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Audio interface with lots of line inputs?
Old 2 weeks ago
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fiddlestickz View Post
I've always used MOTU interfaces, had about 4 in my entire life over 30 years, they are super reliable imo, never had much problems with any of them and when I did it was my fault. They seem to be made for mac first and foremost though so if a windows user prolly best to use something else, but I love them and would buy a 16A in heart beat if I could afford one..

this is really good comparison, use monitors or good headphones though..

I'm a Windows 10 Pro user, so I guess I'd stay away from the MOTU..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuzzmonkey View Post
I used to have a UFX latency and stability are pretty much the same between Motu and RME I'd say, at least on my Macbook pro 2015 13 inch.
I've just read a topic about MOTU & Windows and I think I might pass on this, just to be sure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by usedtohaveajuno View Post
I think it's fair to see RME sit right at the top of the tree for stability and drivers - they have a longer track record than anyone.

You are moving into much more expensive territory than you first planned BTW - I bought a second hand UFX but I was lucky to find one at a decent price.

Yes, the RME convertors sound a million times better than what I was originally looking at (ProSumer) but that doesn't help me make better music
You are right. I always have a hard time focussing on what's really important and in the end EVERYTHING has to be perfect and I end up with the best option which is 2 or 3 times my budget The worst thing is, that I usually pay for it as well...

But you're right, I have to keep my budget in sight so MOTU 16A is a no-go

Quote:
Originally Posted by usedtohaveajuno View Post
Here's my setup (as an example, it's very close to what you are trying to achieve) - RME UFX mk1 with an ADA8200 Mk2 sitting on top of it - 12 inputs on the RME (4 with pre-amps), 8 on the ADA, connected over ADAT

Runs at 48K as that's all the ADA supports, which forced me to change from 96K, but I haven't noticed any down sides at all.

All the great sounding stuff plugged into the RME (JX8P, Jupiter6, 808, 909 kick, JD990), all the crap sounding stuff plugged into the ADA (CZ-101, TX81Z, 707, 909 digital parts)

That cost me 900GBP for the UFX second hand and 120GBP for the ADA new off Amazon earlier this year. I might add a second ADA soon as well, to get me up to 28 inputs.

Audio interface with lots of line inputs?-image1-1-.jpg
Seems like a nice setup! I might do something similar. I guess for just line-level recording, the ADA8200 is good enough. I think especially the pre-amps are of lower quality, so have to get at least 1 good preamp to add.

The UFX would be overkill, as I don't need all those DSP fx (although a gate would be useful), so I'd rather have a cheaper option, but with the same low latency and stability as the UFX. Is the UC a good option? Is it just as fast and stable?
Old 2 weeks ago
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MPrinsen View Post
How is the round trip latency on the x32?
See attached chart that I made for the USB adapter of the M32. The X32 values should be the same.

BTW, sadly there is no M32 Rack that is packaged as the X32 Rack. I'd have one if there was. I do own an M32 and an MR18...and a QSC TouchMix 16.

The last two columns are in milliseconds round-trip latency. Data collection was done using the Oblique RTL tool.
Attached Thumbnails
Audio interface with lots of line inputs?-rtl-win10-hsierra-dn32.jpg  
Old 2 weeks ago
  #63
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usedtohaveajuno's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by MPrinsen View Post

Seems like a nice setup! I might do something similar. I guess for just line-level recording, the ADA8200 is good enough. I think especially the pre-amps are of lower quality, so have to get at least 1 good preamp to add.

The UFX would be overkill, as I don't need all those DSP fx (although a gate would be useful), so I'd rather have a cheaper option, but with the same low latency and stability as the UFX. Is the UC a good option? Is it just as fast and stable?
I don't use any of the effects but like you when I spend my cash I want to think I'm spending it on top quality gear (Ulinger excepted, but it didn't matter) - I bought it for the clean convertors and TBH brilliant headphone out and just general brilliant industrial design

I can't comment on the UC, but RME don't make a bad product - they're all brilliant at what they do, so buy with confidence - I was about to buy a UCX but then the UFX popped up second hand for a similar price.

A UC with an ADA8200 expanding it will be a great setup.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #64
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OK I decided I go for an RME..

I came to think about it.. I've had 4 different audio interfaces in the last 15 years. I had trouble with all of them. Some more than others. I'm done with it. I read people praising RME all over the internet about stability and latency. If RME is the best in stability, I just have to go the RME route.

