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Syncing a Daw to my TR-909, TB-303 and Juno 6
Old 11th June 2019
  #1
Gear Maniac
Syncing a Daw to my TR-909, TB-303 and Juno 6

I recently acquired some old gear and now want to incoorperate it in a liveset. My idea: Ableton as master a > TR-909 (slave) > Doepfer MSY2 MIDI klok (to sync midi to dynsinc) > TB-303 (slave). With my TR-909, I want to sync the clock of the Juno 6 arp with the Rimshot trick. I feel like this would give me most flexibility, because I can add infinite stuff in Ableton (like fx etc.) next to the hardware. Would this all work? I also know about the Roland SBX-1 to sync midi and DIN and add stuff like swing, but I dont know for sure if the pricetag is really worth it as only a syncing device?
Old 13th June 2019
  #2
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yes/probably unless 909 has (fabled) midi issues.
nice thing you can do with juno (60) is hold a chord and have it triggered, without doing an arp. think the 6 is cv+gate, so you'd really want to be finding a solution for that as well. (any old cv+gate converter unit)
don't think you'd need to splash on the SBX or Doepfer if you're dinsyncing from the 909.
Old 13th June 2019
  #3
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usedtohaveajuno's Avatar
Yes it will work - my advice is to run the TR-909 off it's Sync input, rather than midi - you can get a Din Sync one->two lead (basically a Y-shaped cable), I have one) if you only have a single Din output on your Midi->Din convertor.

So Ableton midi out->Din Sync->TR-909/TB-303
TR-909 rimshot -> Juno60

The TR-909 will swing whatever way you set it up and the TB303 doesn't sound that great when it's being swung - I have a Din Sync convertor with swing on it and TBH I don't use it, it doesn't sound as natural as the 909 doing it itself.

Will be much fun
Old 24th August 2019
  #4
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Jaybird's Avatar
Hi guys, I want to get the same setup only slightly different.

TR-303/606/909/Juno 60 and a massive modular wall.

Studio 88 modular midi out->Din Sync->TR-909/TB-303
TR-909 rimshot -> JUNO60

?

AM I correct? Do I need a beat station pro or a dyn syc box or cable?
Old 24th August 2019
  #5
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Just remember to be careful splitting as your going to be be using the 60 SPLIT -> 909 -> 303
>_________> ~ split 1 Voltage—>303 …
[ Juno 60
>__________> ~ split 2 Voltage—>909 …

So from the diagram above you’ll want to make certain that Voltage sag and Gate/Clock to VCF Filter don’t affect lower down streaming Instruments. The very exact reason Midi are powered using Opto Isolstors.

Look at Kenton or like and grab a decent box with All options that will let you grow your collection. My preference wouldn’t be buying a newer type Roland or Korg CV unit though a specialist maker offering a problem solving unit.

Good luck
TLB
Old 25th August 2019
  #6
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Jaybird's Avatar
thanks for all the info, is this to low end?
https://reverb.com/item/4783410-kent..._source=google...
Old 25th August 2019
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaybird View Post
Hi guys, I want to get the same setup only slightly different.

TR-303/606/909/Juno 60 and a massive modular wall.

Studio 88 modular midi out->Din Sync->TR-909/TB-303
TR-909 rimshot -> JUNO60

?

AM I correct? Do I need a beat station pro or a dyn syc box or cable?
get a midi kit for your juno-60. it's what i regret not doing when i had one, but there weren't very many options at the time, and less sophisticated and more expensive. and you will still be able to send triggers to the ju60 clock in (i reckon).
Old 25th August 2019
  #8
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Jaybird's Avatar
your spot on the midi kit, ill have to wait till next year but yes Juno 66.

I think the juno sounds better then most synths,
Old 25th August 2019
  #9
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basehead617's Avatar
SBX-1 is my recommendation.

And i’d never use 909 other than triggering directly via MIDI.. using its own sequencer makes no sense to me.
Old 25th August 2019
  #10
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Jaybird's Avatar
I have rev 1 909 and the new CPU. My tech is kind of worried about messing it up

However he has worked on my juno that was SMASHED and its ok now.
the Boss SBX-1 is expensive but if its the killer box ill save up.
My mini moog is also midi. Id want a global touring rig I can take on an airplane with no computer really,
Id use tablets to do stuff though.,
Old 25th August 2019
  #11
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usedtohaveajuno's Avatar
If all you wanr is your 909/303 to sync with your modules / DAW then You certainly don’t need an SBX-1 - you need a simple midi -> din sync or indeed some module in your eurorwck to din sync -> 909/303 as described above

