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Typing "in" chords..?
Old 3 weeks ago
  #1
Here for the gear
 

Typing "in" chords..?

I'm a huge fan of electronic music but would like to work with and add more advanced chords and progressions than is usually seen in the genre. At the same time my piano skills are pretty bad. Therefor....

I'm looking for a way to literally type chord progressions into arrangements in Ableton (or Logic) the same way as it is done in "Band-in-a-Box", "Chordbot" and perhaps even more programs. Has anyone heard about a solution to this challenge?

Technically it should be easy to create what I'm looking for. I once saw a guy on Youtube who could type chords into Band-in-a-Box and then made his Tyros (styles) follow the progression. Could this be done with a DAW instead of a Tyros? And is it perhaps allready done?

I'm sure I'm not the only one who loves electronic music, but at the same time are missing harmonic development in the genre. What do you guys do?

Sincerely

mads A
Old 3 weeks ago
  #2
Gear Maniac
Can’t you just draw them in the piano roll or am I missing something?
Old 3 weeks ago
  #3
Chordator or Schwarzinator if you are using Live (Max4Live) will pretty much do what you are looking for i guess!

bless!
Old 3 weeks ago
  #4
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MIK Captain Chords and Xfer Cthulu are other options...
Old 3 weeks ago
  #5
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rasseru's Avatar
scaler has this chord progression thing at the bottom, might be of some use. you can put chords in and then drag the midi out into the daw
Old 3 weeks ago
  #6
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xanderbeanz's Avatar
I think the idea is noble, adding more harmonic complexity and therefore artistry/life to electronic music.

I’d encourage everyone to improve their instrumental skills, and pair that with learning a repertoire of other people’s stuff...pulling it apart to see what makes it tech, but I generally get shouted down for suggesting that here.

It’s cool to play piano though, it’s something that I’ve absolutely loved being able to do, although for certain projects I do a lot of piano roll clicking.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #7
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr shifty View Post
Can’t you just draw them in the piano roll or am I missing something?
That's too advanced.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #8
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rockreid's Avatar
 

In hardware, see Isla Instruments Kordbot
Old 3 weeks ago
  #9
Here for the gear
 

Thanks for participating and helping, you guys are great.. :-) ....but


What I'm after is the instead change in chords and arrangement in my DAW that makes it possible to experiment with a high paced workflow.

This I can do in Band-in-a-box, iReal Pro and ChordBot. However, these programs have limitations when it comes to sounds and recording. They are NOT DAWs and cannot be compared to Logic or Ableton.

I have heard that a feature called 'Chord Track' once was available in Logic and that it could do what I want. Apparently though, it was removed in LPX because it was too buggy.....Too bad!

'Chord Assistant' in Cubase seem to be the closest thing to what I'm looking, but I really don't want to change DAW. 'Captain Chord', 'Scaler' and 'Chord Composer' can also do the job, but here I have work with the internal sounds inside these programs which I don't want to.

I've played guitar for 40 years, 25 as a pro and have a conservatory degree in music, but unfortunately my piano skills are inadequate when it comes to handling complex arrangement ideas and chords with many instruments. Therefor this thread. BIAB, iRP and ChordBot are great for experimenting, but, as mentioned above, not sufficient for production.

Does anyone have a suggestion?

Sincerely

mads A
Old 3 weeks ago
  #10
Gear Guru
 
Yoozer's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
'Chord Assistant' in Cubase seem to be the closest thing to what I'm looking, but I really don't want to change DAW. 'Captain Chord', 'Scaler' and 'Chord Composer' can also do the job, but here I have work with the internal sounds inside these programs which I don't want to.
Captain Chords 3.0 can be routed to whatever plugin you want, and you can drag the chords to a new MIDI track.

https://mixedinkey.com/captain-plugins/captain-chords/

Another option is Synfire Cognitone, though that does far more than chords.

http://www.cognitone.com/products/mps/intro/page.stml
Old 3 weeks ago
  #11
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
Thanks for participating and helping, you guys are great.. :-) ....but


What I'm after is the instead change in chords and arrangement in my DAW that makes it possible to experiment with a high paced workflow.

This I can do in Band-in-a-box, iReal Pro and ChordBot. However, these programs have limitations when it comes to sounds and recording. They are NOT DAWs and cannot be compared to Logic or Ableton.

I have heard that a feature called 'Chord Track' once was available in Logic and that it could do what I want. Apparently though, it was removed in LPX because it was too buggy.....Too bad!

'Chord Assistant' in Cubase seem to be the closest thing to what I'm looking, but I really don't want to change DAW. 'Captain Chord', 'Scaler' and 'Chord Composer' can also do the job, but here I have work with the internal sounds inside these programs which I don't want to.

