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Keyboard action - Moog One - say what?!
Old 1 week ago
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mvrh View Post
I recently tried and tested a lot.of keybeds for piano playing, including Yamaha Geno's, Tyros, Montage, Modx8, CP88, P515, Roland Rd2000 and FA-08, Korg Kronos, Grandstage, Casio PX-S, Arturia, M-audio, Akai controllers and now I'm going to sound like a fanboy, but nothing played as good as the Kawai action, all felt cheap for piano to me. I finally went for the Kawai MP11SE because the VPC-1 was too heavy action for me. So, if you can, source that VPC and try it yourself.

When I came home with the MP11SE and played it for a few hours, all Fatar keybeds felt like toys for a while. Fayar keybeds are great for fast action for synth and organ technique, but don't hold a candle for piano.
I agree the VPC-1 is heavy, but it's still my choice and playing on other keyboards seems easier after, so it's good practice also. Agree with your feelings on all of this.

As to the OP - the Fatar TP 9 on my Minimoog reissue is one definite reason I went reissue over OG model D. It feels so good to play.
Old 1 week ago
  #32
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The Quasimidi Raven is a good way to get a TP8 for not too much money.
Old 1 week ago
  #33
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Yoozer's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by dr_Jezz View Post
As to the OP - the Fatar TP 9 on my Minimoog reissue is one definite reason I went reissue over OG model D. It feels so good to play.
I'd say the biggest drawback of the original is not so much playability, but that so many units look like a jack-o'-lantern

The reissue keyboard feels really nice though.
Old 1 week ago
  #34
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It's worth noting that much of the feel of a keybed has to do with the chassis design, and the degree to which mechanical rigidity provides a known end-stop for key throw.

FATAR has made a lot of good keybeds over the years, including the Emax coil-spring contact and Ensoniq "contactless" keybeds. The TP/8 variant used in the E-mu E4K / E-Synth (with longer matte piano-profile sharps) is also very good, for a bubble-contact design.
Old 1 week ago
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vertflyer View Post
The Quasimidi Raven is a good way to get a TP8 for not too much money.
How wide and deep is the top left shelf - if one wanted to put a desktop module on the top left?
Old 1 week ago
  #36
I wish I could pop out my Yamaha Clavinova keybed and use it on my studio desk. Unfortunately the piano isn’t remotely close enough to my studio room to connect it.
Old 1 week ago
  #37
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Lady Gaia's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by mvrh View Post
I finally went for the Kawai MP11SE because the VPC-1 was too heavy action for me. So, if you can, source that VPC and try it yourself.
With limited available space I keep looking past dedicated controllers to keyboards that offer unique synthesis possibilities in their own right. Every time I want to play on a great Kawai action I just need to walk twenty feet from the studio lair to my beloved Shigeru Kawai SK-7, so I'm sure that's a major factor.

It will get more complicated next year when I have to start nailing down the primary keys for a second residence where I won't have that luxury. I had the VPC-1 on a list for a while but could go with the Nord Grand Stage since it has the same action, a Yamaha CP-88 or a Montage successor if they fix a few things, or the current Kurzweil flagship ... even if it's still an unchanged Forte. Decisions, decisions!

Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
TP/40L has no third sensor, this is where RD-2000 wins.
If that's a significant factor for the kinds of pieces you're playing, I can see it. The Nord Piano 3 (and presumably 4) also offer this in a slightly heavier TP/40 action and I would lean that direction over the RD-2000 if the three-sensor arrangement were a big deal for me.
Old 1 week ago
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Gaia View Post
It's fascinating how different impressions of various keybeds are. The RD-2000 seemed decent but not remarkable to me. I like the TP-40L on my Kurzweil Forte better, and the only current action I've tried recently that I liked better still was the graded hammer action on Yamaha's CP88. I have yet to track down a VPC-1 to try out.

The OP is absolutely on target in complaining about the general state of keyboard quality, though. My brief encounter with a Prophet T8 last year reminded me once again just how much I miss seeing its like in the market. The TP-8S is decent enough but in an ideal world anything less should be the province of cut-rate budget gear instead of the standard for professional gear. The only other current TP-8S equipped instrument I can name offhand is the Waldorf Quantum.

On a slight tangent, the Moog One I tried out had a really creaky keybed which detracted from the impression of quality. It sounded like it must be mounted under slightly too much tension or something, because even gentle playing would elicit lots of disconcerting little groans from the keys.
I wonder whether that's installation, or a bad factory run at Fatar? Since there were reports of creaky keys for some Quantums as well as Moog Ones. Or maybe it's a hazard of installation and shipping on a heavy synth.

I learned a long time ago not to worry about synth actions; none of them have the feel of a real grand piano. The PHA-50 is it? from Roland comes the closest.

You don't want a piano action in a synth, though; it's neither fast enough nor flexible enough to be appropriate for use playing organs, harpsichords and other keyboard instruments, not to mention..... synths!

A synth keyboard is inevitably a compromise, therefore, and why manufacturers like Roland and Clavia make specialized piano and organ keyboards.
Old 1 week ago
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Gaia View Post
With limited available space I keep looking past dedicated controllers to keyboards that offer unique synthesis possibilities in their own right. Every time I want to play on a great Kawai action I just need to walk twenty feet from the studio lair to my beloved Shigeru Kawai SK-7, so I'm sure that's a major factor.