How are you sending CV to your modular from your PC? That might make the case for the SBX-1
Old 25th August 2019
  #12
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other options: MSQ700 as sequencer for ju60 via DCB. has dinsync and midi.
you can always recoup profitably later once you've done the midi upgrade, if you find a cheap one.

i cannot remember what the MSQ100 and jsq60 do - ??
Old 25th August 2019
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaybird View Post
I think the juno sounds better then most synths,
yeh. it's just there. which is why i'd now like someone to do a small tabletop repro. always have it close to hand, easy to pack up and go etc.
Old 25th August 2019
  #14
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vekter303's Avatar
MSQ100 hasnt got the DCB for Juno.

Be aware that the MSQ700 will do MIDI or DCB but not both at same time. So not a bad shout if you only want to sequence the Juno. Of course it wont be integrated in a MIDI setup.


The Y-Splitter cables are cheap on Amazon and Kenton make one too. Ive used one from the 909s second channel sequencing two other bits of gear with no hassles. Also used to split either 606 DINSync signal to 202 or 303. As the other post says further down a chain you would be better with somthing like that Kenton box.

I have used their MIDI merge and MIDI thru devices. They also have a pretty good rep generally.

Last edited by vekter303; 25th August 2019 at 02:14 PM.. Reason: confusion
Old 25th August 2019
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vekter303 View Post
Be aware that the MSQ700 will do MIDI or DCB but not both at same time. So not a bad shout if you only want to sequence the Juno. Of course it wont be integrated in a MIDI setup.
ah. thanks for clearing that up. and will it sync to dinsync while running DCB?
Old 25th August 2019
  #16
Deleted 402456e
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whatever17 View Post
ah. thanks for clearing that up. and will it sync to dinsync while running DCB?
The Roland SBX series of Midi/Din-Sync converters will do the job, they output both midi and din-sync at the same time. SBX-10 and SBX-80. Or Roland's newer SBX-1 will do the same. Or try and find a second hand a innerclock sync-gen II.
Old 25th August 2019
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaybird View Post
thanks for all the info, is this to low end?
https://reverb.com/item/4783410-kent..._source=google...
definitely too low end, everything other than snd acme-4 sucks tbh
Old 25th August 2019
  #18
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vekter303's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by whatever17 View Post
ah. thanks for clearing that up. and will it sync to dinsync while running DCB?
Yep...

Roland msq700 - midi sync & dcb sequence?

blinky909 and Futureman84 with the confirmation.

Different pathway I guess for DINSync.
Old 25th August 2019
  #19
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Rufuss Sewell's Avatar
I sync all of my Din Sync gear from Logic with various boxes.

I have a 101, 303, 505, 606, 707, 808, TR-77, CR-78, Juno 60 and Jupiter 8 all synced together.

I start with a swing box, I have 2. Swynx and a little DIY passive box I bought on eBay from a guy in Australia. Both work well but the Swynx has a ton of extra features like odd meters and polyrhythms and lets me sync and program my CR-78 so it gets the job most of the time. The DIY box is only used if I want something to have a different swing setting for a complex groove.

Then I send that signal out to 2x Kenton Din Sync 5 splitters. That gives me 9 Din Sync outputs. If I just want arps on the Juno and Jupiter then that’s the end of it.

If I want to sequence the Juno and Jupiter I use midi. The JP8 has encore midi and the Juno uses a Kenton DCB box. All of this syncs perfectly with my System 100m cases and Eurorack setup. On that side I use a Minibrute 2S sequencer and Expert Sleepers ES-3 to output CV and gate from Reaktor Blocks etc. Or even audio to be processed through various modules and effects.

I feel like it’s been a 30 year journey to get all of this old gear and modern plug ins to work together, with all of these Rosetta Stone like boxes, but it’s finally very satisfying to just turn on Logic and have all of this stuff work together.
Attached Thumbnails
Syncing a Daw to my TR-909, TB-303 and Juno 6-400b62a3-a15d-4d8b-88ee-a9e6a7a27a93.jpg   Syncing a Daw to my TR-909, TB-303 and Juno 6-8927afed-2ae5-4c93-82ea-d9cf22d226c8.jpg  
Old 25th August 2019
  #20
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vekter303's Avatar
The MSQ-700 has been a handy solution for a little Roland cell I use separate from my main setup. Never fortunate enough to have the older Junos but have also used the MSQ-100 along with an AlphaJuno2, all works well.

