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u-he synths (Diva/Repro) sounds (very) different @ different sample rates
Old 4 weeks ago
  #31
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EvilDragon's Avatar
That patch also has feedback on max, which will probably also differ in sound between different SRs.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #32
Urs
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calagan View Post
Hi Mr Hekcmann, and thanks for participating directly to this conversation.

Like I said already, I love using Diva and Repro, and I consider them as well above everything else I already tried on a computer. Thanks for that !

But I'm not sure if I really understood your answer.

You speak about a sound difference in the filter when using different sample rates. It may be the case, but I guess it will stay subtile...

I think that in my exemple the problem is the speed of the ADSR (envelope) changing with sample rate. Because in the preset I already mentionned, the envelope n°2 is modulating the cutoff (and thus conditioning the pitch because resonance is at max).
Proof of that is : the problem disapear (almost, but I think what stays is the filter issue) when we raise (slow down) the setting of the envelope.

And the issue is not only a subtle difference in the sound, but a very noticeable pitch jump (2 semitones in my exemple).

Or maybe I understood you wrong (I'm not very technical with synths, and even less with coding, so I may misunderstood your point).
I did try to figure out how the patch works, but can't quite comprehend what's really happening. First of all, it only works in few filter modes, and only in the 12dB variant, and the "upward swish" in the beginning has less to do with the envelope (which has way too fast Attack) but everything with the feedback from the mixer. The tuning is unrelated to this though and definitely dependent on the envelope.

I reckon, it's related to whether the number of samples it takes to reach the Attack spike is close to an integer sample position or not, i.e. whether it's, say, 47.468 samples or 51.999. Because even when you shift-drag Env2 Attack up a little bit, the tune of the patch goes up and down significantly. So I don't think it's an issue of samplerate dependent time, it's an issue of how many samples it takes to process that time.

I think what you discovered is the first instance I ever saw where envelope aliasing has any significance on the tuning of a patch. So maybe in future I'll code envelopes so that the attack spike will always be reached at an integer sample position, regardless of general time and samplerate.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #33
Lives for gear
 

BTW The phenomenon changes (disappears?) when you change envelope type to "analog" (4 sliders).
Old 4 weeks ago
  #34
Gear Maniac
 
Calagan's Avatar
 

I'm glad my issue could stay in the history as one rare exemple of when "envelope aliasing has any significance on the tuning of a patch"...


I feel honored. I can send you my real ID by PM if you need to name this phenomenon...

So I guess nothing can't really be done about that, and it's part of the coding of Diva.
Or maybe an update could fix that ?


Actually it's not a big issue, and I had this only with this particular sound (but until recently I almost never switched from different sample rates).

I had another very different issue with repro 5, where a patch with a lot of noise was changing "quality"/sound (not pitch) with different sample rate, but I didn't explore that further.
Maybe it's related to what you said in your post #28
Old 1 week ago
  #35
Gear Maniac
 
Calagan's Avatar
 

Any news regarding the issue I raised ?

Any plan to fix it ? Or any info ? (even if it's to tell there's no solution)
Old 1 week ago
  #36
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EvilDragon's Avatar
"So maybe in future I'll code envelopes so that the attack spike will always be reached at an integer sample position, regardless of general time and samplerate. "

Doesn't sound like anything immediate will happen.
Old 1 week ago
  #37
Gear Maniac
 
Calagan's Avatar
 

damn !
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