The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
Hydrasynth
Old 4th September 2019
  #181
Lives for gear
 
Analog Rob Lowe's Avatar
Looks at Pro 2 with raised eyebrow
Old 4th September 2019
  #182
Lives for gear
 
Bignatius's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Analog Rob Lowe View Post
Looks at Pro 2 with raised eyebrow
I had a similar thought earlier...

It will be particularly interesting (now, in light of this new synth) to see what's next from Dave and crew, since a replacement for the Pro 2 and Prophet 12 seema most likely to be their next offering.

The Hydrasynth has raised the bar in a few ways, at an outstanding price, too. I find it nearly impossible to believe Sequential even can or would release a Pro 2 replacement for under $2000.
Old 4th September 2019
  #183
Lives for gear
 
Coorec's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bignatius View Post
I find it nearly impossible to believe Sequential even can or would release a Pro 2 replacement for under $2000.
Rev 2 is well under 2k.

Considering that
... housing, keyboard, knobs and connections are the majority of material costs (the electronics should only vary a handful of Dollars)..
... also assembly, calibration and storage should be around the same ...


i dont see a reason why any DSI synth has to cost more, unless of course some money has to be shared with other people who have a hand in it.
Old 4th September 2019
  #184
Lives for gear
 
DrJustice's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtFluids View Post
Ahh, yeah. And personally, I have no idea. I thought that Markus Fuller found custom Roland chips inside. The jury is still out on whether they were DSP or FPGA.
My money is on a DSP running the same C or C++ code as the Roland cloud VSTi synths. It would be a lot simpler for Roland to do it that way rather than using FPGA's "just because."
Because they sure as hell aren't directly running FPGA logic in those VSTi's.
The ESC/BMC are DSPs (or SOCs). There's a long list of reason why that's probable, and Boss has said themselves that they're DSPs. The info has been posted several times here on GS, including ref.s to BOSS' own explanation.
Old 4th September 2019
  #185
Lives for gear
 
asynchro_nous's Avatar
 

Watching the Fluxwithit vids and the filter modeling sounds really great on this.
Old 4th September 2019
  #186
Gear Maniac
 
goodweather's Avatar
Congratulations to ASM for this very nice synth!

I have been watching all the videos from YT yesterday evening (esp. the one from loopop going in many details)
Very nice layout, UI, features...

The module selection buttons with the signal flow: reminds me the Matrix 12 / Xpander panel, no? Just great and easy to use.

Will be a nice companion to my Pro 2. When I made the Pro 2 editor and librarian I used buttons with led rings as on my Novation SL25 controller. Now I get a synth with that concept. Great!
OLED screens as on Pro 2. Excellent as well.
Modulation wise, as rich as the Pro 2 that raised the bar very high. Of course here with poly aftertouch and ribbon controller.

Questions to [email protected]:
A first one: keeping the voice count at 8, would it be possible to add some multi-timbrality (I mean 3 timbres at once) by software?
I'm thinking about having 1 voice for the ribbon controller, then 7 voices on the keyboard either with dynamic voice allocation between the 2 timbres or fixed (user defined through a menu) allocation by timbre. The 2 timbres could be split (arp and pad for example) or layered (maybe missing 1 voice when using 4 keys at once then).

Then another one: will it be possible to create our own waves and load them into the synth through the editor/librarian?

And sorry for a third one: can you describe the way it will work when pairing with the module? Of course could be played with 2 different sounds at 8 voices each and CV/Modulations going to the module with Midi (including ploy-aftertouch info?). Or can it be played with 1 sound 16 voices (selection in the menu? need to load the sound twice or is it working as the Minilogue XD keyboard and module?).

Once again, congrats for this nice synth! Looking forward to try and buy it here in Europe
Old 4th September 2019
  #187
I’ll address a few things. I forget where I heard roland was using fpga but have heard it numerous times, if I am incorrect on this my apologies. Could have sworn it was direct from Roland at one of the various trade shows, but regardless the fact remains fpga has nothing to do with whether something aliases or not.

