The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
 Search This Thread  Search This Forum  Search Reviews  Search Gear Database  Search Synths for sale  Search Gearslutz Go Advanced
If the Analog Four has no MIDI OUT how come it can play the octatrack via MIDI?
Old 1 week ago
  #1
Deleted be0883d 
Guest
If the Analog Four has no MIDI OUT how come it can play the octatrack via MIDI?

I don't get this

why can it trigger notes on the Octatrack through a MIDI cable from it's MIDI OUT but it can't sequence other pieces of gear?
Old 1 week ago
  #2
Lives for gear
 

because there is no midi sequencer in the A4
Old 1 week ago
  #3
Gear Head
 

Because analog four does have midi out. Just no midi sequencer.
Old 1 week ago
  #4
Lives for gear
 
mutilatedlip's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wajn View Post
I don't get this

why can it trigger notes on the Octatrack through a MIDI cable from it's MIDI OUT but it can't sequence other pieces of gear?
Its probably synced via MIDI to the Octatrack sequencer.
Old 1 week ago
  #5
Lives for gear
 

Because it's deliberately crippled. I would bet the internal sequencer is based off of midi commands. They just don't want any one machine to do enough that you only need one.
Old 1 week ago
  #6
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vertflyer View Post
Because it's deliberately crippled. I would bet the internal sequencer is based off of midi commands. They just don't want any one machine to do enough that you only need one.
There's an argument it should output midi, I wouldn't make that bet on its sequencer though.

I find A4/digitakt an awesome combo. A4 providing song mode to DT, DT can sequence other gear (8x midi lanes).

Having some modular, I'd take the 4x CV over midi sequencing too, it's a hard to beat CV sequencer.

Anyhow it is what it is, people have been moaning for years!
Old 1 week ago
  #7
Lives for gear
 
Jamie munro's Avatar
Any new perspective on this deader than dead donkey?

No?

Carry on then

It can send clock and PC, it sequences across cv, happy days.
Old 1 week ago
  #8
Deleted be0883d 
Guest
I'm quite happy with the fact that you need more machines, gives u more control on the mixing board.
If my Rytm - Four and Octatrack would be inside 1 machine it would be a clumsy machine with too many controls and a bad overview
Imagine a machine that has 12+4+8 layers and like 20+ outputs?
Things would get messy pretty quickly.

And idk just strange that you can trigger the octatrack with the analog four.. It also real time triggers external gear (moog slim phatty etc..) but it cant do it straight away...
I find this strange.. as if theres midi coding or something that states you can only trigger the octatrack...
maybe someone with some hacking skills can make the analog four sequence other gear?
This would be very interesting & maybe just maybe its the same for the rytm?

Imagine someone inventing a way to "hack" this. Imagine the Rytm with midi sequencing and sampling... The most insane drumcomputer will be born!!
Old 1 week ago
  #9
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vertflyer View Post
Because it's deliberately crippled. I would bet the internal sequencer is based off of midi commands. They just don't want any one machine to do enough that you only need one.
You are most probably right about Elektron's scummy video game marketing tactics but the internal sequencer is NOT "based off of" MIDI commands!
And, the correct wording is " based on". You almost never need to use "off of" ("off'" is sufficient) and it sounds annoying as hell.
Old 1 week ago
  #10
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
I'm quite happy with the fact that you need more machines, gives u more control on the mixing board.
If my Rytm - Four and Octatrack
People will go to some length find reasons to justify their gear purchases, and Elektron's greed.

In practice I think many will find that using one box to sequence everything is more productive, tighter, and more fun. I would get rid of the Analogs (which sound lame) and keep the OT for sequencing duties ( it also sounds lame).
Old 1 week ago
  #11
Gear Maniac
 

You guys are gonna get so angry when you realise that A4 has audio inputs but doesn't do sampling. Octatrack has audio inputs and does sampling, why not A4? Deliberate marketing tactic I reckon...
Old 1 week ago
  #12
Gear Guru
 
fiddlestickz's Avatar
Something not right about the sound of the A4 and analog RYTM..I had both for a while but the sound just grated on me constantly, real shame cause I like having so much power in a box like that.
Old 1 week ago
  #13
Deleted be0883d 
Guest
Analog Rytm and Analog Four sound amazing if u use balanced cables & learn how to handle them...
Use the right samples with the rytm and u get a rhythm eating monster... The baslines, arps and drums, kicks, perc, you name it; comming from the analog four are insane..
The analog rytm has a bigger kick than my jomox xbase 999 from time tot time. Have thought about selling the jomox and buying another rytm.
Once you master these machines things get big
And not the mastering like "i know how it works and it doesn't sound the way i want it to sound". You need to work around, find sweetspots, sometimes for weeks and weeks on that one single track, making it perfect.

