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Hydrasynth
Old 20th October 2020 | Show parent
  #4291
Here for the gear
 

Do you people recommend the Hydrasynth if I want to play just with the VA side of it? I mean, I never use the wavetables (and dont really like them). Im looking for an upgrade from my old Ultranova and the desktop version of the Hydrasynth is just right in my budget.
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Old 20th October 2020 | Show parent
  #4292
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TonStrom's Avatar
I wish there was a pure controller/fx box version of the Hydrasynth,
without synth, just HydraSpydra

4 Midi outs, 4x Sequencer & Arpeggiator with separate controls,
and 2 of the FX Engines with stereo in each, plus PT keyboard, ribbon etc

not too a big fan of the synth, but the fx and controller are ace.

Guess i will buy the KURZWEIL PC4-7 as soon as available
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Old 21st October 2020 | Show parent
  #4293
Gear Nut
Quote:
Originally Posted by samigina View Post
Do you people recommend the Hydrasynth if I want to play just with the VA side of it? I mean, I never use the wavetables (and dont really like them). Im looking for an upgrade from my old Ultranova and the desktop version of the Hydrasynth is just right in my budget.
Hydrasynth doesn't have non-wavetable tone generators, but as a 3-osc / 6-voice monotimbral synth using static (or very small changes to add some motion) cycles from the wavetables, it could still be a decent choice. I feel like there must be a better fit for your needs though - Digitone, maybe? Blofeld? Minilogue XD?
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Old 22nd October 2020 | Show parent
  #4294
Here for the gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by mindseye9 View Post
.
The interface is quite good, and natural to navigate. I have yet to crack the manual.. but I will RTFM as needed.
For a synth, the manual is *phenomenal*! Every time I crack it I learn something new (or something I forgot).
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Old 22nd October 2020 | Show parent
  #4295
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by samigina View Post
Do you people recommend the Hydrasynth if I want to play just with the VA side of it? I mean, I never use the wavetables (and dont really like them). Im looking for an upgrade from my old Ultranova and the desktop version of the Hydrasynth is just right in my budget.
I think the Hydrasynth VA part is very good and you can only use it as 3 OSCs VA. It has everything you need (and more, eg. very good effects) and it sounds very analog, although I don't understand that some don't think so.

But why not examine and use the other sound features?

best regards
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Old 22nd October 2020 | Show parent
  #4296
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Behrmoog View Post
I think the Hydrasynth VA part is very good and you can only use it as 3 OSCs VA. It has everything you need (and more, eg. very good effects) and it sounds very analog, although I don't understand that some don't think so.

But why not examine and use the other sound features?

best regards
I think wavetables can sound very different between synths. I much prefer the Hydrasynth’s wavetables above the Peak’s.

The Hydrasynth can sound very analog indeed, just change 3 settings in the Voice module: warm mode to On, random phase to On and analog feel to about 25.
Then just blend 2 saw waves with some detune and your favorite filter with some drive and it sounds really phat and analog
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Old 22nd October 2020 | Show parent
  #4297
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MPrinsen View Post
I think wavetables can sound very different between synths. I much prefer the Hydrasynth’s wavetables above the Peak’s.

The Hydrasynth can sound very analog indeed, just change 3 settings in the Voice module: warm mode to On, random phase to On and analog feel to about 25.
Then just blend 2 saw waves with some detune and your favorite filter with some drive and it sounds really phat and analog
Can you share an example of such sound? All the demos in youtube center in the wavetable thing (understandably).
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Old 22nd October 2020 | Show parent
  #4298
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Quote:
Originally Posted by samigina View Post
Can you share an example of such sound? All the demos in youtube center in the wavetable thing (understandably).
You mean the analog style sound? There is an excellent demo of it doing classic sounds on yt
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Old 22nd October 2020 | Show parent
  #4299
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MPrinsen View Post
You mean the analog style sound? There is an excellent demo of it doing classic sounds on yt
This one I assume?
https://youtu.be/Yfbz6KWAgUo
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Old 22nd October 2020 | Show parent
  #4300
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CK_MUC View Post
This one I assume?
https://youtu.be/Yfbz6KWAgUo
Exactly
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Old 22nd October 2020 | Show parent
  #4301
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by samigina View Post
Can you share an example of such sound? All the demos in youtube center in the wavetable thing (understandably).
I guess the trick (or at least part of it) is to select those waves which an analog synth usually produces, i.e. simple saw and rectangle, and to ignore the remaining (how much, hundreds?).
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Old 22nd October 2020
  #4302
Gear Head
 

