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Behringer Yamaha CS 80 clone (DS 80) Speculation Thread
Old 1st September 2020 | Show parent
  #2311
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2025
Old 1st September 2020
  #2312
vlz
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Or later. 2022 more likely.
Old 10th November 2020 | Show parent
  #2313
Don't mean to revive a dead thread, but do any of you think that we will get the DS-80 soon after the Ub-Xa, as I feel that the development of the Ub may have helped speed up some of the process to create the DS i.e. firmware, new keybeds, etc
Old 10th November 2020
  #2314
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They'll probably release the UBXa mid to late 2021, spend about 12 months getting all the bugs found by the user base ironed out - there's bound to be a load as it seems to be a new firmware base (not from Deepmind). They do that while getting the CS-80 hardware ready, then put fixed firmware on CS-80 and get it out the door. My uninformed guess would be about 12-18 months after UBXa - esp. if they use the PAT keyboard on the UB, which would be very cool.
Old 10th November 2020
  #2315
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This thread is not dead, it is just sleeping.

I have to say, there are really some good new synthesizers (Cobalt8, Polybrute, Super6, Iridium, (the boring, overpriced) Prophet 5, ...),
but through my experience with the Hydrasynth it became clear to me that with today's possibilities, playability and expressiveness are most important.

And there comes the DS-80 with its 5-octave! PolyAT keyboard.
All of my potential purchases (not the Osmose, naturally) are on hold until I can get and evaluate it.

best regards
Old 10th November 2020 | Show parent
  #2316
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kurzweil's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Behrmoog ➡️
This thread is not dead, it is just sleeping.

I have to say, there are really some good new synthesizers (Cobalt8, Polybrute, Super6, Iridium, the boring Porphet 5, ...),
but through my experience with the Hydrasynth it became clear to me that with today's possibilities, playability and expressiveness are most important.

And there comes the DS-80 with its 5-octave PolyAT keyboard.
All of my potential purchases (not the Osmose, naturally) are on hold until I can get it.

best regards
Polybrute has taken expressiveness to a whole new level I think.
PolyAT and ribbon control is great, and I'm really looking forward to the DS80, but the patch morping feature (and the Morphee controller) really made me sit up and take notice. Morphing between the two layers on the DS80 anyone??
Old 10th November 2020 | Show parent
  #2317
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ZT Scheer's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Behrmoog ➡️
... the boring, overpriced Porphet 5, ...), ...
I will fight you, lol.
Old 10th November 2020 | Show parent
  #2318
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZT Scheer ➡️
I will fight you, lol.
I'll put it in brackets.
Old 10th November 2020
  #2319
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🎧 10 years
WTF is a DS-80 supposed to be? The correct name is BS-80, we can't change traditions!
Old 2nd January 2021 | Show parent
  #2320
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JPogo's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by JEK3 ➡️
WTF is a DS-80 supposed to be? The correct name is BS-80, we can't change traditions!
I just supposed they didn't want the slam for naming any product "BS" -- there are always going to be critics, why make it easy for them ...
Old 29th January 2021 | Show parent
  #2321
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🎧 15 years
Behringer just today posted a new ultra complex pcb that could very well be an SMD CS-80.

https://de-de.facebook.com/Behringer...type=3&theater

Their accompanying description:
"Over the past 3 years our UK, Italian and German engineering teams worked extremely hard to design a modular control platform for polyphonic synthesizers, based on high power ARM processors. This now allows us to develop synths at a much faster rate and we’re extremely excited to share some news.

With the upcoming release of the OB-Xa, we can now fully focus on several poly synths we’ve been developing in parallel. Below you see one of the most complex analog synths ever created with over 6,000 components placed on a highly dense multi-layer board. This synth even uses discrete analog filters based on vintage designs.

2021 will be a very exciting year with many great instruments in the pipeline - even digital and hybrid synths.

You guys are the reason why we do what we do. Thank you for all your support and loyalty."

So, 8 voices, discrete modeled vintage filters, "one of the most complex synths" ever created, what else could it be apart from CS-80/Rhodes Chroma...



