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Rs7000 vs rm1x as sequencer
Old 4 days ago
  #1
Gear Head
Rs7000 vs rm1x as sequencer

hey all im determining getting a Yamaha rs7000 or RM1x, but only really intend to use it as a sequencer. which is/has a better, more advanced, sequencer?

i loved what i heard about the RS7000 having "modular" like sequencing (EX: the hi-hat pattern can be a 2-bar pattern, while your snare can be a 4-bar pattern, and your bass can be a 16-bar pattern.) can the RM1x do this as well?

ive heard the RM1X is an amazing sequencer, but havent gotten details on it.


im interested in sequencing abilities because ive got an MPC1000 already, which i have been using exclusively for sampling/loops.

i want my setup to be MPC1000 (trigger sampling/loops/imported sounds)
and either the rs7000 or RM1X as a sequencer.


so, in my situation, do you think rs7000 or RM1X?
Old 4 days ago
  #2
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robotunes's Avatar
Get the RS7000. With the v2.0 update, you can enter and edit your steps while the sequencer is running.

It also has Loop Remix, which intelligently moves MIDI data around to create new patterns during playback, and lets you clear the changes or save them if you want.

Plus you have 31 knobs to send CCs with.

EDIT: Not to mention that RM1x keys wear out over time on most machines and have to be replaced.

EDIT 2: When adding new tracks on the RM1x in grid mode, you can't hear what you've recorded on previous tracks. And if you have the earlier RM1x firmware, patterns will send unwanted program changes to your connected gear unless you know the workaround for defeating this. And replacing the firmware means buying a chip and taking it to a tech for installation — no software update as on the RS7000.

In short, everything that's wrong with the RM1x was fixed with the RS7000, and for good measure Yamaha added a sampler that you can use as a synth (but sample editing is freakin' slow by today's standards. I don't mind though. Quite like the RS7000).

Source: I have both.
Old 4 days ago
  #3
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VennD68's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by spenny23 View Post
hey all im determining getting a Yamaha rs7000 or RM1x, but only really intend to use it as a sequencer. which is/has a better, more advanced, sequencer?

i loved what i heard about the RS7000 having "modular" like sequencing (EX: the hi-hat pattern can be a 2-bar pattern, while your snare can be a 4-bar pattern, and your bass can be a 16-bar pattern.) can the RM1x do this as well?

ive heard the RM1X is an amazing sequencer, but havent gotten details on it.


im interested in sequencing abilities because ive got an MPC1000 already, which i have been using exclusively for sampling/loops.

i want my setup to be MPC1000 (trigger sampling/loops/imported sounds)
and either the rs7000 or RM1X as a sequencer.


so, in my situation, do you think rs7000 or RM1X?
RS7000 all the way.
Punch in/out recording.
Better implemeted Step + XOX recording.
Realtime loop remixing of midi phrases.
All phrases can be any measure length and independent time signature across all tracks.
Midi OUT A & B not to be over looked.
Scenes - not many but enough.
Better access to midi fx and a larger CC assignable control surface.
Proper track montoring of other active parts in XOX mode.
Can step sequence midi CC's for parameter lock style sequencing.
Old 4 days ago
  #4
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by spenny23 View Post
hey all im determining getting a Yamaha rs7000 or RM1x, but only really intend to use it as a sequencer. which is/has a better, more advanced, sequencer?

i loved what i heard about the RS7000 having "modular" like sequencing (EX: the hi-hat pattern can be a 2-bar pattern, while your snare can be a 4-bar pattern, and your bass can be a 16-bar pattern.) can the RM1x do this as well?

ive heard the RM1X is an amazing sequencer, but havent gotten details on it.


im interested in sequencing abilities because ive got an MPC1000 already, which i have been using exclusively for sampling/loops.

i want my setup to be MPC1000 (trigger sampling/loops/imported sounds)
and either the rs7000 or RM1X as a sequencer.


so, in my situation, do you think rs7000 or RM1X?
I see very little reason to get either if you already own an MPC1000, especially when you have access to JJ OS. Yamaha devices might do a few more things, but personally I find the 1000's sequencer more convivial, easier and faster to use and more inspiring than any of the former devices.