I think it'll be 2nd hand UCX + ADA8200, but depends on what's on offer 2nd hand.

One more question: the UFX is newer than the UCX, isn't it? Weird that the UCX is still in production, but the UFX not anymore. Why is that? The UFX+ is out, but UFX II is still in production..
Old 2 weeks ago
  #65
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usedtohaveajuno's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by MPrinsen View Post
I read people praising RME all over the internet about stability and latency. If RME is the best in stability, I just have to go the RME route.

I think it'll be 2nd hand UCX + ADA8200, but depends on what's on offer 2nd hand.
That's EXACTLY what made me decide to buy the RME - I was in the same boat as you.

Quote:
One more question: the UFX is newer than the UCX, isn't it? Weird that the UCX is still in production, but the UFX not anymore. Why is that? The UFX+ is out, but UFX II is still in production..
Pretty sure the UCX is newer than the UFX, but if you are just a keen amateur like me I don't expect a massive difference in the quality of AD/DA convertors etc - I'm sure if you put a 3K interface in front of me I'd notice it, but not between generations of RME!
Old 2 weeks ago
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by usedtohaveajuno View Post
That's EXACTLY what made me decide to buy the RME - I was in the same boat as you.



Pretty sure the UCX is newer than the UFX, but if you are just a keen amateur like me I don't expect a massive difference in the quality of AD/DA convertors etc - I'm sure if you put a 3K interface in front of me I'd notice it, but not between generations of RME!
Ok that clears things up, thanks!
Old 2 weeks ago
  #67
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RME have the best driver support in the industry. A beacon of How It Should Be Done.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #68
Gear Nut
You would think there is a need and market for a 16 channel interface with an option for an additional 16 ch expansion in a 1u space

I don’t need mic e passion I need line in expansion. If Samson sm10 would have adAT then it could be. Nice unit.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #69
Gear Maniac
 

Could look at a used lynx Aurora 16 usb or thunderbolt. I had the 8 it was rock solid, and can be found for 700 now, as it's been replaced by the Aurora(n). I'm guessing the 16 could be found for 1200 maybe? Excellent converters, and has aes inputs/outputs as well.
Old 1 week ago
  #70
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On the fence between:

- RME Digiface + 2x budget 8 i/o ADAT
- RME Fireface UCX (2nd hand) + 1x budget 8 i/o ADAT

I wonder which option would give me better latency? Does anyone know?

For the ADAT I might get a 2nd hand Focusrite Octopre MK2 Dynamic, as these seem to sound pretty good. I prefer balanced TRS line inputs/outputs. Not sure the focusrite had balanced line inputs? The ADA8200 seems to have balanced outputs only...
Old 1 week ago
  #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seamonkey View Post
I don't see them not supporting it, and I don't understand why there would be a question that a company as large as Roland with a lot of professional users wouldn't continue supporting one of it's products.

I also don't think 6 or 7 years is that long to make a piece of equipment like this outdated.
You must be new to this.
Old 1 week ago
  #72
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seamonkey's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Treebase DMX View Post
You must be new to this.
Old 1 week ago
  #73
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fiddlestickz's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by scottfrost View Post
You would think there is a need and market for a 16 channel interface with an option for an additional 16 ch expansion in a 1u space

I don’t need mic e passion I need line in expansion. If Samson sm10 would have adAT then it could be. Nice unit.
nah not 16ins, make it 32 ins all line level, 4 outs, 2 of them are main monitors 2 are secondary monitors, no other type of connection, no MIDI, no digital, just 32 line level ins, monitor outs and a kettle power lead socket, make it 9U rackable 24ins on the back, 8 on the front for those who need access to quick inputs/patching.
Old 1 week ago
  #74
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So, today I found out there is also a PCIe version of the Digiface USB: the RME HDSPe Raydat, which is only a few hunderd €€ more expensive. It is a little older than the Digiface USB, but it seems it can perform under even lower latency.

The downside is that it needs a PCI express slot in your pc. My current pc does have that, but I wonder if PCIe will become obsolete in a couple of years (like PCI). This will become a problem when I want to upgrade my PC and have to buy a motherboard without a PCIe slot.

Otherwise it seems to have even a few more channels of audio in comparison to the Digiface USB, but of course it is less portable. I also think USB will be there for a very very long time (newer versions of USB are backward compatible - at least until now).

