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Behringer's K-20 (MS-20 clone) surfacing Keyboard Synthesizers
Old 4 weeks ago
  #121
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Jamie munro's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by kcearl View Post
Mine is faultless too, other than that silver bit falling off...I never said it was faulty, i said it has a poorly built, it is.
I never said you said anything and here I am saying I never said it again
Old 4 weeks ago
  #122
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Originally Posted by Jamie munro View Post
I never said you said anything and here I am saying I never said it again
I dont even know who you are talking too, I am not here, this is a hologram of Prince dancing with Tupac.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by donato View Post
Where's my ****ing Solina and VCS3?
This!

Old 4 weeks ago
  #124
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtFluids View Post
They're making the Arturia V Collection of hardware.
Actually a hardware synth with all the Arturia V collection worth would be a much welcomed addition

I think it's about time for a Behringer workstation

Old 4 weeks ago
  #125
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by CthonicEwes View Post
Actually, that dude from Echofix in Australia announced that he is producing brand new Space Echoes! Not at Behringer prices, though.
VERY underwhelmed by this video presentation



As the dude on the comments says, you can do that with any digital delay pedal, and save A LOT of $$$$

At least they should've picked up the Chords of Orion guy, who does know how to play ambient guitar
Old 4 weeks ago
  #126
Gear Nut
I have a mini, but I'd gladly replace it with a K-20 if the mk1 filter has the noise level of the original mk1. At first I thought I could deal with it, but it does rule out a lot of unique sounds that the orig mk1 can do.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #127
Gear Nut
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonwhistle View Post
I find the old ones a bit better for external signal processing.
I've actually started using The Drop more and more for external processing. With the mini you have to drive the input pretty hard to get above the noise, and that limits you to really aggressive processing. Which I love, don't get me wrong. But you can do more subtle yet still edgy mk1 filter processing with an original MS or The Drop.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #128
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ArtFluids's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by ponkine View Post
Actually a hardware synth with all the Arturia V collection worth would be a much welcomed addition

I think it's about time for a Behringer workstation

I do think it would be cool if Behringer made something like the Elektron Analog Four. But imagine if they had voice cards you could swap out. You could have like 4 Model D cards or 2 Model D and 2 Pro-1 or whatever configuration you want.
Maybe it could even support more like 8 voices and they can be whatever you like.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #129
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atma's Avatar
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Originally Posted by dublave View Post
I know a lot of folks aren't necessarily excited about this one. But c'mon... the fact that I can soon have a Minimoog, MS20, Pro One, SH101, etc. etc. etc. on my desktop in small form factor, relatively well built and all for 300 bucks a pop? That's insane! That's a serious gift from the synth gods. Of course if you already have these machines it's not going to be as exciting. I don't. This is putting them in my budget and that's pretty amazing.

There are plenty of other companies out there for innovation. The fact that this one has decided to make affordable versions of some of the all time most classic synths is more than cool with me. That's innovation in its own right. There are certainly ethical arguments to be made here, and those are all valid. But like... these are many of the synths I've only been able to borrow or play with in studios and have wanted to own for like 15-20 years now. That I finally can is pretty great. I'm stoked. Bring em on I say. I recognize myself as totally the market for them.
Absolutely—it is totally insane—it's also what a lot of people have been wanting for as long as the analog resurgence has hiked prices up to astronomical values. Back in the very early 00's, I bought a Juno 106 for $400, a Sequential Circuits Prophet 3000 for $500, and an Arp Odyssey for $600. Nowadays you can't find anything like that for anywhere under a grand; it's become completely absurd. All people have wanted for years and years, are accurate reproductions with some modern flourishes, and that's exactly what Behringer has been delivering.

My only real qualm is that everyone and their mother will now have these exact same synths, and it will ultimately detract from their uniqueness as music begins to be saturated by these specific synths/sounds.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #130
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Rob Ocelot's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by CthonicEwes View Post
Actually, that dude from Echofix in Australia announced that he is producing brand new Space Echoes! Not at Behringer prices, though.
Not even at crazy Space Echo prices!