Old 29th January 2021 | Show parent
  #2322
DGL
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by el-folie ➡️
Behringer just today posted a new ultra complex pcb that could very well be an SMD CS-80.

https://de-de.facebook.com/Behringer...type=3&theater

Their accompanying description:
"Over the past 3 years our UK, Italian and German engineering teams worked extremely hard to design a modular control platform for polyphonic synthesizers, based on high power ARM processors. This now allows us to develop synths at a much faster rate and we’re extremely excited to share some news.

With the upcoming release of the OB-Xa, we can now fully focus on several poly synths we’ve been developing in parallel. Below you see one of the most complex analog synths ever created with over 6,000 components placed on a highly dense multi-layer board. This synth even uses discrete analog filters based on vintage designs.

2021 will be a very exciting year with many great instruments in the pipeline - even digital and hybrid synths.

You guys are the reason why we do what we do. Thank you for all your support and loyalty."

So, 8 voices, discrete modeled vintage filters, "one of the most complex synths" ever created, what else could it be apart from CS-80/Rhodes Chroma...



Well if you want the most complex poly synth then I guess that would be the GX1, but I would guess that this is the CS-80.
Old 29th January 2021 | Show parent
  #2323
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🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by DGL ➡️
Well if you want the most complex poly synth then I guess that would be the GX1, but I would guess that this is the CS-80.
My guess too... If really so, there goes any money I can somehow scrape up.
Old 29th January 2021 | Show parent
  #2324
DGL
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🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by el-folie ➡️
My guess too... If really so, there goes any money I can somehow scrape up.
Breaking news: Shares in all major supermarkets take as dive as profits are hit due to people all over the world choosing the DS-80 over eating.
Old 29th January 2021 | Show parent
  #2325
Gear Nut
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by el-folie ➡️
Behringer just today posted a new ultra complex pcb that could very well be an SMD CS-80.
Unlikely.

The post explicitly mentiones the OB-Xa, so why would they show another synthesizer's board?

Beyond this speculation, there is much clearer evidence if you just look at the connectors on this board and compare them to those of the original OB-Xa — same number, similar layout. And very different from that of the CS-80.
Attached Thumbnails
Behringer Yamaha CS 80 clone (DS 80) Speculation Thread-cropped.jpg   Behringer Yamaha CS 80 clone (DS 80) Speculation Thread-oberheim_obxa_rear_lg.jpg   Behringer Yamaha CS 80 clone (DS 80) Speculation Thread-yamaha_cs80_rear_lg.jpg  

Last edited by StrangeQuarkStar; 29th January 2021 at 04:49 PM.. Reason: Corrected image.
Old 29th January 2021 | Show parent
  #2326
Gear Nut
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by StrangeQuarkStar ➡️
Unlikely.

The post explicitly mentiones the OB-Xa, so why would they show another synthesizer's board?

Beyond this speculation, there is much clearer evidence if you just look at the connectors on this board and compare them to those of the original OB-Xa — same number, similar layout. And very different from that of the CS-80.
The Obxa doesnt have discrete filters

Also basing it on IOs of 30+ year old synths does not make sense, you think the Ubxa is gonna have a cassette interface?
They tweaked the original designs, this is one place I would definitely expect there to be differences
Old 29th January 2021 | Show parent
  #2327
Gear Nut
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by AuFX ➡️
The Obxa doesnt have discrete filters.
The OB-X does.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AuFX ➡️
Also basing it on IOs of 30+ year old synths does not make sense, you think the Ubxa is gonna have a cassette interface?
They tweaked the original designs, this is one place I would definitely expect there to be differences
I'm not talking about the cassette interface, which would be three additional connectors to what their circuit board has. Those are replaced by the DIN connectors for MIDI.

Take another look at the images I attached before; their connectors perfectly match those of the OB-X and OB-Xa — three foot pedal inputs (Filter, Volume, Vibrato), two foot switch imputs (Sustain and Program Advance), as well as mono, left, and right audio outs.