2)

< deleted by moderator - There seems to be a misunderstanding: you said in a later post you're not a spokesperson for this manufacturer. However, to keep this thread on topic (and not branching out into critique of other synths, I'm deleting this part of your post. In General: For anyone involved with development and manufacture of synths please check our rules here: https://www.gearslutz.com/board/faq....q_dew_faq_item Thank you for understanding. Peace >

Imho my favorite filter in the hydrasynth is the “3-lr” which is modeled directly on my own fritz threeler filter. We then further refined its levels and I have to say it sounds beefy and amazing. Also... NO stepping. If you know of me, you know that is a huge pet peeve of mine.
Going into this synth the focus was never to emulate analog... it was to be a bad ass digital synth that uses all the great aspects of digital without compromising to fit the analog VA mode. That being said.. I’m a filter freak. So I scrutinized the hell out of these filters during the voicing process and the team was up to it and pleasant. I am used to getting push back when I say something like “it needs to be smoother” or the resonance doesn’t have the proper amount of break up.” With replies like “well we can only spend so much time...” “we don’t have enough cpu for that” etc. I got none of that here. It was more along the lines of “let me see what I can do” and “ you are right let’s try this” and the next week or two I’d have a new model that sounded stunning. This process went on for months. I am VERY happy with the filter results.
It’s been super hectic lately (and will be for some time) so I’ll make sure to get some more filter demos up.

P.s. someone noted that my videos were in mono, they were not shot this way HOWEVER in a huge sad blunder I originally uploaded a few of those videos to the wrong YouTube account and then deleted the original file, realizing this I had to download the video from YouTube and reupload it ... maybe this messed up the audio so I will have to go listen to em today but they DHOULD be stereo. Either way I’ll shoot more.

Last edited by Reptil; 8th September 2019 at 06:23 PM.. Reason: -
Old 4th September 2019
  #188
Lives for gear
 
Analog Rob Lowe's Avatar
Pro 2 filters are , plus the on board sequencer . If Hydra can equal the its filters with poly, after touch, full ribbon, much expanded wave source for 2/3rd’s the price I may break. Love the wave display OLED and knob LED’s
as well always wished the P2 had this. Can’t wait to hear more filter examples
Old 4th September 2019
  #189
Lives for gear
 
DrJustice's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flux302 View Post
I’ll address a few things. I forget where I heard roland was using fpga but have heard it numerous times, if I am incorrect on this my apologies. Could have sworn it was direct from Roland at one of the various trade shows, but regardless the fact remains fpga has nothing to do with whether something aliases or not.
Here is one reference: https://www.boss.info/us/community/b...rs_group/1632/
Quote:
Powered by a new ultra-high-speed DSP chip developed by BOSS, the GT-100 delivers amp tones that truly sound and feel like the real deal, with presence, fatness, and sweet dynamic response that really inspires. The GT-100 is also loaded with a ton of effects, of course, and they benefit from the enhanced DSP as well.
...
The under-the-hood secret behind the GT-100’s incredible tone is the ESC2 DSP, a super-powerful digital signal processor developed by BOSS. Unlike the off-the-shelf chips used in competing gear, the ESC2 was built specifically for music applications—and COSM algorithms in particular—allowing BOSS engineers to leverage its power in ways that would be impossible with ready-made processors. ESC2 is also incredibly speedy, delivering a sixfold performance increase over the processors used in previous generations.
Companies design various custom chips all the time, but not FPGAs since that would be counter to the whole point of FPGAs (and it's super expensive to make FPGAs and the required tools). Also in the case of Roland/BOSS there are a number of reasons why they'd use DSPs, one of which is that they want the same code/algorithms to run on several platforms.

And yes, aliasing is not determined by what kind of chips algorithms are run on. However, FPGAs lend themselves nicely to highly oversampled algorithms which is a brute force way of avoiding or reducing aliasing.

The "FPGA vs DSP, including what are the ESCs/BMCs" thing is raised with increasing frequency here on GS - is it time for a sticky on the subject soon?