If you want more knobs just get a good MIDI controller to compliment your MPC, don't waste your money on antiquated sequencers, you don't want to deal with floppy disks or smart media cards, trust me.
Old 4 days ago
  #5
Lives for gear
 

i didn't realise the rs7000 was an improved version of the sequencer. you always hear that it's 'the same' sequencer.

can you drop in and out of Record while it's running ? that would make a big difference to me. are there any comparison videos that demonstrate this?

big price difference between the 2 units of course.

i have the last eeprom for the rm1x. must get round to fitting it. how about today ?
Old 4 days ago
  #6
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quoting robotunes from another thread - just the drop-in record is a winner for me. why would you want both machines ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by robotunes View Post
No. RS7000 with OS 1.22:
  • goes into and out of record mode without stopping the sequencer
  • in grid mode lets you hear other tracks while recording
  • in grid mode lets you easily find notes you've previously recorded
  • gives you much finer resolution in grid record mode. You can record 64th note triplets or even 128th notes. Perfect for anybody doing trap or coming up with their own syncopated genre.
  • sends you immediately into grid mode or step edit mode just by pressing the REC button (as long as the last edit mode you were in was grid or step). Press PLAY to return to whatever screen you were last in. Or you can immediately enter the MIDI edit list by pressing EDIT. These are a few of the many awesome ways the RS7000 lets you change up your pattern on the fly.
There are a couple other improvements just with the basic OS. The biggest is the fix for the RM1x's dreaded patch change error. In older RM1x models, starting the sequencer on one of the built-in patterns will send patch change messages to anything connected to the RM1x. Yamaha eventually fixed it with an EPROM chip, but I never knew about it until a couple of years ago.

Even so, the RM1x sequencer doesn't do many of the things that make the RS7000 epic.


What do you mean?

Old 4 days ago
  #7
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are patterns stored automatically on the rs7000 like on the rm1x?
that is the nice thing about rm1x.

a-haaaa : if rs7000 can do rec<>play without stopping, and let you hear step input in context, would it be possible to alter the rm1x firmware ?

am reading this:
https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/vi...56207&start=20

says:
"I *believe* that the later/last version of the RM1x OS (via EEPROM chip) allows drop in/out recording. "

now that would be very cool!! this motivates me to do the upgrade. i will let you know.
Old 4 days ago
  #8
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I dont think you can just drop in and out of record while playing like the MPC (play mode)Think its like your in record mode but can dip in and out (rehearse) But then have to stop sequencer again and go back into just play mode.So youe either in play mode or record mode.Correct me if im trippin.

Very different sequencers MPC and RM1X.RS7000.MPC is not as fluid for the step/xox style and will ultimately get different results.Using both together is the best way :]

Im rather fond of the RM1X.The sound engine has a slight metalic tone to it imo (metal case ??ha) altho the RS is higher quality.Maybe i just like the lower fi ness of the RM.But the real advantage is the smaller foot print and fact that when you power down and power up its exactly as you left it.Awesome.
Old 4 days ago
  #9
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have you got the last eeprom in the rm1x? i need to get round to that today
once the temperatures drop off a bit (... otherwise guilt trip stuck indoors etc.)

thinking about people asking to see Yamaha re-do the RS7000 in a smaller format.
i really think it would be pretty extraordinary to have something you could fit in
a travel case/backpack with all that sound and sequencing capability; very liberating.

maybe if it could interface with something else for more control.
everyone will go 'ugh get a tablet' which i suppose is the right answer - since it's easily replaceable as well. but ever since my first little QY sequencer i've wanted a little box with similar capability that could sample and load samples as well, with a better display. if it could have a SD 'hard drive', same kind of flash, no-save functionality... could just take off with that, get a lot done, keep the urge to make noises under control etc.

