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Behringer's New Synth (ARP 2600 clone?)
Old 5 days ago
  #1681
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stevism View Post
Wow, suitably impressed! I was really excited when I heard about the Korg reissue, until I started trying to place an order and realized that it was next to impossible. Luckily my initial lust for the Korg has started to wane, as I have no idea where I would store the un-needed flight case (that baby would never leave my studio) or superfluous keyboard. The Behringer sounds great to my ears, and the form factor is much better for my studio (and I might also think about taking it out to play live). The Korg version obviously has resonated with a lot of folks, but I think they missed an opportunity by not offering a cheaper version without flight case or keyboard, or a scaled-down rackable version. But I guess they have their reasons...

I'm really impressed with the synths Behringer has been putting out lately, and am really looking forward to this one - and I'll be able to buy a bunch of additional gear with the money Korg doesn't want to take from me!!
Old 5 days ago
  #1682
Gear Head
 
Jesus Christ's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
I'm just saying, the 'crappy' spring reverb was one of the best bits about the original 2600.
No, it wasn't. It's just a spring reverb.


Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
...people - who had never touched an original 2600 - were saying a Strymon fx pedal or a software spring could take the place of the original 2600 reverb.
The answer to that is no.
The answer to that is YES!



Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
Sure, but it's not integrated into the signal path unless you get your patch cables out. So it's not ideal and it's not the same as the OG 2600.
Who the hell cares?
Old 5 days ago
  #1683
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesus Christ View Post
No, it wasn't. It's just a spring reverb.




The answer to that is YES!





Who the hell cares?
Chrisso is right, but it’s hard for b fanboys not to be blinded
Old 5 days ago
  #1684
Gear Head
 
Jesus Christ's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by pelican View Post
Chrisso is right, but it’s hard for b fanboys not to be blinded
No, Chrisso is WRONG. Very wrong.
Old 5 days ago
  #1685
Gear Addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by pelican View Post
Chrisso is right, but it’s hard for b fanboys not to be blinded
I think it‘s very subjective, for me the last thing I care about is a spring reverb, in fact I detest them, so when someone is saying it is the best part of the synth it would be a real ****ty one to me.
But the basic raw sound I‘ve heard is outstanding and I think that is what matters to most people here, I clearly hear the ARP DNA. It‘s alive and fat, just like I‘d expect from a vintage design.
With the changes Behringer made to the original design however it should be clear that this is not to be seen as a faithful recreation, but as a 2600 inspired synth, spring reverb or not. I welcome the changes in form factor and reverb, also the changes made to the circuits did not have a negative impact, although it is hard to compare because at least I haven‘t found a non fart noise 2600 demo on youtube, not that it would matter much.
Old 5 days ago
  #1686
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by pelican View Post
Chrisso is right, but it’s hard for b fanboys not to be blinded
All Chrisso is actually saying is that the spring in a 2600 is pretty ****ty (and he’s right - especially the post-Tonus models) BUT also in his opinion it’s integral to what makes a 2600 a 2600.

As others have pointed out, this is easily fixed. Mount the 8U B 2600 in a 12U rack and put a 19” spring (or similarly mounted Euro spring) in there too. Patch it in permanently. No issues.

Calling people B fanboys is unnecessary and revealing.
Old 5 days ago
  #1687
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ajscent's Avatar
 

i wonder if this limited stock thing with korgs arp is a fix - they found out the behinger arp would come out so to ensure they sell all their stock they told everyone their version was limited edition.

The alternative would have been having 10,000 units of 4k machines hanging around whilst Uli knocked them up for $499 and they may not have sold that many

This way they have sold out immediately during the panic run.

I think that its a scam and once all orders are delivered we will hear more of this korg arp and possibly a miniture version to go with it - its all the rage - making minature versions
Old 5 days ago
  #1688
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norfolk martin's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by pelican View Post
Chrisso is right, but it’s hard for b fanboys not to be blinded

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesus Christ View Post
No, Chrisso is WRONG. Very wrong.
And that's why they call it opinion.