Oh, and the Hydrarsynth is quite exciting!
Old 4th September 2019
  #190
Lives for gear
It's true that some of the sounds coming out of this synth are "vst in a box". But i think that's not the point. I have the VPS Avenger and UVI Falcon which take me to sonic exploration journeys.
But looking at the Hydrasynth videos it seems just huge amounts of fun performing with it. Although different than the Matriarch sonically, it seems both are instruments with which you can do "mini performances" without being dependant on any other external gear. If you program a patch with an interesting arp going on, set the macro knobs before hand to do some mutate duties, assign the ribbon and polytouch, use the mod wheel and make intelegent use of the fx - than you can perform with this synth or jam at home with it for hours - which is something i can't do with my vst's in such intuitive manner even with a sophisticated controller like Komplete Kontrol mk2.
Old 4th September 2019
  #191
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flux302 View Post
That being said.. I’m a filter freak. So I scrutinized the hell out of these filters during the voicing process and the team was up to it and pleasant. I am used to getting push back when I say something like “it needs to be smoother” or the resonance doesn’t have the proper amount of break up.” With replies like “well we can only spend so much time...” “we don’t have enough cpu for that” etc. I got none of that here. It was more along the lines of “let me see what I can do” and “ you are right let’s try this” and the next week or two I’d have a new model that sounded stunning. This process went on for months. I am VERY happy with the filter results.
Sounds like ASM has a great team.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Glen Darcey
The interesting thing on the filters is how Chen made them. His background is first in math but then also AI. So we made recordings of the filters we liked, with a bunch of combinations of cutoff and resonance settings and he wrote a machine-learning program that analyzed the audio files and then recreated the profiles of them. So our filters are made via his Neural Network Filter modeling.

Chen didn’t stop us and kept saying he could do whatever we asked.
Old 4th September 2019
  #192
Lives for gear
GD:

One trick you can do is process external audio in the Hydrasynth.

Since the Mod ins can take audio range signals, and we have a Ring mod with selectable inputs, you could choose Mod in as Ring Mod source, set the Ringmod depth to 0 and then turn up the Ringmod in the mixer…and you have audio input to the mixer.

Old 4th September 2019
  #193
Lives for gear
 

Have not yet seen any vid, but can someone explain what you can do with the ribbon strip?
Old 4th September 2019
  #194
Gear Head
 



Old 4th September 2019
  #195
Very smart of them to be silent until they can actually ship units. Refreshing change from the recent norm. I expect they are going to sell out of the initial run.
Old 4th September 2019
  #196
Gear Guru
 
zerocrossing's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bignatius View Post
I had a similar thought earlier...

It will be particularly interesting (now, in light of this new synth) to see what's next from Dave and crew, since a replacement for the Pro 2 and Prophet 12 seema most likely to be their next offering.

The Hydrasynth has raised the bar in a few ways, at an outstanding price, too. I find it nearly impossible to believe Sequential even can or would release a Pro 2 replacement for under $2000.
My Pro 2 is in no danger of being replaced. Not by this synth, at least. Remember, in the Pro 2, all 4 oscs are mod sources and you have that amazing tuned feedback and distortion. The osc drive effect is per voice distortion. You won’t be able to get that aggressive with the Hydrasynth.
Old 4th September 2019
  #197
Gear Guru
 
EvilDragon's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by MPrinsen View Post
Have not yet seen any vid, but can someone explain what you can do with the ribbon strip?
Stuff!
Old 4th September 2019
  #198
Deleted 0fc8128
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flux302 View Post
2) I’m a tad triggered so I’m gonna say it... I can stand the prophet 12 filters. I sold mine and I RARELY don’t regret selling a synth... but I don’t regret selling my p12 at all. Those filters (coupled with the horrid dsi knob resolution thing where they step in semitones) never once made me jump up and say “that’s that analog filter sound I love!” . I’ll take the hydrasynth filters all day. I really wish the p12 had the pro2 filters ugh (and dsi would move away from stepping filters).
Fair assessment and analog or digital filters are a personal preference. My last digital filter unit was the Origin and while it is a great sounding box, Filter FM or overdrive results in all kind of unpleasant artifacts. That is one area that doesn’t seem to be easily addressed even filter models are getting better these days. Another area is with crazy oscillator motion or digital oscillator artifacts that the analog filter is just a better partner and can slice the unwanted frequencies off while the signal in the digital domain seems to being not fully capable of doing so. Maybe has something to do with having a digital signal until the final stage of DA converters while that happens in a Hybrid much earlier.

