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Native instruments woes
Old 1 week ago
  #361
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gremlin moon's Avatar
 

No longer the alternative to the Big 3, NI will be making Jet Skis, guitar tuners and crotch rockets next and perhaps...
Old 1 week ago
  #362
Gear Head
 

Could be a good litmus test as to how quickly NI get full compatability with the new MacOS Catalina as I received an E-Mail advising not to update if don't want to suffer from some problems with NI stuff running on it. My Music computer is on Windows 10 so doesn't affect me anyway but I think it could provide a good insight in to how well NI is running at the moment...
Old 1 week ago
  #363
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neptune45 View Post
Could be a good litmus test as to how quickly NI get full compatability with the new MacOS Catalina as I received an E-Mail advising not to update if don't want to suffer from some problems with NI stuff running on it. My Music computer is on Windows 10 so doesn't affect me anyway but I think it could provide a good insight in to how well NI is running at the moment...

We have had those emails ocasionally since I started using maschine in 2012.
Old 1 week ago
  #364
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They send those emails as a caution to save on any support calls, they neither have or need to update anything for Catalina, the product works as was sold for the OS it was designed for.
Old 1 week ago
  #365
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BobTheDog's Avatar
 

Catalina is going to be some kind of nightmare, anyone with any sense won't update until it has been out for a good while.
Old 1 week ago
  #366
@ BobTheDog - Got a source for that? I've been running the beta on my (non audio) laptop, and the only issue I've seen is that 32 bit apps are now done. I have a lot of my main software installed, and it all seems to run fine...
Old 1 week ago
  #367
Gear Nut
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobTheDog View Post
Catalina is going to be some kind of nightmare, anyone with any sense won't update until it has been out for a good while.
This is why I have a dedicated MBP for my music workstation. Also gave me an excuse to buy one of those super beefed up laptops

(Edit to remove emoji. It’s almost 2020. Come on forum software)
Old 1 week ago
  #368
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BobTheDog's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by S_A_P View Post
@ BobTheDog - Got a source for that? I've been running the beta on my (non audio) laptop, and the only issue I've seen is that 32 bit apps are now done. I have a lot of my main software installed, and it all seems to run fine...
Well if you have no software that is 32 bits or has 32 bit components then you won't have a problem.

On my music machine here if I go to System Report->Legacy Software I see 54 applications that will not run in Catalina.
Old 1 week ago
  #369
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Jim Rosebrook's Avatar
 

Latest info from NI - Sep 13

Latest info from NI:

Hi everyone,

We’ve been reading your responses and questions based upon the tough news about changes inside of Native Instruments. And we understand the doubts and fears that may have arisen. Our press statement was aimed at business media, so we want to speak to you directly here.

I can’t answer every question, but I hope I can at least give you some more information and reassurance.

Let’s just get this out of the way: Native Instruments is a healthy business. We’re not going anywhere, and neither are the products that you have.

Going forward, our priority is to listen to your requests, and to deliver the key features you want. This doesn’t mean we are going to be able to build every feature our community asks for, but we are listening. Our Product Managers are keeping track of the most requested features. And those of us in management will support them to ensure these features are built. In short, we will be focusing a lot more on software, and in turn making the hardware you have even better.

We also want to be more community-focused. But we are aware that in the past, we’ve promised things that we couldn’t always deliver. Instead of promising things now, we understand we have to build your trust by “doing” rather than “talking”.

An example of this are the arranger features currently in development for Maschine. We appreciate that this has been an important topic for many of you, and this is currently a top priority for us. If you want to see how this is taking shape, then I highly recommend joining our MASCHINE Beta group, where you’ll soon be able to test the first parts yourself and give us feedback. It’s a big task and we want to get it right, so we are building this step by step, and sharing this with you in the beta environment so that we deliver what you need.

Another example of where we are actively working with you, our community, is for Massive X. We are regularly updating the roadmap there and will be rolling out new features on a regular basis. Please join the beta or follow the forum to see more.

Many people were confused by the phrase “One Native” and you've probably seen this term being used in our press release. Firstly, it's not some kind of new product. To hopefully end speculation, this refers to how we work inside of Native. In the past, some of our teams have been working fairly separately and products have sometimes been developed with not enough collaboration and integration aspects in mind. By taking a unified approach inside the company, we believe we can make our products and services work together more smoothly and provide better communication to you, the musicians who are using Native. And it’s not just about connecting our own products, but also the wider world of sounds and music making tools out there. NKS is a great example of this, and we want to do more.

