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Novation Summit
Old 4 weeks ago
  #931
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I had it with my Peak as well, although haven’t experienced it for quite a while now. I think not since the latest firmware update
Old 4 weeks ago
  #932
vlz
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Isn't parameter jumping a symptom of the encoder issue? If so there's a recall for it.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #933
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vlz View Post
Isn't parameter jumping a symptom of the encoder issue? If so there's a recall for it.
This unit is my second unit and is the result of the recall due to the encoder issue.

This is not a problem with the encoder, which work fine on this unit. The problem I'm experiencing here is of a different nature, that has nothing to do with the encoder, but might have something to do with all the other knobs.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #934
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Quote:
Originally Posted by petal View Post
My Summit makes mysterious changes to parameters by it self. Has anybody else experienced this?

At first I noticed that the screen turned on by it self without me doing anything.
I then started to investigate and I’ve noticed that if I leave my Summit alone for a few hours, then sometimes it has changed at least one parameter by it self!? I know this, because the sound has changed in the loaded patch.

Confirmed affected parameters:
Osc mixer 2 + 3
Filter frequency
Osc 3 Filter Mod
Distortion
And Reverb level

I think that part of what happens is that when a parameter changes by it self, it changes to the value that the knob is in physically.

How to test for this:
1. Make sure all the parameters listed above are set to max although the filter freq should be set to 50%
1b. Plus other parameters that makes an obvious effect on an initialised patch
2. Press Initialise
3. Leave the synth alone and check once in a while if the sound has changed from how a normal initialised sound should sound.
3b. Press the same key several time to notice two oscillators beating against each other = OSC mixer 2 or 3 has changed
4. Patience - I usually only notice this one or two times a day, sometimes with days in between
5. Maybe leave it turned on during the night and check in the morning

My firmware is upgraded to the latest. I have seen the problem on the previous firmware and the newest.
I’ve confirmed the problem both with or without USB-cable inserted on both firmwares.
I don’t use normal midi with my summit, so I havn’t tested this.

I am in contact with Novation Support, but so far they haven’t taken much interest in this particular problem.

I’d love to hear it if anyone else has noticed anything similar to what I have described here.
If you have an analogue potentiometer controlling a function, it is not always going to have a direct correlation in the values it is outputting to digital numbers present on a display. This is true of all such pots except for digital encoders (the ones that click when you turn them).

So, a potentiometer might be set between two values represented digitally on a screen. This will cause the digital number to change.

It's nothing to worry about.

On my A6, I turn all the pots to 0 (fully counterclockwise) before turning it on and letting it warm up for 15 minutes). This prevents any initial potentiometer "jitter" and then I just don't worry about it after that.

You can re-code the software to buffer the values more to reduce the jitter, but then that reduces the pot control sensitivity. I'd rather have the sensitivity (and range). It's a trade-off many synth designs have to make.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #935
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We are talking about random jumps on random parameters from 0 to max, depending on the knobs position.

I don't see how that is acceptable at all.

But yes, resetting the synth before you start working is a kind of workaround, not sure what I need all those presetslots for, they are kind of useless then.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #936
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Quote:
Originally Posted by petal View Post
We are talking about random jumps on random parameters from 0 to max, depending on the knobs position.

I don't see how that is acceptable at all.

But yes, resetting the synth before you start working is a kind of workaround, not sure what I need all those presetslots for, they are kind of useless then.
Do you have your knobs set to direct, relative or catch (or whatever terms Novation uses)?
Old 4 weeks ago
  #937
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They are all direct -there is no catch in Summit.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #938
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SerErris View Post
They are all direct -there is no catch in Summit.
From the manual:

“ The setting of Pickup allows the current physical position of Summit’s rotary controls to be taken into account. When Pickup is Off, adjusting any of Summit’s rotary controls will produce parameter change and a potentially immediately audible effect (a small difference between the parameter value corresponding to the control’s physical position and the value currently in force for the Patch may result in the effect being inaudible). When set to On, the control needs to be moved to the physical position corresponding to the value of the parameter saved for the currently loaded Patch, and will only alter the parameter value once that position is reached. For parameters with a range of 0 to 255, this means the 12 o’clock position will correspond to a value of 127; for parameters with a range of -64 to +63, the 12 o’clock position will correspond to a value of zero.”
Old 4 weeks ago
  #939
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So is it ok to buy one of these, or what's going on. Are there problems?.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #940
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Yes, it’s fine to buy one. There are issues, but they’re all minor or low frequency and seem to be getting fixed. Support is responsive.

It’s logical, extraordinarily good, and covers a huge sound design space.