it's been ages since Yamaha dealt with that kind of device, really could be the right time to do another one. kind of mind boggling what could be done, in fact, if they got it right.
Old 4 days ago
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goa-Dubs View Post
I dont think you can just drop in and out of record while playing like the MPC (play mode)
this has always 'confounded' me (read 'frustrated') - ever since i had a SR16 and a DR660 side by side. how come the SR16 can do it, and the DR660 can't? the DR660 had to go. (the SR16 also, later: grim little box. i was given another more recently, so cost = 0 and i can view it as a trashbox, there if i want to use it. managed to make a plausible kit of two on it, but would serve as a midi programmer now, if anything)

so why did they not have it as a standard feature? price of flash ram? - if that has anything to do with it - it seems like an essential feature.
Old 4 days ago
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robotunes View Post
And replacing the firmware means buying a chip and taking it to a tech for installation — no software update as on the RS7000.
If this is the same as mine, I was sent the chip for free by Yamaha (I’m sure it may cost now as I’d bought mine new) and I installed it - plug and play myself very easily. Just pops in - no soldering.
Old 3 days ago
  #12
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mpresev's Avatar
Oh let me post lol.


I owned the RM1X Yamaha in 2000. At that time this was groundbreaking because the Roland MC303 groovebox was not capable of what the RM1X could do. I sold my MC303(still a good groovebox) for the RM1X. THe RM1X controlled my EMU Orbit, EMU EMAX 1 keyboard, EMU ESI32, Yamaha AN1X, Nord Lead Rack 1, Microkorg. It controlled all these machines.. It was fun to sequence.

Problem!! it runs out of memory quick and I don't like using the disk... I upgraded to RS7000 2 years later when the price dropped on the RECYCLER magazine(no craigslist yet). the RS7000 is the same as the RM1X and now it has better sounds, much more memory and it has a sampler that I never used cause it's slowwww.

I think you should check out the RS7000 because some of the RM1X has bugs.. My RM1X had a bug(it changes midi channel on it's own, yukk but Yamaha sent me a new memory card for it. Yamaha asked me to send it to Yamaha in Los Angeles and they installed and fixed it for me.. Great machine after that installation.

Check out the Yamaha RS7000 as it will control your gears. It's also easy to use it..The manual is ok but you'll be able to figure it out.

You have 16 pads and each pads on the keyboard are your patterns.. It's a reliable machine btw..

Lastly, besides the RS7000 being a very good sequencer, it also has nice updated drums(fat drums), lately bass lol, rompler samples sound good to me.. Effects are good as well.. Frankly, one can make music by just the RS7000 alone as it has all the sounds for Techno/Hip HOp, etc.

Ebay is selling them for 350 - 550?

I'm now using the Alesis MMT8 a more simplified sequencer(no step sequencer) but it's ok.. One can lay ideas so quick.


I recommend the RS7000 bigly. I'm thinking of getting the Pioneer Squid or the Pyramid. I'm not liking the user reviews of the PIoneer Squid though.. Pyramid seems to be the Alesis MMT8 alternative.

But man, Pyramid is expensive at 600 - 750?
Old 3 days ago
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whatever17 View Post
are patterns stored automatically on the rs7000 like on the rm1x?
that is the nice thing about rm1x.

a-haaaa : if rs7000 can do rec<>play without stopping, and let you hear step input in context, would it be possible to alter the rm1x firmware ?

am reading this:
https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/vi...56207&start=20

says:
"I *believe* that the later/last version of the RM1x OS (via EEPROM chip) allows drop in/out recording. "

now that would be very cool!! this motivates me to do the upgrade. i will let you know.
No, you have to store the patterns manually on the RS7000. That's about the only minus when compared to the rm1x.
Old 3 days ago
  #14
Gear Addict
 

Warning - Record behaviour is different for different record modes , which I’ll outline below , but just as important is you cannot switch between record modes or change bar length to record without STOP .

copied from a previous explanation of mine :

“In Grid & Step Modes you can enter Record & then return to Play without stopping sequencer , correct .
In Realtime / Overdub modes you can use the Rehearse function to drop in & out of Record BUT Rehearse is still in Record mode & this does not allow changing to other Sections . You can only change to other Sections in Play not Record modes .
So you can Record in Grid or Step then return to Play , change to new Section & enter Record again to build new part . You cannot do this with Realtime or oVerdub .
But also you cannot switch Recording modes themselves , or length of Pattern to be recorded without stopping the sequencer .