We’ve seen the term “platform strategy” brought up a number of times, with some believing this translates to “subscription”. It doesn’t. Native is already a platform provider. Examples of our existing platforms might be KONTAKT or REAKTOR. These are “authoring platforms” or tools which allow third parties to build instruments and make money from them. And we’re proud there are so many amazing instruments built on those platforms, many of them supporting the NKS standard, which we consider to be part of our platform experience. Naturally, we want to see more. So this is an aspect of our business that we believe we can strengthen, be it in developing existing products, or in larger ideas for the future.

On the subject of subscriptions, we understand some people feel strongly about this. Please let me reassure you that we’re not about to charge you subscriptions for the products you already own. One of Native’s aims is to remove barriers for people who want to make music. And for some people, that barrier might be financial. We’re exploring lots of different ways to address this including (but not limited to) subscriptions. A recent example of how we’re doing this is the introduction of PayPal installment plans in our online shop. But we want to do more.

Of course we can’t share everything that we’re working on. But I hope this gives you some insight into what’s going on at Native.

Best,

Paul
Last edited: Today at 11:50 AM
Chief Marketing Officer & SVP Sales
Native Instruments GmbH
Old 1 week ago
  #370
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login's Avatar
So subscriptions pretty much confirmed but in addition to normal product sales.
Old 1 week ago
  #371
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by login View Post
So subscriptions pretty much confirmed but in addition to normal product sales.
This was my take on it as well.

Plugin Alliance caused a lot of fuss in the community over subscription model.

NI might do something similar to EastWest...
Old 1 week ago
  #372
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login's Avatar
PA marketing practices have always been overly aggressive, their pricing model very similar to waves.
Old 1 week ago
  #373
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".... Please let me reassure you that we’re not about to charge you subscriptions for the products you already own...."


How gracious of them.

It's like - I bought a car and paid cash for it, and now the manufacturer isn't going to charge me a subscription for it - yay!


For future stuff, going into it with eyes wide open - that's a different story.
Old 1 week ago
  #374
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Rosebrook View Post
Latest info from NI:

Hi everyone,

We’ve been reading your responses and questions based upon the tough news about changes inside of Native Instruments. And we understand the doubts and fears that may have arisen. Our press statement was aimed at business media, so we want to speak to you directly here.

I can’t answer every question, but I hope I can at least give you some more information and reassurance.

Let’s just get this out of the way: Native Instruments is a healthy business. We’re not going anywhere, and neither are the products that you have.

Going forward, our priority is to listen to your requests, and to deliver the key features you want. This doesn’t mean we are going to be able to build every feature our community asks for, but we are listening. Our Product Managers are keeping track of the most requested features. And those of us in management will support them to ensure these features are built. In short, we will be focusing a lot more on software, and in turn making the hardware you have even better.

We also want to be more community-focused. But we are aware that in the past, we’ve promised things that we couldn’t always deliver. Instead of promising things now, we understand we have to build your trust by “doing” rather than “talking”.

An example of this are the arranger features currently in development for Maschine. We appreciate that this has been an important topic for many of you, and this is currently a top priority for us. If you want to see how this is taking shape, then I highly recommend joining our MASCHINE Beta group, where you’ll soon be able to test the first parts yourself and give us feedback. It’s a big task and we want to get it right, so we are building this step by step, and sharing this with you in the beta environment so that we deliver what you need.

Another example of where we are actively working with you, our community, is for Massive X. We are regularly updating the roadmap there and will be rolling out new features on a regular basis. Please join the beta or follow the forum to see more.

Many people were confused by the phrase “One Native” and you've probably seen this term being used in our press release. Firstly, it's not some kind of new product. To hopefully end speculation, this refers to how we work inside of Native. In the past, some of our teams have been working fairly separately and products have sometimes been developed with not enough collaboration and integration aspects in mind. By taking a unified approach inside the company, we believe we can make our products and services work together more smoothly and provide better communication to you, the musicians who are using Native. And it’s not just about connecting our own products, but also the wider world of sounds and music making tools out there. NKS is a great example of this, and we want to do more.

We’ve seen the term “platform strategy” brought up a number of times, with some believing this translates to “subscription”. It doesn’t. Native is already a platform provider. Examples of our existing platforms might be KONTAKT or REAKTOR. These are “authoring platforms” or tools which allow third parties to build instruments and make money from them. And we’re proud there are so many amazing instruments built on those platforms, many of them supporting the NKS standard, which we consider to be part of our platform experience. Naturally, we want to see more. So this is an aspect of our business that we believe we can strengthen, be it in developing existing products, or in larger ideas for the future.

