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Behringer Yamaha CS 80 clone (DS 80)
Old 3 weeks ago
  #1141
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
I think they're fine, but yeah I'd love to see more arp buttons (so that it's easier to switch modes on the fly. There's also no arp speed control, which is WEIRD).
I would prefer a configuration like this, with more control over the arpeggiator and things located more like the original.
Attached Thumbnails
Behringer Yamaha CS 80 clone (DS 80)-controls.jpg  
Old 3 weeks ago
  #1142
Gear Head
 

By the way, does anyone know if adding a wooden panel to the back like this would be too expensive? I think it would add a lot visually to get closer to the CS80 charm
Attached Thumbnails
Behringer Yamaha CS 80 clone (DS 80)-ds80.jpg  
Old 3 weeks ago
  #1143
Gear Nut
Quote:
Originally Posted by javipax View Post
I would prefer a configuration like this, with more control over the arpeggiator and things located more like the original.
To my mind, the Sustain mode and Portamento/Glissando controls are more importantly located beside the keyboard, than are the Chorus/Tremolo.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #1144
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spalding View Post
To my mind, the Sustain mode and Portamento/Glissando controls are more importantly located beside the keyboard, than are the Chorus/Tremolo.
Yes, I think the same, but with the wheels there would be no space for them there, with the sliders and the buttons it ends up being too crammed (with the combinations I tried, maybe someone can find a place for them there) And I would find it weird to have the sliders in one place and the buttons somewhere else. At least this way there's some of the old controls there.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #1145
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spalding View Post
I think this latest addition of the pitch and mod wheels is ruining the overall design for the sake of something not needed. All the main 2 synth panel lines crammed into a smaller area and the other left of keyboard controls moved up to the top, just for the sake of two irrelevant wheels?

I really hope Behringer doesn't go with this idea.

People want CS80 but don't have one because they can't generally afford it, not because they suddenly realise it has no wheels
This!

I think every deviation from the original control layout is ruining the CS-80 experience. But we don´t know yet what Behringer have in mind. I really think though they are still just collecting feature ideas and throwing out these intermediate drafts, so hopefully nothing is set in stone yet.

Maybe they´ll do the first draft version for the purists and an all bells n whistles machine with wheels and whatnot.

A seperate poly AT MIDI controller keyboard with wheels would make sense, but on a CS-80 clone they really do look funny.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #1146
Lives for gear
 
Moonwhistle's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
There are certain things you cannot do with poly AT or the ribbon that you can do with the pitch wheel (for example, try doing Jens Johannsson or Derek Sherinian type solos with those - you will fail). Besides, it's an extra modulator, so why the hell not.

Pitch knob with center detent for pitch bends - laughable by comparison.
I know they'd never do it but:



If you could screw one of those into the left hand side of the synth...

Welcome back panel real estate and hello to the most expressive pitch bending device known to man.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #1147
Lives for gear
 
Somebodyperson's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spalding View Post
I think this latest addition of the pitch and mod wheels is ruining the overall design for the sake of something not needed. All the main 2 synth panel lines crammed into a smaller area and the other left of keyboard controls moved up to the top, just for the sake of two irrelevant wheels?

I really hope Behringer doesn't go with this idea.

People want CS80 but don't have one because they can't generally afford it, not because they suddenly realise it has no wheels
I agree. I have plenty of synths with the wheels. Unless you can add them and keep the original method, I will pass. I would like to have something with a different flow to it, then again....for those who will use this as a poly AT master keyboard may want the wheels. I guess it does not matter to me since I already have a keyboard with mod and pitch wheels that has poly AT.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #1148
Gear Nut
Quote:
Originally Posted by javipax View Post
I would prefer a configuration like this, with more control over the arpeggiator and things located more like the original.
Another thought, I would dearly love to see all the original preset buttons in place (perhaps not all 4 original white memory buttons- patch memory taken into account)

And on this subject of original presets, I think the original preset resistor matrix would not make so much sense, surely these presets would be in memory but also then allow for adjustment of both main synth panel sliders for further tweaking to your own satisfaction.
CS80 only allowed for adjustment of performance controls when using the presets.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #1149
Gear Nut
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonwhistle View Post
I know they'd never do it but:



If you could screw one of those into the left hand side of the synth...