Behringer have consistently provided exactly the same connections as the originals (barring obsolete tech); just compare the Bodyssey with the originals or the KARP ones.
Attached Thumbnails
Behringer Yamaha CS 80 clone (DS 80) Speculation Thread-screen-shot-2021-01-29-17.03.19.jpg   Behringer Yamaha CS 80 clone (DS 80) Speculation Thread-screen-shot-2021-01-29-17.03.47.jpg  
Old 29th January 2021 | Show parent
  #2328
Gear Nut
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by StrangeQuarkStar ➡️
The OB-X does.



I'm not talking about the cassette interface, which would be three additional connectors to what their circuit board has. Those are replaced by the DIN connectors for MIDI.

Take another look at the images I attached before; their connectors perfectly match those of the OB-X and OB-Xa — three foot pedal inputs (Filter, Volume, Vibrato), two foot switch imputs (Sustain and Program Advance), as well as mono, left, and right audio outs.

Behringer have consistently provided exactly the same connections as the originals (barring obsolete tech); just compare the Bodyssey with the originals or the KARP ones.
But you are saying this is the OB-Xa not an OB-X.

If you look closely you can see there are 5 two story jacks so it wouldnt match the OB-Xa either.
I dont think it is unusual that they would expand on the more limited IO of the CS-80 for their flagship, there are plenty of examples of them adding extra stuff that just builds on the original.
Old 29th January 2021 | Show parent
  #2329
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🎧 15 years
Of course we can´t know what it really is by now, but guessing by "most complex" neither OBXa or OBX come to mind...

I mean just look at the multilayer board - it´s literally crammed with components, my guess is still CS-80.
Old 29th January 2021 | Show parent
  #2330
Gear Nut
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by AuFX ➡️
But you are saying this is the OB-Xa not an OB-X.
I was first mentioning the OB-Xa, yes. I didn't know about their filter designs. The argument I made still stood though, and it turned out that the OB-X does have discrete filters, so I later referenced that one instead.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AuFX ➡️
If you look closely you can see there are 5 two story jacks so it wouldnt match the OB-Xa either.
I've overlooked that; you're right!

In that case it could indeed be an interesting update to the CS-80: the original three inputs (Foot Switch, Foot Controller, and Audio In), and the 5 stacks of TRS plugs could be the main Left/Right mix, plus an individual output for each voice.

Let's see what happens! The CS-80 is my most anticipated instrument of all.
Old 29th January 2021
  #2331
Gear Nut
 
🎧 5 years
I guess we get an idea soon enough from the OB-xa beta testers.

It is kind of strange they would only say a 'discrete filter', the OB-X and CS-80 are both fully discrete synths... It could well be that it is the OB-Xa with the OB-X filter, they did this a few times before (2600, K-2, maybe others), I think it's kind of pointless as the VCOs and VCAs are equally important to capturing sound of the originals but it's a good marketing technique .
Old 29th January 2021 | Show parent
  #2332
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🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by AuFX ➡️
I guess we get an idea soon enough from the OB-xa beta testers.

It is kind of strange they would only say a 'discrete filter', the OB-X and CS-80 are both fully discrete synths... It could well be that it is the OB-Xa with the OB-X filter, they did this a few times before (2600, K-2, maybe others), I think it's kind of pointless as the VCOs and VCAs are equally important to capturing sound of the originals but it's a good marketing technique .
Actually, the CS-80 is full of proprietary Yamaha IG chips for VCO, VCF and VCA and whatnot. That´s the reason why it´s so hard to reproduce the monster. If Behringer managed to capture the behaviour of those linear CS-80 VCOs (which detune differently than standard 3340 VCOs), the completely distinctive metallic tone of the filters and the ring mod, then that would be truly amazing...
Old 29th January 2021 | Show parent
  #2333
Gear Nut
 
