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Minimoog Voyager OS- problem with no modulation controllers working
Old 20th July 2019
  #1
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Minimoog Voyager OS- problem with no modulation controllers working

.
It seems that my modulation control is broken in some way. I can select a source and destination OK but when I try and select a controller option and associated amount but nothing changes.

For example if I select LFO as my source, pitch as my destination, mod wheel as the controller starting with an amount of say 2, activating the mod wheel has no effect. When I change the source and or destination the expected effect can be heard but when trying any of the controllers; mod wheel, velocity, pressure, envolopes etc.non of these have any control effect.

I have had a quick check on the internals for any cable disconnects but everthing appears OK.

Am I missing something here, any ideas on how to debug this issue further or have I got a big problem with my Voyager OS.

Any ideas, guidance, thoughts would be most appreciated.
Old 20th July 2019
  #2
TJT
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Possible there's a cc filter setting there. I would probably start with a factory reset after offloading your patches. Then, if that doesn't work, I would update the OS.
Old 20th July 2019
  #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TJT View Post
Possible there's a cc filter setting there. I would probably start with a factory reset after offloading your patches. Then, if that doesn't work, I would update the OS.
This is a Voyager OS so no presets, ccs of firmware as such, this is as analog as you can get, none of this digital stuff.

Thanks for your comment, wish it was as easy as you suggest.
Old 20th July 2019
  #4
vlz
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Are you getting the same problem with both modulation routers? And does that happen with all controllers (including the 'on' knob)?

Do you have a VX351? Can you check if patching things allow you to access controllers?
Old 20th July 2019
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vlz View Post
Are you getting the same problem with both modulation routers? And does that happen with all controllers (including the 'on' knob)?

Do you have a VX351? Can you check if patching things allow you to access controllers?
Yes it appears to be the same on both modualation buses, can you clarify by what you mean the 'on knob'. I'm hoping I've just missed something silly.

I had a VX351 awhile back but passed it on as I was not using it, typical!

I do have a CP 251and other Moog pedals, anything here I can use to debug further?
Old 20th July 2019
  #6
vlz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ukvoyager View Post
Yes it appears to be the same on both modualation buses, can you clarify by what you mean the 'on knob'. I'm hoping I've just missed something silly.

I had a VX351 awhile back but passed it on as I was not using it, typical!

I do have a CP 251and other Moog pedals, anything here I can use to debug further?
The on knob is the 'amount' at the bottom, there is a controller setting for using it directly ('on'). You could try using the CV patch points at the top and try and debug it (i have not got it in front of me to give more direct suggestions), but the VX would have been good as you could tap into the controllers directly.
Old 20th July 2019
  #7
vlz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vlz View Post
The on knob is the 'amount' at the bottom, there is a controller setting for using it directly ('on'). You could try using the CV patch points at the top and try and debug it (i have not got it in front of me to give more direct suggestions), but the VX would have been good as you could tap into the controllers directly.
Also when you say you can change destination/source and hear the effect, is it a full effect them (as if the controller is not attenuating?)
Old 20th July 2019
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vlz View Post
The on knob is the 'amount' at the bottom, there is a controller setting for using it directly ('on'). You could try using the CV patch points at the top and try and debug it (i have not got it in front of me to give more direct suggestions), but the VX would have been good as you could tap into the controllers directly.
OK, understand now what you meant by the 'on knob'. I have moved the amount setting through 0 to 10 but no effect. I do have a Moog expression pedal, just to see if this when plugged into the MOD1 / MOD2 to see if this has any effect.
Old 20th July 2019
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vlz View Post
Also when you say you can change destination/source and hear the effect, is it a full effect them (as if the controller is not attenuating?)
Yes appears to be the full effect and cannot be attenuated by any of the conntrollers.
Old 20th July 2019
  #10
vlz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ukvoyager View Post
Yes appears to be the full effect and cannot be attenuated by any of the conntrollers.
The manual has some diagrams showing the signal path. The controllers seem to set variable
resistances in it.
Old 20th July 2019
  #11
TJT
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Does the Old School allow an external mod wheel to control the bus? If so, you could test it with an external midi controller to try to isolate the issue
Old 20th July 2019
  #12
vlz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TJT View Post
Does the Old School allow an external mod wheel to control the bus? If so, you could test it with an external midi controller to try to isolate the issue
No MIDI on the OS, but it's possible to use CV ad input to the mod busses.
Old 20th July 2019
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vlz View Post
The manual has some diagrams showing the signal path. The controllers seem to set variable resistances in it.
I've had a glance at the mod circuit in the manual and as you say the controllers appear to be setting the amount of modulation via resistance paths.