Welcome back panel real estate and hello to the most expressive pitch bending device known to man.
That's funny. Almost similar to the 'knee lever' which you will find under the lower manual of your GX1 or other high end Electones. Though they were sustain oriented.
Really I feel that if anyone had implemented such a thing, it would have been Yamaha
Old 3 weeks ago
  #1150
Lives for gear
 
payt's Avatar
 

Well it looks like we'll never all agree on 1 design. Maybe Behringer should just go ahead and do whatever they had in mind in the first place.. lol
Old 3 weeks ago
  #1151
Gear Nut
Quote:
Originally Posted by javipax View Post
By the way, does anyone know if adding a wooden panel to the back like this would be too expensive? I think it would add a lot visually to get closer to the CS80 charm
I don't think it would cost too much, surely it would be plywood with something like a walnut veneer? Would also be a good compromise for my much wanted extra depth of panel. That is also an aesthetic boon.
I think the carry handle is not needed however. Or if it were, the front is better for weight distribution I think.

Keep up the good work
Old 3 weeks ago
  #1152
Lives for gear
 
Moonwhistle's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spalding View Post
That's funny. Almost similar to the 'knee lever' which you will find under the lower manual of your GX1 or other high end Electones. Though they were sustain oriented.
Really I feel that if anyone had implemented such a thing, it would have been Yamaha
Yeah, I have it on the E70 at my parents place. I forget it's there usually.

The Clavinet has the Castle Bar for pitch bend which is a similar concept. I'm semi trolling with the idea but it could bring some new expression to an already expressive instrument.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #1153
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonwhistle View Post
I know they'd never do it but:


I prefer a shorter one, a la Gilmour
Old 3 weeks ago
  #1154
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
Yeah headphones should be 1/4" and front left of the synth below the keybed.

This @ Uli Behringer

Old 3 weeks ago
  #1155
Gear Nut
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonwhistle View Post
Yeah, I have it on the E70 at my parents place. I forget it's there usually.

The Clavinet has the Castle Bar for pitch bend which is a similar concept. I'm semi trolling with the idea but it could bring some new expression to an already expressive instrument.
I know, but I found it funny. I have E75 which has it too. Honestly would have preferred a sustain pedal, but I like where they were coming from.

Speaking of, I always found the way they implemented the sustain pedal into CS80 as one of the many great things about it. No one ever seems to make note of it, but I always wished others would have done the same thing.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #1156
Gear Nut
I think Behringer should offer two variants of this DS80, one with CS80 style weighted keybed, and another with regular synth keys. I presume most buyers would prefer synth keys, but some for sure will not.
I could well imagine buying one of each to cover even more ground.

That CS80 keyboard feels really nice, but so does CS50/60. Good for different things
Old 3 weeks ago
  #1157
Gear Nut
Quote:
Originally Posted by javipax View Post
Yes, I think the same, but with the wheels there would be no space for them there, with the sliders and the buttons it ends up being too crammed (with the combinations I tried, maybe someone can find a place for them there) And I would find it weird to have the sliders in one place and the buttons somewhere else. At least this way there's some of the old controls there.
I like your arp controls etc layout, If you could just do away with those silly wheels and move the sutain/porta/gliss controls back home you would have it.

I don't mean to harp on or dismiss people's opinions but I feel very strongly that the only changes to the controls should happen in the upper left corner of the main panel.
There really is enough room up there to implement memory and the arpeggio/sequencer stuff.

Everyone wins this way. The purists have their sacred layout, and everyone else gets the extras they need. Except for the wheels.

**** the wheels
Old 3 weeks ago
  #1158
Here for the gear
Happy to see pitch and mod wheels. The overall design still looks a little clunky imo.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #1159
Gear Nut
Fact is you have separate modulation levers (which are effectively like mod wheels) for VCO VCF VCA in the SUB OSCILLATOR section.

As for the pitch wheel, the excellence of the slide controller really makes such an addition pointless.
wherever you touch first, is the 'zero point'.
From there it is 1 octave up, and all the way down to sub audio frequency range. Massive downward pitch bends.

What wheel can do this?
Old 3 weeks ago
  #1160
Gear Nut
Quote:
Originally Posted by Somebodyperson View Post
I agree. I have plenty of synths with the wheels. Unless you can add them and keep the original method, I will pass. I would like to have something with a different flow to it, then again....for those who will use this as a poly AT master keyboard may want the wheels. I guess it does not matter to me since I already have a keyboard with mod and pitch wheels that has poly AT.
Surely it makes financial sense for Behringer to release a dedicated poly AT keyboard for those only seeking something to use as master keyboard.