🎧 5 years
That is interesting, so does this mean they are cheaping out and using their CEM clones for the rest of the circuit?
Seems like it would be near impossible to accurately recreate the circuits at all.
Even having the original IC schematics it would be a huge and expensive undertaking to recreate them discretely.
Old 29th January 2021 | Show parent
  #2334
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🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by AuFX ➡️
That is interesting, so does this mean they are cheaping out and using their CEM clones for the rest of the circuit?
Seems like it would be near impossible to accurately recreate the circuits at all.
Even having the original IC schematics it would be a huge and expensive undertaking to recreate them discretely.
Can´t say of course - but will be interesting to see how they manage to pull this project off. In regard to the linear VCOs, it may be possible to use the 3340s. One thing though is to get the waveshapes right, e.g. the very distinct nasal saw wave. Also the detuning aspect. It should be possible to emulate the linear detuning behaviour via software control but if it then really sounds and behaves like a CS Synth, I don´t know. The CS Synths are full of intricacies and idiosyncrasies that sum up to that great sound we all love.
Old 29th January 2021 | Show parent
  #2335
Gear Maniac
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by el-folie ➡️
Actually, the CS-80 is full of proprietary Yamaha IG chips for VCO, VCF and VCA and whatnot. That´s the reason why it´s so hard to reproduce the monster. If Behringer managed to capture the behaviour of those linear CS-80 VCOs (which detune differently than standard 3340 VCOs), the completely distinctive metallic tone of the filters and the ring mod, then that would be truly amazing...
If this is the CS-80, I wouldn't be surprised if they used the Deckard's Dream as framework. Pretty sure the DD uses a CEM3340 VCO and a discrete VCF.
Old 29th January 2021
  #2336
3bc
Gear Addict
 
🎧 10 years
Is it just me or do all these Behringer poly threads (CS80, Jupter 8, UBXA, etc.) feel a lot like Qanon madness. All the quotes in the news from the Qanon folks like "It was all B.S.? How could that be? How could I be fooled for so long? How am I supposed to rebuild all the relationships with friends and family I've disavowed over blindly following Q?"

Like how many more years can everyone just say "oh well maybe just a few more months?"

The UBXA thread was started more than three years ago. If you had saved $2.50 per day during that time frame to save, you could go out and by an OB6 today. If you consider the fact that the UBXA will likely cost maybe 1200-1500 USD, you're talking like $1 day savings above and beyond what you would need to spend on a UBXA to have a synth designed and manufactured in the United States by awesome people who actually came up with the original designs...

To each their own I guess.
Old 29th January 2021
  #2337
DGL
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🎧 5 years
I doubt Behringer will just use a CEM3340 for the DS-80, they'll either just do discrete circuit clones of the CS-80 chips or recreate them themselves, the second option would be great for people who have CS-80's and the like as hopefully they'll finally have a supply of new spares.
Old 29th January 2021 | Show parent
  #2338
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🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by DGL ➡️
I doubt Behringer will just use a CEM3340 for the DS-80, they'll either just do discrete circuit clones of the CS-80 chips or recreate them themselves, the second option would be great for people who have CS-80's and the like as hopefully they'll finally have a supply of new spares.
That´d be the best option of course...
Old 29th January 2021 | Show parent
  #2339
Lives for gear
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3bc ➡️
Is it just me or do all these Behringer poly threads (CS80, Jupter 8, UBXA, etc.) feel a lot like Qanon madness. All the quotes in the news from the Qanon folks like "It was all B.S.? How could that be? How could I be fooled for so long? How am I supposed to rebuild all the relationships with friends and family I've disavowed over blindly following Q?"

Like how many more years can everyone just say "oh well maybe just a few more months?"

The UBXA thread was started more than three years ago. If you had saved $2.50 per day during that time frame to save, you could go out and by an OB6 today. If you consider the fact that the UBXA will likely cost maybe 1200-1500 USD, you're talking like $1 day savings above and beyond what you would need to spend on a UBXA to have a synth designed and manufactured in the United States by awesome people who actually came up with the original designs...

To each their own I guess.
Ehh, this isnt conspiracy theory stuff, Behringer over the past few years has released a number of pretty convincing clones and they have issued several statements and videos regarding their intention for new clones, including polyphonic ones. It’s just that it takes time.
Old 29th January 2021 | Show parent
  #2340
DGL
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by el-folie ➡️
That´d be the best option of course...
We'll have to watch for updates from Coolaudio when the DS-80 get's further in development, no announcement then they haven't recreate the chips.
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