I've just plugged an expression pedal in the MOD1 / /MOD2 CV inputs and the mod controller problem has changed somewhat. Since plugging / removing / plugging some of the mod control functions have been restored.

The Mod Bus 2 functions appears now working as expected, the Mod 1 bus though is doing some really odd things. I've been able to get the mod wheel contolling pitch and waves but the amount knob has to be set to zero to work as you increase the values the mod control drops to nothing. Using Mod Bus 1 there are also so other bizarre results when changing the mod sources. This also seems to change if you have anything plugged into MOD 1 / MOD CVs.

The problem seem to be with MOD Bus 1 although i've not been able to LFO rate as a destination using Mod Bus 1 or 2 when using the mod wheel as the controller.

Looks to be some sort of control voltage issue somewhere in the modualtion routing.
Old 20th July 2019
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TJT View Post
Does the Old School allow an external mod wheel to control the bus? If so, you could test it with an external midi controller to try to isolate the issue
No midi on a Moog Voyager Old School (OS)
Old 20th July 2019
  #15
vlz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ukvoyager View Post
I've had a glance at the mod circuit in the manual and as you say the controllers appear to be setting the amount of modulation via resistance paths.

I've just plugged an expression pedal in the MOD1 / /MOD2 CV inputs and the mod controller problem has changed somewhat. Since plugging / removing / plugging some of the mod control functions have been restored.

The Mod Bus 2 functions appears now working as expected, the Mod 1 bus though is doing some really odd things. I've been able to get the mod wheel contolling pitch and waves but the amount knob has to be set to zero to work as you increase the values the mod control drops to nothing. Using Mod Bus 1 there are also so other bizarre results when changing the mod sources. This also seems to change if you have anything plugged into MOD 1 / MOD CVs.

The problem seem to be with MOD Bus 1 although i've not been able to LFO rate as a destination using Mod Bus 1 or 2 when using the mod wheel as the controller.

Looks to be some sort of control voltage issue somewhere in the modualtion routing.
Maybe you will need to look at the circuitboard, perhaps some lines are semi broken, or maybe there's some dust. How did this come about? Did you move it recently?
Old 20th July 2019
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vlz View Post
Maybe you will need to look at the circuitboard, perhaps some lines are semi broken, or maybe there's some dust. How did this come about? Did you move it recently?
Some more progress with MOD 1 Bus functions. I've left the Voyager running for an hour or so, I'm getting the controller functions working again to a degree. The odd thing is that the Amount value on the Mod 1 Bus must be set to zero or near zero for the modualtions to work, increasing the Amount value decreases the amount of moduation to zero. Mod Bus 2 Amount seems to be working as expected. I don't understand this at the moment!

I did look at the circuit boards, keyboard / left hand controllers and main circuit boards, all look good as new.

I have not been using the Voyager for quite awhile, (the Moog One has been occupying all my time), it's been stored in it's case in my studio so no significant temperature changes etc. When I first used it last week the input CVs, gate and pitch, were connected to a Minimoog D CV ouptut. Makes me wonder if this is behind the current problem. Can't think how this would cause the issue but that's the only out of the ordinary use of the Voyager recently.

My head hurst!!
Old 20th July 2019
  #17
TJT
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ukvoyager View Post
Some more progress with MOD 1 Bus functions. I've left the Voyager running for an hour or so, I'm getting the controller functions working again to a degree. The odd thing is that the Amount value on the Mod 1 Bus must be set to zero or near zero for the modualtions to work, increasing the Amount value decreases the amount of moduation to zero. Mod Bus 2 Amount seems to be working as expected. I don't understand this at the moment!

I did look at the circuit boards, keyboard / left hand controllers and main circuit boards, all look good as new.

I have not been using the Voyager for quite awhile, (the Moog One has been occupying all my time), it's been stored in it's case in my studio so no significant temperature changes etc. When I first used it last week the input CVs, gate and pitch, were connected to a Minimoog D CV ouptut. Makes me wonder if this is behind the current problem. Can't think how this would cause the issue but that's the only out of the ordinary use of the Voyager recently.

My head hurst!!
Have you tried just turning your Mod Amount knob about 30 times back and forth?
Old 20th July 2019
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TJT View Post
Have you tried just turning your Mod Amount knob about 30 times back and forth?
A few time but not that many as yet, I will leave it on for a period and work the Mod Amount pot some more times, there's something going on with the control voltages I think. I wonder if there are any calibration pots on the motherboard for setting the values for the mod contollers? it's almost like the Mod Amount controller is working in reverse, crazy!!
Old 20th July 2019
  #19
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Sounds like you may have the faulty TI chip issue:

https://forum.moogmusic.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=24937

Unfortunately that means a repair to or replacement of the analog board.
Old 20th July 2019
  #20
vlz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlanC3 View Post
Sounds like you may have the faulty TI chip issue:

https://forum.moogmusic.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=24937

