point to all this....

DF
I wouldn't jump to that conclusion unless there was a major difference in a A vs B comparison.

I'd say from what I hear from ACB vs Analog comparisons, that they sound the same to me, within the margin of error. Meaning the same model analog synth doesn't sound the same either. But the ACB version would sound almost indistinguishable to it's reference. The problem with ACB, is that it doesn't provide much extra polyphony because it requires alot from the CPU, but you do get the benefits of it being software.

Now that being said. The ZEN-Core engine, doesn't provide the same fidelity as ACB. But even if it's 1/4 of the fidelity, I'd say it would still be able to emulate the analog counterparts to the extent that you can call them modelled clones, making it a decent challenge in a blind test.

" That jupiter X sounds like dull trash compared to these demos of the jupiter 8 and juno 60". Doesn't matter. A to B comparison, or go home.
Old 8th September 2019
  #286
Lives for gear
 
gentleclockdivid's Avatar
 

Some new stuff in the zen core engine
-osc sync for V.a. and pcm sync waveforms
-pulse width modulation on NON square waveforms ( v.a. only )
-cross modulation
-click type/transient ( soft , hard , natural )

On the other hand , there is still no filter FM
Old 8th September 2019
  #287
TNC
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TNC's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Disease Factory View Post
Damn right. If you like it, and how it sounds, tell why. And that's that. I'm not going to say your wrong.

I still have to demo it. Maybe its ok. maybe the presets just are not what i like.



A few ok sounds.. but still :( this is not mel torme



That is no jupiter 8. or 6, or juno. That is i dunno.



This is mel torme



YUP

If they say they have the jupiter 8, junos in their products, why do all these demos seem worlds apart, like not even close.
Do you hear the tone, the bright resonance, the liquid filter, the lush huge sounds? That jupiter X sounds like dull trash compared to these demos of the jupiter 8 and juno 60.... Roland is misleading people, if they think that sounds like these synths, lies... not opinions...

Sorry... Roland failed at even remotely sounding like the package looks.

See. There is a point to all this....

DF
I don't want to derail the thread but because you posted a link a couple of pages ago and said u-he's Repro did it for you and here you're comparing Roland's VA's to the real analog, I was just wondering, does Repro sound like this to you? And I'm not saying it doesn't but since we're comparing VA's to what they're emulating:

Can you link me one Repro-1 demo that sounds like this?
Old 8th September 2019
  #288
Quote:
Originally Posted by Disease Factory View Post
oh man, just watch the videos its so damn obvious...

DF
I have no interest in the workstations or groove boxes, but the JU-06a demos were impressive to me, and delivered the sound I remembered from my Juno 60 (and the 106).
So I would buy an 06a over an actual Juno 60 or 106 if I needed that sound in my studio right now.
Old 8th September 2019
  #289
TNC
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TNC's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Disease Factory View Post
The roland sh2 vst, is good, the roland promars vst is good, the roland sh101 vst is good, the roland system 100 is good.. the cloud jp8k not good, juno cloud is ok, jx3p cloud is ok. look, some roland emulations are good, so far, not zen core.

This zen core demos on youtube IS NOT GOOD!

DF
I would say that the Juno boutique and cloud are just as good, I think.
Old 8th September 2019
  #290
Quote:
Originally Posted by TNC View Post
I would say that the Juno boutique and cloud are just as good, I think.
just as good as what, i was saying they were good. the zen core is not good from these online demos..

DF
Old 8th September 2019
  #291
TNC
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TNC's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Disease Factory View Post
just as good as what, i was saying they were good. the zen core is not good from these online demos..

DF
Just as good as every other good emulation today.
Old 8th September 2019
  #292
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maisonvague's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Disease Factory View Post
The roland sh2 vst, is good, the roland promars vst is good, the roland sh101 vst is good, the roland system 100 is good.. the cloud jp8k not good, juno cloud is ok, jx3p cloud is ok. look, some roland emulations are good, so far, not zen core.

This zen core demos on youtube IS NOT GOOD!
Since we’re freely dispensing opinions here, I’m not particularly impressed by the Promars plugout. For me, it falls significantly short of the authentic sound of a Promars. The SH-2 plugout, on the other hand, is more convincing.

I can actually envision using the SH-2 plugout as a practical substitute for the real hardware. But not the Promars plugout. I suspect one of the reasons we haven't seen a Jupiter-4 plugout yet is because Roland knows the Promars plug isn't quite up to the level yet of some of the others and they're still working on the code.