I think the difference is using a single wavetable waveform, versus morphing between two or more wavetables. Using a single wavetable will produce a static set of harmonics not unlike a (non-PWM) analog waveform. It's only when you use two wavetables and morph between them that you get the dynamic harmonics folks will associate with a so-called "wavetable sound."
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Old 24th October 2020 | Show parent
  #4303
Gear Nut
Hi Hydrasynth users, I’m looking at buying the module next week, and it be would great if any of you could point out any things I should be aware of. Obviously I have done a lot of research as I typically don’t buy new synths very often, but this is the first new synth I have seen in long time that seems to be really innovative, sounds amazing, has a solid user interface and at the right price point. I did look at the kB version but the price differential is to high in my country despite the brilliant poly aftertouch. Any tips / advice greatly appreciated ! Thanks
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Old 24th October 2020 | Show parent
  #4304
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AceNoir's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr_Clean View Post
Hi Hydrasynth users, I’m looking at buying the module next week, and it be would great if any of you could point out any things I should be aware of. Obviously I have done a lot of research as I typically don’t buy new synths very often, but this is the first new synth I have seen in long time that seems to be really innovative, sounds amazing, has a solid user interface and at the right price point. I did look at the kB version but the price differential is to high in my country despite the brilliant poly aftertouch. Any tips / advice greatly appreciated ! Thanks
Watch your levels, there are many ways to make it clip, it does not sound nice.

Don't jump straight into wave sequencing, use a static wave and explore all the possibilities with it, you'll get a better idea of how all the modules can change the sound.

When you hit the random button turn the volume down, it will save your ears / speakers.

The desktop is great it still has poly aftertouch and you can play across 3 octaves with one hand.

Also give it time, when I first got mine I had real love hate thing going on, it nearly got boxed up for return on the first day, it took about two weeks for me to fully appreciate it plus there was a firmware bug fix in that time that may have solved some of the niggles I had with it.
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Old 24th October 2020 | Show parent
  #4305
Gear Nut
Quote:
Originally Posted by AceNoir View Post
Watch your levels, there are many ways to make it clip, it does not sound nice.

Don't jump straight into wave sequencing, use a static wave and explore all the possibilities with it, you'll get a better idea of how all the modules can change the sound.

When you hit the random button turn the volume down, it will save your ears / speakers.

The desktop is great it still has poly aftertouch and you can play across 3 octaves with one hand.

Also give it time, when I first got mine I had real love hate thing going on, it nearly got boxed up for return on the first day, it took about two weeks for me to fully appreciate it plus there was a firmware bug fix in that time that may have solved some of the niggles I had with it.
Excellent thanks. Did you have issues with DAW integration (midi clock, usb, local on / off, timing etc) ?
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Old 24th October 2020 | Show parent
  #4306
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr_Clean View Post
Excellent thanks. Did you have issues with DAW integration (midi clock, usb, local on / off, timing etc) ?
I have the keyboard version and have had no issues with integration into my system. I typically turn local control OFF when I'm using Logic so I can use the keyboard as a MIDI controller for poly AT for other synths/VI's that respond to it.

USB MIDI has been flawless for me as well.
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Old 24th October 2020
  #4307
Lives for gear
 
marino's Avatar
So many Hydrasynth videos and demos are based on morphing/swirling textures (which are excellent btw, I just find that there's an overabundance of them).

So I thought to put together a video with "ready-to-play" sounds, with the keyboard 'player' in mind.

More details in the YouTube description. Enjoy.