The RS7000 is still a very powerful sequencer which still offers many functions later sequencers dont , & I don't have much of a problem stopping whilst composing , not least because I enjoy the moment of pressing Play again ! , but for accuracy it must be stated that the RS7000 is not designed for non-Stop sequencing ,*
* edit : unless maybe you work solely in Grid or Step Mode using same Bar length throughout . “
from New Akai MPC X vs. Yamaha RS7000 vs. Squarp Pyramid

Right here right now back in this thread I will agree with most others that RS7000 sequencer is much better than RM1x - in addition to other reasons given ,
don’t forget the blinky xox lights of rs7000 also cover the black button notes of the keyboard (unlike rm1x ) allowing the button keyboard to give a piano roll lightshow representation of the notes playing in each midi track in realtime playback & for sequencing in stepmode or editing . very useful .
not sure if the screen is bigger but the GUI is definitely better also .
Old 3 days ago
  #15
Lives for gear
 

ok, thanks for that info.

will say that nonetheless, getting to grips with the RM1X for the first time, i thought it was much better than anything else i'd tried up to that point,
eg: 'historically', vs other sequencers.

so, not to be dismissed, imo - and much cheaper, and widely available.
it isn't so 'deluxe', and it's a tough old box; not something you'd get precious about. dimensions not bad, it will sit inside a rackspace. about same depth as a 30cm rack unit. or just pop it on top of a stack of rack. boots up fast, straight to where you were before you switched off, ready to go. kind of thing you can switch on and off several times in a day, adding stuff in mini-sessions.

it's a shame the buttons wear out, but you can replace the tact switches with better ones inexpensively. it's something to look out for when buying one, but i have seen them very cheap for that reason. you might not have to replace the whole set ( and maybe not advisable, as i did on one i got for...?! 27eu ?! and killed it without being able to trace where i'd screwed up. i could have stopped after fixing only the ones that didn't trigger, but i went OCD and tried to do them all, damaged a hidden trace somewhere )

i can forgive the lack of non-stop operation just for the fact that you can have different part lengths within a pattern - up to 256 bars... - that in itself is brilliant. but i agree that non-stop would be a lot nicer (perfect?).

ie: if you're on a tight budget, it's a really good first choice, whether you move on to something else after or not. fun and powerful.

pretty sure that the step mode lets you start playback while you're in that mode - which is a big advantage over the little QY100/70.
Old 1 day ago
  #16
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to check rm1x OS version:

power on holding Pattern,PattChange and Utility

http://glitchscience.com/guides/RM1x...OS_Install.pdf
Old 1 day ago
  #17
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does anyone have Yamaha's list of changes, with OS v1.13 ? can't find it on Yamaha's site. there is supposed to be a document for this somewhere.
thanks.
Old 1 day ago
  #18
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by whatever17 View Post
does anyone have Yamaha's list of changes, with OS v1.13 ? can't find it on Yamaha's site. there is supposed to be a document for this somewhere.
thanks.
I think the main/only change is the program change MIDI command issue fix
Old 1 day ago
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by olafmol View Post
I think the main/only change is the program change MIDI command issue fix
that's what it says everywhere. i'd like to have a look at the original Yamaha notes. i think there are some other tweaks, 'midi filtering' i saw somewhere. also saw complaints that the midi channel assignment was resetting with v1.12.
Old 7 hours ago
  #20
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(don't know if this is offtopic? ...)