Did anyone compare the two? What do you guys think in terms of being future proof and in terms of difference in performance (latency) and prices? Is it worth to spend a bit more for the PCIe card, or is the difference in latency too small anyway?
Old 1 week ago
  #75
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mvrh's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MPrinsen View Post
So, today I found out there is also a PCIe version of the Digiface USB: the RME HDSPe Raydat, which is only a few hunderd €€ more expensive. It is a little older than the Digiface USB, but it seems it can perform under even lower latency.

The downside is that it needs a PCI express slot in your pc. My current pc does have that, but I wonder if PCIe will become obsolete in a couple of years (like PCI). This will become a problem when I want to upgrade my PC and have to buy a motherboard without a PCIe slot.

Otherwise it seems to have even a few more channels of audio in comparison to the Digiface USB, but of course it is less portable. I also think USB will be there for a very very long time (newer versions of USB are backward compatible - at least until now).

Did anyone compare the two? What do you guys think in terms of being future proof and in terms of difference in performance (latency) and prices? Is it worth to spend a bit more for the PCIe card, or is the difference in latency too small anyway?
So, basically the RME interfaces tick all the boxes for you: enough inputs, as stable as they come, great sound, but you still go out and confuse yourself... Don't go the classic/outdated PC-card route and go get yourself a stable, reliable RME already!
Old 1 week ago
  #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mvrh View Post
So, basically the RME interfaces tick all the boxes for you: enough inputs, as stable as they come, great sound, but you still go out and confuse yourself... Don't go the classic/outdated PC-card route and go get yourself a stable, reliable RME already!
Lol yeah you're right.

Well, the PCIe card is still RME, so that made me consider it...

But I guess you mean it would be better to go the USB route?
Old 1 week ago
  #77
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by MPrinsen View Post
My current pc does have that, but I wonder if PCIe will become obsolete in a couple of years (like PCI). This will become a problem when I want to upgrade my PC and have to buy a motherboard without a PCIe slot.
Considering Apple, The Masters of "He who giveth can also taketh away" with... pretty much every legacy connector, was forced to add back PCIe after a six year absence... The rumors of PCIe's death are greatly exaggerated.
Old 1 week ago
  #78
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mvrh's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MPrinsen View Post
Lol yeah you're right.

Well, the PCIe card is still RME, so that made me consider it...

But I guess you mean it would be better to go the USB route?
Yes I do. That way, it doesn't matter what computer you connect it too. If you go the internal card route, you're binding yourself to always have one with a free, compatible PCIe slot and will be a problem further down the road. And it excludes laptops all together.
Old 1 week ago
  #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mvrh View Post
Yes I do. That way, it doesn't matter what computer you connect it too. If you go the internal card route, you're binding yourself to always have one with a free, compatible PCIe slot and will be a problem further down the road. And it excludes laptops all together.
Thanks for your advice. I didn’t even think about laptops..
Old 1 week ago
  #80
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Narrowed down my choice to the Digiface and 2x 8 i/o adat converters. Still have a hard time choosing them though.. I think 1x ada8200 just for 8 line inputs, and a little better one for the mic pre and outputs. Don’t like the xlr outputs on the ada8200 and I prefer to have trs balances inputs as well for my instruments that have balanced outputs.

Any suggestions? Was looking for a octopre mk2 dynamic, but people seem divided about its sound quality (pre amps and/or converters). Also wondering if the 2nd/3rd gen scarletts are any better?

Will I get different round trip latencies with the different adats connected to the digiface? Does that make a big difference?
Old 1 week ago
  #81
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usedtohaveajuno's Avatar
Wrong move - get the UFX, much better converters
Old 1 week ago
  #82
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M.Retra's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chimera1to1 View Post
Set your budget, check which RME interfaces are available in your price range. You should be able to find a new Fireface 802 for your budget. It’s got 12 analogue inputs. You wire all your gear into a patch bay and then patch instruments in to the AI as you record. At a later date expand with an ADAT unit. Ferrofish are good. The 802 has FX too if you need.

The patchbay allows you to wire all your gear in without having to plug and unplug things from the AI. RME has the lowest latency, best drivers and quality. RME also gives you access to Totalmix - it’s RME’s virtual routing software and enables you to create FX loops etc.
What this member recommended is way out of your budget, but what about the use of a patchbay as mentioned? This is pretty much the same boat I'm currently in these days, and it's looking like the patchbay is the only sensible choice, especially if you want to record--or ever desire the need to record--at higher sampling rates (e.g. 96kHz), and the standard ADAT boxes, like the ADA8200, start to limit themselves rather quickly by halved I/O.