On the subject of subscriptions, we understand some people feel strongly about this. Please let me reassure you that we’re not about to charge you subscriptions for the products you already own. One of Native’s aims is to remove barriers for people who want to make music. And for some people, that barrier might be financial. We’re exploring lots of different ways to address this including (but not limited to) subscriptions. A recent example of how we’re doing this is the introduction of PayPal installment plans in our online shop. But we want to do more.

Of course we can’t share everything that we’re working on. But I hope this gives you some insight into what’s going on at Native.

Best,

Paul
Last edited: Today at 11:50 AM
Chief Marketing Officer & SVP Sales
Native Instruments GmbH
Sounds fine to me. Figured any corporate doublespeak was business-oriented.
Old 1 week ago
  #375
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BobTheDog's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by felis View Post
".... Please let me reassure you that we’re not about to charge you subscriptions for the products you already own...."


How gracious of them.

It's like - I bought a car and paid cash for it, and now the manufacturer isn't going to charge me a subscription for it - yay!


For future stuff, going into it with eyes wide open - that's a different story.
It's only the upgrades that you will need to subscribe to, some may see this as painful to accept as I would guess there will be no difference in price for existing owners and new subscribers.
Old 1 week ago
  #376
Lives for gear
 
Jim Rosebrook's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by felis View Post
".... Please let me reassure you that we’re not about to charge you subscriptions for the products you already own...."

How gracious of them.
They only had to provide such a statement because of all the over-reactions buzzing around.
Old 1 week ago
  #377
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telecode's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobTheDog View Post
It's only the upgrades that you will need to subscribe to, some may see this as painful to accept as I would guess there will be no difference in price for existing owners and new subscribers.
I already posted my reply on NI forums. There are going to need to be a **** load of new products and updates to existing products in order for existing owners on Komplete Ultimate to be enticed to subscribe. Given that NI haven't updated most of the Komplete products -- I dont know how thats gonna fly exactly.


What doesn't make any sense is -- the post claims to move is to make the offering "more affordable" and reduce financial road blocks for musicians. The last time I checked, the reason most musicians buy into Komplete is because its the most affordable offering when compared to what it costs to own SpitFire, East-West or Vienna Symphony...
Old 1 week ago
  #378
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by telecode View Post
I already posted my reply on NI forums. There are going to need to be a **** load of new products and updates to existing products in order for existing owners on Komplete Ultimate to be enticed to subscribe. Given that NI haven't updated most of the Komplete products -- I dont know how thats gonna fly exactly.


What doesn't make any sense is -- the post claims to move is to make the offering "more affordable" and reduce financial road blocks for musicians. The last time I checked, the reason most musicians buy into Komplete is because its the most affordable offering when compared to what it costs to own SpitFire, East-West or Vienna Symphony...
I think they’re trying to cast a subscription model as a moral thing to do, you know, for the poor musicians.

I think the very careful choice of words “for the products you already own” says everything.

Adobe went to a subscription model. They eliminated every non subscription product except Lightroom. Lightroom is buggy but they won’t update it.

I bought both Lightroom and Premiere as a package deal years before the Creative Cloud Crap existed. The last non-subscription version of Premiere, like Lightroom, introduced all new bugs. Premiere barely ran for me.

In order to get the bugfixes for the software I bought I would have to pay $30 a month, and would be forced to rent software I will never use (Photoshop). In less than six months I would have paid, all over again, the same amount of money I paid to begin with. Every six months I would be doubling, then tripling, then quadrupling my investment. In five years I would have paid $1800 to use software I previously bought for $180.

Subscription software is a con. It may seem harmless at first, but it will bite you in the end.
Old 1 week ago
  #379
Lives for gear
 

Rent, in general, is a terrible and wasteful thing.

Whether vehicles, housing, or music gear/software, it is a model that's almost always bad for the consumer.
Old 1 week ago
  #380
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neptune45 View Post
Thought I'd post my comment in relation to this and subscription models from another forum to see what people think here:


I think NI will take the initiative and try to become the Umbrella Company and allow third party developers to place their products within the NI subscription model etc.

They have obviously noted the proliferation of subscription models and thought that people won't have endless subscriptions and so thought they will try to cash in big time on using their 'massive' influence (pun intended) to create a one stop shop subscription model with developers from all aspects of music production.

If it worked they could rake in the money and become a Hub like company.

If this occurred I could see other disgruntled developers eventually getting together and forming a 'Plugin Alliance' (again pun intended) in order to compete. I think it will be like when independent High Street shops got killed off to a large extent and Super Markets took a hold.