I’m usually able to emulate any existing synth sound within a few minutes and the huge array of patches from a wide range of sound designers are a great source of ideas.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #941
Gear Maniac
 

Seems like these aren't in stock anywhere in the U.S. Does anyone know where to get one?
Old 3 weeks ago
  #942
here'a weird one. Summit arrives. Keyboard looks overall pretty stable and flat. not perfect, but not ugly or questionable. check. tried aftertouch on summit using the Shockwave patches loaded in bank D. works nicely. Firm. not the best, but certainly very tolerable and usable. check. Went to multi...nothing. no aftertouch no matter what. plugged in Hydrasynth. single patches respond to poly at. switched to multi-mode. Nothing. no response. nothing. tried changing the settings in summit for midi and channels (ch 1, 2, 3, for A, B and Layer or whatever. Nothing. a Big WTF to that one...
Anyone have a miracle solution that might get the multi's responding? Otherwise this looks to be a case of some a****** at the assembly line not check leads, solder points, and connections. makes no sense the damn thing would work with single patches nicely, but not the multi's.
(Update - Multi's respond to usb midi input, PolyAftertouch from Hydrasynth also working)
(Update - It transmits aftertouch data via usb/midi out while in multi patch mode also.)
Old 3 weeks ago
  #943
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyLoops View Post
here'a weird one. Summit arrives. Keyboard looks overall pretty stable and flat. not perfect, but not ugly or questionable. check. tried aftertouch on summit using the Shockwave patches loaded in bank D. works nicely. Firm. not the best, but certainly very tolerable and usable. check. Went to multi...nothing. no aftertouch no matter what. plugged in Hydrasynth. single patches respond to poly at. switched to multi-mode. Nothing. no response. nothing. tried changing the settings in summit for midi and channels (ch 1, 2, 3, for A, B and Layer or whatever. Nothing. a Big WTF to that one...
Anyone have a miracle solution that might get the multi's responding? Otherwise this looks to be a case of some a****** at the assembly line not check leads, solder points, and connections. makes no sense the damn thing would work with single patches nicely, but not the multi's.
(Update - Multi's respond to usb midi input, PolyAftertouch from Hydrasynth also working)
(Update - It transmits aftertouch data via usb/midi out while in multi patch mode also.)
Did you update?

https://components.novationmusic.com/summit/firmware

Quote:
New in V1.0.1

Addressed an issue with using aftertouch in Multi Mode
Old 3 weeks ago
  #944
Quote:
Originally Posted by LoungeFly View Post
excellent. I blame google. Its the first damn thing I did - searching for firmware update. I typed Summit firmware update. I see nothing besides links to novation's peak page, and articles about the peak update and about the bass station 2 update. My own fault for trusting google to have it right every time, and for not double checking on novation's site.
So, despite the frustration-filled post earlier, I'd rather have the taste of foot-in-mouth from making an ass of myself here than deal with an RMA. I like this Summit. I just want it to like me back lol.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #945
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Love is hard work - every single day
Old 3 weeks ago
  #946
Ok. I got a solid hour in on the summit after updating. Had plenty of time tinkering with it at the store and at knobcon, but it's so much better to finally have at home.
The midi channels on multi-mode are sort of a pain to deal with, but given it's a 2-part deal, I can see why certain things are set up the way they are. Only downside is that when I'm sending ch1 from hydrasynth to summit while in multi, it doesn't respond to AT or mod wheel. Only when controlling just part A or part B: then AT and mod wheel control from hydra work.
sounds incredible. This one's a keeper.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #947
Lives for gear
 

Novation have a "Book of Summit" PDF available if you sign up to their newsletter.

"The Book of Summit gives you the chance to learn about the intricate engineering of Summit, and offers insight into the progressive design choices made by Chris Huggett and the Novation team."

https://novationmusic.com/en/book-summit
Old 2 weeks ago
  #948
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Has anyone else noticed a loss of headroom in the distortion circuit in Multi mode compared to Single mode? I've got some Single patches with distortion that I also use in Multi patches and they sound different depending on the mode. There might be other differences, but the most noticeable to me is that the signal distorts quite a bit earlier in Multi mode.

The block diagram in the manual is a bit confusing. It looks like there are two post-VCA distortion blocks (confusingly called Overdrive), one for the left sum and one for the right. But does that mean there are actually 4 distortion circuits? Part A-left, Part A-right, Part B-left, Part B-right? And perhaps in single mode the two parts are applied in series, resulting in more headroom?