When the clone clocks in at 1.5-2x the price of a pristine good working example of the original I think you might have to be pulled behind the woodshed for a serious 'talking to'.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #131
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Rob Ocelot's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by atma View Post
My only real qualm is that everyone and their mother will now have these exact same synths, and it will ultimately detract from their uniqueness as music begins to be saturated by these specific synths/sounds.
Not only that but there's more musicians (bedroom, semi-pro, and pro) now then there ever has been. More people making more bad youtube videos of them opening the box and/or playing chipsticks with the presets. More instances of some plonker doing his soulless cover of Oxygene IV or Axel-F at the local brick and mortar.

I have a feeling that when Behr finally releases their Jupiter-8 clone there will be a preorder/buying frenzy and collectively everyone will suddenly realize we are all in a huge "...than what?" situation where the once-unique has been forever de-uniqued. We'll just move onto the next rare and coveted synth and start the process all over again.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #132
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Zero Crossing's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by atma View Post
Absolutely—it is totally insane—it's also what a lot of people have been wanting for as long as the analog resurgence has hiked prices up to astronomical values. Back in the very early 00's, I bought a Juno 106 for $400, a Sequential Circuits Prophet 3000 for $500, and an Arp Odyssey for $600. Nowadays you can't find anything like that for anywhere under a grand; it's become completely absurd. All people have wanted for years and years, are accurate reproductions with some modern flourishes, and that's exactly what Behringer has been delivering.
100% this. I've owned the originals of every synth Behringer is cloning in decades past (and 90% of everything else!!!). Current prices are beyond stupid. It's reached a ridiculous level when super basic monos like a SH-101 are selling for $1300. I get the arguments against what Behringer is doing, but it's not like there's a shortage of new synths coming out. There's never been as many synths as there is now. The choices are incredible.

Thumbsup to Behringer
And this coming from a former Behringer hater (mostly due to their cheap mixers and outboard)
Old 4 weeks ago
  #133
Quote:
Originally Posted by atma View Post
My only real qualm is that everyone and their mother will now have these exact same synths, and it will ultimately detract from their uniqueness as music begins to be saturated by these specific synths/sounds.
High time for music itself to make the difference
Old 4 weeks ago
  #134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atma View Post

My only real qualm is that everyone and their mother will now have these exact same synths, and it will ultimately detract from their uniqueness as music begins to be saturated by these specific synths/sounds.
This already happened 35 years ago. Yet still some folks want reissues from this

Old 4 weeks ago
  #135
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I dig it. I wish their Odyssey, 101, and Vocoder were released in that 3U form factor, too.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atma View Post
Back in the very early 00's, I bought a Juno 106 for $400, a Sequential Circuits Prophet 3000 for $500, and an Arp Odyssey for $600. Nowadays you can't find anything like that for anywhere under a grand; it's become completely absurd.
Similar situation! I bought a few coveted analogs in the early 00s, but I was the idiot who let them go and then couldn’t re-buy them after the absurd inflation happened by the time I realized how dumb I was for selling them in the first place. This is finally my long awaited second chance!

Quote:
Originally Posted by atma View Post
My only real qualm is that everyone and their mother will now have these exact same synths, and it will ultimately detract from their uniqueness as music begins to be saturated by these specific synths/sounds.
To me that’s the fun challenge. What appeals to me the most about analog synths is the raw nature of their sounds. Then it’s up to me to take that raw sound and do something interesting/unique/unfamiliar with it. Personally I’ve never really been drawn to a particular synth just to use the handful of generic sounds it’s known for. It’s more fun to me to use them “wrong” and then figure out how to make that right!
Old 4 weeks ago
  #137
Here for the gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by atma View Post
Absolutely—it is totally insane—it's also what a lot of people have been wanting for as long as the analog resurgence has hiked prices up to astronomical values. Back in the very early 00's, I bought a Juno 106 for $400, a Sequential Circuits Prophet 3000 for $500, and an Arp Odyssey for $600. Nowadays you can't find anything like that for anywhere under a grand; it's become completely absurd. All people have wanted for years and years, are accurate reproductions with some modern flourishes, and that's exactly what Behringer has been delivering.