Unfortunately that means a repair to or replacement of the analog board.
That seems to affect normal Voyagers, not sure if it applies to the fully analogue OS.
Old 20th July 2019
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vlz View Post
That seems to affect normal Voyagers, not sure if it applies to the fully analogue OS.
It does seem to affect both:

https://forum.moogmusic.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=24649
Old 20th July 2019
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlanC3 View Post
Sounds like you may have the faulty TI chip issue:

https://forum.moogmusic.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=24937

Unfortunately that means a repair to or replacement of the analog board.
I remember this, I thought my serial number was outside the range but this now makes sense. I will contact Moog on Monday.
Old 20th July 2019
  #23
TJT
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i wish they would issue a service manual for the Voyagers now that they are discontinued.
Old 20th July 2019
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ukvoyager View Post
I remember this, I thought my serial number was outside the range but this now makes sense. I will contact Moog on Monday.
otherwise ask rudi ... he has developed the os ..

http://www.lintronics.de/
Old 20th July 2019
  #25
vlz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ukvoyager View Post
I remember this, I thought my serial number was outside the range but this now makes sense. I will contact Moog on Monday.
Keep us posted, let us know if you have specific info about serial numbers affected. I have to check mine when I have it set up again. Got me worried now, although I had it for about ten years without any issues.
Old 20th July 2019
  #26
Send your unit to service. I would be glad to help but unfortunately it is illegal for me to to post Voyager schematic. One CMOS chip needs replacement and probably one 072.
Old 20th July 2019
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Solaris View Post
Send your unit to service. I would be glad to help but unfortunately it is illegal for me to to post Voyager schematic. One CMOS chip needs replacement and probably one 072.
Thanks for the info, yes I think service it is, I've messaged Moog this evening. I'm in the UK unfortunately so not such an easy task to get hold of an analog board replacement. I'm Ok with doing a board change, a chip replacement would be a bit more challenging.

I hope can work something out with Moog.
Old 20th July 2019
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vlz View Post
Keep us posted, let us know if you have specific info about serial numbers affected. I have to check mine when I have it set up again. Got me worried now, although I had it for about ten years without any issues.
I will let you know how it goes. Here is the original note from Moog about the issue and the serial numbers involved. My serial number is outsided the range but the date of maufacturer is not:


Dear Registered Owner of the Minimoog Voyager:

This is a follow-up to the letter I sent on January 19th. First, I want to thank you all for the very positive response we have received. As you can see, we take the quality of our products and our service to you very seriously. The problem stated in the January letter has only become apparent in the last few months, but we are committed to doing what is necessary to rectify it.

Minimoog Voyager owners are as passionate about their instrument as we are. Not surprisingly, following the January letter, our Service Department has received numerous calls. However, 90% of these inquiries have been unnecessary and so I’d like to clarify the following:

The problem stated in the January letter only affects Minimoog Voyagers built between mid-2010 and January 2013 with the following serial numbers: Select Series 829-1724, Performer 2990-3445, Electric Blue 1506-2075, RME 1330-1925, XL 1-545, and Lunar Select Series 1-57. If your Minimoog Voyager is not within this serial number range, you should not expect these issues and we would appreciate it if you do not unnecessarily burden our small Service Staff with a call.

If your Minimoog Voyager is not exhibiting problems, then there is no need for you to be concerned. We are confident that the issues previously identified have already materialized in 99% of the instruments that will experience the problem. Therefore, if you are not experiencing problems currently, you should not expect to in the future.

The problem identified in the January letter is more prevalent in countries with 220V power systems. Those countries with 110/120V power, like the USA and Japan, have less cause for concern.

And finally, if you have a Minimoog Voyager within the above serial number range and it is exhibiting an issue unrelated to those stated in the January letter, then we will handle it for you, but it will be serviced outside of any warranty.
Thank you for being our customer.

Sincerely,
Michael Adams
President Moog Music Inc.
Old 20th July 2019
  #29
Yeah i know all about that letter.

That letter happened because of one post that i wrote on this forum about Moog and TI chips. They requested me to delete the post which i did and in return they created the letter. So it all end up good. They are fair-play company.

Essentially one generation of Voyagers are time bombs with a batch of bad TI chips.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #30
vlz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Solaris View Post
Yeah i know all about that letter.

That letter happened because of one post that i wrote on this forum about Moog and TI chips. They requested me to delete the post which i did and in return they created the letter. So it all end up good. They are fair-play company.

Essentially one generation of Voyagers are time bombs with a batch of bad TI chips.
but they failed to mention the Voyager OS in the letter. I think mine is older (2009) but I will definitely check.
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