The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
 Search This Thread  Search This Forum  Search Reviews  Search Gear Database  Search Synths for sale  Search Gearslutz Go Advanced
Help with A6 Andromeda Envelopes
Old 4 weeks ago
  #1
Gear Addict
 
M.Retra's Avatar
Help with A6 Andromeda Envelopes

I've owned my A6 Andy for quite a few years now, but I have always shied away from programming the bad boy mainly due to my fear of the envelopes! Seems foolish, I know! I have programmed several patches of my own, but they mainly piggy-back from already existing patches. I lack confidence in programming the Andromeda, as most times result in a patch with envelopes that butcher the hell out of the sound, and I end up quitting or starting over. Worst case scenarios with the envelopes are ones that create a "buzzy" noise after a key press (like you can hear the envelope generator working), unexpected levels, and an overall garbage sound. Therefore, I have what may probably be some relatively simple questions in regards to the Andromeda's envelopes.

For those who own the A6 know that it can perform complex envelope shapes. There are knobs for Attack, Decay1, Decay2-Level, Decay2, Sustain, Release1, Release2-Level, and Release2. This is what confuses me.

The manual explains the envelopes and shapes for each section fairly well, but fails to give working examples (at least that I comprehend). I still remain confused on how to program just standard ADSR envelope...the same as you would find on most any other synth. Overall, what knobs do I turn "off" to achieve this? For the Decay portion, for example, do I omit the use of Decay1 and/or Decay2-Level? If I don't need the "intermediate" decay mode of Decay2-Level, should I turn it off? Furthermore, for the Release portion, do I omit Release1 and/or Release2-Level? Again, I shouldn't need it for basic ADSR...or do I?!?

Decay1, Decay2, and Release1 all have the ability to be turned off (Release2 cannot be turned off). But if I turn these knobs off, then are the Decay2 and Release2 Level knobs still active?



Thanks for any help.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #2
Gear Addict
 
M.Retra's Avatar
Going to bump this one. I know it's a rather technical and dry question related to the monster A6, but someone's got to know.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #3
Gear Addict
 
M.Retra's Avatar
Maybe this thread isn't in the right location?

Don Solaris, are you out there?
Old 3 weeks ago
  #4
Lives for gear
 
EvilDragon's Avatar
Maybe you should start simple. One oscillator, sawtooth, and play with amp envelope to see what different parameters do. It's a slightly more complex ADSR envelope, but nothing insurmountable.

If you want a bog-standard ADSR, disable decay 2 and release 1, then use Decay 1 and Release 2, that's it.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #5
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by M.Retra View Post
...
Decay1, Decay2, and Release1 all have the ability to be turned off (Release2 cannot be turned off). But if I turn these knobs off, then are the Decay2 and Release2 Level knobs still active?....
Maybe you'd be happier with a simpler synth?
The alternative would be to take a few hours to explore just one envelope.
Start with a simple sound and turn all the envelope knobs in every combination to see and hear what they do.
The phrases going off the deep end or getting in over your head can apply very easily to the A6.

The A6 has a lot of knobs and a nice display to help you along.
But even with the knobs and display it'll take a while to discover what all the envelope stages can do.

If you read the threads about the A6 here, you'll find that a lot of people thought it was too complicated and just had 'too much' of everything.

When I had one, I thought it was just about right. But it was just about right only after taking the time to learn it.
It's definitely not just a simple synth.
After owning an A6 or an upper end Kurzweil, you'll probably find most other hardware keyboards limited.
Software can get you that kind of complexity, but it feels a lot different working with it.
I don't have the A6 anymore, but sometimes I wish I did.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #6
Gear Addict
 
M.Retra's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
Maybe you should start simple. One oscillator, sawtooth, and play with amp envelope to see what different parameters do. It's a slightly more complex ADSR envelope, but nothing insurmountable.

If you want a bog-standard ADSR, disable decay 2 and release 1, then use Decay 1 and Release 2, that's it.
Thank you, sir. That's all I needed: just a little confirmation to help me get past the hurdle. Knowing this, I can now get passed the "am I doing it right?" phase and focus on sound design improvement. I'll worry about more-complex envelopes later on!

Old 3 weeks ago
  #7
Jose Ramón Alvarado Villa
 
Don Solaris's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by M.Retra View Post
Don Solaris, are you out there?
Sorry i didn't saw this thread earlier. Before you start doing anything make sure you followed all the steps in here:

http://www.donsolaris.com/?p=140

Once you do all the preparation and save these settings as your No001 patch, start everything from there.

To find the perfect envelope you will need help of the white noise. Set it to max level, open the filter and adjust volume envelope as following. Attack 0, Decay 50%, Sustain 0, Release 0. Completely ignore the second decay and releases. They are for special purposes (just make sure they are set to 0).

Now you will need to record this output into your DAW or ideally Ocean Audio editor which is highly recommended!!!! Set this editor it to full screen and press rec. Strike a key on Andromeda, and observe the output on the screen.