I get why they cost this "much" (second handed and mk1 they don't even cost that much anymore btw)

Aside from the sound & stuff

its idd strange that the inputs won"t sample. However there are so many synths and drumcomputers with inputs that can't sample.. so...

Elektron stuff is damn good
The midi part of it is just confusing.. Its probably just a stupid (working) marketing trick idd

I wish they could make a new firmware and fix this. Even a korg esx can trigger external gear, it's just sad

However owning the trinity is great.
Aside from the midi side of things I could not be happier with these machines.
The layering possibilities , learning curve that never ends (you keep discovering new stuff every month),..
It's live-set heaven for me personally.
Old 1 week ago
  #14
Lives for gear
 
Jamie munro's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by pete1024 View Post
You guys are gonna get so angry when you realise that A4 has audio inputs but doesn't do sampling. Octatrack has audio inputs and does sampling, why not A4? Deliberate marketing tactic I reckon...
FUNNY THING:

LOTS of my synths have audio in and yet don't sample - conspiracy
Old 1 week ago
  #15
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by pete1024 View Post
You guys are gonna get so angry when you realise that A4 has audio inputs but doesn't do sampling. Octatrack has audio inputs and does sampling, why not A4? Deliberate marketing tactic I reckon...
This is a very different case. In order to sample you need dedicated RAM for sampling. In order to output MIDI on a device that has a MIDI out you basically just need a few lines of codes sending a MIDI message with each notes to the MIDI output, there is absolutely no need for another physical component in the device.

Now Elektron never promised anything obviously and MIDI sequencing isn't part of the specs, but let's not pretend that's an engineering decision, it's purely marketing. especially when the internal sequencer is basically the same as the other Elektron devices which can output MIDI.
Old 1 week ago
  #16
Lives for gear
 
jbuonacc's Avatar
why would anyone expect the A4 to be able to sample incoming audio? we've reached a new low in stupidity.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Deleted be0883d View Post
Analog Rytm and Analog Four sound amazing if u use balanced cables & learn how to handle them ... Once you master these machines things get big ... And not the mastering like "i know how it works and it doesn't sound the way i want it to sound". You need to work around, find sweetspots, sometimes for weeks and weeks on that one single track, making it perfect.
yeah, let's spend weeks "mastering" a machine that sounds like crap just to get something acceptable out of it. sounds like fun.

(no real opinion on the sound of the AR or A4, i do wonder what i'd think of them myself. just saying that's how it reads. if someone tried saying this about the DrumBrute i'd tell them they're nuts.)
Old 1 week ago
  #17
Deleted be0883d 
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbuonacc View Post
why would anyone expect the A4 to be able to sample incoming audio? we've reached a new low in stupidity.




yeah, let's spend weeks "mastering" a machine that sounds like crap just to get something acceptable out of it. sounds like fun.

(no real opinion on the sound of the AR or A4, i do wonder what i'd think of them myself. just saying that's how it reads. if someone tried saying this about the DrumBrute i'd tell them they're nuts.)
Its just not the same as other drumcomputers/ your daw

You need to listen and work in another way

at first i couldnt make any great songs with the elektron machines

after months of experimenting and learning & not giving up
I finally managed to make songs that couldn't be made inside a DAW
and then i understood they why and also why they are that good

they are insanely good and sound insanely good
it's just the person behind them

drumbrute and stuff like that is total ****.
Old 1 week ago
  #18
Lives for gear
 
jbuonacc's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wajn View Post
... at first i couldnt make any great songs with the elektron machines

after months of experimenting and learning & not giving up
I finally managed to make songs that couldn't be made inside a DAW
and then i understood they why and also why they are that good
i'm not sure that i believe this, but i'd be curious to hear an example (and would be happy to agree with you if you're right). haven't checked out any A4 demos in a while, not seeing much now that would fit your description of "couldn't be made inside a DAW". i've always been impressed with it overall for what it is. i'm actually surprised that so many people don't like the sound, i think the functionality/possibilities of it are astounding.

i've got a few things recorded from when i had an MD-UW that i've thought the same about, but that's due to a few specific things. even then, listening now i'm not so sure. ... with the OT i was always thinking "why bother? i could do this so much better/quicker ITB." bought/sold twice, same with the MD-UW (hated the sound of it after a while so maybe i understand what they mean about the A4).