ok, did the upgrade; swapped out the old eeprom for the new v1.13 one.
really easy and quick; you don't even have to remove all the back case screws.
just the bottom ones so the base plate can be removed. had memories of taking the whole thing apart to get at the button board, which is a hassle.

put it in wrong way round at first, because the eeprom notch wasn't the same, and the label faced the other way unexpectedly. so i got a blank screen the first time ("waaah?"). swapped it round (this eeprom was heavier...) and it booted straight away.

first thing i noticed, that i don't remember seeing with v1.12 is that Pattern now has 2 pages if you press it a second time. can't remember: is it like that originally?
not a massively useful page tbh. displays phrases used and some other stuff.
have not had time to test it yet more than that.
(holding onto original, just in case)

bump for this updates features doc ?
Old 3 hours ago
  #21
Gear Addict
 

@

Quote:
Originally Posted by whatever17 View Post
that's what it says everywhere. i'd like to have a look at the original Yamaha notes. i think there are some other tweaks, 'midi filtering' i saw somewhere. also saw complaints that the midi channel assignment was resetting with v1.12.
http://analog-monster.blogspot.com/2...08273835308269
Old 3 hours ago
  #22
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Quote:
yup i read that. he says:
"
analog monster Monday, 6 October 2014 at 16:27:00 BST

Between v1.12 and v1.13 there are no actual added features at all, no new sounds or anything like that. It is literally only a bug fix for the program change bug listed above. If you own an RM1X and only use it by itself then I wouldn't bother upgrading. But if you ever want to use it to sequence another device then the final OS or an external MIDI filter may be the only way to make things work (this depends on the device(s) receiving data from the RM1X but many of my older synths would freak out once every 4 or 8 bars when the program change is sent, making them totally unusable with the RM1X)"

still :-) would be nice to see teh official Yamaha release notes, if they exist anywhere. no no, not being OCD at all :p
Old 3 hours ago
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whatever17 View Post
(don't know if this is offtopic? ...)

ok, did the upgrade; swapped out the old eeprom for the new v1.13 one.
really easy and quick; you don't even have to remove all the back case screws.
just the bottom ones so the base plate can be removed. had memories of taking the whole thing apart to get at the button board, which is a hassle.

put it in wrong way round at first, because the eeprom notch wasn't the same, and the label faced the other way unexpectedly. so i got a blank screen the first time ("waaah?"). swapped it round (this eeprom was heavier...) and it booted straight away.

first thing i noticed, that i don't remember seeing with v1.12 is that Pattern now has 2 pages if you press it a second time. can't remember: is it like that originally?
not a massively useful page tbh. displays phrases used and some other stuff.
have not had time to test it yet more than that.
(holding onto original, just in case)

bump for this updates features doc ?
The second page isn't new with 1.13, but it's massively useful - this is where you can change phrases for your sequence. Over of the most useful aspects of the sequencer, if you ask me.
Old 3 hours ago
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Perplexo View Post
The second page isn't new with 1.13, but it's massively useful - this is where you can change phrases for your sequence. Over of the most useful aspects of the sequencer, if you ask me.
don't know why i missed that...
lol it's bugging me now. almost enough to swap back and check

(hey you have 'nuff grooveboxes in your sig' ...)
Old 3 hours ago
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whatever17 View Post
(hey you have 'nuff grooveboxes in your sig' ...)
I have way too much stuff, so I'm selling a bunch of it. I lost control
One of the boxes I'm selling is in fact an rm1x. I have two RS7000's in addition, so I really don't need it.
Old 3 hours ago
  #26
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well it seems to be a good time to sell one, as the prices seem a bit higher.
maybe it's because it's summer; have to wait until everyone's back into their routines. but it's also a pretty obvious choice for OTB jamming. other than more recent, more expensive things - i really can't think of any older gear apart from the rs7k and the command stations (that i don't know at all). ...

mind you: those Rolands.. have never had one either. quick look at 505, is all.
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