I have a bunch of hybrids and a few digital/VA synths and while a lot of people do dislike the Prophet-12 for their own reasons, many professionals swear by it. Personally, I love that thing to pieces. It lives nicely next to the PPG or others. The P12 is a modular in a polyphonic package (with the best UI there is) and thus, it is obvious that it doesn’t please the Juno crowd of instant gratification.

In all fairness, the Hydras poly aftertouch and ribbon is a great reason to get the board, beside the sound engine.
Old 4th September 2019
  #199
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MPrinsen View Post
Have not yet seen any vid, but can someone explain what you can do with the ribbon strip?
Some things include playing it as a continuous controller, or playing it with pitch quantized in 'theremin' mode, or using it as a mod source.
Old 4th September 2019
  #200
Gear Maniac
Any Canadian retailers?
Old 4th September 2019
  #201
Gear Guru
 
zerocrossing's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by zahush76 View Post
It's true that some of the sounds coming out of this synth are "vst in a box". But i think that's not the point. I have the VPS Avenger and UVI Falcon which take me to sonic exploration journeys. But looking at the Hydrasynth videos it seems just huge amounts of fun performing with it.
I think the idea the digital synth as “VST in a box” idea should die a fiery death. We all clearly saw what Roland did with their new System synths/plugin-outs. I wish we could stop our nerd selves from quibbling about what is happening under the hood and instead focus on what the instrument sounds like and what features it has.

That said, I can point to a few things about the Hydrasynth that lead me to consider it, even though I achieve similar quality in various software instruments. The aforementioned performance aspects are first on my list. If you’ve not explored polyphonic aftertouch, you don’t know what you’re missing. If you think that you tried regular aftertouch and rejected it, I encourage you to try this out again and make yourself dig in. Nothing can make a pad come alive like it can. Imagine doing a right hand pad where you’re subtly adjusting each notes detune and cutoff, while you’re soloing over it with the touch strip. I currently do this with my S2 and Rise 49, and let me tell you, it’s glorious.

Second thing is its robust feature set. When I think of the plugins that I have that do good analog modeled filters (Dune 3, and Massive X come to mind, Falcon does not), you won’t find the generous amounts of LFOs or EGs, or even as many mod slots to use them. I personally think it was a misstep leaving out the ability to use oscs in that mod matrix, but having other synths that do that well (Pro 2, Prophet 12 and Peak) makes me not that worried about it. Not all synths have to have all features.

The third thing is character. From what I’ve heard of the Hydrasynth, it has a really nice character that’s different than any of my hardware synths. It’s both familiar and fresh, like the melding of different classic wavetable synths. I see people calling it “digital, but good digital,” but to me it often does seem to sound like it could easily be a hybrid, though I need to go back and listen more carefully. One thing that I think was missing from the demos I listened to was the sounds of analog filter drive, which are key in creating that hybrid analog vibe.

Anyway, I personally don’t feel like this is a synth that would replace any hardware synth that I currently own (except for maybe my GEM S2, which I don’t really use as a synth), or even Dune 3 or Massive X. It’s its own thing, and that’s a good thing. My only questions are about how to fit it on my desk. It’s definitely not a synth that you’d want out of reach.
Old 4th September 2019
  #202
Lives for gear
 
asynchro_nous's Avatar
 

We need a list of synths that will respond appropriately via MIDI to polyphonic aftertouch.

This is a uniquely great controller just for that, let alone the nice engine and arp.
Old 4th September 2019
  #203
Lives for gear
 

The pluses of a ribbon controller:

- continuous control across the whole strip (quantizable in this case, which is I believe unique);
- it’s a modulator within easy reach that can be set instantaneously to any value with a quick touch, hold on, or as long as you touch it;
- it can be assigned to anything;
- it’s much larger as a controller than a knob, mod wheel or pitch stick, so potentially operates with much finer resolution of control (depends on whether you’re CC 0-127 or NRPN);
- you can use multiple fingers on it to do interesting things, though usually serially, not simultaneously (the Moog Voyager’s touch pad solved that problem);
- and more! On the Hydra, it’s also a Theremin. Cool.