Now go back to your envelope and set decay to 20%, press a note and you will see a shape on the screen formed each time you strike a key. At this stage you are literally watching the shape of your envelope on the computer screen. Now, how cool is that? But wait, there's more!

Now go into decay slope (shape) option and change it from linear to exponential curves. There are three of them. Ideally you want something that resembles the x^(-e) shape. The decay should look like this:

https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=e%5E-x

(blue line in that graph = the shape of perfection)

And from now on, all of the sounds with this envelope shape will perfectly resonate with your body energy and the surrounding Universe in complete harmony with nature thanks to the power of "Chi". (just kidding!!)

What you want to is to find the shape that is closest to the Minimoog envelope curve and Jupiter 8 (Juno 60) curve. These really sound best from most of the envelopes you will every work with. Once you find the correct setting for the decay and slope type, SAVE that preset as a starting point.

You should use similar shape for the release, but be aware this shape indirectly tends to eat more polyphony. Because it decays much faster in the earlier stage it forces you to strike another key. While with linear release slope you will have much longer sounding release, but the end stage will be abrupt. So, your choice in here. I kinda use linear to save the polyphony. Not sure why i do that since there are 16 voices and i always think Andromeda has 8 voices.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #8
Jose Ramón Alvarado Villa
 
Don Solaris's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by M.Retra View Post
Don Solaris, are you out there?
Any more questions, man?
Old 3 weeks ago
  #9
Gear Addict
 
M.Retra's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Solaris View Post
Sorry i didn't saw this thread earlier. Before you start doing anything make sure you followed all the steps in here:

http://www.donsolaris.com/?p=140

Once you do all the preparation and save these settings as your No001 patch, start everything from there.

To find the perfect envelope you will need help of the white noise. Set it to max level, open the filter and adjust volume envelope as following. Attack 0, Decay 50%, Sustain 0, Release 0. Completely ignore the second decay and releases. They are for special purposes (just make sure they are set to 0).

Now you will need to record this output into your DAW or ideally Ocean Audio editor which is highly recommended!!!! Set this editor it to full screen and press rec. Strike a key on Andromeda, and observe the output on the screen.

Now go back to your envelope and set decay to 20%, press a note and you will see a shape on the screen formed each time you strike a key. At this stage you are literally watching the shape of your envelope on the computer screen. Now, how cool is that? But wait, there's more!

Now go into decay slope (shape) option and change it from linear to exponential curves. There are three of them. Ideally you want something that resembles the x^(-e) shape. The decay should look like this:

https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=x%5E-e

(blue line in that graph = the shape of perfection)

And from now on, all of the sounds with this envelope shape will perfectly resonate with your body energy and the surrounding Universe in complete harmony with nature thanks to the power of "Chi". (just kidding!!)

What you want to is to find the shape that is closest to the Minimoog envelope curve and Jupiter 8 (Juno 60) curve. These really sound best from most of the envelopes you will every work with. Once you find the correct setting for the decay and slope type, SAVE that preset as a starting point.

You should use similar shape for the release, but be aware this shape indirectly tends to eat more polyphony. Because it decays much faster in the earlier stage it forces you to strike another key. While with linear release slope you will have much longer sounding release, but the end stage will be abrupt. So, your choice in here. I kinda use linear to save the polyphony. Not sure why i do that since there are 16 voices and i always think Andromeda has 8 voices.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Solaris View Post
Any more questions, man?
Ha! I think I'm good for now! Thanks for the explanation of the envelopes and what to experiment with. Great tip on checking out the envelope shape by recording into an editor! Thanks for that one, for sure! I use dumpy Sound Forge Studio, but I'll definitely check out the Ocenaudio editor. If it has solid VST implementation, then I may fully switch over.



I have come across your page about "Andromeda A6 Sound Improvement Tips," several years ago, and I have definitely used that knowledge up to this point. The envelope at 80-90 definitely helps speed up the envelopes. Also, I believe at the moment, I do indeed have BG Tune turned OFF but Temp Tune left ON.

On a side note, the 104-page "A6 Tips and Tricks" document is a plethora of knowledge, except that it become random, incoherent babble about 20 pages in. It starts of good, but focus is lost and many ideas/tips/tricks/nuggets are repeated and/or fragmented across the entire document. To think that all that knowledge--all from a mailing list!??--was discussed and documented about 15+ years ago is insane! Very much appreciate though; It's definitely an asset and goldmine for us A6 owners.
Topic:
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Similar Threads
Thread
Thread Starter / Forum
Replies
analogholic / Electronic Music Instruments and Electronic Music Production
14
rizalkhan / Electronic Music Instruments and Electronic Music Production
2
truepusk / Electronic Music Instruments and Electronic Music Production
6
Gringo Starr / Electronic Music Instruments and Electronic Music Production
17
axxed334 / Electronic Music Instruments and Electronic Music Production
15

Forum Jump
Forum Jump