(I almost failed a couple electrical engineering courses in university, so what I typed above might be stupid.)
Old 1 week ago
  #949
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Luke Neptune is the man!
Old 1 week ago
  #950
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Quote:
Originally Posted by energizer bunny View Post
So is it ok to buy one of these, or what's going on. Are there problems?.
I've had some annoying issues that I've described in the other thread: Hydrasynth, Summit or..? I'm also really unhappy how Novation is handling this - instead of "thanks for bug report, we hope to address this in firmware update" I got their support person basically telling me I don't know how to use synths and that it's totally normal behaviour. So in my opinion there are some problems.
Old 1 week ago
  #951
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marcin17 View Post
I've had some annoying issues that I've described in the other thread: Hydrasynth, Summit or..? I'm also really unhappy how Novation is handling this - instead of "thanks for bug report, we hope to address this in firmware update" I got their support person basically telling me I don't know how to use synths and that it's totally normal behaviour. So in my opinion there are some problems.
Can you describe your annoying issues?
I'm just curious...

I was thinking of selling my Peak (doesn't have any bugs that I noticed. latest OS) to buy a Summit...
Old 1 week ago
  #952
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Does anyone noticed that filter diverge has practically no effect? Even at its max value?
Old 1 week ago
  #953
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyLoops View Post
here'a weird one. Summit arrives. Keyboard looks overall pretty stable and flat. not perfect, but not ugly or questionable. check. tried aftertouch on summit using the Shockwave patches loaded in bank D. works nicely. Firm. not the best, but certainly very tolerable and usable. check. Went to multi...nothing. no aftertouch no matter what. plugged in Hydrasynth. single patches respond to poly at. switched to multi-mode. Nothing. no response. nothing. tried changing the settings in summit for midi and channels (ch 1, 2, 3, for A, B and Layer or whatever. Nothing. a Big WTF to that one...
Anyone have a miracle solution that might get the multi's responding? Otherwise this looks to be a case of some a****** at the assembly line not check leads, solder points, and connections. makes no sense the damn thing would work with single patches nicely, but not the multi's.
(Update - Multi's respond to usb midi input, PolyAftertouch from Hydrasynth also working)
(Update - It transmits aftertouch data via usb/midi out while in multi patch mode also.)

such a HUGE spam sig..
ugly
&
nasty
Old 1 week ago
  #954
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Quote:
Originally Posted by camarao View Post
Can you describe your annoying issues?
I'm just curious...

I was thinking of selling my Peak (doesn't have any bugs that I noticed. latest OS) to buy a Summit...
Yeah, so there are at least two:
- sometimes when you switch patches, the notes you've played on the previous patch will keep ringing on the next patch forever
- sometimes notes played below middle C will have infinite release (even with amp envelope has release set to 0, no reverb, etc), whereas notes above middle C will release normally.

Both of those seems to be related to mod matrix, and I got responses from support that I can simply not use keyboard tracking and VCA level in mod matrix if I want to avoid this. Which really sucks, because one of the reason I picked this keyboard in the first place was that it has pretty extensive modulation matrix (at least on paper).

I also found some minor glitches around multi patches: for example values are not displayed correctly. But this is pretty much irrelevant in comparison to the other issue above. Also once in my few weeks of using it I had some weird behavior where envelope on multiple patches started doing very loud click on release. This disappeared after reboot and I don't know how to reproduce it, but I'm concerned that this could happen again when I'm actually playing outside home.

So if I were to buy this again, I'd probably wait until an update comes out (or maybe try to find second hand Prophet 12 instead, as they seem to be more reliable).
Old 1 week ago
  #955
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marcin17 View Post
Yeah, so there are at least two:
- sometimes when you switch patches, the notes you've played on the previous patch will keep ringing on the next patch forever
- sometimes notes played below middle C will have infinite release (even with amp envelope has release set to 0, no reverb, etc), whereas notes above middle C will release normally.

Both of those seems to be related to mod matrix, and I got responses from support that I can simply not use keyboard tracking and VCA level in mod matrix if I want to avoid this. Which really sucks, because one of the reason I picked this keyboard in the first place was that it has pretty extensive modulation matrix (at least on paper).

I also found some minor glitches around multi patches: for example values are not displayed correctly. But this is pretty much irrelevant in comparison to the other issue above. Also once in my few weeks of using it I had some weird behavior where envelope on multiple patches started doing very loud click on release. This disappeared after reboot and I don't know how to reproduce it, but I'm concerned that this could happen again when I'm actually playing outside home.