I did own an original 2600 back in the 90s before prices went stupid, and I certainly didn't think the spring verb was an important component of the sound, I thought it sounded rather cheezy. Others found something special about it that resonated (or reverberated) with them. It's not unusual.

I recently sold a Marshall 2204 that I thought sounded "meh" to a young friend who loves it.

The good thing is the the parts to make a spring reverb used to be about 40 dollars. Shouldn't be a problem with the 3000 + left over from not buying the unavailable Korg.
Old 5 days ago
  #1689
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ArtFluids's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by pelican View Post
Chrisso is right, but it’s hard for b fanboys not to be blinded
I wouldn't call myself a Behringer fanboy.
I'd call myself an inexpensive 2600 fanboy.

A missing spring reverb is the least of my worries.

Things more important than spring reverb for me: oscillators, filters, envelopes, utilities.

I would call myself a Rob Keeble fanboy however, and as far as the short list above I trust him to deliver in spades.

So far I've had two home-runs from Behringer. The Model D, and the Pro-1. I pray the Behringer 2600 will add to that list.
Old 5 days ago
  #1690
Gear Head
 
Jesus Christ's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtFluids View Post

I would call myself a Rob Keeble fanboy
YES! And this is why the Behringer 2600 is so exciting. All of Rob's AMSynths modules I've used are wonderful recreations of classics and have been indispensable.
Old 5 days ago
  #1691
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becks bolero's Avatar
 

Old 5 days ago
  #1692
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Bignatius's Avatar
Me, too (Keeble).

I do "hate" that it's got a Digital one in there. But I'll manage, and I have a few other Spring Reverbs anyway.

And @ chrisso is mostly right.
Old 5 days ago
  #1693
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pppch's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bignatius View Post
Me, too (Keeble).

I do "hate" that it's got a Digital one in there. But I'll manage, and I have a few other Spring Reverbs anyway.

And @ chrisso is mostly right.
what do you actually mean about the color discussion, or from the led colors are musically correctly arranged.
strange that with certain 2600s the super cappy spring was changed with a bigger one, blasphemy
Old 5 days ago
  #1694
Gear Head
 
STRATOSFEAR's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by pppch View Post
strange that with certain 2600s the super cappy spring was changed with a bigger one, blasphemy
CMS .. “ Ever wonder why later model 2600s have
such a lame reverb ? “

CMS description of their spring reverb mod to
upgrade the spring reverb tank in your 2600.

Even the 2600s OEM magical spring reverb had its
critics.
Old 5 days ago
  #1695
Here for the gear
 

Frankly speaking, I didn't hear anything "unacceptable" from the digital reverb in the 2600 demo - just doing its own thing.

I'd love to hear more demos of the raw, dry sound played without sequencing to make further judgement. The VCOs sound fat for sure, but I'd like to hear more of the top sizzle as I'm not yet sure if they sound a bit fatiguing or not, compared to the OG.

Next video, please.
Old 5 days ago
  #1696
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ranzee's Avatar
when is someone going to open up their KARP 2600 so we can truly see how "well" it is made ...
Old 5 days ago
  #1697
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ranzee View Post
when is someone going to open up their KARP 2600 so we can truly see how "well" it is made ...
I’m
Not. Just let it be a mystery. Lol.
Old 5 days ago
  #1698
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ranzee's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Musicncars View Post
I’m
Not. Just let it be a mystery. Lol.
Old 5 days ago
  #1699
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pulsar modular's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ranzee View Post
when is someone going to open up their KARP 2600 so we can truly see how "well" it is made ...
This motherboard close-up was leaked earlier..perhaps some liberties taken here and there..but I believe the case and the dimensions are spot on
Old 5 days ago
  #1700
Lives for gear
 
gentleclockdivid's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ranzee View Post
when is someone going to open up their KARP 2600 so we can truly see how "well" it is made ...
Old 5 days ago
  #1701
Lives for gear
First mod. Spring reverb.
Old 5 days ago
  #1702
Quote:
Originally Posted by le bouch View Post
All Chrisso is actually saying is that the spring in a 2600 is pretty ****ty (and he’s right - especially the post-Tonus models) BUT also in his opinion it’s integral to what makes a 2600 a 2600.