This is of course all supposition and just what I would now seek to do if I had influence within the market place as there is much money to be had for the eventual "winners".
You posted this 6 days ago... now reading between the lines of Paul Salesandmarketing's "platform strategy" paragraph, you seem to be right.

So, they'll put the existing stuff all in one place, and continue developing the "authoring platform" tools and website to allow third parties to actually develop most of the new content and then sell it thru Native, for a cut ofc. It seems to be an important part of the platform strategy - it took up the whole paragraph. It makes sense for what they are now.

They also sound committed to their HW stuff in some statements, but then clearly say that they're going to focus "alot more" on SW. With "alot less" employees, though?
Old 1 week ago
  #381
Lives for gear
 
mpresev's Avatar
I'm grateful for the free stuff they give out around Christmas time. I love their free delay btw.
Old 1 week ago
  #382
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Coorec's Avatar
Glad that 2+ years after the Jam scam they finally are going to continue to work on song mode. Lets see for how long and wether it gets finished this time.

Unless they have a Maschine stand alone coming its too little too late for me, but for the sake of their employees hopefully not for everyone.
Old 1 week ago
  #383
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greggybud's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Rosebrook View Post
[B]Latest info from NI: Our press statement was aimed at business media, so we want to speak to you directly here.

Please let me reassure you that we’re not about to charge you subscriptions for the products you already own.[/I]
Where is "here?" This statement was released to who?

It does sound like they can offer subscription going forward, but that doesn't necessarily mean there won't be alternatives.

I wish they would have mentioned more about the programs that built NI in their first decade. They did mention Reaktor and Kontakt...that's great. But will Absynth, FM8 or Battery 3 ever see an upgrade? If so, would they be subscription only?
Old 1 week ago
  #384
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by greggybud View Post
Where is "here?" This statement was released to who?

It does sound like they can offer subscription going forward, but that doesn't necessarily mean there won't be alternatives.

I wish they would have mentioned more about the programs that built NI in their first decade. They did mention Reaktor and Kontakt...that's great. But will Absynth, FM8 or Battery 3 ever see an upgrade? If so, would they be subscription only?
Battery is upgraded to v4
Old 1 week ago
  #385
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greggybud's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by motomotomoto View Post
Battery is upgraded to v4
Yes, but there are lots of great features left out of Battery 4.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jxcf5oMhNlA

Battery 4 is an example of NI failure to listen to it's users.
Old 1 week ago
  #386
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telecode's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by greggybud View Post
Where is "here?" This statement was released to who?

It does sound like they can offer subscription going forward, but that doesn't necessarily mean there won't be alternatives.

I wish they would have mentioned more about the programs that built NI in their first decade. They did mention Reaktor and Kontakt...that's great. But will Absynth, FM8 or Battery 3 ever see an upgrade? If so, would they be subscription only?
If that were to happen that would totally blow chunks.

You keep your old Komplete, but if you want updates, start subscribing."
Old 1 week ago
  #387
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basehead617's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by realtrance View Post
But "the best talent" is a real misnomer. Usually, in these situations, the best talent has already fled or been let go (due to "not getting with the program"), and only the most pliable mediocrities and some angry marketing child who's busy bootlicking the CEO (or board) and knows nothing about the work, or culture of the company, or the customers' interests (hence the the obsession with "data driven decision-making," since there isn't sufficient mind and vision to actually drive) are left behind.
As an engineer in tech I couldn’t disagree more with this. Star engineers are coveted and if anything are catered to and coddled, especially these days with so much competition for engineering talent and experience.

There is no awesome engineer being laid off for disagreeing with the direction. They might leave on their own but it’s more likely producers and managers who get let go for this.
Old 1 week ago
  #388
Lives for gear
 

Yikes, was that statement suppose to be comforting?
Old 1 week ago
  #389
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by ljefe View Post
I
In order to get the bugfixes for the software I bought I would have to pay $30 a month, and would be forced to rent software I will never use (Photoshop). In less than six months I would have paid, all over again, the same amount of money I paid to begin with. Every six months I would be doubling, then tripling, then quadrupling my investment. In five years I would have paid $1800 to use software I previously bought for $180.
So the company win. For the period until now they only need one customer out of ten to join. Fewer customers also is lower cost. However it get problematic when there is competition, this nine other customers will be a base for some other eco system.
Old 1 week ago
  #390
Lives for gear
 
ponzi's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
I know more than you but cannot say due to NDA. < deleted - language >
For someone who cannot say, you have been doing plenty of saying...
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