Patchbay's out of the question?
Old 1 week ago
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M.Retra View Post
What this member recommended is way out of your budget, but what about the use of a patchbay as mentioned? This is pretty much the same boat I'm currently in these days, and it's looking like the patchbay is the only sensible choice, especially if you want to record--or ever desire the need to record--at higher sampling rates (e.g. 96kHz), and the standard ADAT boxes, like the ADA8200, start to limit themselves rather quickly by halved I/O.

Patchbay's out of the question?
I don’t see why I should use a patchbay. I’d rather just have every instrument/effect box connected to the audio interface permanently, so I can patch ITB as needed.

Btw, I also see a lot of interfaces with db-25 connectors as analog inputs/outputs. If I’d choose such interface, I think I have to combine it with a patchbay, or would a DB-25 to 8x TRS female cable also work? I’m not keen of extra adapters as it might add noise into te signal. Even patchbays might introduce some extra noise.. so I’d rather directly plug into the interface. But if anyone can convince me I’m wrong, I’d love to hear that
Old 1 week ago
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MPrinsen View Post
I don’t see why I should use a patchbay. I’d rather just have every instrument/effect box connected to the audio interface permanently, so I can patch ITB as needed.

Btw, I also see a lot of interfaces with db-25 connectors as analog inputs/outputs. If I’d choose such interface, I think I have to combine it with a patchbay, or would a DB-25 to 8x TRS female cable also work? I’m not keen of extra adapters as it might add noise into te signal. Even patchbays might introduce some extra noise.. so I’d rather directly plug into the interface. But if anyone can convince me I’m wrong, I’d love to hear that
If it were unbalanced signals it would be one thing, but a decent balanced patchbay would have no noise or signal loss. Most high end audio interfaces like Aurora and Antelope uses DB-25 connectors - to use the Socratic method, are high end audio interfaces intentionally selling gear that costs over $2,000 with purposefully worse audio quality than a cheaper unit with ports directly on the box? They use DB25 not only for the reason its not any worse for audio quality, but more flexible in how you want to set up your studio.

I can use a 100ft long XLR cable, or I can daisy chain ten 10ft XLR cables, as long as the wire gauge is thick enough for the length its a non issue. There might be a tiny amount of noise, as in a scientific reading might pick some up, but nothing that the human ear would notice. Balanced signal is balanced signal.

And yes. DB25 connectors can come in many types. Direct to XLR, direct to 1/4" socket, or wired to a patchbay. For a patchbay you have the freedom of a typical audio interface - a hard stable surface with sockets to plug gear into - but you can physically move the patchbay around. That way if you want to have your computer and audio interface unit in one spot, but the patchbay in another, you can organize it better. It seems like not a big deal, but can help with good studio management.
Old 1 week ago
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hairbow View Post
If it were unbalanced signals it would be one thing, but a decent balanced patchbay would have no noise or signal loss. Most high end audio interfaces like Aurora and Antelope uses DB-25 connectors - to use the Socratic method, are high end audio interfaces intentionally selling gear that costs over $2,000 with purposefully worse audio quality than a cheaper unit with ports directly on the box? They use DB25 not only for the reason its not any worse for audio quality, but more flexible in how you want to set up your studio.

I can use a 100ft long XLR cable, or I can daisy chain ten 10ft XLR cables, as long as the wire gauge is thick enough for the length its a non issue. There might be a tiny amount of noise, as in a scientific reading might pick some up, but nothing that the human ear would notice. Balanced signal is balanced signal.

And yes. DB25 connectors can come in many types. Direct to XLR, direct to 1/4" socket, or wired to a patchbay. For a patchbay you have the freedom of a typical audio interface - a hard stable surface with sockets to plug gear into - but you can physically move the patchbay around. That way if you want to have your computer and audio interface unit in one spot, but the patchbay in another, you can organize it better. It seems like not a big deal, but can help with good studio management.
You make a good point.

What do you call a “decent” balanced patchbay? Will a cheap one add more noise, even when it’s balanced?
Old 1 week ago
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MPrinsen View Post
You make a good point.