Otherwise that is a whole lot of controls which would be potentially going to waste for such a group of users.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #1161
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by javipax View Post
By the way, does anyone know if adding a wooden panel to the back like this would be too expensive? I think it would add a lot visually to get closer to the CS80 charm
It would add cost and putting a carrying handle on the back like that looks horrible and makes no sense really.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #1162
Lives for gear
 
matt pinchin's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by javipax View Post
By the way, does anyone know if adding a wooden panel to the back like this would be too expensive? I think it would add a lot visually to get closer to the CS80 charm
Liking this design a lot. Now if you could compress the top left section, as everything seems spaced out there, then the main sliders could be spaced out a little more.
Main synth controls look too cramped compared to the arp and glide/gliss section
Old 3 weeks ago
  #1163
Lives for gear
 
EvilDragon's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spalding View Post
As for the pitch wheel, the excellence of the slide controller really makes such an addition pointless.
wherever you touch first, is the 'zero point'.
From there it is 1 octave up, and all the way down to sub audio frequency range. Massive downward pitch bends.

What wheel can do this?
Again. There are things that ribbon cannot do as precisely as a wheel. Like when playing very fast solos with bluesy bends where you really need to have control, and the pitch bend wheel's spring is giving you resistance so that you can shape the bend properly. Ribbon gives you no resistance at all.

Try doing bends and vibratos like these on ribbon+poly AT at those speeds and lemme know how hard you fail:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9j9usbFbtxg&t=273s

Quote:
Originally Posted by ryankraft View Post
It would add cost and putting a carrying handle on the back like that looks horrible and makes no sense really.
Agreed. Back panel wood and handle looks quite crappy.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #1164
Gear Nut
Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
Again. There are things that ribbon cannot do as precisely as a wheel. Like when playing very fast solos with bluesy bends where you really need to have control, and the pitch bend wheel's spring is giving you resistance so that you can shape the bend properly. Ribbon gives you no resistance at all.
So do that on ANY other synth.

Very fast solos on CS80, probably not the core design concept
Old 3 weeks ago
  #1165
Lives for gear
 
EvilDragon's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spalding View Post
So do that on ANY other synth.
Why should I? Is there some sort of GS police that forbids playing anything other than Vangelis on CS-80?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spalding View Post
Very fast solos on CS80, probably not the core design concept
That's funny. So now "core design concept" of a synth is the sole factor in deciding what should be played on any particular synth? Ridiculous.

If CS-80 is a "performer's synth" (like most of them are, really), then I tell it what it needs to play. Not the other way around.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #1166
Gear Nut
Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
Why should I? Is there some sort of GS police that forbids playing anything other than Vangelis on CS-80?



That's funny. So now "core design concept" of a synth is the sole factor in deciding what should be played on any particular synth? Ridiculous.

If CS-80 is a "performer's synth" (like most of them are, really), then I tell it what it needs to play. Not the other way around.
I don't know about that exactly. You tell me, it seems you are the GS police here.

I just want to see an instrument that really pays tribute to the original in the way it looks, sounds, and plays. Not every instrument can be made to excel in all areas. Otherwise we would all need just one keyboard, surely.

Vangelis has nothing to do with this. Please let's not drag him into it.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #1167
Lives for gear
 
Somebodyperson's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post

Agreed. Back panel wood and handle looks quite crappy.
There's no accounting for taste.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #1168
Lives for gear
 
EvilDragon's Avatar
It's just that your comment was dismissive to the point of telling me I shouldn't play something on a particular synth, and trying to justify that with a pretty lame "not the core design concept" argument (which really isn't an argument). All quite ridiculous.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #1169
Gear Nut
Yeah, some folks say the CS80 is the ugliest thing ever created. I think it looks wonderful
Old 3 weeks ago
  #1170
Gear Nut
Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
It's just that your comment was dismissive to the point of telling me I shouldn't play something on a particular synth, and trying to justify that with a pretty lame "not the core design concept" argument (which really isn't an argument). All quite ridiculous.
No, I just mean to say that they all have a particular range of abilities, and there's no real reason to expect things from them which was never in their remit.
You can do whatever you like on your instruments, and nobody should say otherwise.
But you can't do everything on all instruments which isn't a bad thing
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