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Old 27th October 2020 | Show parent
  #4308
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I'm trying to make a mod routing for mono aftertouch on my Keyboard version, but it only seems to work with poly aftertouch? I'd like to have some mod routings poly and some mono aftertouch.. isn't that possible?
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Old 27th October 2020 | Show parent
  #4309
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MPrinsen View Post
I'm trying to make a mod routing for mono aftertouch on my Keyboard version, but it only seems to work with poly aftertouch? I'd like to have some mod routings poly and some mono aftertouch.. isn't that possible?
probably have to change it in the mod matrix. dunno if you can have both in in one patch or if you have to have two different versions of the same patch, one with ploy and one with mono.
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Old 27th October 2020 | Show parent
  #4310
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steubig View Post
probably have to change it in the mod matrix. dunno if you can have both in in one patch or if you have to have two different versions of the same patch, one with ploy and one with mono.
Yes I tried that, but it seems like I’m always “maxxing out” the mono aftertouch :/

So for example, when I have set a routing of mono aftertouch to filter cutoff at 128, the filter is always wide open... even when I press a key very gently..
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Old 27th October 2020 | Show parent
  #4311
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MPrinsen View Post
Yes I tried that, but it seems like I’m always “maxxing out” the mono aftertouch :/

So for example, when I have set a routing of mono aftertouch to filter cutoff at 128, the filter is always wide open... even when I press a key very gently..
Ok nevermind, it works now. For some reason it didn’t in my previous patch... probably user error
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Old 27th October 2020 | Show parent
  #4312
Gear Head
Quote:
Originally Posted by Behrmoog View Post
A short feedback after playing some time with the Hydrasynth.

I think the conversion of keyboard velocity is not good balanced between black and white keys (this is a very old problem).
A synth keyboard is always a compromise and not grand piano.
I have to compare it to other synths.

Second: Sometimes there are distorted artifacts before AT sets in.
It's not well reproducible but sometimes I hear it very clearly.

Are there any comments or experiences from others about these topics?

best regards
Sorry to answer so late to that. I purchased a Hydrasynth at the end of May. I participate mainly on the Facebook group and recently someone commented about that same problem. I am a pianist myself but up to this point hadn't tested the Hydrasynth as a MIDI controller, only with its internal sound engine without velocity sensitivity. Imagine my reaction when I tried playing some velocity sensitive patches on the computer (pianos, Rhodes) - horrific touch response with black keys being MUCH more sensitive than the white keys. I even devised a way to demonstrate that on the synth itself by initializing a patch (single saw wave) and then creating a single mod matrix entry with a reversed (negative) modulation from velocity to oscillator volume which works better because the sound will suddenly disappear for the black keys when you play them together with the white keys and above some particular force. Some other users confirmed the same issue. Nobody from ASM responded, so I contacted Thomann and the keyboard has been with them since October 14th but I still have no answer from them. Honestly I don't think it's a problem with my keyboard only, rather a bad keyboard design. Most people won't notice it since they won't use the keyboard as a MIDI controller and most internal patches are not velocity sensitive.

I'm wondering if I can live with this though. I purchased it also as a MIDI controller and although I haven't used it so far as a MIDI controller, I intend to do so in future. I'm also wondering if Thomann will refund me if they say this is not fixable and I refuse to accept the Hydrasynth with this defect.
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Last edited by CyberGene; 27th October 2020 at 11:40 PM.. Reason: typos
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #4313
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by CyberGene View Post
Sorry to answer so late to that. I purchased a Hydrasynth at the end of May. I participate mainly on the Facebook group and recently someone commented about that same problem. I am a pianist myself but up to this point hadn't tested the Hydrasynth as a MIDI controller, only with its internal sound engine without velocity sensitivity. Imagine my reaction when I tried playing some velocity sensitive patches on the computer (pianos, Rhodes) - horrific touch response with black keys being MUCH more sensitive than the white keys. I even devised a way to demonstrate that on the synth itself by initializing a patch (single saw wave) and then creating a single mod matrix entry with a reversed (negative) modulation from velocity to oscillator volume which works better because the sound will suddenly disappear for the black keys when you play them together with the white keys and above some particular force. Some other users confirmed the same issue. Nobody from ASM responded, so I contacted Thomann and the keyboard has been with them since October 14th but I still have no answer from them. Honestly I don't think it's a problem with my keyboard only, rather a bad keyboard design. Most people won't notice it since they won't use the keyboard as a MIDI controller and most internal patches are not velocity sensitive.