It will get more complicated next year when I have to start nailing down the primary keys for a second residence where I won't have that luxury. I had the VPC-1 on a list for a while but could go with the Nord Grand Stage since it has the same action, a Yamaha CP-88 or a Montage successor if they fix a few things, or the current Kurzweil flagship ... even if it's still an unchanged Forte. Decisions, decisions!



If that's a significant factor for the kinds of pieces you're playing, I can see it. The Nord Piano 3 (and presumably 4) also offer this in a slightly heavier TP/40 action and I would lean that direction over the RD-2000 if the three-sensor arrangement were a big deal for me.
Have you considered Roli's Blocks system? If I were interested in exploring alternative keyboard interfaces, that would appeal to me most.
Old 1 week ago
  #40
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ModularOverkill's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Gaia View Post
It will get more complicated next year when I have to start nailing down the primary keys for a second residence where I won't have that luxury. I had the VPC-1 on a list for a while but could go with the Nord Grand Stage since it has the same action
Where does the Nord Stage 3 fit in (88 key) on keybeds? I have one and I like it, but it hasn't been amazing (but way better than the Stage 3 76 I have which is pretty awful if compared against piano expectations but probably fine when compared to lighter keys)
Old 1 week ago
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blewis_13 View Post
How wide and deep is the top left shelf - if one wanted to put a desktop module on the top left?
It’s about 15x7.5 inches.
Old 1 week ago
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clusterchord View Post
i got two Yamaha CS80s... one for each hand to control my softsynths and don't use internal sounds
Good idea. Sounds totally dated.
Old 1 week ago
  #43
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zerocrossing's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by realtrance View Post
Have you considered Roli's Blocks system? If I were interested in exploring alternative keyboard interfaces, that would appeal to me most.
I’m sure it’s not this way for everyone, but as much as I love the Roli stuff (and that’s a lot) it did not do what I hoped it would do, and that’s replace a traditional synth style/action keyboard. I still go to one about 60-70% of the time. However, if you’re looking to push yourself in another direction, IMO, there’s no better bang for the buck.
Old 1 week ago
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Gaia View Post
If that's a significant factor for the kinds of pieces you're playing, I can see it. The Nord Piano 3 (and presumably 4) also offer this in a slightly heavier TP/40 action and I would lean that direction over the RD-2000 if the three-sensor arrangement were a big deal for me.
Played NP3 and NP4, still liked RD-2000 more. It's not really about which pieces I'm playing, but about the response I'm getting with it and Pianoteq.

It's also about the whole package. RD-2000 is way more capable, with V-Piano engine inside too. Sadly, MIDI controller-wise is a far cry from Kurzweil... which is why there's still no perfect board out there for me :(
Old 1 week ago
  #45
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Lady Gaia's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by realtrance View Post
You don't want a piano action in a synth, though; it's neither fast enough nor flexible enough to be appropriate for use playing organs, harpsichords and other keyboard instruments, not to mention..... synths!
Just as a piano action isn't ideal for everything, lightweight synth actions aren't universally applicable either. I find hammer actions preferable for control over velocity, while synth actions are infinitely better for glissando and rapid repetition when subtle control over velocity isn't critical. Given a choice, I'd always have at least one of each in a given setup.

Quote:
Originally Posted by realtrance View Post
Have you considered Roli's Blocks system? If I were interested in exploring alternative keyboard interfaces, that would appeal to me most.
As @ zerocrossing noted, the Roli Seaboards aren't really usable replacements for traditional keyboards of any stripe. They are, however, fascinating new alternatives alongside the likes of the Linnstrument. I tried out a Rise 49 and didn't find it broadly applicable enough to devote a tier to. Instead, I picked up a Seaboard Block which fits neatly atop my Forte for the times when I need its unique capabilities.
Old 1 week ago
  #46
Gear Nut
 
mvrh's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Gaia View Post
With limited available space I keep looking past dedicated controllers to keyboards that offer unique synthesis possibilities in their own right. Every time I want to play on a great Kawai action I just need to walk twenty feet from the studio lair to my beloved Shigeru Kawai SK-7 , so I'm sure that's a major factor.

It will get more complicated next year when I have to start nailing down the primary keys for a second residence where I won't have that luxury. I had the VPC-1 on a list for a while but could go with the Nord Grand Stage since it has the same action, a Yamaha CP-88 or a Montage successor if they fix a few things, or the current Kurzweil flagship ... even if it's still an unchanged Forte. Decisions, decisions!
You have the luxury of owning an acoustic grand for your needs. I'd love one, even an upright, but because I need to move a lot, that's not an option for me. I want to involve a computer to my playing as little as possible and so decided to go for a slab instead of a controller, that's where the MP11SE fits in perfectly: Shigeru EX sample, great Rhodes, the key action I want, lots of tuning options and great controller to boot. And worth the most: I have fun playing piano again! That's something none of the forementioned controllers/DP's did.

Good luck deciding. Took me a while and lot of playing on various models too!
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