So if I were to buy this again, I'd probably wait until an update comes out (or maybe try to find second hand Prophet 12 instead, as they seem to be more reliable).
thank you.

i never noticed that behaviour in my Peak. it seems bugs... i guess i’ll wait, then...
Old 1 week ago
  #956
Quote:
Originally Posted by marcin17 View Post
Yeah, so there are at least two:
- sometimes when you switch patches, the notes you've played on the previous patch will keep ringing on the next patch forever
- sometimes notes played below middle C will have infinite release (even with amp envelope has release set to 0, no reverb, etc), whereas notes above middle C will release normally.
I can't reproduce both bugs on my summit. Does the errors also occur if you don't use Midi or USB (unplug all cables)?
Old 1 week ago
  #957
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ensoniq70 View Post
I can't reproduce both bugs on my summit. Does the errors also occur if you don't use Midi or USB (unplug all cables)?
Yes, I do have Midi cable always plugged in, I like playing it through my master keyboard. I can't check right now what happens if I unplug it but I guess it does not hurt to try.

Here are steps that consistently cause problem on mine:
- do factory reset (load stock patches)
- play something, let's say a E2 on patch A0.
- switch to patch C68. The E2 is quietly playing in background forever, despite the fact I pressed no keys after switching to this patch (and I'm also pretty sure there is nothing being sent by Midi)

I'm really torn by this, I was listening to some recordings of it I did the other day and I very much liked them. But I also want my instruments to be reliable; the last thing I want to happen is that I'm playing with someone and then the keyboard decides to make some noises on it's own.
Old 1 week ago
  #958
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marcin17 View Post
Yeah, so there are at least two:
- sometimes when you switch patches, the notes you've played on the previous patch will keep ringing on the next patch forever
- sometimes notes played below middle C will have infinite release (even with amp envelope has release set to 0, no reverb, etc), whereas notes above middle C will release normally.
Check out older posts on this forum topic - these have been discussed here before. So if it helps any, others have seen these issues.

On the second one (infinite release depending on the keyboard key pressed), this is actually 100% exactly what the synth is being told to do. Not quite a bug (though I think Novation could do something to make it better), but there is a modulation feature related to key note value that raises or lowers the VCA output (I think that's what it is) based on the note value. The purpose of this is to adjust volume level based on note value which is important for some patches. But if you lower the volume based on increasing note value for example, it raises the volume due to decreasing note value as it is a linear response centered around the keyboard's center note. This creates the effect that notes below center C, for example, ring or never end - because the VCA has been forced open.


On a different topic..... Re: Aftertouch...

I also talked to them about Aftertouch. I went to a local store to try aftertouch on several synths. What I found was they all engaged aftertouch immediately upon pressing into the aftertouch region vs. my Summit that requires me to press about 1mm or so into the aftertouch region before it starts to have an effect. Also, my Summit has inconsistent engagement points for AT depending on the key I press (1mm on one key, 0.5mm on another, 1.2mm on the next, give or take).

I discussed this with them, and they responded to say they have improved aftertouch on newer units and I am welcome to swap mine under warranty. I asked, "does that mean you have actually done something to really improve it", and the answer was yes. Meaning this isn't just the support person saying hopefully that a new unit might be better - but that they took specific action to improve and fix aftertouch.

But stock is still slim, and support suggested I should contact them about it in April. That was before the virus situation really kicked in, so for now I'm holding off until things improve in general for stock and the virus. The AT still does not kill the Synth for me, and I'd rather not be without my Summit while stuck at home. I was also hoping to see if anyone else had swapped theirs and saw a big improvement for AT. I'll probably get it swapped this summer.
Old 1 week ago
  #959
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MLohmeyer View Post

On the second one (infinite release depending on the keyboard key pressed), this is actually 100% exactly what the synth is being told to do. Not quite a bug (though I think Novation could do something to make it better), but there is a modulation feature related to key note value that raises or lowers the VCA output (I think that's what it is) based on the note value. The purpose of this is to adjust volume level based on note value which is important for some patches. But if you lower the volume based on increasing note value for example, it raises the volume due to decreasing note value as it is a linear response centered around the keyboard's center note. This creates the effect that notes below center C, for example, ring or never end - because the VCA has been forced open.

Well, I get that you'd want higher or lower volume based on note pitch, that's quite basic feature. But this is simply not a good implementation of it: let's say you are playing a lead and want to "play" a rest, then you always must finish at C or above to avoid any aftersounds? Or, you want to do a precise staccato run in lower register; that's also not going to work I would think that those are pretty typical use cases; and in fact other synths I played can handle them fine. Sure, we can call this an intended feature. Still it won't change fact that at the end of the day it's something that holds me back musically.
Old 1 week ago
  #960
Gear Nut
 

Re: vca level

I have a peak not a summit but what I have found is that by raising the vca you get a drone. The loudness of the drone depends on the vca level.

If you want to control voice volumes as you play, without droning, you can adjust each osc level in the matrix. It’s more cumbersome (3 vs 1 assignment) but more flexible.
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