Quote:
they are insanely good and sound insanely good
it's just the person behind them
there is much to be said for confidence, i'll give you that.
Old 1 week ago
  #19
Deleted be0883d 
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbuonacc View Post
i'm not sure that i believe this, but i'd be curious to hear an example (and would be happy to agree with you if you're right). haven't checked out any A4 demos in a while, not seeing much now that would fit your description of "couldn't be made inside a DAW". i've always been impressed with it overall for what it is. i'm actually surprised that so many people don't like the sound, i think the functionality/possibilities of it are astounding.

i've got a few things recorded from when i had an MD-UW that i've thought the same about, but that's due to a few specific things. even then, listening now i'm not so sure. ... with the OT i was always thinking "why bother? i could do this so much better/quicker ITB." bought/sold twice, same with the MD-UW (hated the sound of it after a while so maybe i understand what they mean about the A4).



there is much to be said for confidence, i'll give you that.
Well

Let me put it this way. When u learn an instrument... it takes alot of time to master. I was 12 when i started playing guitar. It took me 1 year to understand basics and 5 more to become good at it. 7 years in total before i started teaching.

The rytm - ot - four
Are INSTRUMENTS.
They take time and they are insane in the right hands. U get that analog sound but u get a hands on play with a more instrument like feel & for sure way more direct response than a daw.

dit u get an analog mastering Rack with your setup?
Limiter-compressors - another limiter and maximizer,...

U cant expect your liveset to sound as good without this layer on top

Its the total i thing
A mixer, super nice and personal fx pedals u collect throughout the years, compressors, limiters, good drumcomputers and synths

Its truely just how far u want to go
I know ur daw is great and sounds great
But i would never state it will sound better than elektron gear or moog,...
-> its not the synth its the person behind them

Thats what i learned
My daw is idd easier, bitwig, ableton, i still use them on the bus or as a break at work
But still
I couldnt let me gear sound like a DAW
When i said “man i suck”
And read all manuals over and over and found my style of doing things, created my own sounds and got some more skills. Starting to play the OT and four with a guitar, learning the ins and outs of their inner connection...
Thats when things got real.

If they sound bad its not the gear its you
And youre better with your Daw, end of story
Unless you’re willing to put more effort in it

U can play guitar good or play it really good or play it legendary good
Its just how much time and effort ald interest u have for it to become that good with whatever instrument including your DAW
Its just that retriggering, other tricks and analog filters & limiters and compressors (the whole setup) will blow away ny digital production.
U just need to find that sweet, personally working combo.

I get the point i questioned it millions times
Thinking “my daw is easier and so its better”
However it are two different worlds in the end its your choice. But ive come to realise that i choose the right analog over any daw. Ever seen Ansome play? Hears him live?
Or when u record your band, using the big sly or other high end gear
It never sounds the same when recorded
The intensity, frequencies and warmth is never the same
Old 1 week ago
  #20
Lives for gear
 
jbuonacc's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wajn View Post
Well

Let me put it this way. ...
thanks for the laugh, i guess? that's all nonsense.
Old 1 week ago
  #21
Gear Maniac
 

Elektron is Scandanavian right? Maybe that explains all the Stockholm Syndrome here...

"I love having to spend more money!"
Old 1 week ago
  #22
Lives for gear
 

Yeah it's a pretty mindblowing limitation. I was about to get one and luckily I discovered this before buying it.

It's an expensive and unelegant solution, but as the sequencer can supposedly be routed through the CV outs, I'd assume you could make it sequence external gear through a CV-MIDI converter. Unless Elektron somehow made sure that wouldn't work either
Old 1 week ago
  #23
Deleted be0883d 
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbuonacc View Post
thanks for the laugh, i guess? that's all nonsense.
Your face is nonsense..