My only real qualm is that everyone and their mother will now have these exact same synths, and it will ultimately detract from their uniqueness as music begins to be saturated by these specific synths/sounds.
Back in the very early '00s is nearly 2 decades ago. At general 3% inflation rates, prices double every 20 years anyway so your $400 Juno 106 back then is the same as an $800 106 today, only with 20 years more wear & time for chips to fail. Your "cheap" 106 isn't as cheap as you think.

Last edited by mkdvb; 4 weeks ago at 03:57 AM.. Reason: Cuz
Old 4 weeks ago
  #138
Quote:
Originally Posted by dublave View Post
To me that’s the fun challenge. What appeals to me the most about analog synths is the raw nature of their sounds. Then it’s up to me to take that raw sound and do something interesting/unique/unfamiliar with it. Personally I’ve never really been drawn to a particular synth just to use the handful of generic sounds it’s known for. It’s more fun to me to use them “wrong” and then figure out how to make that right!
I really feel like the outlier here on GS and in doing electronic music in general because I don't care much about the sounds! Sure I like cool sounds but I feel like most everyone else is just so concerned with them. I just want to make music I like. I happen to play the keyboard. These electronic sounds are the ones available to me that aren't trying to sell a fake trumpet or piano as a real one.

Don't get me wrong electronic sounds are cool, but the song is 95% for me. I have 2 behringer Ds, 2 Neutrons, 2 minilogues, a Minibrute and ms20 mini; same sh-t as everyone else. I have a feeling my music sounds different but not because I spend tons of time making sounds.

Maybe I take it back. I don't think think minimoogs (or D's) make that wild or crazy of sounds. Just simple ones. Ppl gotta be using them thinking about the music first. A single note of MM just won't wow anybody these days like when they were new. I'm not afraid of too many people having whatever synth I have ruining my uniqueness. I don't think interesting sounds are even unique at all. Putting them together or using them in neat ways is, and I'm not trying to knock those ppl. Do look back though and try and remember a famous sound without the great note pattern it's attached to. Ok maybe that synclav sound in the beginning of "Beat it" but would you even know about that sound without the song that follows?

Last edited by StarfishMusic; 4 weeks ago at 04:17 AM..
Old 4 weeks ago
  #139
Quote:
Originally Posted by atma View Post

My only real qualm is that everyone and their mother will now have these exact same synths, and it will ultimately detract from their uniqueness as music begins to be saturated by these specific synths/sounds.

The sounds were already there, either in vsts and/or samples...only difference is folks will have hardware versions. I doubt itll make any difference in that sense.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #140
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by atma View Post
My only real qualm is that everyone and their mother will now have these exact same synths, and it will ultimately detract from their uniqueness as music begins to be saturated by these specific synths/sounds.
Oh please.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #141
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donato's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by mkdvb View Post
Back in the very early '00s is nearly 2 decades ago. At general 3% inflation rates, prices double every 20 years anyway so your $400 Juno 106 back then is the same as an $800 106 today, only with 20 years more wear & time for chips to fail. Your "cheap" 106 isn't as cheap as you think.
Not exactly. So, let's use 1999 as an example compared to today. Average inflation was 2.14% per year. So $400 in 1999 would be $610.33 today. Still, you have a good point.

$400 in 1999 → 2019 | Inflation Calculator
Old 4 weeks ago
  #142
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ArtFluids's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by atma View Post
My only real qualm is that everyone and their mother will now have these exact same synths, and it will ultimately detract from their uniqueness as music begins to be saturated by these specific synths/sounds.








Old 4 weeks ago
  #143
Gear Nut
 
toitoy's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by atma View Post

My only real qualm is that everyone and their mother will now have these exact same synths, and it will ultimately detract from their uniqueness as music begins to be saturated by these specific synths/sounds.
The thing is that every true analog synth is unique
The more they get old they get more uniqueness

Speaking of Behringer I think it would be wise to make a MS-50 not MS-20
Old 4 weeks ago
  #144
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Moonwhistle's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by ponkine View Post
This already happened 35 years ago. Yet still some folks want reissues from this

It's a great synth to play.

I don't see why synths have to be unique either, that part is up to the user.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #145
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pppch's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonwhistle View Post
It's a great synth to play.