Still, neither of them impress me to the same degree as Repro, which I’ve found to be a phenomenal emulation of the Prophets. I only wish it would run better on my system.
Old 8th September 2019
  #293
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GeorgeHayduke's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
Having watched Roland threads for many, many years @ Gearslutz , pretty much every time most Gearslutz posters 'dump' on the product.
That's kind of my point. It has become a habit. ...
Well, Roland once again fails to deliver what everyone is asking for. The comments come downstream Roland's miserable choices.

When I saw this announcement, I thought, woa, at least one of these things must be analog. But no.

What has Roland done to make people comment differently this time? Nothing. The finger points at Roland imo, sorry if you're tired of the negative comments, but they reflect what posters think, so maybe you're just gonna have to close your eyes.
Old 8th September 2019
  #294
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by psionic11 View Post
But how do you make beats on it?
Exactly...the hardest part of producing is finishing what you start. Roland has greatly narrowed that gap of productivity with the new Fantom.

For collectors and noodle nerds, there are all kinds of instruments to choose from but for working musicians and producers- the Fantom is pretty much a done-deal and in the studio yesterday because of it's amazing workflow- for making actual songs to be released.
Old 8th September 2019
  #295
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GeorgeHayduke's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by TRSC View Post
Well, it's still in it's infancy and improvements could be added,..
Ehh, and the chance that these things will be improved to actual sound analog are what? I would say the chance is probably zero, at least too small to mention.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TRSC View Post
but even if they're not this will still be a big seller because of it's immediacy and fun-factor when making tunes.
It's a bit sad though, isn't it? Instruments that are supposed to be advancements yet clearly sound less good than their 30 year old originals. Isn't that kind of silly? What's the point, really? Immediacy and fun-factor are adjectives I'd use to describe some gadget that gets binned because it wasn't really a true crafted instrument. What about sound? It's for music.
Old 8th September 2019
  #296
Here for the gear
Hey guys not sure if anyone covered this already, but does anyone know if the Jupiter-xm just the smaller version of Jupiter-x? same voice count/polyphony but just different buttons and less keys? no differences otherwise?
Old 8th September 2019
  #297
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Disease Factory View Post
Easy, pair it with a mc101, and save a truckload of money and get the best of both worlds and save a ton of cash, the drums on the zen core sound ok, its the synths that i hear that sound so dam dull and lifeless. I am not bashing for no reason, i really want to like it, i really do. I wish someone would make like a demo of the zen core show off the power of the filters and osc, and see if it can sound lush and bright or dark and smooth like all synths should.



See here, listen to the synth engine at 15:30.. it speaks for its self.

DF
Are you serious lol? Give that dude a blank slate instrument and he'd only be able to make child scribblings on his best day. Not hating-it's just the way it really is.
Old 8th September 2019
  #298
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GeorgeHayduke's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Gaia View Post
..what they have done is very customer focused by making what they've done before more immediately available than ever. ...
If I wanted to read vapid marketing lines I wouldn't think I should find them at a forum, more like in a sales brochure..
Old 8th September 2019
  #299
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeHayduke View Post
Ehh, and the chance that these things will be improved to actual sound analog are what? I would say the chance is probably zero, at least too small to mention.


It's a bit sad though, isn't it? Instruments that are supposed to be advancements yet clearly sound less good than their 30 year old originals. Isn't that kind of silly? What's the point, really? Immediacy and fun-factor are adjectives I'd use to describe some gadget that gets binned because it wasn't really a true crafted instrument. What about sound? It's for music.
Not everyone shares your opinion on what sounds 'good'. Professional producers will 100% use the Fantom to make hits. Why? Because they can.

The Tanzbar 2 demos online sound like total ****, but in the right hands it sounds completely different. In the right hands is the key phrase- which applies to the Fantom as well. The tools are there to create, but if you don't have the vision or talent, most just complain about what it can't do or how bad it sounds. The truth hurts, but it's still the truth.
Old 8th September 2019
  #300
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GeorgeHayduke's Avatar
 

If you think they sound better than their originals that's fine, but that's not what you said, you gave them a pat on the back for delivering fun-factor and immediacy.

Fwiw., I share Disease Factory's opinion than most modern pop productions sound like ****.

PS: I have plenty of talent and live and studio experience + I like my stuff to sound good and a pleasure to listen to. That strawman about 'talent' that makes gear irrelevant, please stop it, it's lame and not professional.. Without talent the gear is pretty irrelevant, but that's another story.
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