Its fine if u think its funny

Cant experience this if you havent had the chance to
If you dont want to thats fine. Its expensive but to some its the only fluent way to really express their music. It is what it is.
Old 1 week ago
  #24
Lives for gear
 
jbuonacc's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wajn View Post
... Cant experience this if you havent had the chance to
If you dont want to thats fine. Its expensive but to some its the only fluent way to really express their music. It is what it is.
i started out 20+ years ago, i've owned/used a good number of synths, drum machines, etc... i've experienced plenty, as far as workflow and "expression".

the Elektron boxes are about as close to being a "real instrument" as a cash register. ...or at least no more so than something like Maschine/Komplete Kontrol or Ableton/Push. have you experienced that yourself?
Old 1 week ago
  #25
Deleted be0883d 
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbuonacc View Post
i started out 20+ years ago, i've owned/used a good number of synths, drum machines, etc... i've experienced plenty, as far as workflow and "expression".

the Elektron boxes are about as close to being a "real instrument" as a cash register. ...or at least no more so than something like Maschine/Komplete Kontrol or Ableton/Push. have you experienced that yourself?
Used apc40 since 16 years & ableton push 2 now

Idk man, i think you’ve got the wrong idea of what instruments are & can be
Saying an analog four, rytm or octatrack arent instruments is kinda weird.. if u play them with guitar or keyboard they are instruments.. even without they are instruments?

& who knows, cash register may the next great thing. Play that ****

Conclusion: Elektron is made by the devil

you do your thing
Old 1 week ago
  #26
Lives for gear
 
Jamie munro's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbuonacc View Post
i started out 20+ years ago, i've owned/used a good number of synths, drum machines, etc... i've experienced plenty, as far as workflow and "expression".

the Elektron boxes are about as close to being a "real instrument" as a cash register. ...or at least no more so than something like Maschine/Komplete Kontrol or Ableton/Push. have you experienced that yourself?
3rd century of music tech myself

opinions are all our own but of course they are instruments, in the same way a mono or poly is, the same way maschine is etc

calling them or any other electronic instrument anything but an instrument is below par imo
Old 1 week ago
  #27
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamie munro View Post
3rd century of music tech myself
Wow. I'm only in my second decade
Old 1 week ago
  #28
Lives for gear
 
Jamie munro's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by HUBA View Post
Wow. I'm only in my second decade
ya wee whippersnapper

thanks for that at myself now
Old 1 week ago
  #29
Lives for gear
 
jbuonacc's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamie munro View Post
... of course they are instruments, in the same way a mono or poly is, the same way maschine is etc

calling them or any other electronic instrument anything but an instrument is below par imo
right on, sometimes you just need to exaggerate to make a point. anyone that thinks there's some "instrumental" difference between a metal box with some buttons on it and a good software/controller combo have their wires crossed.

even still, as far as "expression" goes, for some reason i'll always have a hard time with the idea of a synth (as expressive as they are) being compared to a string or wind instrument. less so with percussion.
Old 1 week ago
  #30
Lives for gear
 
Jamie munro's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbuonacc View Post
right on, sometimes you just need to exaggerate to make a point. anyone that thinks there's some "instrumental" difference between a metal box with some buttons on it and a good software/controller combo have their wires crossed.

even still, as far as "expression" goes, for some reason i'll always have a hard time with the idea of a synth (as expressive as they are) being compared to a string or wind instrument. less so with percussion.
it's a fair discussion and separation of the subject imo is difficult , each has their own levels of complexity

i learned trombone as a 9 year old child and i would say it was the easiest thing i ever learned (possibly due to age?)but i could not get close to managing a guitar when i was age 23, this was possibly due to patience levels among other distractions. The KBD i am still trying to learn after decades and one day i will crack it i am sure Drums i could never manage, i can do more than OK on guitar hero mind, on screen help, bass drum and 4 pads FTW
Topic:
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Similar Threads
Thread
Thread Starter / Forum
Replies
Bk123 / Electronic Music Instruments and Electronic Music Production
11
fionnmcdonald / Electronic Music Instruments and Electronic Music Production
9
green diver / Electronic Music Instruments and Electronic Music Production
1

Forum Jump
Forum Jump