As others have pointed out, this is easily fixed. Mount the 8U B 2600 in a 12U rack and put a 19” spring (or similarly mounted Euro spring) in there too. Patch it in permanently. No issues.

Calling people B fanboys is unnecessary and revealing.
This is true, the spring is what makes an Arp sound like an Arp. Without it it's a different synth. You may not care but that means you don't care about the synth itself.
The digital reverb is horrible and anyone that thinks a stomp box or a plug in will do the original job is plain misguided.
I like saving money too but I don't try to justify that an integral sound is not necessary.
When I play my original Arp it doesn't sound like it should until I've moistened it a little with the spring. The same with a Synthi or a VCS3. That's the sound. which means we'll have the same debate when the BCS3 has a nasty digital reverb.
Old 5 days ago
  #1703
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Rezisehtnys's Avatar
A 2600 without spring reverb is like a Juno without chorus.
Old 5 days ago
  #1704
Last two posts nail it



It was people like Herbie who put the 2600 on the map. The sample and hold groove (with reverb) is a classic use of the 2600.
Old 5 days ago
  #1705
Gear Head
 
Jesus Christ's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul_G View Post
The digital reverb is horrible and anyone that thinks a stomp box or a plug in will do the original job is plain misguided.
THE digital reverb? Are you speaking of the one that is in the prototype? And you know it's horrible how exactly? It hasn't been released yet. I would never put ANY synth through such a cheesy effect and have my name associated with any recording featuring that rubbish. Just because it was an option to use it on the original it doesn't mean it was "integral" to the sound at all. That is not only "misguided", it is complete tripe.

Maybe a tacky, twee, silly spring reverb sound was integral to those prog rock keyboard players of the 70s that dressed up as wizards. But music like that sounds like excrement. No self-respecting grown man with a spine would ever listen to some numb nuts doing prog rock licks up and down a keyboard. No music that features an Arp 2600 that I have any respect for ever had that crappy spring reverb turned up.

Anyone who thinks the optional use of an effect that shipped with the Arp 2600 is integral to its sound, is speaking nonsense.
Old 5 days ago
  #1706
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rezisehtnys View Post
A 2600 without spring reverb is like a Juno without chorus.
a 2600 evolution without osc sync and more is like a ms20 without M ... I hope that the boring topic "springreverb" is thus forever finished.
one can only speak of truly integrated effects if they can be modulated. but even that can be done externally without problems .. unbelievable.
Evolutions are not clones ...

Old 5 days ago
  #1707
Gear Head
 
Jesus Christ's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rezisehtnys View Post
A 2600 without spring reverb is like a Juno without chorus.
No.

A 2600 without a spring reverb is like ANY musical instrument that hasn't been patched through a purulent weeping sore on a rat's scrotum.
Old 5 days ago
  #1708
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesus Christ View Post
Anyone who thinks the optional use of an effect that shipped with the Arp 2600 is integral to its sound, is speaking nonsense.
Anyone who posts like you obviously has no hands on experience with the original.

Probably more than 50% of the time I used my Arp 2600 by inputting a guitar, or some drums in through the audio input. Crunching it up exactly how I wanted it, as the original audio input is one of the best saturation/distortion/character tools I have ever used, including guitar pedals, eurorack modules and software.
Then I just came out of the 2600 audio output adding some of the dark and twangy spring reverb to taste.
No filter, no oscillators, just the audio input and spring reverb.
I have used other spring reverbs - Roland chorus/echo, Ekdahl Moisturizer, Doepfer Eurorack and they didn't sound the same as the OG 2600.

I'm not saying YOU should care about the spring reverb in the B2600, but people like you who keep saying NO ONE should care about the spring reverb are just wrong - sorry.
Old 5 days ago
  #1709
Gear Maniac
 
Groundhog Day's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesus Christ View Post
a purulent weeping sore on a rat's scrotum.
Jesus Christ!
Old 5 days ago
  #1710
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesus Christ View Post
A 2600 without a spring reverb is like....
.....any other modern 3 oscillator semi modular synth with a clone LPF.

Which of course is fine.
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