I'm wondering if I can live with this though. I purchased it also as a MIDI controller and although I haven't used it so far as a MIDI controller, I intend to do so in future. I'm also wondering if Thomann will refund me if they say this is not fixable and I refuse to accept the Hydrasynth with this defect.
just tested the mod matrix routing as suggested - the black keys are definitely more sensitive and go silent with less velocity than the white keys do.

i've never encountered this as an issue through the numerous patches I've created but I can see where it might be a problem when you're using it to control virtual grand piano's or whatever.
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Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #4314
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by CyberGene View Post
I refuse to accept the Hydrasynth with this defect.
defect, wow.

It's an intentional design, check for example some cheap Casio or Yamaha pianos for similar idea. Unless you want to pay for premium keyboard that will cost more than several Hydrasynths like top of the line electronic pianos from Roland, Kawai, Casio, Yamaha, you will have compromises somewhere in the design of the keybed.
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Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #4315
Gear Head
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stanislav321 View Post
defect, wow.

It's an intentional design, check for example some cheap Casio or Yamaha pianos for similar idea. Unless you want to pay for premium keyboard that will cost more than several Hydrasynths like top of the line electronic pianos from Roland, Kawai, Casio, Yamaha, you will have compromises somewhere in the design of the keybed.
Not sure I understand what you mean by “intentional design”. I have a MODX6 and it doesn’t have this problem. And that’s probably the cheapest synth action Yamaha have to offer. ASM went to great length implementing poly AT and so I expect that something as simple as making a uniform touch response between black and white keys is not rocket science. There’s no logical reason for this besides an erroneous design. I fail to see how that qualifies as intent though.
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Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #4316
Gear Head
Well, coincidentally Thomann just sent back my Hydrasynth Keyboard with the following description:

Quote:
According to the available description, no errors were detected in your ASM Hydrasynth Keyboard
Apparently that is how these keyboards work. Black keys are much more velocity sensitive than white ones. Not the end of the world since only a very few patches rely on velocity and many users won’t create dynamic patches.

However for people who plan to to also use the Hydrasynth Keyboard as a MIDI controller, be aware it’s not the optimal solution and the black keys will stick out with pianos.
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Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #4317
Lives for gear
 
namnibor's Avatar
That’s why it’s always preferable and optimal to use a properly weighted controller or a weighted digital piano for piano it’s the only way it sounds proper anyway and for proper playing, unless going experimental. I hardly think the designers and engineers at ASM We’re thinking primarily about the poly touch deep synthesizer as their first release as it being a controller for piano, When a piano doesn’t have after touch in the first place for one, just saying.
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Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #4318
Gear Head
Sure, I know that and I have two high-end digital pianos and a hammer-action controller for these purposes. However since the Hydra is my main keyboard near my computer I thought I may use it for quick input of Rhodes piano lines. Currently that’s rather awkward. Not the end of the world But I think it may have been designed better anyway. Fatar synth keyboards and Yamaha synth keyboards even in their cheapest variants are not suffering from this. Not sure about other brands, haven’t used them.
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Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #4319
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by CyberGene View Post
Well, coincidentally Thomann just sent back my Hydrasynth Keyboard with the following description:



Apparently that is how these keyboards work. Black keys are much more velocity sensitive than white ones. Not the end of the world since only a very few patches rely on velocity and many users won’t create dynamic patches.

However for people who plan to to also use the Hydrasynth Keyboard as a MIDI controller, be aware it’s not the optimal solution and the black keys will stick out with pianos.
If this really is the case, it should be easily fixable through a firmware update. Haven’t yet found it a problem in my patches though, but only used velocity in my patches for subtle changes..
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Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #4320
Gear Head
Quote:
Originally Posted by MPrinsen View Post
If this really is the case, it should be easily fixable through a firmware update. Haven’t yet found it a problem in my patches though, but only used velocity in my patches for subtle changes..
Yes, I think it’s an easy firmware fix, they just should apply less steep velocity curve to black keys.

I also created a few patches where there’s a very slight velocity driven filter opening. In cases like that it’s not noticeable.
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