MSQ-700 would be quite a nice solution for integrating the gear mentioned DIN Sync 303/606/909 and Juno with DCB.

If the SBX-80 is being considered then its worth noting that its fussy about its MIDI in/thru function, doesnt really function as a DIN Sync/MIDI converter. I dont own one but theres some comprehensive threads on here, I had considered it a while back. SBX-10 more suitable.

SBX-1 look pretty useful for synching all that gear and even more if USB is being used but not really helping with the Juno 60 for Jaybird.

Last edited by vekter303; 26th August 2019 at 05:55 PM.. Reason: umm...okay :)
Old 26th August 2019
  #21
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Jaybird's Avatar
in the short term, while I do all that above...
Whats a cheap ass solution for dyn sync on the ghetto?

I can get some of the midi upgrades just cant drop $1K right now...
Old 26th August 2019
  #22
Old 26th August 2019
  #23
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this one, the Kenton, it's in the USA. 85 usd

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Kenton-D-...8AAOSwoixcrk5~

only giving you one sync out though. but it does both ways.
don't you just need to extend the din out pins to another din socket to have another output? quick bodge mod somehow?

you need an mc202 as a splitter :-D

touchprone cheaper here:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Touchpron...MAAOxy0bRTCBn0
Old 26th August 2019
  #24
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i have this, from somewhere... what is it for?
(really old, from carbootsale or something)

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ALM-Busy-...QAAOSwQZVcClJ1



oh wow, so i could funk up my dinsync with a clock from something, and a gate from something, right?
Old 27th August 2019
  #25
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aciiid's Avatar
 

hey, i didnt want to open a new thread for my question , so maybe somebody can help me here.
i want to sync my 606,707 and xoxbox with ableton (ableton as master clock).
at the moment i got the problem that as soon i press play in ableton, the synths are not playing in sync 100%.
it also seems like my recording in ableton has some latency because of the unstable midi clock from ableton.

could the MSY-2 solve my sync/timing problem or are there any other options which are not super expencive or user unfriendly like the multiclock, sbx 1 or USAMO?
Old 27th August 2019
  #26
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by aciiid View Post
hey, i didnt want to open a new thread for my question , so maybe somebody can help me here.
i want to sync my 606,707 and xoxbox with ableton (ableton as master clock).
at the moment i got the problem that as soon i press play in ableton, the synths are not playing in sync 100%.
it also seems like my recording in ableton has some latency because of the unstable midi clock from ableton.

could the MSY-2 solve my sync/timing problem or are there any other options which are not super expencive or user unfriendly like the multiclock, sbx 1 or USAMO?
With the multiclock you can adjust different start in delays of different hardware sequencers and you'll have all of them in the grid Same with SND Acme. It might be expensive but if you're running a hybrid setup it will pay off and you will be happy that you made that investment. What's user unfriendly about the Multiclock?
Old 27th August 2019
  #27
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aciiid's Avatar
 

thx for the reply, the biggest issue with the multiclock or acme is the price. it would cost more than most of my equipment...
it seems to be that the USAMO is pretty user unfriendly at least thats what some comments say.
Old 27th August 2019
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aciiid View Post
thx for the reply, the biggest issue with the multiclock or acme is the price. it would cost more than most of my equipment...
it seems to be that the USAMO is pretty user unfriendly at least thats what some comments say.
The usamo won't allow you to compensate start in delays of different machines, the only thing it will do is giving a "jitter free" clock. I am working with a hybrid setup too mostly using the on board sequencers of my hardware while using fx, samples and sometimes drumloops in the daw. I've went through hell for years trying to get everything to sync up perfectly and after deep frustration I spent the money for a Multiclock and it was the best decision I've made since the entire workflow and setup made a big profit. Sometimes tools which don't look like fun and expensive for what they do at first sight will bring more fun to an existing setup which didn't work flawless at second sight.
Old 30th August 2019
  #29
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Jaybird's Avatar
I just got the Korg Midi Synchronizer KMS30 new in box ($50)
What cables do I need for

TR-303/606/909/Juno 60
Old 30th August 2019
  #30
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usedtohaveajuno's Avatar
It's got 2 DIN SYNC out ports, so to power 3 DIN SYNC devices you need a normal din cable and a y-shaped din cable (one in, two out - normally called a splitter) - you can get those off ebay, just make sure it's for DIN SYNC.

For the normal DIN cable, try a midi lead first. It might work if they've not wired it lazy. If no MIDI cables anyway, just buy din sync cables (all 5 pins wired).

You need a quarter inch phono jack cable to connect your 909 to the Juno.
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