I don't see why synths have to be unique either, that part is up to the user.
why not.. unique is different
this is the current wood one, with the typical key click


Old 4 weeks ago
  #146
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Moonwhistle's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by pppch View Post
why not.. unique is different
this is the current wood one, with the typical key click


Old 4 weeks ago
  #147
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mallery7 View Post
Not that I care too much in the big scheme of things, but I'm not sure why people in the synth world make such a big deal about a particular item being so unique. In other products and markets there are many similar models from other manufacturers that have similar features and they all try to outdo each other.
Making a big deal about the Chinese penchant for blatantly copying existing products is not particular to the synth world. They do it with fashion, watches, and a whole host of products, often to the degree of outright counterfeiting. There are now quite a few Chinese companies selling cheap (and usually inferior) knock-offs of products from other more innovative Chinese manufacturers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mallery7 View Post
So what if Korg makes an Odyssey and other companies want to make a similar version? It's the market and free enterprise. If more companies want to make an Odyssey more power to them.
Free enterprise is other companies making competing but different products, e.g. Arp, Roland etc. offering a completely different take on the market for integrated synthesizers that the Minimoog had established.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mallery7 View Post
Dave Smith put out the Prophet 5, then Oberheim came out with a synth (OBX) that had similar features. Should we have been mad at Oberheim that?
Oberheim were the pioneers of voice assign polyphonic analogue synthesizers and electronic memory storage of parameters, because their Oberheim 4 voice and 8 voice had both in 1975, whereas the Prophet 5 didn't appear until 1978. It's also ludicrous to claim that there is any equivalence between the Prophet 5 and OB-XA, which look and sound nothing like each other and are completely different internally, and a blatant clone of an existing product with the same control layout, same electronics, and same enhancements over the (now ancient) originals.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #148
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Weedlekin View Post
Free enterprise is other companies making competing but different products, e.g. Arp, Roland etc. offering a completely different take on the market for integrated synthesizers that the Minimoog had established.
By adding a sequencer and a modern FX section Behringer's take on the market for Odyssey descendants is very different from Korg's, isn't it? (I would have prefered a different name for it, though. Not because of the original ARP Odyssey but because of Korg's clone.)

Behringer's take on the market for desktop/eurorack MS-20-like synths will probably be rather different from Korg's: The K-20 will be available while the M-20M will probably not. But I would actually love to see both, the K-20 and the M-20M available at the same time. I'm pretty sure Korg can build it at competetive prices and *then* we would have a competition.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #149
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ponkine
This already happened 35 years ago. Yet still some folks want reissues from this

[A BIG DX7 PICTURE]
Many people used a similar range of sounds from the DX7 at a certain period of time in the history, that's a fact.

It has nothing to do with another fact that this synth is capable of sounds that are totally out there and unheard before. It is also affordable while being a non-miniaturised fully featured, 16-voice polysynth that is built like a tank and exceptionally reliable.

To make a reissue of it like the original is nearly impossible today. A three-voice poly Volca FM always makes me laugh at the current state of things when it comes to reissuing old and successful ideas from the past.

*** A purely personal perception of Behringer reissues and a bit of critical thinking ***

As for the Behringer clones - I don't feel any of them. The Model D sounds good but is nowhere near the same experience as playing a Moog and it doesn't sound exactly like it on every sound.

The Vocoder sounds great but again, it's missing the keyboard range of the original. Three octaves on a polyphonic instrument is a slap in the face of any keyboard player.

The MS, Pro-1 and Odyssey don't even sound like the originals to me. With their own sound, there are more interesting alternatives in this price bracket new and used.

There are too many buts for everything they release, including the questionable strategy to copy designs from the existing reissues by other companies. I am not getting fooled that for £300 - 500, I'm getting a total replica of the sound, design and experience of playing a vintage synth. It's an unspoken lie. It's not even exciting from the synth evolution point of view.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #150
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ArtFluids's Avatar
I really don't understand the logic of cheaper and more ubiquitous synths being a bad thing. There's always been synths in the low price range dominating the market, only now they're actually analog and based on tried and true classics. Now instead of everyone and their mother having a virtual analog they have a real analog. And somehow that's supposed to make music worse or less unique? Yet everything was just fine when it was the Microkorg that everyone and their mother had?
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