I've played guitar for 40 years, 25 as a pro and have a conservatory degree in music, but unfortunately my piano skills are inadequate when it comes to handling complex arrangement ideas and chords with many instruments. Therefor this thread. BIAB, iRP and ChordBot are great for experimenting, but, as mentioned above, not sufficient for production.

Does anyone have a suggestion?

Sincerely

mads A
Scaler is the way to go in your case. It does not need to use it's internal sounds, and since you have a very good theory background you can edit the chords rather quickly.

The other thing you may want is a basic chord learning patch. You simply engage it and press all the notes in the chord that you want to play and then assign it to a note on your midi keyboard. A lot of synths have them built in (deepmind 12 comes to mind).
Old 3 weeks ago
  #12
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mildheadwound's Avatar
Could you play guitar at Melodyne, or is it an instrument specific composition thing? (Ie. Note count limitations)
Old 3 weeks ago
  #13
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Hi Yoozer

Maybe I misunderstood then, but don't you have to work 'inside' a certain scale in Captain Chord?

Is it possible to do a jazz standard with multiple key centers?

:-) ma
Old 3 weeks ago
  #14
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Hi Methlab

Great idea. I'll check that out.

:-) ma
Old 3 weeks ago
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
....
'Chord Assistant' in Cubase seem to be the closest thing to what I'm looking, but I really don't want to change DAW....

I don't understand why you wouldn't change DAW's if you've found one that does what you want it to.
Even the entry level Cubase Elements for $99 (sometimes less), has a lot of chord adding/editing functions:
https://steinberg.help/cubase_elemen...sistant_c.html
https://steinberg.help/cubase_elemen..._editor_r.html
(Lots more in the online manual too)

Which one are you using now?

Last edited by felis; 3 weeks ago at 01:51 AM..
Old 3 weeks ago
  #16
Gear Maniac
 

Oh sure, people--myself as an owner included--love to rag on the poor old Poly-800(II), but this is one of the things it does nicely.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #17
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ArtFluids's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by thehighesttree View Post
Oh sure, people--myself as an owner included--love to rag on the poor old Poly-800(II), but this is one of the things it does nicely.
But the Poly-800 just transposes a fixed chord right? It doesn’t dynamically shift between major and minor based on the key.
At least you’d be able to play three chords in any key with it.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #18
Gear Maniac
I use this ancient plug-in that apparently allows you to type in intervals and note names. I wouldn't know about that though..I just use it to make bitchin chord memory rave stabs with zero harmonic logic and/or sophistication

http://www.vst4free.com/free_vst.php...Chords&id=1642
Old 3 weeks ago
  #19
Gear Maniac
 
Progger's Avatar
Hey, OP! I think you would really benefit a lot from avoiding a shortcut like that and taking just a little bit of time to learn the various chord quality options available to you. There really aren't all that many, at least to get started with the crucial fundamentals, and it might really stimulate your creative writer's mind to start experimenting with these shapes on your keyboard! To get started, here's all you really need.

TRIADS (three-note chords)

Major: root, maj 3rd, 5th
Minor: root, min 3rd, 5th
Diminished: root, min 3rd, flat 5th
Augmented: root, maj 3rd, sharp 5th
Suspended: root, 4th, 5th

TETRADS (four-note chords)

Major 7th: root, maj 3rd, 5th, maj 7th
Minor 7th: root, min 3rd, 5th, min 7th
Half diminished: root, min 3rd, flat 5th, min 7th
Suspended dominant: root, 4th, 5th, min 7th
Augmented major 7th: root, maj 3rd, sharp 5th, maj 7th
Minor #7 : root, min 3rd, 5th, maj 7th
Diminished 7th: root, min 3rd, flat 5th, maj 6th (AKA double-flat 7th)

Seriously, just get used to how all these sound in two or three keys, see how many ideas for new tunes start flowing out of you. You'll have a few new tunes' worth of progressions before you know it.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #20
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trick fall's Avatar
 

I use hardware for this. One of my favorite features of the Toraiz Squid is being able to play one finger chords. One of my long term goals in life is to learn at least a bit of piano playing, but I just don't have the time to dedicate to it right now.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #21
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by felis View Post
I don't understand why you wouldn't change DAW's if you've found one that does what you want it to.
Even the entry level Cubase Elements for $99 (sometimes less), has a lot of chord adding/editing functions:
https://steinberg.help/cubase_elemen...sistant_c.html
https://steinberg.help/cubase_elemen..._editor_r.html
(Lots more in the online manual too)

Which one are you using now?