The negatives of a ribbon controller:
- Stevie Wonder reportedly wore his out on his CS-80;
- it takes one hand away from the keyboard;
- it’s a constant temptation to use it;
- it is hard to choose a specific value on it, as with a Theremin, so that takes practice;
- since it takes skill and thought and time to master, like poly aftertouch, a vast majority won’t really use it. But that’s always the case with everything on a synth.
Old 4th September 2019
  #204
Lives for gear
 
Bignatius's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coorec View Post
Rev 2 is well under 2k.

Considering that
... housing, keyboard, knobs and connections are the majority of material costs (the electronics should only vary a handful of Dollars)..
... also assembly, calibration and storage should be around the same ...


i dont see a reason why any DSI synth has to cost more, unless of course some money has to be shared with other people who have a hand in it.
The Pro2 was $1999, new. It's replacement certainly won't be less expensive, especially after they make it even cooler than the Pro2.

The Rev2 is another matter entirely, much higher sales figures, lower cost, and a lower retail price.

But I agree with @ zerocrossing that comparing the Hydra and Pro2 isn't the best comparison anyway.

They're loosely similar, in a few ways, but that's it.
Old 4th September 2019
  #205
Gear Maniac
 
mickey13's Avatar
 

It makes me think about selling my OB6 and buying this instead alongside a couple of other things. Not that I dislike the way my OB6 sounds and it works like a charm, but Hydrasynth makes me so excited in how expansive its sound sculpting possibilities are. Polysynths are getting increasingly more affordable and I must say this looks like the most exciting new synth in a long time because of its price-to-versatility ratio.

Analog is great, but I have come to realization I like digital just as much and it has recently dawned on me I don't want to worship some expensive keyboard as some sort of be-all-and-end-all of analog synthesis and I'd rather have good analog saturation alongside something that's both inspiring, relatively affordable (or a lower risk investment in other words) and a versatile sound sculpting tool. That arpeggiator looks absolutely bonkers, the whole synth looks approachable and bonkers. I think I have to familiarize myself with the way Classifieds works. I want it, I really want it.
Old 4th September 2019
  #206
Lives for gear
 
Bignatius's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by zerocrossing View Post
My Pro 2 is in no danger of being replaced. Not by this synth, at least. Remember, in the Pro 2, all 4 oscs are mod sources and you have that amazing tuned feedback and distortion. The osc drive effect is per voice distortion. You won’t be able to get that aggressive with the Hydrasynth.
Agreed.

I don't mean to compare them much, at least not beyond how I'd put them in similar roles, but that's not to say they're very similar otherwise.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deviljho View Post
Any Canadian retailers?
No, not yet.

Sweetwater and Perfect Circuit now.

They have someone working on Euro distro.

Canada is just hosed, eh.
Old 4th September 2019
  #207
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bignatius View Post
No, not yet.

Sweetwater and Perfect Circuit now.

They have someone working on Euro distro.

Canada is just hosed, eh.
As per usual =/
Old 4th September 2019
  #208
Gear Guru
 
EvilDragon's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by realtrance View Post
- continuous control across the whole strip (quantizable in this case, which is I believe unique)
Kurzweil's ribbons can be quantized... Not really that unique.
Old 4th September 2019
  #209
Gear Guru
 
zerocrossing's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by PuggaMahone View Post
The fx seem useful so far, but I kinda want to hear Hydrasynth thru stereo analog drive
I do wish they’d add a distortion effect. I’ve got the Analog Heat, but it’s nice to be able to call up a patch and have the effect chain all there and set.
Old 4th September 2019
  #210
Lives for gear
 
unease's Avatar
I can see why someone would compare this to the Pro-2 if you go by most demos on Youtube. The Pro-2 can also do wavetable-ish crystalline sounds that are similar to Hydrasynth or Peak, which there are a lot if in the demos along with the usual analog pads etc.

But to me the most interesting sounds come when you use the different stages of distortion, feedback and audio rate modulation. It’s only then it really comes to life. The Hydrasynth seems to excel at different kinds of sounds more in the Waldorf wavetable ball park. So I see this more as a contender to Peak or Waldorf’s offerings.
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Forum Jump
Forum Jump