What do you call a “decent” balanced patchbay? Will a cheap one add more noise, even when it’s balanced?
With DB25 the only thing where you could get into trouble is a super cheap DB25 connector. Hosa or D'Addario make ones that are garbage, and would introduce noise. With patchbay anything where the socket could get easily worn and disconnect, causing hum or noise. Again - Hosa, ART, those types of companies.

As I posted earlier, the company "Mister Patchbay" sells a 48 input patchbay with DB25 connectors pre-wired for $177. I have it. It sounds C L E A N. you should not have an issue. You can also spend up to $1,000 on just the patchbay, without connectors which also cost upwards of $1,000, but the Mister Patchbay unit is solid. He just buys everything at bulk wholesale and wires by hand.

Going back to your concern about noise/sound quality issues - the theoretical ideal for sound quality is hand wiring everything together and bypassing connectors altogether. The Mister Patchbay hand wires the DB25 directly into the patchbay, which skips a connector step.

https://misterpatchbay.com/patchbays...-patchbay.html
Old 1 week ago
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hairbow View Post
With DB25 the only thing where you could get into trouble is a super cheap DB25 connector. Hosa or D'Addario make ones that are garbage, and would introduce noise. With patchbay anything where the socket could get easily worn and disconnect, causing hum or noise. Again - Hosa, ART, those types of companies.

As I posted earlier, the company "Mister Patchbay" sells a 48 input patchbay with DB25 connectors pre-wired for $177. I have it. It sounds C L E A N. you should not have an issue. You can also spend up to $1,000 on just the patchbay, without connectors which also cost upwards of $1,000, but the Mister Patchbay unit is solid. He just buys everything at bulk wholesale and wires by hand.

Going back to your concern about noise/sound quality issues - the theoretical ideal for sound quality is hand wiring everything together and bypassing connectors altogether. The Mister Patchbay hand wires the DB25 directly into the patchbay, which skips a connector step.

https://misterpatchbay.com/patchbays...-patchbay.html
It's also important to keep in mind that most of the music you've loved your whole life was recorded in studios with craploads of patchbays, connectors, and seemingly miles of cables, for decades now, wayyyy before prewired DB25s even existed, so much of the concerns about noise are vastly overstated.

Don't use cheap crap. Keep cable runs to a minimum. Ignore most of the rest.
Old 1 week ago
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MPrinsen View Post
Narrowed down my choice to the Digiface and 2x 8 i/o adat converters. Still have a hard time choosing them though.. I think 1x ada8200 just for 8 line inputs, and a little better one for the mic pre and outputs. Don’t like the xlr outputs on the ada8200 and I prefer to have trs balances inputs as well for my instruments that have balanced outputs.

Any suggestions? Was looking for a octopre mk2 dynamic, but people seem divided about its sound quality (pre amps and/or converters). Also wondering if the 2nd/3rd gen scarletts are any better?

Will I get different round trip latencies with the different adats connected to the digiface? Does that make a big difference?
I think you have fallen into a big rabbit hole of too many suggestions by well meaning members who think their suggestion is best.
Every time I log on, it seems you've made a different decision.

Not criticizing you because it's human nature when given so many options, and I think everyone has been quite constructive but I think you're in information overload.

It seems you had it narrowed down to a couple of choices.
I know you did your research and have everything you need to make a decision.
I think you're afraid of making the wrong decision which is always possible but at some point you have to just choose one interface, hit the PAY button and wait until it gets in your studio and use it to see if it's right.

Good luck to you.
Old 1 week ago
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seamonkey View Post
...at some point you have to just choose [something], hit the PAY button and wait until it gets in your studio and use it to see if it's right.
Fixed...and exactly.

Analysis paralysis. Gets me every time until I realize how much time I wasted thinking about it.
Old 1 week ago
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seamonkey View Post
I think you have fallen into a big rabbit hole of too many suggestions by well meaning members who think their suggestion is best.
Every time I log on, it seems you've made a different decision.

Not criticizing you because it's human nature when given so many options, and I think everyone has been quite constructive but I think you're in information overload.

It seems you had it narrowed down to a couple of choices.
I know you did your research and have everything you need to make a decision.
I think you're afraid of making the wrong decision which is always possible but at some point you have to just choose one interface, hit the PAY button and wait until it gets in your studio and use it to see if it's right.

Good luck to you.
You are so right. Thanks for helping me out the rabbit hole ;p

Anyway, I have learned a lot from all of you though, thank you all!

Pretty much absorbed all information and am near making the final decision and clicking the pay-button will update when I did
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