Logic or/and Ableton which I really like.

I had Cubase years ago and gave up on it.....:-)
Old 3 weeks ago
  #22
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoozer View Post
Captain Chords 3.0 can be routed to whatever plugin you want, and you can drag the chords to a new MIDI track.

https://mixedinkey.com/captain-plugins/captain-chords/

Another option is Synfire Cognitone, though that does far more than chords.

http://www.cognitone.com/products/mps/intro/page.stml


Hi Yoozer

Maybe I misunderstood then, but don't you have to work 'inside' a certain scale in Captain Chord?

Is it possible to do a jazz standard with multiple key centers?

:-) ma
Old 3 weeks ago
  #23
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tricera's Avatar
 

I've been getting ads for chord progression tools on YouTube for the past few weeks. One is the Unison MIdi Chord Pack. The other one, it starts with the guy auditioning chords in Ableton I think. Didn't see the name, but you choose by chord name so probably useful for study. I've just randomly viewed ten YouTube videos but it didn't come up. Sorry.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #24
Gear Guru
 
Yoozer's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by tricera View Post
I've been getting ads for chord progression tools on YouTube for the past few weeks. One is the Unison MIdi Chord Pack.
That one is a disappointment - all you get are small MIDI files with a single chord. Nothing that suggests chords, not worth the money, and you can make these yourself with minimum effort.

Plus, if you complain in a Youtube review the manufacturer will take you down with a DMCA request.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #25
I got the Unison chord pack during a $27 sale price. It does include chord progressions. There are over 1000 files. I think they also tossed in some Serum presets.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #26
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in a pretty short amount of time you could probably create your own template with chords you will use alot...jazz standards probably lots of Dominant 7's...major/minor 7's, 6s...some 9s maybe? IDK jazz standards super well.

Anyway you draw in each chord 1 time in a "template" track, then open template copy and transpose them in whatever order you want....might have to mess around with the voice leading though...seems to be the issue with chord stuff.

I used to spend a stupid amount of time searching presets for sounds i would like to use later...finally cracked down and spent some time on synthesis...would have saved a lot of time had i done that first! Sometimes the hard way is the easy way
Old 3 weeks ago
  #27
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
I'm a huge fan of electronic music but would like to work with and add more advanced chords and progressions than is usually seen in the genre. At the same time my piano skills are pretty bad. Therefor....

I'm looking for a way to literally type chord progressions into arrangements in Ableton (or Logic) the same way as it is done in "Band-in-a-Box", "Chordbot" and perhaps even more programs. Has anyone heard about a solution to this challenge?

Technically it should be easy to create what I'm looking for. I once saw a guy on Youtube who could type chords into Band-in-a-Box and then made his Tyros (styles) follow the progression. Could this be done with a DAW instead of a Tyros? And is it perhaps allready done?

I'm sure I'm not the only one who loves electronic music, but at the same time are missing harmonic development in the genre. What do you guys do?

Sincerely

mads A
Here’s a free one for you. I like this a lot if you already know your theory and want to quickly create non-diatonic progressions. I think the price and use case is perfect for what you are looking to do.

Old 3 weeks ago
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Methlab View Post
Here’s a free one for you. I like this a lot if you already know your theory and want to quickly create non-diatonic progressions. I think the price and use case is perfect for what you are looking to do.

I'm more after an arranging plug-in with notation options. Let's say I hav looped a 2 bar progression in my DAW with the chords:

Bb-7 - Eb7 - Ab-7 - Db7

And on the fly I wanted to hear how the following extensions/substitutions sounds like with all tracks following:

Bb-9 - A13 - Dsus#5#9 - Db713

In Band-in-a-box/iReal Pro/Chordbot (IOS app) I can just type the chords in and the program will play them. I wish that was possible in Ableton or Logic.

Ripchord is a great app though

Thanks :-)
Old 3 weeks ago
  #29
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post

In Band-in-a-box/iReal Pro/Chordbot (IOS app) I can just type the chords in and the program will play them. I wish that was possible in Ableton or Logic.
I haven't read through he whole thread so I may be a bit off here but can't you export the midi file from irealpro and just open it up in logic?
Failing that as you are a pro guitarist how about a guitar-midi converter? Playing your choice inversions is always going to be a whole lot more musical than a chord app.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #30
Here for the gear
 

Hi Beeboss

Certainly, and I might end up doing that if Captain Chord cannot do what I'm looking for, which I'm trying to find out?

The hole idea was just to make it easy to hear how changes in harmony and voicing sounds like. Like when you run through sounds in your library.

Thanks :-)
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